WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:05.480 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:09.640 This is episode 104, recorded November 15th, 2018. 00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:10.560 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:11.440 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:12.240 Hey, Brian. How you doing? 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:13.240 I am great. 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:14.900 Yeah, it's a wonderful day, isn't it? 00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:15.980 Yeah, it is. 00:00:15.980 --> 00:00:19.540 And I'm doing one of my favorite things, talking to you on a podcast. 00:00:19.540 --> 00:00:21.840 Yeah, same here. You're all about podcasting today. 00:00:21.840 --> 00:00:24.600 It's like you just block the whole calendar day. 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:26.060 It's just all podcasting all day. 00:00:26.060 --> 00:00:27.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:28.180 Right on. 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:31.420 Well, I'm sure your other episodes on Test Code will come out good as well. 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:35.120 But before we get to our episode, let's just say thanks to DigitalOcean. 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:39.920 They support the podcast massively, and we're very thankful for that. 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.140 Check them out at pythonbytes.fm/DigitalOcean. 00:00:42.140 --> 00:00:46.580 Get $100 credit for free for new users to use towards your virtual machines and whatnot. 00:00:46.580 --> 00:00:48.220 Tell you more about that later. 00:00:48.220 --> 00:00:55.920 Brian, I would normally ask you what your first assignment is or make some not very great transition into it 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.900 about coyotes or something. 00:00:58.260 --> 00:01:00.000 But we're not going to go down the coyote route. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.740 Yeah, we have some exciting news. 00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:02.340 Yeah, we do. 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:06.200 So there's two things I would like to tell you about the podcast. 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.540 One is new and awesome, and one has just been around, but we haven't really bothered to talk 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:11.600 about it, and I don't know why. 00:01:11.600 --> 00:01:12.900 So let's talk about it real quick. 00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:19.000 First of all, we talk about six items and maybe a few extras more or less each week, right, Brian? 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:19.360 Yeah. 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.020 Our episodes are 25 minutes. 00:01:21.020 --> 00:01:26.920 Wouldn't it be nice if you were interested in, say, the third thing to be able to just click on the third thing 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:30.140 and hear just that if you wanted to jump back as a refresher or whatever? 00:01:30.140 --> 00:01:34.900 Yeah, like you said, if you heard it before and you're like, what did they say about Wiley? 00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:36.620 And you could go back and listen to that. 00:01:36.620 --> 00:01:37.300 Exactly. 00:01:37.300 --> 00:01:38.560 And we do have transcripts. 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.060 We've always had transcripts, and that's great. 00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:45.580 But now the podcast MP3 comes with chapters in each episode. 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:51.560 So if I open up, say, Overcast on my iPhone, and I flip over, I think I flipped to the right two times 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.800 or something funky like that, I see every topic that we cover now, and you can click on any of them. 00:01:56.800 --> 00:01:58.620 It tells you how much time we spend on each one. 00:01:58.620 --> 00:01:59.240 You can click on it. 00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:01.180 You can get a little independent progress bar. 00:02:01.180 --> 00:02:01.660 It's beautiful. 00:02:01.660 --> 00:02:02.760 Yeah, it's nice. 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:04.340 It also works in Apple Podcasts. 00:02:04.340 --> 00:02:05.160 You've got to swipe up. 00:02:05.160 --> 00:02:09.100 And all the other podcast players, I don't know, but they support the most of them. 00:02:09.100 --> 00:02:11.100 Which one do you listen with, Brian? 00:02:11.100 --> 00:02:12.400 What do I listen to? 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:13.040 Overcast. 00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:13.660 Pocket Cast for a while. 00:02:13.660 --> 00:02:14.400 Yeah, Overcast. 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:15.600 I like Overcast. 00:02:15.720 --> 00:02:18.700 It's not perfect, but it's better than the others, in my opinion, at least for iOS. 00:02:18.700 --> 00:02:21.540 Yeah, I like a lot of the features of it. 00:02:21.540 --> 00:02:22.280 I do, too. 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:23.360 So chapters. 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.900 Chapters are awesome, and they are now in there. 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:31.660 And also, if you go to the episode page, I've updated the website for roughly the same capability. 00:02:31.660 --> 00:02:36.880 So there's a little play icon next to each chapter or each thing that we talk about. 00:02:36.880 --> 00:02:40.700 And this only works for episode 103 and forward. 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:42.360 This doesn't work going way back in the past. 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:44.700 But everything going forward, assuming we keep this up, 00:02:44.740 --> 00:02:48.260 is a lot of work to do the chapters and figure out the times and put in all the pieces. 00:02:48.260 --> 00:02:50.520 But hopefully people like it. 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.160 And, you know, as long as we're doing it, I'll put it on the website. 00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:54.360 And you can click there as well. 00:02:54.360 --> 00:03:00.460 And one of the things I like about the website is if, like, I'm looking at a, you know, in the future, I'm looking back at an old episode. 00:03:00.980 --> 00:03:05.140 Yeah, I can listen to it without downloading the whole thing onto my iPhone or something. 00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:10.340 Yeah, and I think people also don't understand how much we use our own site as reference. 00:03:10.340 --> 00:03:11.380 Yeah. 00:03:11.380 --> 00:03:13.140 Like, did we talk about it? 00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:14.120 All right, throw it in the search engine. 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:15.600 No, it's not there. 00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:16.600 So we probably didn't talk about it. 00:03:16.600 --> 00:03:17.580 Let me look at this other thing. 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:18.860 Yeah, like, it's good for us. 00:03:18.860 --> 00:03:20.200 And other people can use it too, right? 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.800 Yeah, I mean, we have over 100 episodes, six topics. 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:25.600 We've covered over 600 things. 