WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.140 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.140 --> 00:00:10.200 your earbuds. This is episode 138, recorded July 3rd, 2019. I'm Michael Kennedy. And I'm Brian 00:00:10.200 --> 00:00:14.580 Okken. And this episode is brought to you by DigitalOcean. Check them out at pythonbytes.fm 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:19.560 slash DigitalOcean. More on that later. Brian, how you doing? I'm good. Been recording a lot. 00:00:19.560 --> 00:00:24.340 Yeah, recording a lot and trying to survive a work move, huh? Yeah, I'm not looking forward 00:00:24.340 --> 00:00:29.480 to half an hour drive. Yeah, a work move is like when you get to move and your commute changes, 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:33.840 but you don't get any say in it, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't know if people know, 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:39.180 but traffic in Portland and in the Northwest, it's rough, man. Yeah, but I mean, I lucked out. So for 00:00:39.180 --> 00:00:44.040 like nine years, I had a 10 minute commute. And I know a lot of people have worse commutes. Yeah, 00:00:44.040 --> 00:00:49.100 my commute is really rough. My studio area is like above my garage and the garage is detached. 00:00:49.100 --> 00:00:52.960 So I go across the sidewalk and periodically there's like a squirrel or something that will 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:57.940 startle me a little bit. And that's like a rough commute for me. Yeah, I'm just kidding. No one 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:01.800 should feel sorry for me on that regard. That's awesome. Nice. All right. Well, 00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:07.080 speaking of keeping everything like legit and keeping surprises out of it, that's probably where 00:01:07.080 --> 00:01:10.860 we should start, huh? Sure. You want to jump into the first item? Yeah, yeah. Flightgate, 00:01:10.860 --> 00:01:15.780 let's do it. Okay. I use Flightgate all the time. I actually put it on almost every project to make 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:21.120 sure that I'm just not doing something stupid. So it does a whole bunch of different, I think we've 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:25.740 talked about it before. But one of the things that I came across, this was submitted by Florian 00:01:25.740 --> 00:01:31.780 Dolitz, I think, is Flightgate Comprehensions, which is a plugin for Flightgate. You just install that 00:01:31.780 --> 00:01:36.940 also and it'll run automatically. People are used to list comprehensions, but there's a whole bunch of 00:01:36.940 --> 00:01:42.280 other things like dictionary comprehensions and things like that. Set comprehensions, yeah. Generator 00:01:42.280 --> 00:01:47.040 expressions, all these things, right? Yeah. There might be some old code that works fine, but maybe it 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:53.240 would be easier to read if it was changed. So this is just some static analysis for your code to 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:58.680 check different things to, you know, make your code look nicer. Awesome. Like some of the warnings are 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:03.920 unnecessary generator. Rewrite that as a list comprehension or unnecessary list comprehension. 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:09.120 Rewrite it as a dictionary comprehension and interesting stuff along those lines. So yeah, 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.860 that's pretty cool. I'm going to hook it into all my projects. I haven't tried it yet to see if it's 00:02:13.860 --> 00:02:18.480 helping me at all yet, but it looks like a fun thing to add. Yeah, there's some nice little 00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:26.320 cleanups here and I'm just kind of always amazed at how similar the comprehensions are, but how different 00:02:26.320 --> 00:02:31.540 the resulting outcome of them are. You know, especially with list comprehensions, square brackets, 00:02:31.540 --> 00:02:38.140 and generator expressions, parentheses. One is like this lazily evaluated generated expression that can 00:02:38.140 --> 00:02:42.460 be used once. The other is a list, right? But it's like you just round the edges a little bit on the 00:02:42.460 --> 00:02:48.120 symbol and that's it. Yeah. And I always forget that set comprehensions are a thing. So nice, 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:53.140 nice. Yeah. So these are great. I feel like these are in the category of Pythonic code that a lot of 00:02:53.140 --> 00:02:58.540 folks don't know about, don't use and so on. Right. They're like, well, in C++, what I would do is I 00:02:58.540 --> 00:03:03.680 would write a for loop. And so they have four in loops in Python. So I write that as like, actually, 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:06.800 we have these comprehensions too. You don't need that. So pretty cool. 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:14.100 Anytime I can move code reviews out of personal opinions and into a static analysis tool, it just 00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:19.040 makes the team smoother. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really interesting psychologically that people, 00:03:19.040 --> 00:03:23.700 developers respond differently to criticism from a robot than they do from a human. 00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:27.320 Yeah. I mean, it's like a compiler warning or something at that point. 00:03:27.320 --> 00:03:31.380 Exactly. It's like, well, CI says you got to do it. So we all agreed that this is how it's going to be. 00:03:31.380 --> 00:03:37.160 So we do it rather than like, well, that's the guy that's always picky and always says to rewrite 00:03:37.160 --> 00:03:40.720 my code and it's not Pythonic. I don't want to invite him to lunch anymore. 