WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.680 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.680 --> 00:00:11.700 your earbuds. This is episode 117, recorded February 12th, 2019. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:12.520 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:12.520 --> 00:00:13.240 Hey, Brian. How you doing? 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:13.880 I'm great. 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:18.080 Excellent. Great to hear. Great to hear. You haven't been flooded out in this torrential 00:00:18.080 --> 00:00:19.260 rain that we're having around here? 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:21.720 Nope. And I survived snowpocalypse. 00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:24.040 Yes. So did I. My rain jacket got me through. 00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:25.240 Yeah. 00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:29.380 Wouldn't do that. This episode is brought to you by Datadog. Check them out at 00:00:29.380 --> 00:00:35.060 pythonbytes.fm/Datadog. All sorts of cool monitoring stuff. Tell you about more later. 00:00:35.060 --> 00:00:39.880 Brian, the first thing you have queued up here is super exciting to me. Hit me. 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:46.080 Okay. Well, in 117 episodes, this is the first time we collided and both picked the same article. 00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:48.020 Because it's good, because it matters. 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:52.120 Okay. So here is Goodbye Virtual Environments. 00:00:52.120 --> 00:00:52.760 What? 00:00:52.760 --> 00:00:56.320 Well, I don't know about that. 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:59.000 Is this just like pseudo pip install into like root? 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:01.840 Is this what they're just like, forget it. It's too much. We're out of here. 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.500 Well, so we have a lot of solutions to this. 00:01:05.500 --> 00:01:07.460 So this is an article by Chad Smith. 00:01:07.460 --> 00:01:16.360 And apparently this is referencing pep582, which is a local packages directory PEP improvement. 00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:18.400 Okay. So here's the premise. 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:22.080 Virtual environments are awesome, but they have some problems. 00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:37.620 They, the learning curve bit. So when you're trying to teach people how to use Python, you want them to have a safe environment. So you start them off with virtual environments and you have to like teach them about all this gunk and they don't even see any code yet. 00:01:37.880 --> 00:01:38.940 So there's that problem. 00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:52.800 Right. And if you close like your terminal, yeah, it'll come back. And you're like, oh man, I forgot to reactivate it. Like, why won't this run? I mean, you know, once you get into it, it's fine. But like, as a new person, you're like, why did this work before? And now it doesn't? Super frustrating. Right? 00:01:52.800 --> 00:02:07.040 So that the proposal is if you have a directory sitting around in your local, say called Dunder pypackages. So it's two underscores on each end pypackages as a directory. It's just sitting there. It doesn't have to have anything in it. 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:22.040 The idea is if you pip install while you're there, it, instead of installing it in the site packages or anywhere else, it'll just install it in this local package directory. And you don't even really have to care what it looks like in there, but it's there. 00:02:22.760 --> 00:02:35.780 And then, so there's a couple changes. It's got a pip has to change, but also Python has to change because Python has to include looking for a pypackages directory locally to see if something's there. 00:02:35.780 --> 00:02:44.100 Some of the neat things about this is that it's not where you're calling it from. It's not your current directory when you're calling a module or something. 00:02:44.100 --> 00:02:49.020 So let's say somebody is just somebody that's writing a Python script and it has some dependencies. 00:02:49.260 --> 00:03:06.740 They could have a pypackages directory right next to their script. And then as long as their script is in their search path, Python will pick, run that. And then, then if that module has some imports, it'll try the local packages first. So that's kind of cool. I think that's it. 00:03:06.740 --> 00:03:17.800 Yeah, I think this is fantastic. And if I could take all my votes for what I'd like to see added to Python, certainly more than one would go towards this. So I think this is great. 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:31.580 It's basically like what Node does with Node modules and other things. There's a convention that if there's this folder in the root of your project and you run code, it will try to use the modules or packages in our case from that location. 00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:49.320 There's no more activating. There's no more deactivating. None of that. You pip install. If it sees dunder pypackages, it installs it there. You Python run. And if it sees pypackages next to your file or in the working directory, it uses that from there as if it were a virtual environment. 00:03:49.320 --> 00:04:11.560 You don't have to keep activating it and deactivate it and make sure it's the right one. And it already follows a convention that so many people already do. Either create a VENV or .ENV folder at the root of your project. So many people do that. Editors like PyCharm and VS Code automatically detect and activate them. But this would just solve that problem. Flat. I love it. 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:13.400 Well, solves most of the problem. 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:17.080 I love it. What will problems then solve? Where do you see the challenges remain? 