00:03:25.600 --> 00:03:27.220 So, yeah, it's hard to keep track. 00:03:27.220 --> 00:03:27.860 Sometimes multiple. 00:03:27.860 --> 00:03:29.160 Yeah, there's a ton of stuff in there. 00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:31.800 And it's good to go back and find the links and comments we put. 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.820 So chapters, hopefully people enjoy them. 00:03:34.820 --> 00:03:37.940 Be sure to take advantage of them in your podcast player, especially for reference. 00:03:37.940 --> 00:03:40.400 And the other one is we have friends. 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:41.620 It's great deaf friends, isn't it? 00:03:41.620 --> 00:03:43.020 Yes, friends of the show. 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:46.440 We have friends of the show in the sense of people who send us stuff. 00:03:46.440 --> 00:03:47.460 And we love that. 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:50.680 We also have the ability to send out notifications for everyone that cares. 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:56.220 So if you visit pythonbytes.fm/friends dash of dash the dash show, 00:03:56.220 --> 00:03:58.740 or just pythonbytes.fm and click on it in the banner, 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:01.780 then put in your email address and you'll get notifications. 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:04.980 I'm going to try to start sending out more interesting stuff more frequently. 00:04:04.980 --> 00:04:06.100 You can check that out. 00:04:06.100 --> 00:04:09.100 But if you're not signed up there, you probably won't get it. 00:04:09.100 --> 00:04:10.400 So be sure to do that. 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.640 You can even open up, say, Overcast, go to the show notes, click the title, 00:04:13.640 --> 00:04:16.720 and even become a friend of the show right from your podcast player. 00:04:16.900 --> 00:04:18.940 I think that's probably the most appropriate way to do it. 00:04:18.940 --> 00:04:22.820 So are we going to collect all these email addresses and then sell them to some list? 00:04:22.820 --> 00:04:24.940 Yeah, I think we're going to be so rich. 00:04:24.940 --> 00:04:26.740 We could probably sell them for two cents an email. 00:04:26.740 --> 00:04:29.380 No, we're not going to share those, of course. 00:04:29.380 --> 00:04:30.380 No, we hate spam. 00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:31.600 We won't do that either, of course. 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:32.060 All right. 00:04:32.060 --> 00:04:34.360 Now it's time for the Wile E. Coyote. 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:35.960 Yes, the Wile E. Coyote. 00:04:35.960 --> 00:04:37.580 And more friends. 00:04:37.580 --> 00:04:37.980 Right. 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:42.140 So Anthony Shaw, we've talked about it. 00:04:42.140 --> 00:04:42.940 He's been on the show. 00:04:42.940 --> 00:04:45.560 He's been on both of our podcasts also. 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:52.960 And he joked recently that he's going to, at PyCon 2019, he might put friend of the show 00:04:52.960 --> 00:04:55.220 as his name on his badge. 00:04:55.220 --> 00:04:56.360 Nice. 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:01.600 So then one of the things that Ant or friend of the show or Anthony has been working on 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:03.100 is a project called Wile E. 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:09.520 And it is a Python application for tracking, reporting on timing, and complexity of the tests 00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:10.480 of your application. 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:17.720 So it's sort of like we have some complexity checks for your application or for your module, 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:20.160 but this is a complexity of your tests. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:21.980 And it's kind of an interesting project. 00:05:21.980 --> 00:05:25.320 But I'm not going to actually talk about the testing part of it. 00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:30.080 Why I brought it up is he's done something that I'm not going to say he's the first, 00:05:30.080 --> 00:05:32.180 because it's possible that somebody else has done. 00:05:32.180 --> 00:05:33.760 But it's the first that I've heard of. 00:05:33.760 --> 00:05:38.880 Somebody that's done this new pyproject.toml style packaging. 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:41.160 So there's no setup.py. 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:43.180 It is pip installable. 00:05:43.180 --> 00:05:46.460 And there's a lot of extra goodies that you can do with that. 00:05:46.460 --> 00:05:51.600 And he's figured out all of the weird things that you have to figure out to make this all 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:51.960 work. 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:55.140 So he's got like hooked up to read the docs. 00:05:55.140 --> 00:05:56.780 So the read the docs is generated. 00:05:56.780 --> 00:06:01.820 It's a restructured text-based documentation that gets pushed to read the docs. 00:06:01.820 --> 00:06:05.540 He's got it working on the talks is set up. 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:07.520 So there's talks configuration in there. 00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:10.260 There's a black configuration within the project. 00:06:10.260 --> 00:06:12.540 There's all the things you'd expect. 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:15.240 Plus, he's got pre-commit hooks set up. 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.220 And this isn't really part of the pyproject part. 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:22.280 But there is a pre-commit hook for an example. 00:06:22.280 --> 00:06:24.720 And also, how to use... 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:30.160 If you're writing a tool that you want somebody else to be able to do pre-commit with, there's 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:31.240 an example hook there. 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:33.860 It's kind of a lot of goodies and it's not very much code. 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:35.240 So I like it as an example. 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:35.560 Yeah. 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:36.640 Nice work, Anthony. 00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:37.960 That's really cool. 00:06:37.960 --> 00:06:39.920 I like the use of PyProject. 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:41.500 Do you know if he's using poetry? 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:42.720 He's using Flit. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:43.180 Flit. 00:06:43.180 --> 00:06:43.720 Okay. 00:06:44.060 --> 00:06:44.240 Right. 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:50.880 So Flit is another one of the ones like poetry or pipfemf, but one of the ones that understands 00:06:50.880 --> 00:06:51.960 pyproject.toml. 00:06:51.960 --> 00:06:56.920 And if you're curious to learn more about pyproject.toml, we talked about it in Python Bytes 100. 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:01.300 And then I also talked about it with Brett Cannon on testing code 52. 00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:01.700 Nice. 00:07:01.700 --> 00:07:01.960 Yeah. 00:07:01.960 --> 00:07:02.820 That's a really good example. 