00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:46.000 It's like somebody will pick up the torch and be the one person that's always telling other people 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:51.060 that they're, they need to change their code because of style. And that just gets old. So yeah, 00:03:51.060 --> 00:03:56.720 let the computer do it. Exactly. And it's more consistent anyway, no matter how anal the person 00:03:56.720 --> 00:04:04.400 is the computer is more so. So this next item here is something that is near and dear to my heart. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:11.140 We've covered it before when it first came onto the scene, but it's now really ready to go. Now I 00:04:11.140 --> 00:04:15.960 want to just set the stage here that I think, you know, we've talked about this before. I can't remember 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:22.600 where, but we've spoken about before that basically, you know, Python's growth is incredible. We've talked 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:28.400 about that a bunch, but fast becoming one of the most popular languages, but there's really three areas in my 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:36.700 assessment where Python could be, you know, it's weak or it could be dethroned or it could in the words of 00:04:36.700 --> 00:04:45.340 Russell Keith-Magee actually be an existential threat to the longevity of Python. And those are a proper way to 00:04:45.340 --> 00:04:52.020 build mobile applications with Python. I know we have Kivy and we have some stuff from Russell stuff 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:57.720 as well. Right. But those are like sort of, well, we'll get it working. It's kind of proof of concept. 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.280 It's not like a visual designer drag and drop. Here's how you push this button to publish the app. So, 00:05:02.280 --> 00:05:07.880 right. Like there's not really a proper way to build mobile apps for Python. That's an existential threat. 00:05:07.960 --> 00:05:16.220 Number two is I would like something like the Slack app in Python. Build that. Yeah. Good luck with that. 00:05:16.220 --> 00:05:21.760 Right. Like probably not. So there are ways to do stuff like that, but it's always either like some 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:27.580 kind of kludge or it's, yeah, you can build it, but it's going to look like from 1994. Nobody wants that. 00:05:27.580 --> 00:05:28.980 I mean, Qt's pretty good. 00:05:28.980 --> 00:05:32.520 Qt is pretty good. Yeah. Qt is pretty good. I'm thinking, you know, TK Enter. It's like, 00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:36.860 it's definitely showing its age, right? For example. So yeah, those are great. And so like, 00:05:36.860 --> 00:05:40.860 GUI is probably the least existential threat of these, but it's very clear, 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:47.420 closely tied to this last one, which is sharing your application with end users. Somebody who doesn't 00:05:47.420 --> 00:05:51.080 care whether or not your program is written in Python, they would just want to run your program. 00:05:51.080 --> 00:05:55.280 How does that happen? Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a problem. And you, 00:05:55.280 --> 00:05:59.520 what was really interesting was there's a while ago I talked about Gita Van Rossen being interviewed 00:05:59.520 --> 00:06:06.160 on, I think it was the AI, the MIT's AI podcast. It was a super interesting interview and a lot of 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:11.080 great stuff that he said, I think they talked about it there with him. If it wasn't there, 00:06:11.080 --> 00:06:15.860 it was him being interviewed somewhere else. And basically they said, well, how do you feel about 00:06:15.860 --> 00:06:21.000 this deployment story? It doesn't seem like a weakness. And Gita's thought was, well, you can 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:26.580 really use a lot of the Linux package managers to solve a lot of these problems. Like if I want Python 00:06:26.580 --> 00:06:33.100 there, I can apt install Python three. If I need to get pip, I can apt install Python three dash pip 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:41.500 and so on. And it was very clear, like his whole thinking about what getting an application to a 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:48.080 user meant was getting it properly set up on a server or like a developer gets the tool set up on 00:06:48.080 --> 00:06:52.800 their Linux dev machine, which is all well and good. But you know, the most important thing is how do I 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:58.500 give an icon thing to a person on a Mac or on windows? They can double click and then their thing 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:03.160 runs. You know what I mean? Yeah, sure. Sure. I mean, for all the people that need a dev tool on 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:10.500 Linux, there are a hundred more, a hundred times more who need an application as an end user. You 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:15.100 know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. So if we want to get, if I want to get something like say, if I've created 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:21.600 some data science tooling and I want to give that to my team, I would like to say, here's like a DMG or 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.200 an MSI installer, you double click it and then you run. I don't care what version of Python you got 00:07:26.200 --> 00:07:30.180 set up or anything like that. Right? So I think that's the third problem is like, how do we get 00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:35.860 like end applications users? And the reason I think it's partly, it's kind of this chicken and egg 00:07:35.860 --> 00:07:40.880 problem. I feel like partly the reason it's not got a lot of attention in the Python space is because 00:07:40.880 --> 00:07:47.500 it's so bad. It's like so nearly impossible that people just generally don't do it. So there's like not a 00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:51.200 lot of demand for people creating those types of applications to get them out because it's like, 00:07:51.200 --> 00:07:55.660 why would you use Python for that? It's like, doesn't even make sense. Right? There's Pi installer, 00:07:55.660 --> 00:08:03.340 but it's also good, but it has some limitations. And so the thing I want to cover again is Pi oxidizer. 