00:04:17.080 --> 00:04:46.120 So this article also, it's kind of cool that it has like this little trial thing. You can install a Python loc package to try it out. So I tried it out. And one of the things that's missing is your entry points. So like, let's say I'm installing a command line, some utility that has a command line interface. Where do those go? They actually go in this pypackages directory also, but they're not obvious where they are. 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:54.880 It's not difficult to find them. There's a bin directory in there. In order to be able to use them, you'd still have to modify your environment, like your bash environment or something. 00:04:54.880 --> 00:05:03.480 I see. So like, for example, Pyramid has a p-serve web server that comes when you install it, and it's just in the Python path. 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:03.700 Yeah. 00:05:03.700 --> 00:05:08.220 So you'd have to do some kind of mechanism to make that be active. 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:13.000 Yeah. Or like pytest or Talks or so many things have little extra things that go with them. 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:19.920 Yeah. I mean, I guess you could usually do Python dash M of that thing, but that's pretty clumsy compared to like just typing pytest. 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:20.300 Yeah. 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:21.420 Okay. Yeah. Gotcha. 00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:37.020 I'm all for this. I want it to happen, but I don't think virtual environments are going to go away unless we have, maybe they'll just be, you can have some extra thing in your path or something in your bash environment or whatever that says, hey, also look here. 00:05:37.020 --> 00:05:49.960 Yeah. Well, what I would like to see, I mean, maybe like this Dunder PyPackages is a virtual environment that you just don't have to activate, but you could, if you want to run these types of utilities that you're talking about. 00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:51.040 Yeah. Okay. 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:52.660 That would be a pretty good compromise, I think. 00:05:52.660 --> 00:05:54.900 Anyway, good thing. Doesn't solve everything. 00:05:54.900 --> 00:06:04.160 But I think it's a super step forward because it doesn't impose some opinionated behavior and workflow and other tooling to replace. 00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:17.660 It's like, it just now works. I run Python. It works using the packages that I meant for it to use. I run pip. It installs them into the proper place generally that I meant them to do and so on. So I like it. 00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:27.840 And the getting new people up to speed on stuff quicker, getting, being able to isolate installs application development. There's so many benefits here that it, yeah, it's great. 00:06:28.340 --> 00:06:34.980 Yeah. Love it. So yeah, definitely vote for that over some of the other options. Super cool. So Brian, I got some bad news today. 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:35.640 You do? 00:06:35.640 --> 00:06:44.500 Well, you know, my life's pretty good given that I'm calling this bad news, but I learned about this thing called Google Lighthouse. Have you heard of this? I'd never heard of this. 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:44.740 No. 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:54.940 So Google Lighthouse is a thing that will analyze your websites basically for how well they're going to rank it based on a whole bunch of factors. 00:06:54.940 --> 00:07:01.340 And people have heard of SEO. So you've got like, of course, you should have your title on your head and your H1s and all this stuff that you need. 00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:20.440 But this is more about the behavior of your web application. So is it responsive? Are your images, do they fit on like phone screens? Does it return data at the right amount of time? Are you serving like old style images that are too large and you could reencode them in small, like a huge bunch of these types of things? 00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:34.520 Are you bundling and minifying your CSS and JavaScript? So I sent my site through there, which I consider to be blazing fast, because if you go to like talkpython.fm or some of the other ones or pythonbytes.fm, although I've been cranking on talkpython first before I break Python bytes. 00:07:34.520 --> 00:07:43.100 If you go to the homepage, it renders like out to the network in 15 milliseconds. And I'm like, well, that's pretty much as good as it's going to get, right? 00:07:43.100 --> 00:07:47.480 Maybe I could shave two milliseconds off it, but who cares, right? It's so fast. 00:07:48.280 --> 00:07:56.060 But when you look at all the CSS and all the JavaScript and the way it renders and the images and everything, it turns out that that's, that could be better. 00:07:56.060 --> 00:08:01.900 And I knew that it could be better, but I didn't realize how much Google was sort of punishing my site for it. 00:08:01.900 --> 00:08:06.780 So I went looking and I found this cool Python project called Web Assets. 00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:09.900 I'd never heard of it. Yeah. And I found it on Python, awesome Python. 00:08:09.900 --> 00:08:17.420 So I went there and said, well, what can I find for like minifying JavaScript and bundling CSS, like five CSS files into one and whatnot. 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:25.220 So this is a Python package you install. You basically created an environment that registers your settings. 00:08:25.220 --> 00:08:34.500 Like here's the static folders. If you're going to generate files, like if you're going to take five CSS files, minifying them and like mush them into one giant file that can be gzipped. 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:37.880 Right. If you do that, where do you save it? All those kinds of things. 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:45.100 What transformations you want to apply to it, like bundling and minification or whatever you configure that you give it a list of files. 00:08:45.100 --> 00:08:53.200 And then it will just bust out like a new one onto disk. And you can just start serving that instead of all like you just take away the five CSS links and you put in the one. 