00:07:02.820 --> 00:07:05.840 Leave it to Anthony to be on the cutting edge of packaging. 00:07:05.840 --> 00:07:11.620 The other thing, it's a small package, but one of the things I like is his contributing 00:07:11.620 --> 00:07:14.720 guide includes the code of conduct right in there. 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:18.760 And I think that's, instead of having it as a separate file, I like the idea of having it 00:07:18.760 --> 00:07:20.280 in this contributing guide. 00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:20.640 Yeah. 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:25.500 I think the contributing guide should just link to Brett Cannon's presentation about open 00:07:25.500 --> 00:07:26.360 source expectations. 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:27.340 Yeah. 00:07:27.340 --> 00:07:28.780 Anyway, don't be a jerk. 00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:29.960 Yeah. 00:07:29.960 --> 00:07:31.880 You're giving me a puppy with this PR. 00:07:31.880 --> 00:07:32.660 Just understand. 00:07:32.660 --> 00:07:33.460 Thank you. 00:07:33.460 --> 00:07:35.040 Thank you for the puppy. 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:37.800 I think I will link to that in certain projects. 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:41.080 Because I've got like, you know, like four contributors on my project. 00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:42.780 So, wow, it's just exploding. 00:07:42.780 --> 00:07:44.280 That's actually pretty good. 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:48.960 I think the step from zero to one is bigger than from like one to 10. 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:49.360 Maybe. 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:51.320 For most projects to get anybody to care, right? 00:07:51.320 --> 00:07:51.640 Yeah. 00:07:51.640 --> 00:07:55.180 Well, and I'm having trouble getting myself to do more work on it. 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:55.440 Yeah. 00:07:55.440 --> 00:07:56.560 That's a different problem. 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:59.280 So, speaking of different problems. 00:07:59.280 --> 00:07:59.680 Yes. 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:01.780 So, let's talk about data science for a minute. 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:05.960 The Visual Studio Code folks are building some really interesting tools. 00:08:05.960 --> 00:08:10.340 And there's some quite unique things coming from it. 00:08:10.340 --> 00:08:13.040 So, you know, I'm a big fan of PyCharm. 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:17.860 But if I'm not using PyCharm, VS Code is the thing that I would pick up and use. 00:08:17.860 --> 00:08:18.340 Right? 00:08:18.340 --> 00:08:21.440 So, it's like if I have something really small, I'll probably open it up with VS Code. 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:23.580 Like real projects probably stick to PyCharm. 00:08:23.960 --> 00:08:25.840 But VS Code is definitely coming along. 00:08:25.840 --> 00:08:30.060 I'm sure Brett can't love that. 00:08:30.060 --> 00:08:30.900 For real projects. 00:08:30.900 --> 00:08:31.560 I know. 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:37.000 I think it's more that PyCharm is more focused on working with lots of files and project stuff. 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:40.820 And it doesn't make a lot of sense, as much sense to just opening up for like one file. 00:08:40.820 --> 00:08:42.880 It sort of can, but not as much. 00:08:42.880 --> 00:08:43.540 Yeah. 00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:46.180 So, VS Code is definitely coming along. 00:08:46.180 --> 00:08:50.600 And one of the things it hasn't had a lot of is support for some of the data science tools. 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:59.760 But now, with the latest release, they just announced a really unique way of doing Jupyter Notebook type of support. 00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.360 Oh, wow. 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:00.600 Right. 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.980 So, normally, Jupyter Notebook is like you go and you open up the notebook. 00:09:03.980 --> 00:09:05.160 And you've got these cells. 00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:06.260 And you type in the cells. 00:09:06.260 --> 00:09:07.240 And you run the cells. 00:09:07.640 --> 00:09:12.520 And there's like these IPNB files, whatever the extension is. 00:09:12.520 --> 00:09:14.420 They're not really Python files. 00:09:14.420 --> 00:09:18.460 They're like XML or something weird in there that has like embedded Python that can run. 00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.720 Right. 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:23.580 So, this leads to all sorts of funky things like profiling it or testing it. 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:25.220 All those can be somewhat challenging. 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:25.700 Right. 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:28.060 Because you've got to get into the notebook and whatnot. 00:09:28.060 --> 00:09:28.900 Yeah. 00:09:28.900 --> 00:09:37.400 So, VS Code has taken like a pretty unique approach where what they'll do is they will turn their editor into like a notebook-like surface. 00:09:37.840 --> 00:09:40.740 But it's actually still a single Python file. 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:42.600 And you just put, what's the syntax? 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:44.820 You put hash percent percent. 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:47.720 And that line defines a cell in the file. 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:48.180 Mm. 00:09:48.180 --> 00:09:49.740 And you get separate output from them. 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:49.840 Okay. 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:55.140 You get separate graphs and all sorts of stuff that you would have in like a side window out of the Jupyter Notebooks. 00:09:55.140 --> 00:09:59.360 But you have a single Python file that you still treat as a single Python file. 00:09:59.360 --> 00:09:59.840 Okay. 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.940 Does it generate a notebook file? 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:04.560 I don't know if it generates it. 00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:05.580 It will import them. 00:10:05.680 --> 00:10:11.180 So, you could tell it to open a proper notebook and it'll convert it to this format that I just described. 00:10:11.180 --> 00:10:11.600 Okay. 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:12.080 Neat. 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:12.280 Yeah. 00:10:12.280 --> 00:10:20.140 So, if you're doing any sort of thing with notebooks, this is a really nice way to kind of work in a full-on text editor style. 00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:24.180 But still get all the benefits or most of the benefits, at least, of Jupyter. 00:10:24.180 --> 00:10:24.660 Yeah. 00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:27.400 I do like that they're continuing. 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:30.680 I know that there's a lot of work on VS Code making it. 00:10:30.680 --> 00:10:34.000 They're trying to make it even better and better all the time. 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:34.920 That's a good thing. 00:10:34.920 --> 00:10:35.180 Yeah. 