00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:10.840 And the reason is it's now officially released. It has its first release. And I had been watching the 00:08:10.840 --> 00:08:16.780 GitHub repository, you know, as like, you can say, go watch this repository. And my email just like blew up. 00:08:16.780 --> 00:08:20.700 Like I couldn't, I just go and like was constantly cleaning up like pull requests, 00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:26.060 issues, all this kind of stuff. Like people were just going crazy on their repository. 00:08:26.060 --> 00:08:26.600 Okay. 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.940 It's just got a ton of traction. So that's out. And I just want to kind of highlight some of the stuff. 00:08:31.940 --> 00:08:38.200 The guy who created it, gosh, Gregory created it. And he's done some awesome stuff. He wrote a really 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:42.820 nice article, which I'm linking to here. And it covers a lot of the reasons why you would want it. 00:08:43.420 --> 00:08:51.120 So at PyCon 2019, like I said, Russell Keith-Magee said, basically, this distribution problem is like 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:56.200 a potential black swan event for Python, right? 00:08:56.200 --> 00:08:58.560 I still don't know what that means, but sure. 00:08:58.560 --> 00:09:05.460 An unseen super negative thing coming out of the blue that's going to dramatically disrupt it somehow. 00:09:05.800 --> 00:09:09.680 I don't know if I would call it that. But I definitely think that distribution is like 00:09:09.680 --> 00:09:14.720 a reason people would not be using Python first term. I don't know if I see it as like this negative 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.200 sense, but I definitely see it as a, it could be so much more, right? 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.840 Yeah. I mean, Python's so great everywhere else. It'd be cool if it was great there too. 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:23.220 Exactly. Why is it not good there? 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:23.440 Yeah. 00:09:23.540 --> 00:09:27.940 Gregory said, basically, I'm going to create this project called PyOxidizer and it uses Rust 00:09:27.940 --> 00:09:35.640 to bundle up your Python code into an executable application. A .app thing on Mac, a .exe on 00:09:35.640 --> 00:09:42.140 Windows, and a statically linked binary executable on Linux. So it works on all the different platforms. 00:09:42.140 --> 00:09:48.180 And what's cool is it takes all the dependencies you have. So if you depend on say pandas or whatever, 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.780 right, it'll bundle that up. It bundles the version of Python that you build it against, 00:09:52.780 --> 00:09:56.620 right? So you're guaranteed you'll have 3.7 no matter what system you put it on, 00:09:56.620 --> 00:09:58.260 if you build it against 3.7. 00:09:58.260 --> 00:09:58.600 Okay. 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:04.080 And what's really interesting is the way it works is it builds a single executable and then 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.180 your Python code is loaded from bytecode in memory. 00:10:08.180 --> 00:10:08.680 Oh, wow. 00:10:08.680 --> 00:10:14.460 Right? So like it actually creates your Python files. It creates PYC files. So pre-computed 00:10:14.460 --> 00:10:23.380 PYC bytecode and then loads that out of memory. So it actually runs faster than if you ran the code, 00:10:23.380 --> 00:10:27.020 it starts faster than if you ran the code in regular Python. 00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:27.440 Okay. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:31.800 Some tools care about starting fast. Some don't, right? Like a website doesn't really care about 00:10:31.800 --> 00:10:33.900 starting fast. But a command line thing... 00:10:33.900 --> 00:10:36.320 If you're going to write an editor, you want it to just pop open. 00:10:36.400 --> 00:10:42.280 Exactly. So the other problem with the other ways in which this was done was they would basically 00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:47.520 zip up your Python code and maybe unzip it and then try to run it from there in memory thing. 00:10:47.520 --> 00:10:50.560 So you also kind of leaks your source code a little bit, right? 00:10:50.560 --> 00:10:51.320 Yeah, I guess so. 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:57.820 So if this is embedded as a binary, it's less obvious for people to go poking around that this 00:10:57.820 --> 00:11:02.640 is Python code that they can go read and mess with, right? Like technically, I know it still could 00:11:02.640 --> 00:11:07.020 be messed with. But it's not like, well, here's the directory of Python files. What is this doing 00:11:07.020 --> 00:11:11.200 in my applications route? You know what I mean? Let's go play with those, right? So this is pretty, 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.940 there's just a lot of interesting things here. The article that Gregory put out announcing it, 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:20.320 it's pretty broad and it's really compelling. So it seems like this project is really taking off. 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:25.880 I definitely think it would change the landscape if we had something like this legitimately working 00:11:25.880 --> 00:11:30.580 well across the board on all the OSes. I think it would actually drive people to build more 00:11:30.580 --> 00:11:36.420 GUI based apps because there would be a much more clear path on how to get those applications 00:11:36.420 --> 00:11:40.720 to end users, not just developers and developer tools and servers. 