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:53.520 Okay. 00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:58.140 It also has built in Flask, Django and Pyramid support. So it integrates in there. 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:02.480 But to me, it looks like a whole bunch of stuff that's getting in the way of your web app working. 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:08.200 Whereas like you can just ask it to save a file that gets served out of Nginx and doesn't touch your Python code. 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:13.040 That seems nicer. So that's what I'm doing. I don't want to integrate it into my app. 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.340 But if you wanted to go that path, you certainly could. It's a really cool little thing. 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:18.800 Oh, neat. So talk Python is faster now. 00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:25.300 It is much faster. It now has a like a best score or whatever on Google's lighthouse, basically. 00:09:25.300 --> 00:09:31.380 Which will help it rank higher in Google search results, which is also pretty awesome. 00:09:31.380 --> 00:09:31.800 Yeah. 00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:38.920 So yeah, there's a bunch of cool. And so anybody doing anything with the web, they should look at their website in Google Lighthouse, which I have a link to. 00:09:38.920 --> 00:09:45.900 And then one way to address some portion of that around your static files anyway, has to do with web assets. 00:09:45.900 --> 00:09:47.240 So that's a pretty cool thing. 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:47.740 Awesome. 00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:49.280 Yeah. And it's all Python goodness. 00:09:49.280 --> 00:09:49.660 Yeah. 00:09:49.660 --> 00:09:53.360 And the next item, have we spoken about packaging? I think we might have touched on it once. 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:54.380 Yes. 00:09:54.380 --> 00:09:56.920 This week? Have we spoken about it this week? 00:09:56.920 --> 00:10:01.520 No, yeah. Let's do it. Sort of. We kind of have in a sense, but let's go. What's next? 00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:07.820 Okay. So we've got actually a three-part series of articles by, I think his name is Bernat Gabor. 00:10:08.340 --> 00:10:13.860 And he is one of the maintainers for talks and virtual environment and a bunch of other stuff. 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:21.820 He's with the Python Packaging Authority, and he's right in the thick of all of this changes in packaging and everything. 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:24.920 He wrote kind of a three-part series. 00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:33.680 The first part is the state of Python packaging, which is just kind of a nice overview of what are we trying to do and what is the issue and all that stuff. 00:10:33.680 --> 00:10:40.260 We've got a bunch of like a directory full of a source directory, and you want to share it with other people. 00:10:40.260 --> 00:10:42.200 And how does that all happen? 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:46.460 And how did it happen in the past using setup tools and all that? 00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:48.320 And where are we at now? 00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:58.320 And then some of the problems, he talked about some of the problems with, I guess it's kind of hard to hand wave this, but it isn't just source files that you just copy from one computer to another. 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:02.860 Sometimes there's C parts to it that need compiled for different machines. 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:06.640 Even Fortran in the data science world, you've got to compile like crazy stuff, right? 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:12.180 Yeah, and so there's that part of it, and that's included in all of this packaging mess. 00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:23.660 And then on the other side, when you're trying to install it, if you just grab the source distribution, then you have to compile it on your side, but you have to make sure that all the compilers are available and all that stuff. 00:11:23.660 --> 00:11:30.720 And it's kind of a mystery black box with a lot of scary guts inside because it's a scary problem. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:31.780 It's a hard problem. 00:11:31.780 --> 00:11:41.700 Now, moving towards things like wheels are pre-compiled, so you build everything before you push it up, and then clients just can just sort of download it and unpack it. 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:49.220 But in order for this all to work right, there's a lot of moving parts, and it's all being done by people in there volunteering their time. 00:11:49.220 --> 00:11:52.200 And that's why I love this set of articles. 00:11:52.200 --> 00:12:02.540 It's from the inside, talking about some of the hard problems, why they did what they did, some of the breaks that happened, and why they happened, and moving forward. 00:12:02.540 --> 00:12:05.200 And I want to read one article. 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.520 It's actually the conclusion, one bit of it. 00:12:07.520 --> 00:12:09.380 It's the conclusion to the third article. 00:12:09.380 --> 00:12:10.480 It says, 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.080 Packaging is hard. 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:20.920 Improving a packaging system without any breakage where users can write and run arbitrary code during the packaging in your free time is probably impossible. 00:12:20.920 --> 00:12:22.600 Yeah, that sounds about right. 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:23.700 Yeah. 00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:31.340 They said, granted, as we go through this change, some packages might break, and we might disallow some practices that worked up until now. 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:36.660 But we, the packaging authority maintainers, do not do it in bad faith. 