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.740 I guess some of the other things to throw out there that I added, now it has better support for virtual environments. 00:10:39.740 --> 00:10:44.760 So, you can like create a virtual environment in your project level directory and it'll detect it. 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:45.560 Things like that. 00:10:45.560 --> 00:10:47.860 So, there's a few other nice things. 00:10:47.860 --> 00:10:49.020 Better completion, whatnot. 00:10:49.020 --> 00:10:53.460 But the big deal is really the Jupyter, pseudo-Jupyter support. 00:10:53.460 --> 00:10:53.840 Yeah. 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:54.180 Cool. 00:10:54.300 --> 00:10:54.420 Yeah. 00:10:54.420 --> 00:10:54.800 It's pretty cool. 00:10:54.800 --> 00:10:58.340 I don't do that much with Jupyter, but if I did, I would definitely consider this. 00:10:58.340 --> 00:11:01.420 I don't know if you would say it's the right way, but it's definitely a good way. 00:11:01.420 --> 00:11:01.760 Yeah. 00:11:01.760 --> 00:11:05.160 I don't play Doctor on TV, but never mind. 00:11:05.160 --> 00:11:06.100 All right. 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:07.120 So, speaking of the right way. 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.260 Speaking of the right way. 00:11:09.260 --> 00:11:14.540 So, a lot of people have projects they're supporting or thinking about maybe not a lot of people. 00:11:14.540 --> 00:11:16.140 There are a lot of open source projects. 00:11:16.140 --> 00:11:24.020 One of the things that we've talked about is if you have users, they might get upset if you change things. 00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:25.820 And change is inevitable. 00:11:25.820 --> 00:11:26.920 Don't fear change. 00:11:26.920 --> 00:11:27.780 Send it to me. 00:11:27.780 --> 00:11:31.940 But one of the things you've got to think about is your API. 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:34.060 And APIs evolve. 00:11:34.060 --> 00:11:37.960 And so, there's an article called API Evolution the Right Way. 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.320 And this is written by A. Jesse Giroux Davis. 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:43.800 And he is an excellent writer. 00:11:43.800 --> 00:11:49.680 I mean, even if you don't care about this topic, he puts really cool graphics in his articles. 00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:51.380 And also, he's just a good writer. 00:11:51.380 --> 00:11:52.480 He's a super storyteller. 00:11:52.660 --> 00:11:55.580 And this one is, no doubt, part of that. 00:11:55.580 --> 00:11:57.140 So, check it out for that alone, right? 00:11:57.140 --> 00:11:57.500 Yeah. 00:11:57.500 --> 00:12:01.640 And, like, it's, okay, the first line is, imagine you're a creator deity. 00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:03.560 I mean, that's just good. 00:12:03.560 --> 00:12:09.880 So, he does it in an analogy of, you know, a snake gaining wings and things like that. 00:12:09.880 --> 00:12:16.100 But, anyway, he talks about how to go about adding features, removing features, deleting features. 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:18.000 That's something you sometimes have to do. 00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:26.360 And he also, and adding and removing, like, you probably wouldn't remove parameters from an API call. 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:27.580 But you might add some. 00:12:27.580 --> 00:12:29.080 How to go about doing that. 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:30.020 Changing behavior. 00:12:30.020 --> 00:12:33.780 Sometimes things just aren't working the way they should. 00:12:33.780 --> 00:12:35.660 And they should work different ways. 00:12:36.040 --> 00:12:42.840 And he also gives some examples and some examples of things that, even in the Python standard library, that changed. 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.520 Because the way it used to work just was weird. 00:12:45.520 --> 00:12:49.960 One of his examples was that you could date times. 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:56.580 So, if you did datetime.time with the parameters 0-0. 00:12:56.580 --> 00:12:59.620 So, that's an odd time. 00:12:59.620 --> 00:13:00.640 But it does happen. 00:13:00.640 --> 00:13:08.420 And it happens if you have it in a loop and are checking to see if the time is not null or something. 00:13:08.420 --> 00:13:11.100 But you just said if x or if time. 00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:15.720 That'll return true sometimes if it's 0-0. 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:20.860 So, that's converting bools to time or time to bools. 00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:23.060 A valid time should return true. 00:13:23.060 --> 00:13:24.820 But it used to return false. 00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:27.980 And that was in pre, yeah, 3.4 and before. 00:13:27.980 --> 00:13:28.760 Oh, my gosh. 00:13:28.760 --> 00:13:29.620 It returned false. 00:13:29.620 --> 00:13:30.740 And that's just weird. 00:13:30.740 --> 00:13:36.500 You know, sometimes there's just behaviors in your code that you didn't intend that you need to change. 00:13:36.500 --> 00:13:41.440 And how to go about doing that in a nice way if you've got users in a public API. 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.720 So, it's a good article. 00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:44.520 Yeah, he's got some good advice for sure. 00:13:44.520 --> 00:13:47.540 One of them includes not putting feathers on snakes. 00:13:47.540 --> 00:13:50.160 Another one is like evolve cautiously. 00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:53.040 You know, avoid bad features if you knew, right? 00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:56.100 Minimize features less to maintain. 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:57.220 Keep features narrow. 00:13:57.220 --> 00:13:59.720 Mark experimental features as provisional. 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.360 Delete gently and stuff like that. 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.720 Yeah, provisional features actually are interesting. 00:14:05.380 --> 00:14:07.520 But they're still tricky. 00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:15.440 Like, for instance, pytest introduced an experiment on how to deal with fixtures at one point. 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.820 And they're still, I guess, just recently deprecated them. 00:14:19.820 --> 00:14:22.300 Or they've been deprecated for a while. 00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:27.100 But it took a while to, it's hard to remove stuff because people might be using it. 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:28.040 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:31.680 Even if you say provisional, someone's going to be like, wait, why did that leave? 00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:32.300 I needed that. 00:14:32.300 --> 00:14:32.700 Yeah. 00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:35.180 It was a test. 00:14:35.620 --> 00:14:35.960 I don't know. 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:36.960 Maybe separate branches. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:38.220 Maybe. 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:38.760 I don't know. 00:14:38.760 --> 00:14:43.580 It's hard to know what to do to really push that out and let people test it, but then actually take it away. 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:43.880 Yeah. 00:14:43.880 --> 00:14:44.220 Yeah. 