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:41.140 Yeah. 00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:44.960 Cool. Well, anyway, PyOxidizer, it seems to be catching fire and that's pretty awesome. 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:46.080 Yeah, it is cool. I like it. 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:47.320 All right, what you got? What's the next one? 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:53.280 Well, speaking of sharing code, one of the things that people do is not with end users, 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:58.900 but with just other developers is to take a script. You've got like just a, you know, 00:11:58.900 --> 00:12:04.180 you created a script, a little module or something, and it works on your machine. You want to share it 00:12:04.180 --> 00:12:09.940 with other people. Even that there's a little bit of a barrier between writing a simple script and 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:16.000 packaging it up properly and getting that running. So it's one of the things I'm actually working on a 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:21.980 write-up, trying to do a write-up of all that with experimenting using it with using Flit and pytest 00:12:21.980 --> 00:12:28.120 and Tox and Coverage to make sure it's well tested and structured well and all of that. 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:33.000 That's cool. Because you were, before you were sort of a fan of creating a source directory for your 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:37.240 packages and, but that ran into trouble with like Flit, right? Or some Flit or Tox? 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:42.000 That's the thing. With Coverage, you want to be able to, I want to be able to test or run against 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:48.540 the installed version, not the local version. So I want to do all of the packaging, install it into 00:12:48.540 --> 00:12:54.700 an environment, and then run the test against that. And that was hard to do. I thought it was hard to 00:12:54.700 --> 00:13:01.120 do. And a lot of people were recommending using an intermediate source directory to hide the local 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:06.720 code from Tox and from, well, not really from Tox, but from Coverage and pytest so that you were 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:12.340 really loading the installed one. I didn't know there was a thing here. And I'm highlighting 00:13:12.340 --> 00:13:18.020 a feature of Tox that's called ChangeDir. And it's really simple. You just put this in your test 00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:24.600 environment lines in Tox, in your ToxAny file, and just say, change the directory to like my test 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:29.740 directory. And then, voila, you can't see the top level source code anymore. 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:30.440 Oh, that's cool. 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:35.540 Problem solved. So I've got a longer explanation. I'm going to talk about this on, 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:40.140 I have on episode 80 of Test and Code, which will be out by the time this is out. 00:13:40.140 --> 00:13:45.440 But I was amused because I'm walking through an example. And I'm trying all these things to make 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:51.020 sure they work. And the example project I built was a markdown converter using regular expressions. 00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:56.740 And I thought this was really funny because of the news that came out recently that Cloudflare 00:13:56.740 --> 00:13:59.420 went down because of a regular expression. 00:13:59.420 --> 00:14:05.800 A single regular expression. And Cloudflare is like the intermediary to so many applications 00:14:05.800 --> 00:14:07.340 out there. That's bad. 00:14:07.340 --> 00:14:13.240 Big chunk of the internet not working because Cloudflare was pegged on one regular expression. 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:16.820 I don't even know how to do that. I don't know how to make a regular expression that... 00:14:16.820 --> 00:14:21.720 I do simple regular expressions. So I don't know how to do something that's quadratic in 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:23.740 nature. But I thought it was funny. 00:14:23.740 --> 00:14:27.400 Mine tell me they're not working right away. But they say that too frequently. 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:28.360 Yeah. 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:31.140 Why is this not finding the match? Oh, well. 00:14:31.140 --> 00:14:34.860 Since I thought that was... I was using regular expressions and I thought it was funny that 00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:40.160 somebody else reminded me of that Mel Brooks quote that it's tragedy when it happens to me. 00:14:40.160 --> 00:14:45.000 It's comedy when it happens to you. So I'm laughing at Cloudflare, but I wouldn't be laughing 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.060 if I was working there. 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:51.520 Yeah. If your pager was going off at three in the morning, the humor would be entirely sucked 00:14:51.520 --> 00:14:53.340 out of that situation. Yeah, that's rough. 