00:12:36.660 --> 00:12:45.240 So when errors do pop up, please do fill in a detailed error report with what went wrong, how you tried to use it, and what is your use case. 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:47.940 And I guess I have to speak from experience. 00:12:47.940 --> 00:13:00.500 It's when we just, when I started trying to, even when the, some of the same involved people were, were working on some of the transition to the new pip server, IPI. 00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:05.440 It's a similar sort of situation, I think, is when, when we change the way we do things. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:09.800 Some people get upset and just expect it to all just work for free. 00:13:09.800 --> 00:13:12.620 But please keep your head and read this article. 00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:14.760 It's a great series of articles on where we are. 00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:16.360 And I'm, it's going to be hard. 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:17.140 Yeah. 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:19.600 I'm not even going to try to summarize it, but it's good. 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:19.860 Yeah. 00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:21.200 It sounds like a great write-up. 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:27.600 Did, you know, if they, he mentioned the PEP, the one you just mentioned there, what was it, 582? 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.860 No, they didn't, he didn't reference that. 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:37.520 But there's, of course, reference to 517 and 518 that dealt with the pyproject.toml and stuff like that. 00:13:37.520 --> 00:13:37.760 Yeah. 00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:38.160 Cool. 00:13:38.160 --> 00:13:39.160 All right. 00:13:39.160 --> 00:13:44.560 Well, you know what all this means to me, the way I perceive it is, like, people are trying to solve this problem. 00:13:44.560 --> 00:13:45.660 They know it is a problem. 00:13:45.920 --> 00:13:51.940 And I think if we get it dealt with as a community, I think it'll be a massive, massive benefit. 00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:57.760 I mean, I was just talking to someone the other day at a conference here in town, and he was like, oh, well, Go is so awesome. 00:13:57.760 --> 00:14:00.200 I'm like, okay, tell me why Go, like, sell me on it. 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:01.260 Why is Go so awesome? 00:14:01.260 --> 00:14:06.920 He's like, I press a button, I compile it, I get a single binary I can give to anyone, and they can run it as long as they're on that platform. 00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:08.840 I'm like, yeah, that's a benefit. 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:13.280 That would be nice, wouldn't it, if there was a, like, Python space build option. 00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:14.700 So, very, very cool. 00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.740 But there's a lot of stuff coming and a lot of work being done on it. 00:14:17.740 --> 00:14:20.280 Like, we talked about PyOxidizer recently as well. 00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:21.240 Yeah. 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:21.540 Quite cool. 00:14:21.540 --> 00:14:22.080 Yeah. 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.540 One more thing before we move on, one of the things he brought up is Flit. 00:14:26.540 --> 00:14:29.400 Flit uses the new Toml style. 00:14:29.920 --> 00:14:35.520 The implementation of Flit is built on top of distutils and all that stuff also. 00:14:35.520 --> 00:14:40.320 And that's one of the things moving forward is some of these newer packaging tools. 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:50.520 If Python embraces some of the stuff and some of the changes, we'll be able to kind of simplify the maintenance of a lot of these extra things. 00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:54.900 Right, because they do a lot of work to piece it together and paper over the challenges, right? 00:14:54.900 --> 00:15:01.860 And if the underlying bits changed, it got easier, well, maybe it just, they just, you know, use the easier foundation, right? 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:02.060 Yep. 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:02.420 Nice. 00:15:02.780 --> 00:15:03.040 All right. 00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:05.380 Let me tell you about Datadog before we get to the next one. 00:15:05.380 --> 00:15:08.320 So Datadog has been a longtime sponsor of the show. 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:09.800 Super thanks. 00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:10.660 Big thanks to them. 00:15:10.660 --> 00:15:15.580 And they're a cloud monitoring platform built by engineers for engineers. 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:21.620 They're tracing client auto instruments, popular frameworks like Django, Flask, Tornado, and so on. 00:15:21.620 --> 00:15:30.200 So you can quickly visualize the flow of data across your application architecture, not just how's my Django app doing, but how is all my infrastructure and moving parts doing? 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:38.560 They also integrate with over 250 technologies like Hadoop and Redis, allowing you to pivot seamlessly between distributed request traces, metrics, and logs. 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:44.340 So check them out and get a free trial as well as a cool Datadog t-shirt over at pythonbytes.fm. 00:15:44.640 --> 00:15:46.200 Datadog really helps support the show. 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:46.480 Cool. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:46.740 Yeah. 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:50.040 Brian, I picked this one to be custom picked for you. 00:15:50.040 --> 00:15:53.180 Like you should, this was the one you could have chosen, but I got it today. 00:15:53.180 --> 00:15:53.940 I beat you to it. 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:54.220 Okay. 00:15:54.220 --> 00:15:54.580 All right. 