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:45.000 That's a tough one. 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.020 Thanks for that advice. 00:14:46.020 --> 00:14:46.620 Yeah, yeah. 00:14:46.620 --> 00:14:48.540 Jesse, that's a great article. 00:14:48.740 --> 00:14:50.040 I really love it. 00:14:50.040 --> 00:14:52.380 The way all the pictures and the storytelling. 00:14:52.380 --> 00:14:54.140 And he's a great writer. 00:14:54.140 --> 00:14:54.760 Nicely done. 00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:59.800 Now, before we get back on one of our kicks, because it has returned. 00:15:00.020 --> 00:15:01.920 So I want to tell you all about DigitalOcean. 00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:05.740 So DigitalOcean, super big supporter of the show. 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:08.880 They're sponsoring every episode for the second half of this year. 00:15:08.880 --> 00:15:10.260 So thank you to them for that. 00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:13.560 And we've talked about you're not Netflix. 00:15:13.560 --> 00:15:14.740 You're not LinkedIn. 00:15:14.740 --> 00:15:15.660 You're not Facebook. 00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:28.700 I just interviewed some guy from, a guy Colton from Adobe, talking about managing the security of 40,000 servers for some of their back-end stuff and how they do that. 00:15:28.700 --> 00:15:30.540 Some people have those problems. 00:15:30.540 --> 00:15:30.860 Yeah. 00:15:30.860 --> 00:15:33.460 And the systems that manage that get pretty complicated. 00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:39.340 But most people don't have that problem, and they shouldn't have to deal with systems that are way complicated to handle that kind of stuff, right? 00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:44.000 Most people want to spin up a server, have a database server, maybe a firewall, a static IP. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.320 And if that's the kind of thing you want, you can do quick, easy, affordable, reliable. 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:49.580 Go check out DigitalOcean. 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:51.280 So we use them. 00:15:51.280 --> 00:15:54.560 WeWork, Docker, GitLab, Slack, all those folks use them. 00:15:54.560 --> 00:15:57.100 And it's way, way cheaper, way, way simpler. 00:15:57.100 --> 00:15:58.660 You can get started right away. 00:15:58.660 --> 00:16:01.180 So check them out at pythonbytes.fm/DigitalOcean. 00:16:01.180 --> 00:16:03.760 Get $100 to play around and get started. 00:16:03.760 --> 00:16:06.760 And definitely recommend them working out well for us. 00:16:06.760 --> 00:16:07.960 Probably will for you as well. 00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:08.340 Yeah. 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:08.820 Thanks. 00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:09.120 Yep. 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:09.960 Thanks, DigitalOcean. 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:11.180 Now, I'm trying to remember. 00:16:11.180 --> 00:16:12.180 Have we spoken about GUIs? 00:16:12.180 --> 00:16:13.020 I don't think we have. 00:16:13.020 --> 00:16:13.900 No, let's talk. 00:16:13.900 --> 00:16:15.320 We should totally do that. 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:16.260 Let's talk about them. 00:16:16.260 --> 00:16:18.060 So actually, this is the thing. 00:16:18.060 --> 00:16:22.780 This is a, we talk about GUIs so much, this item is back on Python Bytes. 00:16:22.780 --> 00:16:27.180 Like it is previously on episode 90, we spoke about this thing called PySimpleGUI. 00:16:27.580 --> 00:16:43.920 And PySimpleGUI, GUI is, I would put it in the category of this other thing called GUI, G-O-O-E-Y, which is, these are like really simple ways to build kind of standard, not overly customized UIs. 00:16:43.980 --> 00:16:46.280 I just like quickly want to get like a UI up. 00:16:46.280 --> 00:16:48.620 Like I can get some input, show some stuff to the user. 00:16:48.620 --> 00:16:56.900 This one is more advanced than GUI, but still it's kind of meant to be, I want to get up something quick and not like massively complicated, right? 00:16:56.980 --> 00:17:02.680 Like you wouldn't build like a full on web browser in here, but you might build like a little utility that you all use. 00:17:02.680 --> 00:17:08.860 So the idea is you sort of declare the types of controls that go on your layout and then it pops up. 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:20.580 Now, one of my complaints back when we were on this kick in episode 90 was this is based on TK Enter and it looks like it's straight out of 1990, which was amazing because I love history. 00:17:20.580 --> 00:17:23.380 But I don't want my modern apps to look that way, right? 00:17:23.380 --> 00:17:25.200 And I mean, that's not a... 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:26.980 It's great music, bad user interfaces. 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:27.540 Exactly. 00:17:27.540 --> 00:17:30.740 I mean, come on, Black, Pearl Jam, we even have a package named after. 00:17:30.740 --> 00:17:38.880 Anyway, so the idea is you can simply create these GUIs, but the drawback was it was built on TK Enter. 00:17:39.280 --> 00:17:39.480 Right? 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:43.440 Which you can build nice stuff, but it just looks a little out of place. 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:48.620 I think maybe based on our feedback, certainly on other people's feedback, Mike decided, you know what? 00:17:48.620 --> 00:17:51.680 Let's try to create this for Qt because Qt looks modern. 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.020 Qt looks nice, right? 00:17:53.020 --> 00:17:55.580 Like Qt is definitely a good looking framework. 00:17:55.580 --> 00:17:59.300 Like if you build an app in there, you might not know that it's not native. 00:17:59.300 --> 00:18:01.480 It's not built with Xcode, right? 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.480 And Coco, something like that on Mac. 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:05.840 So he took a shot at it. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.220 And in one week, he fully created a Qt version. 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:15.920 So now you have TK Enter if you want no dependencies, and you have a Qt version if you want it to not look like, you know, Pearl Jam loved it. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.620 It really does look nice. 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.720 So I'm excited about this, actually. 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:22.460 Yeah. 00:18:22.460 --> 00:18:22.660 Yeah. 00:18:22.660 --> 00:18:24.520 The new one is looking quite good. 00:18:24.520 --> 00:18:26.040 So it's sort of a declarative little builder. 00:18:26.040 --> 00:18:30.460 All you got to do is pip install PySide 2, and it has no dependencies. 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:31.780 It's a single Python file. 00:18:31.780 --> 00:18:34.420 It only works on modern Python as well. 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:36.140 But he's sort of inspired by this. 00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:39.760 He's also working towards a WX Python and a Kivy. 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:43.880 And if he gets Kivy going, that would be pretty sweet because that would be mobile. 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:44.400 Yeah. 