00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:53.660 Yeah. 00:14:53.660 --> 00:14:57.160 Before we get on to the next one, let me just tell you all about Digital Ocean. I try to highlight 00:14:57.160 --> 00:15:01.420 one of the features of what they've got going on. Like I said, many times our infrastructure 00:15:01.420 --> 00:15:07.380 runs on Digital Ocean and they do a great job. So one of the things you might not want to deal 00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:11.620 with is setting up a Postgres server, backing it up, setting up the right scaling infrastructure 00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:17.280 and all that. So Digital Ocean has this great feature where you can get a managed Postgres database 00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:21.560 as a service, which solves a whole bunch of problems like figuring out what the optimal 00:15:21.560 --> 00:15:26.820 database infrastructure footprint is or scaling it as your app grows or 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:31.780 creating highly available and failover infrastructure, all that kind of stuff you want, 00:15:31.780 --> 00:15:36.780 but you don't want to deal with it or deal with like when the pager goes off because it stopped 00:15:36.780 --> 00:15:42.160 replicating or it wouldn't scale or whatever. Just go to Digital Ocean and check the box to get your 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:47.780 managed Postgres database and let them deal with it all. So that's really nice. Runs right there in 00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:51.940 that data center. So you're all good. Check them out at pythonbytes.fm/Digital Ocean. 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:56.420 They're big supporters of the show and highly recommended. All right. So this next one, Brian, 00:15:56.420 --> 00:16:01.720 I think has some pretty interesting possibilities and maybe ties back to my item that I spoke about 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:07.520 before creating like a new type of apps or opportunities for more apps. Now it used to be if you wanted to 00:16:07.520 --> 00:16:12.760 have some kind of communication, you'd have to go install like weird plugins into your browser. 00:16:13.300 --> 00:16:19.360 So you could do, I don't know, some kind of real time chat or video communication. But recently, 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.900 these things have just been working all on their own, right? Things like Zencaster and whatnot. 00:16:23.900 --> 00:16:29.220 Now it could just do like live communication in the browser. And that's because of WebRTC and ORTC. 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:36.420 The Web Real Time Communication is an open project that provides browsers and mobile apps real time 00:16:36.420 --> 00:16:44.200 communication. And then the open ORTC one is basically a similar style of communication. 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:44.600 Okay. 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:51.420 The item I want to talk about is this implementation for Python that uses asyncio. So you can write 00:16:51.420 --> 00:16:57.880 Python applications that then communicate with other things like browsers or mobile apps and whatnot 00:16:57.880 --> 00:16:59.180 that use WebRTC. 00:16:59.180 --> 00:16:59.720 Oh, cool. 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:06.260 Yeah. So it's called AIO RTC. AIO is for asyncio and then RTC, well, you know, for the protocol. 00:17:06.260 --> 00:17:12.240 So it's pretty cool. It follows pretty close to the JavaScript counterpart, which is how you would do 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:18.260 it in the web. But it uses a lot of Pythonic constructs like the popular JavaScript ones use promises. 00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:26.300 So this AIO RTC uses coroutines, which is cool. And events are emitted using the PyEventMeter, 00:17:26.300 --> 00:17:31.160 which is all good. The main ones, like the main one is if you want to explore these communication 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:36.260 protocols are all baked into the browsers and they come in native code. But if you want to explore like 00:17:36.260 --> 00:17:41.700 a more understandable version, a more hackable version, this one is all just in Python, which is 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:46.000 pretty cool for understanding how it works. They also talk about some of the kinds of apps you could 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:51.820 build, right? So like you can create some new things in the Python ecosystem. For example, you could 00:17:51.820 --> 00:17:57.980 build a server handling both signaling and data channels and apply like computer vision to the 00:17:57.980 --> 00:18:01.320 video frames using OpenCV like in real time or something cool like that. 00:18:01.320 --> 00:18:01.960 Oh, that'd be neat. 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:06.360 Yeah. So people doing fun stuff with video communications. If you want to write a Python 00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:11.700 application that can participate in that and you want it to be nice and modern using async and await and 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:15.260 asyncio, well, this is a pretty cool AIO RTC. 00:18:15.260 --> 00:18:15.780 Yeah. 00:18:15.780 --> 00:18:18.760 Yeah. Speaking of communications, you got another one, right? 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:23.720 This was a listener's suggestion and I can't remember who submitted it, but I think it's, 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.620 and they even have the, it's called a prize. I think that's how you pronounce it. Is that right? 00:18:27.620 --> 00:18:34.040 A prize. Yes. To inform or to tell someone, to make one aware of something. They've apprised me of 00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:36.800 the situation. Really? Yes. Okay. Carry on. Sorry. 00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:37.460 Okay. 00:18:37.460 --> 00:18:45.160 So a prize is for push notifications and their tagline was push notifications that work on just about every 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:50.580 platform. It's kind of a shim layer to put between your app and multiple notification services. 