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:58.320 So this one is a cheat sheet for mocking in Python. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:08.600 So mocking, not the insult, but the ability to change the behavior of some deep internal parts of your application without rewriting them. 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.400 Super powerful testing feature, right? 00:16:11.420 --> 00:16:21.920 If I want to test how my data access layer works, but I don't want it to actually touch the database, or I want to test how my credit card system works, but I don't really want it to talk to the, to Stripe or whatever. 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:29.060 I can mock out different parts of that and basically inject behavior into my app, right? 00:16:29.180 --> 00:16:29.420 Yes. 00:16:29.420 --> 00:16:30.040 Yep. 00:16:30.040 --> 00:16:32.740 So mocks are built into Python, right? 00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:33.720 That's great. 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.420 You can just import mock and start doing stuff with it. 00:16:36.740 --> 00:16:40.540 However, there's a lot of different ways in which you can do that. 00:16:40.540 --> 00:16:43.400 And there's also a lot of features. 00:16:43.400 --> 00:16:50.340 You could use mocks the way I describe them there, which I think is sort of making your test decoupled from your dependencies. 00:16:50.340 --> 00:16:57.880 But you can also say, I would like to kind of look inside the behavior and make sure certain parts of my app are using functions that I want. 00:16:57.880 --> 00:17:05.340 Like, for example, I could say, I'm going to call the login function or the access, let's say, admin part of my app. 00:17:05.340 --> 00:17:09.720 And I'm going to make sure that it's checking is admin on the user, right? 00:17:09.760 --> 00:17:16.480 Like, if it doesn't, if it talks to the admin section and it doesn't say, you know, test whether or not I have the permissions, something's badly wrong. 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.520 So you can even verify that things were called with like in a start called once and so on. 00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:28.320 So this is a nice write-up that takes you through all the different things you can do with mock and like quickly gives you examples for those various things. 00:17:28.320 --> 00:17:34.060 Like how to use a mock as a decorator, how to use it as a context manager and on and on and on. 00:17:34.060 --> 00:17:34.520 Great. 00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:34.840 Yeah. 00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:35.460 Nice. 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:35.720 Yeah. 00:17:36.080 --> 00:17:45.540 So all those folks out there who are testing or want to start testing, or even if you don't test because testing is too hard, you're like, well, all this stuff happens when I call this function. 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:46.580 How am I supposed to test it? 00:17:46.580 --> 00:17:47.620 Mock. 00:17:47.620 --> 00:17:48.240 Here you go. 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:49.380 Yeah. 00:17:49.380 --> 00:18:04.240 One of the things that's nice about having it not just completely tied with testing, although that's definitely where it's used a lot, is we can, like some applications that have like a, I don't know, a debug mode or some other mode that they're operating in. 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:11.800 You can even build it into your application to, you know, flip a bit or something and it turns some of the system off. 00:18:11.800 --> 00:18:16.040 So, and you can use mock for that if you don't want to build it other ways. 00:18:16.040 --> 00:18:17.060 Yeah, I guess you could, right? 00:18:17.060 --> 00:18:21.500 You could just, you could fire off the mock if you want the logging to do nothing, right? 00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:25.580 I'm going to create a mock that replaces this file behavior or whatever, right? 00:18:25.580 --> 00:18:37.360 Yeah, or if you wanted to like switch out for diagnosing software issues or debugging, you can switch out your database interface with some other database entry or something or whatever. 00:18:37.360 --> 00:18:38.020 Yeah. 00:18:38.020 --> 00:18:41.980 But I don't know if very many people do use it for that, but you could definitely. 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:42.520 Yeah. 00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:42.760 Yeah. 00:18:42.760 --> 00:18:43.120 Very cool. 00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:43.620 All right. 00:18:43.620 --> 00:18:43.900 Yeah. 00:18:43.900 --> 00:18:44.960 Mocking is super powerful. 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.020 What do you got next? 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:49.380 I have just an article about conference speaking. 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:53.340 So, Saron, and I'm not going to try to pronounce her last name. 00:18:53.340 --> 00:18:54.440 Do you know how to pronounce it? 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:55.060 Yit Barak. 00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:55.560 Sure. 00:18:55.560 --> 00:18:56.820 I'm going to go with Yit Barak. 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:57.180 Okay. 00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:00.980 I know her from the Coder Newbie or Code Newbie or something. 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:06.500 She does a podcast and she's been doing quite a bit in software to try to get more people involved with software. 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:08.860 And she's been doing a great job. 00:19:08.860 --> 00:19:15.960 But one of the things that she wrote recently was just talking about if you're giving a technical talk, just improving it. 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:22.900 And I love this because it's just a zero in on one little bit to try to make presentations better. 00:19:22.900 --> 00:19:26.780 The article is called Transitions, the Easiest Way to Improve Your Tech Talk. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:29.120 Improving how you speak. 00:19:29.120 --> 00:19:32.700 Public speaking is part of one of the things I work on personally. 