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:44.720 Right. 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:46.620 So, so far, everything has been desktop. 00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:50.720 But if he can get Kivy going, Kivy's a mobile Python framework, and that would be pretty killer. 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.360 Well, and also, it'd be kind of a cool thing to try to do something. 00:18:55.360 --> 00:19:02.520 Like, if you had similar code and ran it, generated all these different versions, and then you can kind of look to see which one you like better. 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:03.400 Yeah, exactly. 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:09.280 And the, I should point out, the API is identical from TKenter and Qt, right? 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:09.500 Yeah. 00:19:09.500 --> 00:19:11.240 So you just, you just do a different import statement. 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.240 You import the Qt one instead of the standard one. 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:17.260 And as long as you have the dependencies in place, like, the API doesn't change. 00:19:17.260 --> 00:19:18.900 So you could, I mean, even do that at runtime. 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:21.420 Like, see if they have Qt installed. 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:24.580 If they don't fall back to TKenter and apologize a little bit. 00:19:24.580 --> 00:19:26.420 Sorry. 00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:29.180 But if you want this to look better, you got to go run this line. 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:40.880 No, you should go do something like check out the Fman build system, which will let you then take this thing, package it up as a installer for a binary, standalone binary for the various OSs, and then you'll be in business. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.020 And you can make millions. 00:19:42.020 --> 00:19:44.340 Millions and millions of cents. 00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:45.300 Yes. 00:19:45.300 --> 00:19:45.420 Okay. 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:46.400 Okay. 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:47.640 All right. 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:56.180 So nothing major, but just sort of an update on that one, because I think the featuring, the ability to use Qt here is actually a really, really big deal. 00:19:56.740 --> 00:20:07.840 One of the other major things happening right now is a lot of the core development around Python is kind of put on hold because nobody knows who to ask on how something gets approved, who approves it, or anything. 00:20:07.840 --> 00:20:09.080 Tell us more about this. 00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:12.380 People at the heart of Python are the core developers. 00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:14.260 They're trying to figure out all this stuff. 00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:27.560 And since Guido has stepped down as official benevolent dictator for life, I'm not sure how that works, but the governance model around Python is changing. 00:20:27.560 --> 00:20:31.140 I think it used to be go ask Guido for final word, and that was that. 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:31.840 Yeah. 00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:35.200 I think it may have been a little more structured than that. 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:36.820 I'm summarizing. 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.620 I'm summarizing. 00:20:37.620 --> 00:20:41.380 How do we go forward is a topic. 00:20:41.380 --> 00:20:47.460 And Victor Stinner, who is one of the core developers also, I met him last year at PyCon, great guy. 00:20:48.060 --> 00:20:53.480 He came up with this summary of there's a whole bunch of competing governance models. 00:20:53.480 --> 00:21:00.260 And they are summarized at actually what there's one PEP called PEP 8000 that summarizes all of them. 00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:02.580 But they don't it doesn't really compare them. 00:21:02.580 --> 00:21:04.480 It's just a quick summary of the different ones. 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.580 But there's a they're numbered 10 through 16. 00:21:08.580 --> 00:21:09.360 Why is that? 00:21:09.360 --> 00:21:11.420 There's zero one, two. 00:21:11.620 --> 00:21:13.480 I think there's seven different models. 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:19.240 Of course, Victor has put together a comparison of the different ones and how in different ways. 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:30.940 So, for instance, comparing them, what their hierarchy is like, how many people are involved, what the terminal limits look like, what's the PEP process going to be like and whether they include code of conduct and stuff. 00:21:31.280 --> 00:21:34.520 And my guess is none of these are going to win just wholeheartedly. 00:21:34.520 --> 00:21:40.280 There's probably going to be pieces of the different PEPs that get combined into whatever we end up with. 00:21:40.280 --> 00:21:47.100 But if you're curious about what the core developers are up to for your future, you can look at some of this stuff. 00:21:47.100 --> 00:21:48.380 Yeah, this is really interesting. 00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:50.520 And it's a bit of a catch 22, right? 00:21:50.520 --> 00:21:53.140 Like, who even decides on the governance model? 00:21:55.280 --> 00:21:55.960 Well, right. 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:02.440 Because Guido explicitly said when he stepped back to just standard core developer was, and I'm not going to decide for you. 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.140 You all have to decide for yourselves. 00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:06.740 I guess maybe vote by a core developer team. 00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:07.160 I don't know. 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:07.620 Yeah. 00:22:07.620 --> 00:22:08.980 So, there's only seven. 00:22:08.980 --> 00:22:13.240 So, like, for instance, the first one is we just pick another leader. 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:18.520 So, it's something kind of like we have now, but it's a different person, a technical leader governance model. 00:22:18.520 --> 00:22:21.160 There's one that's led by a trio. 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:25.380 So, kind of like that, kind of like Guido, but three other people kind of share that. 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:30.800 You know, when we talked to Brett Cannon and Carol Willing back on, what was that episode? 00:22:30.800 --> 00:22:32.500 Around 90-ish. 00:22:32.500 --> 00:22:32.940 I'm not sure. 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:33.640 Do you remember? 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:34.680 Wasn't it 100? 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:35.720 No, that was a different one. 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:36.160 Oh, okay. 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.860 We did a special dedicated one on this whole topic. 00:22:38.860 --> 00:22:40.660 I just don't remember exactly what the number was. 00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:41.520 The number was. 00:22:41.520 --> 00:22:50.680 But anyway, I thought it was really interesting that I thought, of course, there's going to have to be an odd number of leaders because you're going to need a tiebreaker, right? 