00:18:50.580 --> 00:18:57.600 So it sends notifications to things like, Telegram. They say Telegram push bullet. Never 00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:03.520 heard of either of those Slack and Twitter. Yes, I have heard of those, but also things like a discord, 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:11.460 getter mail gun matter. Most Microsoft teams, even sending SMSs through Twilio or Nexmo that's 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:17.620 supported email notifications supported for that. Some things that are, you want to just email people, 00:19:17.620 --> 00:19:21.700 but if your server's on fire, you might want to send an SMS to somebody. 00:19:21.700 --> 00:19:23.380 Yeah, that's cool. It's really cool. 00:19:23.380 --> 00:19:27.280 It looks pretty neat. The API looks nice. It looks like it'd be pleasant to work with. 00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:30.320 So I think this is a good one to highlight. It looks neat. 00:19:30.320 --> 00:19:34.380 Yeah. Some of the stuff that stood out to me is Growl and Windows notifications. 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:35.980 Do you know what Growl is? 00:19:36.080 --> 00:19:40.440 So Growl is, I don't know if this is the way it still works in macOS, but you know, 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.620 the little toast notifications that come up in the top right in macOS? 00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:44.320 Oh yeah. Yeah. 00:19:44.320 --> 00:19:45.280 Yeah. Growl does that. 00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:45.700 Oh, okay. 00:19:45.700 --> 00:19:49.400 But you might have to have a little daemon installed. I can't remember if it natively 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:54.600 talks to Mac. I don't think so. I think Growl is like before that was built into the OS, 00:19:54.600 --> 00:19:58.480 but basically it does that. And then Windows notifications like similarly, but instead of 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.100 being the top right, they're in the bottom, right? So they're not at all the same thing. 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:05.700 And it also supposedly supports matrix. So I don't know if that texts Keanu Reeves or 00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:06.920 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:11.360 I know Kung Fu. Okay. Sorry. 00:20:11.360 --> 00:20:17.480 Yeah. No, this is really cool. If you've got to communicate with Gitter, if this, then that, 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:22.540 all those different things, you know, Cisco teams, Microsoft teams, all those, rather than 00:20:22.540 --> 00:20:28.140 integrate with all of their APIs or Twilio or whatever, just like bring this in as like a 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:29.680 facade over all that. It's great. 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:34.660 Yeah. So this last thing I want to talk about is a new web framework. And I feel like the web 00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:42.360 in Python is getting really interesting and also a little more hard to choose the right thing to do 00:20:42.360 --> 00:20:47.140 because it used to be, oh, Django Flask. There's Pyramid also. I like Pyramid. And there's, 00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:51.760 there's a few others. There was Cherry Pie that's not used that much anymore. So I guess I'll choose 00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:55.100 between those three, right? Like that was kind of like the end of the thought, but now there's like 00:20:55.100 --> 00:20:59.500 hundreds like of little things, right? There's black sheep that we talked about. There's mace 00:20:59.500 --> 00:21:05.980 tonight and there's Jepronto and there's, well, there's WebSana as well. So WebSana is a new 00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:10.980 framework. And I think it's super interesting because it, you know, it kind of brings some 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:19.720 more beginner friendliness or CMS friendliness to some of the micro framework story. So we've got 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:24.960 another way you might break up the web framework thinking process as well as I want an app that's 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.660 kind of like, I've got to work the way it works, but I can block in the, I can like slot in these 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:34.720 big blocks and have stuff I want like Django. So like I can have an admin backend where I just like 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:41.340 have like an Excel, like view of my database if I want that, for example. Right. But if you want to 00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:45.240 not work the way Django works, well, too bad you work the way Django works. That's how you use Django. 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.420 Right. On the other hand, you could use Flask or Pyramid where it's kind of like, well, here's how 00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:55.800 you process a request. Whatever else you do, that's on you. Right. It's up to you. So a lot of people 00:21:55.800 --> 00:22:00.400 kind of like that more fine grained stuff like, well, I think I'll use SQLAlchemy here and I'm going to 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.640 use like this for managing passwords. And here's how I do my users and email and all that. Right. You get 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:08.780 to choose all those little bits, but then you got to choose all the bits and build with it and so on. 00:22:08.780 --> 00:22:17.080 So this WebSona framework is built on Pyramid, SQLAlchemy, and obviously Python 3, but it adds a lot 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:23.820 of the features people might choose Django for, but in like a super modern and cool way. So I really, 00:22:23.820 --> 00:22:28.940 really like it. Their description is WebSona is a full snack Python web framework for building web 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:34.960 services and back offices with admin interfaces and user signup processes. That's good. Yeah. So it says, 