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:40.320 So, I'm going to, before we get started, I'm going to grab a quote that I got read recently from Jeff Atwood from Coding Horror. 00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:47.640 He said, the people who can write and communicate effectively are all too often the only people who get heard. 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:49.860 They get to set the terms of the debate. 00:19:49.860 --> 00:19:53.320 And I think that definitely applies to public speaking as well. 00:19:53.320 --> 00:19:56.140 So, that's one of the reasons why I picked this up. 00:19:56.540 --> 00:20:06.580 But one of the things that, so, Saron mentioned is the typical way people will default to presenting something is they get, they put their stuff that they want to talk about on slides. 00:20:06.580 --> 00:20:09.780 And then they talk about whatever's on the first slide. 00:20:09.780 --> 00:20:15.780 And then when they get to the, and then they pause, click to the next slide, and then talk about the new topic. 00:20:16.260 --> 00:20:19.920 This is where the focus is of this article is to try to work on those transitions. 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.220 And it's a simple thing. 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.860 I think it would take practice. 00:20:24.860 --> 00:20:26.660 It's definitely something I'm going to practice. 00:20:26.860 --> 00:20:31.140 But as an example, she talks about transitioning from one slide to another. 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:36.240 Instead of pausing, you can have a sentence transition as well. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:43.560 So, you can, for instance, say, and that's why documentation is important, as we see on this slide. 00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:49.500 And span that sentence over transitioning from one slide to another. 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:56.440 And you can even time your clicking from one slide to the next and how you transition a sentence from one to the next. 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:57.920 This totally makes sense. 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:03.160 And we've been doing it in writing all the time, transition sentences in paragraphs. 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.520 And we get, we've been dinged on it throughout school. 00:21:06.520 --> 00:21:09.140 But somehow we forget to do it while talking. 00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:12.760 So, I just wanted to bring this up and highlight this article. 00:21:12.760 --> 00:21:13.800 I think this is great. 00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:15.700 It's such a good recommendation. 00:21:15.700 --> 00:21:27.360 And when I first started doing in-person training, you know, standing in front of, you know, 20 people giving technical training is highly nerve-wracking, especially when you're new to it. 00:21:28.020 --> 00:21:37.440 And it's easy to get derailed or try to, like, you kind of fall back to reading your slides, which is, like, really not very engaging for anybody. 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:45.820 So, the thing that I found was super helpful is if I could have one sentence that's engaging, like, this is how I'm going to start this slide. 00:21:45.820 --> 00:21:49.540 Everything is just downhill and, like, smooth from there. 00:21:49.540 --> 00:21:51.820 And this really seems to kind of capture that same idea. 00:21:51.820 --> 00:21:57.020 Like, every part of your presentation, if you can start it well and you feel good, like, yeah, this is going great. 00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:00.500 Like, you just, you have that natural momentum that just keeps going. 00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:05.660 But if you start it clumsily, it distracts you and it just goes downhill in the wrong way, right? 00:22:05.660 --> 00:22:08.740 So, this is actually a huge benefit, I think. 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:09.680 But it's so easy. 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:14.400 Like, can you have one sentence for each major concept in your presentation? 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.280 Like, it might be 10. 00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:16.680 Like, how hard is that, right? 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.980 It's not that hard. 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:18.900 But it's super valuable. 00:22:19.100 --> 00:22:19.280 Yeah. 00:22:19.280 --> 00:22:19.360 Yeah. 00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:27.560 And then, also, I think when I've been presenting before, I will take advantage of the end of the slide to take a little micro break. 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:29.720 And it's nice for me. 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:36.560 But it's kind of annoying for the viewer to sit there and watch nothing as the person transitions from one slide to another. 00:22:36.560 --> 00:22:45.760 But now there's, she brings up that there's definitely times where you really are transitioning ideas that it's perfectly fine to take that little break. 00:22:45.820 --> 00:22:49.980 It gives everybody a rest a little bit and you're moving on to a new topic. 00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:52.680 That's a great time to not talk while transitioning. 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:52.980 Yeah. 00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:54.220 Silence is important, too. 00:22:54.220 --> 00:22:54.920 Right? 00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:55.180 Yeah. 00:22:55.180 --> 00:22:59.720 Like, people too often think, I have to be absolutely continuously making noise. 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:00.460 Right? 00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:06.440 But, like, a few seconds of silence as a point sinks in or you are transitioning ideas, it's also really valuable. 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:06.740 Yeah. 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:07.280 Anyway. 