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:51.320 Yeah. 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:56.940 And Brett pointed out that some people are saying, you know, actually, it may be better to have an even number. 00:22:56.940 --> 00:22:58.860 So, ties mean do nothing. 00:22:58.860 --> 00:23:10.140 And you have to have a majority, like a clear majority to make any changes, which actually, I think, so maybe, like, led by four or six or something like that actually is an interesting option. 00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:10.420 Yeah. 00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:18.900 But I think it's kind of cool that this is all happening in the open and people can comment on the different proposals and they can also comment on this summary. 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:19.200 Yeah. 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.340 They definitely can, right, at the bottom of the show page. 00:23:21.340 --> 00:23:21.640 Yeah. 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:22.000 Nice. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:22.300 All right. 00:23:22.300 --> 00:23:23.380 Well, thanks for featuring that. 00:23:23.380 --> 00:23:24.420 It's going to be interesting. 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:29.620 And I would guess we hear by the time PyCon happens what the decision is. 00:23:29.780 --> 00:23:38.660 I doubt they can go that long, more than, you know, close to a year without having any form of leading person or group. 00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:43.940 One of the options that's not on the table is we can just say we're done and not develop Python anymore. 00:23:43.940 --> 00:23:46.220 No, that's not an option. 00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:46.880 We can't do that. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:47.180 Right. 00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:48.560 It's just doing too well. 00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:52.340 But, you know, I guess it's always an implicit option if we could just stop. 00:23:52.340 --> 00:23:53.220 All right. 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:57.740 So the last one that I want to cover, the last main topic, is this thing called Shiboken. 00:23:57.740 --> 00:24:01.100 Because it comes from GUIs and I'm back on my GUI kick. 00:24:01.100 --> 00:24:03.640 No, that's sort of true, but that's not why I care about it. 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:16.080 So Shiboken is this subsystem that the Qt folks made to create the Qt for Python, which is basically they go to the Qt libraries, which are all C++ header files, 00:24:16.340 --> 00:24:25.780 and they want to make Python versions of that without maintaining a separate library that is, you know, here's the Qt one, here's the Python one, they'll get out of sync and whatnot. 00:24:25.780 --> 00:24:33.020 So they created this thing called Shiboken, and the idea is you can run Shiboken against arbitrary C, C++ code, 00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:37.980 and it will output Python libraries that interact with that at a C level. 00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:38.760 That's cool. 00:24:38.760 --> 00:24:39.040 Right. 00:24:39.040 --> 00:24:43.560 So if you have any C code you want to interact with, you can just run this against it. 00:24:44.060 --> 00:24:48.740 And it has like a type system, which is an XML file type of thing that you can customize. 00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:55.980 So if you see, you know, this thing star in C, well, what that means is actually this type in Python. 00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:56.660 Right. 00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:58.760 So you can manage that a little bit. 00:24:58.760 --> 00:24:59.000 Right. 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:03.980 Like standard string is actually, you know, str in Python, and you could tell it to do those mappings. 00:25:04.460 --> 00:25:11.320 But then you point it at these libraries, and it can, you know, extract them, you can hide functions or add functions, all sorts of stuff. 00:25:11.320 --> 00:25:12.400 So it's pretty cool. 00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:13.160 That is great. 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:14.420 Automating the boring stuff. 00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:14.840 Exactly. 00:25:14.840 --> 00:25:16.200 Definitely automating the boring stuff. 00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:26.060 So these folks are creating and maintaining it to build PySide 2, basically, at least the wrapper part of PySide 2. 00:25:26.060 --> 00:25:29.640 But you can use it for whatever you want if you have C code. 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.080 It has nothing to do with GUIs or Qt or anything like that. 00:25:33.080 --> 00:25:35.440 And there's two interesting blog posts. 00:25:35.540 --> 00:25:38.100 One is Qt for Python under the hood, which I'll link to. 00:25:38.100 --> 00:25:47.000 And that one basically shows you how this fits into their overall build system, which has Clang and C++ and CPython and all sorts of stuff. 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:53.160 And then one that's sort of a tutorial called Write Your Own Python Bindings. 00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.620 And that one takes you through the process of more or less what I'm describing here. 00:25:56.620 --> 00:26:05.180 It creates some non-trivial C++ classes with public, private members using the standard library and things like that. 00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:08.000 And then it creates a Python wrapper and then uses it. 00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:08.400 It's pretty cool. 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:08.840 Yeah. 00:26:08.840 --> 00:26:09.820 That is neat. 00:26:09.820 --> 00:26:11.560 Any idea where the name came from? 00:26:11.560 --> 00:26:11.880 No. 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:15.080 No idea at all. 00:26:15.080 --> 00:26:18.000 There's probably a really great story where the name came from. 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:18.260 Yeah. 00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:19.380 But I don't know where it came from. 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:23.860 So this is one of the options if you want to do C++ stuff. 00:26:23.860 --> 00:26:27.040 But there's others as well, right? 00:26:27.040 --> 00:26:28.300 So you could use CFFI. 00:26:28.300 --> 00:26:32.980 This is sort of a more modern way to explicitly write these mappings. 00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:36.700 And Dan Bader over on dbader.org actually has a good write-up on that. 00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:37.360 So I'll link to that. 00:26:37.360 --> 00:26:46.600 Or you could use Cython, which actually is a really cool way to just directly import and start using C libraries. 00:26:46.600 --> 00:26:50.740 Just basically you define the function shape and then you import the header. 00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:52.880 You say, this function comes from this header file. 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:53.800 Let's roll with that. 00:26:53.800 --> 00:26:55.740 And then you just start using it in Python. 