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:39.300 well, they say, well, when should you use it? Well, it's focused on internet facing sites when 00:22:39.300 --> 00:22:44.840 you have a public or private signup process and an admin interface face. And the sweet spot includes 00:22:44.840 --> 00:22:49.860 custom business portals, software as a service products, which are too specialized for off the 00:22:49.860 --> 00:22:55.960 shelf solutions, read WordPress, Squarespace, like all these things you're like, oh, you could use that. 00:22:55.960 --> 00:23:00.400 Well, for like 80%, you could use that. Then, then what, then where do you go? Right. So WebSona can 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:04.440 now be a place that you might go for that. Cool. This might be take off. Yeah, I think it really 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:10.760 good. And so they talk about, they're focused on like core business logic. So you can, you know, 00:23:10.760 --> 00:23:15.160 they build all, have all the building blocks. Like you want to sign up with Google with your Gmail. 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.660 Yeah. You just like put that in there and it just, now you can sign up for the, your app with Gmail. 00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:24.240 It's nice. You can get started real easy. Lots of docs. Yeah. It's just all about being productive. 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.740 So they have a whole bunch of infrastructure built up and just like kind of fill in the pieces. 00:23:28.260 --> 00:23:34.800 It's a little more Django-esque, but then like raw pyramid is, but it's kind of nice that you have 00:23:34.800 --> 00:23:40.580 this blended option. So I think it's looks really promising. They have a lot of cool things like 00:23:40.580 --> 00:23:47.020 asynchronous task processing and other stuff like that, that really makes it feel like pretty modern 00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:52.540 and cool. Yeah, definitely. Yep. It looks like it's tested using pytest also. Yeah. It's tested using 00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:58.000 pytest. It's deployed using Ansible. Let's see what else. There's a couple of things like, 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:03.840 yeah, that is super cool. It automatically comes with the top OWASP top 10 security vulnerabilities 00:24:03.840 --> 00:24:08.960 limit, like restricted. So like they figure out what are like the top 10 reasons websites have 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:13.200 security problems and they built into the infrastructure by default to block all those 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:17.660 like cross-site scripting and whatnot. They have asynchrony built in and they even comes, 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:24.920 it even has a IPython notebook shell. So instead of just having like a grid view of admin stuff, 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.860 I can type in, they're like, oh, well, if you need to do admin tasks, like log in and just fire up, 00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:34.120 you know, Jupyter on the backend and just start like manage it like that way. Right. So that's like, 00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:39.840 all right. So it's like a web shell to your, your server, keep that super locked down, but you know, 00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:43.940 still pretty awesome. So there's a bunch of like really interesting ideas here that I think are 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:48.500 quite cool. The documentation is pretty thorough. It even includes like, okay, once you get this 00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:53.160 stuff working, how do you deploy it somewhere? Yeah, exactly. This is quite new, but it also 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.140 looks really promising to me and I hope it, I hope it takes off because I feel like this is like a 00:24:57.140 --> 00:25:02.940 really nice modern take on what a modern Python web app framework should look like. Yeah, cool. 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:07.740 All right. Well, that's it for our main topics. Brian, you got something you want to share with us 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:12.460 just quickly at the end. Yeah, I was going to mention, so I did, we mentioned in my move, 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:19.000 the move at work has been caused my schedule to be crazy. And I don't know when to interview people. 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:24.240 If you've been paying attention to testing code, the episodes have been kind of solo episodes lately 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.600 because I don't have to schedule myself. It's just whenever I can do it. And later on in July, 00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:34.560 things should settle down. And so if I've bugged you to do an interview or you've asked me 00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:39.220 and I haven't gotten back to you, get back to me again and we'll schedule that. So that should go 00:25:39.220 --> 00:25:42.800 on. Yeah, right on. You're doing a great job with testing code. There's a lot of stuff been coming 00:25:42.800 --> 00:25:47.800 out nice and steady and a lot of good shows there. All right. Thanks. How about you? Well, 00:25:47.800 --> 00:25:51.880 I just released another course that I've been working on for a couple of months on and off, 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:56.560 and it's called Building Data-Driven Web Applications with Flask and SQLAlchemy, 00:25:56.560 --> 00:26:01.320 speaking of micro frameworks. So I had a similar course on Pyramid and a lot of people said, 00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:06.200 hey, Pyramid's awesome, but we really need to know Flask because that's what we use our 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:10.360 company or that's what I'm trying to understand for a job or whatever. So I'm like, all right, 00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:15.660 well, let me go and build the Flask version of this course. So basically the idea is we spend about 00:26:15.660 --> 00:26:21.080 10 hours recreating PyPI.org from the ground up with Flask and SQLAlchemy. 