00:23:07.280 --> 00:23:08.060 So, cool. 00:23:08.060 --> 00:23:08.280 Cool. 00:23:08.280 --> 00:23:08.740 Great pick. 00:23:09.100 --> 00:23:15.860 So, it's so cool that PEP582 is presented as an idea, but there's this problem. 00:23:15.860 --> 00:23:22.600 Like, since Guido has stepped down, there really hasn't been any way to even address these PEPs, right? 00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:26.360 Because how the decision-making happens, it's just been on hold, right? 00:23:26.360 --> 00:23:26.680 Yeah. 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:30.520 So, maybe that PyPackages thing is just going to be in limbo forever? 00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:31.960 No. 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.280 Finally, we have good news. 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:40.120 The final governance model for Python was chosen to be the steering council model. 00:23:40.120 --> 00:23:48.140 And the people who populate that council, the first steering counselors, I don't know if you call them that, but I'm calling them that. 00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:50.360 The first steering counselors have been elected. 00:23:50.360 --> 00:23:56.960 And so, our new technical leaders are Barry Warsaw, Brett Cannon, Carol Willing, Guido Van Rossum, and Nick Coghlan. 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:58.380 All great folks. 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:00.700 And congratulations to them. 00:24:00.760 --> 00:24:03.560 And this is news sent to me from Joe Carey. 00:24:03.560 --> 00:24:04.840 So, thanks, Joe, for sending that in. 00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:05.700 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:06.780 Good thing. 00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:07.660 Very good pick. 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:13.360 So, of course, there's tons of great people that would have been fine, but these are good sets. 00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:14.940 Yeah, I think it's a great set as well. 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:20.260 I think one of the things that's really cool here is we have Guido Van Rossum is not gone. 00:24:20.260 --> 00:24:21.980 He didn't just go like, you know what? 00:24:22.600 --> 00:24:24.520 I'm going to go do Go or whatever, right? 00:24:24.520 --> 00:24:27.200 He's still on the steering council. 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:28.680 He's still part of Python. 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:36.680 He just doesn't have to bear the brunt of all the friction of moving it forward on himself alone, right? 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:38.700 So, he's still part of this, which I think is great. 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:38.920 Yeah. 00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:40.400 Also, happy to see Carol Willing on there. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:41.060 That's really good. 00:24:41.060 --> 00:24:42.620 So, very, very good news. 00:24:42.620 --> 00:24:43.360 All right. 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:49.120 So, it looks like maybe stuff will start happening around Python, which is long overdue, actually. 00:24:49.120 --> 00:24:49.600 Yeah. 00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:53.780 They still have a lot to figure out, but we will report it when we hear more. 00:24:53.780 --> 00:24:58.920 There's a bunch of good things happening in the community, a bunch of good ideas being proposed, like this PEP we talked about at the opening. 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:05.740 And until this stuff gets finalized, it just literally cannot be addressed or any action can be taken. 00:25:05.740 --> 00:25:07.600 So, it's really good to see this taking place. 00:25:07.600 --> 00:25:07.860 Yeah. 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:08.120 All right. 00:25:08.120 --> 00:25:11.060 Well, Brian, that's it for our six main items. 00:25:11.060 --> 00:25:12.180 What else you got for us? 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:14.220 Well, I got interviewed recently. 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:18.140 So, I got interviewed for the IT Energizer podcast. 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:18.340 Right. 00:25:18.340 --> 00:25:19.120 With Phil Burgess. 00:25:19.120 --> 00:25:19.480 Yeah. 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:19.880 Yeah. 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:20.780 And you've been on there, too. 00:25:20.780 --> 00:25:25.860 So, we're going to drop a link to both of our interviews in the show notes, but mine's better. 00:25:25.860 --> 00:25:26.580 So, listen to mine. 00:25:26.580 --> 00:25:28.480 No, they're both good. 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:28.680 That's great. 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.760 I hadn't listened to yours yet. 00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:32.860 I knew you had been interviewed, but it hadn't been out yet. 00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:34.280 So, I'm looking forward to listening. 00:25:34.280 --> 00:25:34.600 Yeah. 00:25:34.600 --> 00:25:36.340 And then also, I'm sorry. 00:25:36.340 --> 00:25:41.880 I can't remember who sent this to us, but somebody mentioned to us that PyCon Latin America 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:46.640 is coming up in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico on August 29th. 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.520 And the call for proposals is open until May 31st. 00:25:50.520 --> 00:25:51.280 That sounds super. 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:54.400 It'd be great to go down there and spend some time where it's warm. 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.120 And it's in the summer, right? 00:25:56.120 --> 00:25:58.100 A lot of people have maybe a little more flexibility. 00:25:58.100 --> 00:25:58.620 Yeah. 00:25:58.760 --> 00:26:00.720 So, call proposals. 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:01.380 Get them out there. 00:26:01.380 --> 00:26:02.720 Get your talks in. 