00:26:55.740 --> 00:26:59.300 Of course, you've got to compile your Cython code with Cython. 00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:00.180 But it's pretty nice. 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:03.160 And so there's a good example of doing that from scratch as well. 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.140 So Shabokan, these other two, they're all quite interesting. 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:06.920 I'll link to them all. 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:07.420 Nice. 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:07.700 Yeah. 00:27:07.700 --> 00:27:09.500 Well, that's it for our official items, right? 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:10.560 You got anything else you want to share? 00:27:10.560 --> 00:27:11.260 I don't. 00:27:11.260 --> 00:27:11.880 Do you? 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:16.300 I actually have a whole bunch of stuff that I'm very excited about, but it's very short. 00:27:16.300 --> 00:27:17.120 So let me just tell you. 00:27:17.120 --> 00:27:19.280 First of all, I bought my PyCon ticket. 00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:19.840 Woo! 00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:22.440 I still need to do that. 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:23.040 Yeah. 00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:24.200 It's exciting. 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:27.900 The big news is that the PyCon tickets went on sale just like three or four days ago. 00:27:28.220 --> 00:27:34.300 So I don't know if it sold out last year or not, but you don't want to be looking, you 00:27:34.300 --> 00:27:38.760 know, standing outside there by the Great Lakes in Cleveland, looking at the windows with all 00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:42.820 the people enjoying themselves and not being able to go in, get your PyCon ticket as soon 00:27:42.820 --> 00:27:44.020 as you can, because it's going to be fun. 00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:44.760 It's always fun. 00:27:44.760 --> 00:27:46.100 I'm looking forward to being there with you, Brian. 00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:46.960 Yeah. 00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:47.520 It's going to be awesome. 00:27:47.520 --> 00:27:52.520 And if you would like a closer, smaller, but still fun version, closer by definition 00:27:52.520 --> 00:27:58.060 to Brian and me, PyCascades tickets also went on sale just a couple of days ago. 00:27:58.060 --> 00:28:01.380 And this is the much smaller, like 200 person conference in Seattle. 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.240 And this one will definitely sell out because it's so small. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:04.540 Yeah. 00:28:04.540 --> 00:28:09.420 I think they received over 200 talk submissions and they can only have 200 people. 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:11.380 So I'm pretty sure it's going to sell out. 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:11.680 Yeah. 00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:11.980 Yeah. 00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:13.140 So look into that. 00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:14.100 That one's cheaper, smaller. 00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:17.500 And if you're in the Northwest, closer, but maybe that doesn't describe. 00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:19.660 Many of the listeners, but yeah, it does for us. 00:28:19.660 --> 00:28:22.980 So I'm going to be going this year, but it's the first time I didn't go last year. 00:28:22.980 --> 00:28:24.800 So I'm excited to check it out. 00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:25.680 Yeah, I'm excited. 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:26.780 This will be my second year. 00:28:26.780 --> 00:28:28.580 I'm also going and it's going to be great. 00:28:28.580 --> 00:28:29.360 Okay. 00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:30.580 So those are the conference stories. 00:28:30.580 --> 00:28:32.000 Those are the two big conferences. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:34.060 You know, definitely the PyCon one is a big deal. 00:28:34.060 --> 00:28:36.400 The other one is, have I talked about GUIs? 00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:36.820 No. 00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:40.260 So the other one is a book that caught my attention. 00:28:40.260 --> 00:28:44.320 Like there's tons of Python books and, you know, sometimes they're interesting sounding, but 00:28:44.320 --> 00:28:49.440 this one really seemed to have a unique, like really to draw the reader in. 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.020 It was really a cool angle on it. 00:28:51.020 --> 00:28:54.760 It's called Mission Python Code a Space Adventure Game. 00:28:54.760 --> 00:29:00.340 So basically it sets up the story of this universe that you have to save and it takes you using 00:29:00.340 --> 00:29:05.700 PyGame and PyGame Zero and all sorts of stuff to create games with sounds and graphics and 00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:07.020 just walks you through building this game. 00:29:07.020 --> 00:29:10.020 And I think it looks like a super fun way to get into PyGame. 00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:12.140 That's kind of exciting to check this out too. 00:29:12.140 --> 00:29:12.600 It looks fun. 00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:12.920 Yeah. 00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:14.860 I'm like, maybe this needs to be one of my projects. 00:29:14.860 --> 00:29:17.500 And then I remind myself, no, you're already too busy. 00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:18.760 Please don't do this to yourself. 00:29:18.760 --> 00:29:20.220 Yeah. 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:24.740 Like somebody said that we ought to go off and learn data science together. 00:29:24.740 --> 00:29:28.000 But yeah, there's a lot going on in both of our lives. 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:28.320 Yeah. 00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:29.020 Yeah, for sure. 00:29:29.020 --> 00:29:32.300 Much of around Python, but that bucket is getting quite full. 00:29:32.300 --> 00:29:35.740 So, but I, this is definitely one of the things that tempted me to like add one more 00:29:35.740 --> 00:29:36.360 thing to the bucket. 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:36.980 It looks interesting. 00:29:36.980 --> 00:29:37.240 Yeah. 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:37.580 All right. 00:29:37.580 --> 00:29:40.900 Brian, thanks for being here and sharing all this with me and everyone else. 00:29:40.900 --> 00:29:41.140 Yeah. 00:29:41.140 --> 00:29:41.520 Thank you. 00:29:41.520 --> 00:29:41.820 You bet. 00:29:41.820 --> 00:29:42.020 Bye. 00:29:42.020 --> 00:29:44.000 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.540 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:29:46.540 --> 00:29:49.420 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:29:49.420 --> 00:29:52.860 And get the full show notes at pythonbytes.fm. 00:29:52.860 --> 00:29:57.180 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:29:57.180 --> 00:29:59.900 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:03.280 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. 00:30:03.280 --> 00:30:06.800 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.