00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:24.100 Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I'm going to have to check that out too. 00:26:24.100 --> 00:26:28.400 Yeah, absolutely. So people can check that out. Links from the show notes are just training.talkpython.fm. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:33.040 That's the latest course. And you know, no time to rest. As soon as we're done recording here, 00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:37.320 it's time to start the next, continue on the next one I'm working on. So I'm really excited to have 00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:41.280 this out. I think a lot of people will appreciate it. And it was really fun to write because you got 00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:43.760 to explore like a lot of these ideas we were just kind of just talking about. 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:46.720 Yeah. I'll be hopefully working on a course here pretty soon too. 00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:51.020 I'm very excited about that. Yeah. I'm not really sure we're ready to share what the topic is yet, 00:26:51.020 --> 00:26:53.420 but it's going to be in high demand and very popular. 00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:57.900 Yeah. I'm looking forward to it. Yeah. Complete secret. Nobody will know what it is until it shows 00:26:57.900 --> 00:27:01.100 up. Yeah. Computer vision, IoT probably, but I'm not going to... 00:27:01.100 --> 00:27:05.560 Yeah, maybe. Yeah, sure. 00:27:05.560 --> 00:27:07.780 Or something else. Probably. 00:27:07.780 --> 00:27:13.060 Yeah. So speaking of jokes and sarcasm, a SQL query goes into a bar, 00:27:13.060 --> 00:27:15.740 walks up to two tables and asks, can I join you? 00:27:15.740 --> 00:27:19.100 I really like that. 00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:21.560 Yeah, it's pretty bad, but... 00:27:21.560 --> 00:27:22.060 That's good. 00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:22.880 It's a good one. 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:29.040 Yeah. So I don't have a joke, but I saw this on Twitter and I tracked up. 00:27:29.040 --> 00:27:30.180 I did watch this. Yes. 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:34.200 The reset procedure from GE light bulbs. It's so funny. 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.960 These are smart, in quotes, smart light bulbs. 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:37.300 Yeah. 00:27:37.300 --> 00:27:43.280 And you may have like paired them to your device, but then you lost your phone or you gave the 00:27:43.280 --> 00:27:47.280 light bulbs to your friend. You're like, well, how do I reset my light bulb? Right? 00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:52.140 Yeah. Because you can't just like turn it off and turn it on because that's what light bulbs do. So 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:57.080 you have to do something else. And this procedure that they've got is hilarious. And it's like, 00:27:57.080 --> 00:28:01.840 turn it off for five seconds, then on for eight seconds, then off for two seconds, 00:28:01.840 --> 00:28:05.600 then on for eight seconds. And if you go through this like five times... 00:28:05.600 --> 00:28:09.380 It goes on and on because like, what if somebody accidentally turns it off for five seconds, 00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:13.860 on for two seconds, on for eight seconds, then off for eight seconds, but didn't mean to reset 00:28:13.860 --> 00:28:19.260 their bulb. You got to do like three more rounds of that. It's insane. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. You will 00:28:19.260 --> 00:28:20.360 link to the video for that. 00:28:20.360 --> 00:28:26.040 At the end, it's like, if that didn't work, maybe it's an old firmware version. Try this other, 00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:27.400 even worse procedure. 00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:34.360 Awesome user interface experience. So I love it. What do you do when like the only interface you 00:28:34.360 --> 00:28:39.740 have is like power on power off? This apparently is it. Yeah. But the register like noted that you 00:28:39.740 --> 00:28:45.820 could put a hole in it and people could poke it with a like clothespin or whatever. Oh, you mean like 00:28:45.820 --> 00:28:51.740 my router and like all these other normal pieces of technology? Yeah. The reset button. Exactly. 00:28:51.740 --> 00:28:57.400 Yeah. Maybe they don't want people poking metal things into bulbs because it's like too close to 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:03.380 poking it right to the socket. Because people are always poking metal into light sockets. Yeah. 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:10.020 Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, yeah, people can go check this out and it's intended to be 00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:13.760 serious, but it's actually kind of funny. Yep. All right. Well, thanks a lot, Michael. 00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:15.240 You bet. Thanks for being here. See you. Bye. 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:20.040 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. That's 00:29:20.040 --> 00:29:25.720 Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. And get the full show notes at pythonbytes.fm. 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.940 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:29:29.940 --> 00:29:34.540 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, 00:29:34.540 --> 00:29:38.880 this is Michael Kennedy. Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and