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:03.300 Plus, it's in Puerto Vallarta. 00:26:03.300 --> 00:26:03.980 We should go. 00:26:03.980 --> 00:26:04.980 Exactly. 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:08.040 We have to go do a live podcast recording because work. 00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:08.360 Yeah. 00:26:08.360 --> 00:26:11.880 But so, if somebody wants to sponsor us to go down there, that would be awesome. 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:12.160 Yeah. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:12.680 That would be great. 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.700 So, there's something wrong with this episode. 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:16.300 We haven't really fulfilled our duty. 00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.980 I don't think we've even mentioned Anthony Shaw yet on this show, have we? 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:24.280 I'm not sure how Anthony is part of this, but... 00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:25.220 He's so prolific. 00:26:25.220 --> 00:26:26.760 He seems to always have something we ground. 00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:26.940 Yeah. 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:27.960 Okay. 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:29.820 So, we've got our joke section. 00:26:29.820 --> 00:26:33.900 And you put a list on our database of show ideas. 00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:35.900 Is this list coming from Anthony? 00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:37.660 But it's not his list, is it? 00:26:37.660 --> 00:26:38.400 Or did he just tell you about it? 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.960 No, he just said, hey, Michael, you should check out, or hey, Python Bytes, you should 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:44.200 check out these jokes. 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.520 So, they're not his jokes. 00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:47.800 They're just transferred to us via him. 00:26:47.800 --> 00:26:48.120 Okay. 00:26:48.120 --> 00:26:49.640 I couldn't pick one, so I've got a few. 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:49.880 All right. 00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:50.120 Hit me. 00:26:50.120 --> 00:26:50.420 Okay. 00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:53.880 What's the second movie about a database engineer called? 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:54.840 The Migration. 00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:56.680 Oh, that would be good. 00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:58.700 No, the sequel, of course. 00:26:58.700 --> 00:26:59.560 Of course. 00:26:59.560 --> 00:27:01.360 The SQL sequel. 00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:01.920 I love it. 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:02.600 Perfect. 00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:03.140 All right. 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:05.080 These are like programming dad jokes. 00:27:05.080 --> 00:27:05.540 I love them. 00:27:05.540 --> 00:27:06.060 What's the next one? 00:27:06.060 --> 00:27:06.240 Yeah. 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:07.240 Programming dad jokes. 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:07.720 Okay. 00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:09.660 This one is not false. 00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:11.980 It's funny because it's true. 00:27:11.980 --> 00:27:14.300 Okay. 00:27:14.300 --> 00:27:16.700 These are bad. 00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:20.420 And this last one, I actually laughed out loud at this. 00:27:20.420 --> 00:27:25.560 So, a programmer's spouse tells them, would you run to the store and pick up a loaf of bread? 00:27:25.560 --> 00:27:27.100 If they have eggs, get a dozen. 00:27:27.100 --> 00:27:29.820 The programmer comes home with 12 loaves of bread. 00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:31.620 That's right. 00:27:31.620 --> 00:27:32.720 They must have had eggs. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.280 All right. 00:27:35.280 --> 00:27:35.840 These are great. 00:27:35.840 --> 00:27:36.300 These are great. 00:27:36.300 --> 00:27:37.460 Thanks for putting these in here. 00:27:37.760 --> 00:27:38.560 So, awesome. 00:27:38.560 --> 00:27:39.120 Very cool. 00:27:39.120 --> 00:27:43.780 Just for everybody that's annoyed with these jokes, we keep getting feedback from people that they like them. 00:27:43.780 --> 00:27:44.960 So, they're going to stay in there. 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:45.640 Yeah. 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:46.600 People seem to love them. 00:27:46.600 --> 00:27:48.040 Even if they're bad. 00:27:48.040 --> 00:27:50.540 Thanks. 00:27:50.540 --> 00:27:51.520 These are funny. 00:27:51.520 --> 00:27:51.720 Yeah. 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.820 Thanks for doing the episode. 00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:53.820 Talk to you next time. 00:27:53.820 --> 00:27:54.580 Talk to you next week. 00:27:54.580 --> 00:27:54.900 Bye. 00:27:54.900 --> 00:27:54.960 Bye. 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:55.000 Bye. 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:55.500 Bye. 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.940 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.460 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:02.340 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:05.760 And get the full show notes at pythonbytes.fm. 00:28:05.760 --> 00:28:07.560 If you have a news item you want featured, 00:28:07.560 --> 00:28:10.100 just visit pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:28:10.100 --> 00:28:12.820 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:14.980 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, 00:28:14.980 --> 00:28:16.200 this is Michael Kennedy. 00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.460 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast 00:28:18.460 --> 00:28:19.740 with your friends and colleagues.