WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.640 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:11.760 your earbuds. This is episode 169, recorded February 12th, 2020. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:13.000 And I am Brian Okken. 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:17.960 And this episode is brought to you by Datadog. Check them out over at pythonbytes.fm slash 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:22.580 Datadog. Get a cool t-shirt for just giving a little trial, installing them and checking it out. 00:00:22.580 --> 00:00:25.820 Brian, I love a good story. You got a tale to tell us? 00:00:26.020 --> 00:00:33.880 Well, yeah, I've got a detail. So this was a suggestion on Twitter by, oh gosh, David Douglas 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.080 something? Maybe David Douglas Smith? How do you think you pronounce that? 00:00:38.080 --> 00:00:42.760 David Douglas Smith. That's what I'm going with. If you can trust the Twitter name to be the real name. 00:00:42.760 --> 00:00:49.240 Yeah, right. This is a little tool, which is pretty darn cool. Detail. This is a quote from their site. 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:55.400 A combination of a Flask backend and a React frontend to bring you an easy way to view and 00:00:55.400 --> 00:01:01.160 analyze pandas data structures. It integrates seamlessly with IPython notebooks and Python 00:01:01.160 --> 00:01:07.600 IPython terminals. Currently, this tool supports such pandas objects as data frames, series, multi-index, 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:14.460 date time index, and range index. Okay. So there's a live demo on the, in the linked from the readme. 00:01:14.460 --> 00:01:19.220 And you can go to that and there's a little arrow on the top left. So you end up with something that 00:01:19.220 --> 00:01:24.720 looks like a spreadsheet, whole thing. But in the demo, you, if you click on the little play button, 00:01:24.780 --> 00:01:30.160 there's a whole bunch of different tools that pop up. One of them, like even just the describe button, 00:01:30.160 --> 00:01:36.840 if you'd click that, you can select different columns and it gives you statistics and a little 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:43.680 graph of what the, what data is in there and top 100 values that are in there. That's even cool enough, 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:48.840 but that's just a start. This tool also gives you, you can filter your data, do correlations, 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:54.540 charts, heat maps, just all looking at a data frame through this user interface. It's pretty cool. 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:58.860 Yeah. That's super cool. When I first saw this, I wasn't sure what to make of it. And playing with 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:03.340 live demo really is the way to check it out, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, after playing at the 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:08.800 demo a little bit and then going back to the readme with all of the information, there's just so 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:13.260 much that you can do with this thing and it's all open source. So you can run it on your own servers 00:02:13.260 --> 00:02:17.620 or whatever, but it's cool. I like the idea of having a live demo linkable. 00:02:17.760 --> 00:02:21.080 Yeah. I do too. It's, it's makes it real and it's, it's a really cool, 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:26.440 smooth, interactive framework for visualizing data. I like it a lot. I really, I think it's like, 00:02:26.440 --> 00:02:30.880 if I did more with Panda data frames, I'd be all over this. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Speaking of the data 00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:37.820 science side of things, there's a pretty cool project that just came out called carnets. Have you 00:02:37.820 --> 00:02:38.260 heard this? 00:02:38.260 --> 00:02:40.300 Not until you listed it, but I'm pretty excited. 00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:45.260 Oh man, it's pretty awesome. I actually learned about this at PyCascades. We were hanging out 00:02:45.260 --> 00:02:50.080 there with some folks and somebody sent this in to me over emails that, Hey, check this out or over 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:55.320 Twitter or something like that. And yeah, everyone was uniformly impressed and thought this was quite 00:02:55.320 --> 00:03:00.540 cool. So you probably heard of Pythonista and Pythonista is a, not a description of a person who 00:03:00.540 --> 00:03:07.700 likes Python, but Pythonista being the app in the app store that is kind, lets you do like automation 00:03:07.700 --> 00:03:12.440 and stuff with Python on your iOS device. Okay. Okay. So what was cool about that is like, 00:03:12.440 --> 00:03:17.500 you can write and run Python on your iPhone or on your iPad natively, which is pretty awesome. 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:24.480 This is kind of like that, but in that it runs Python natively, but this is Jupyter notebooks 00:03:24.480 --> 00:03:30.660 on your phone or maybe more importantly on your tablet, like on your iPad. 00:03:30.660 --> 00:03:34.240 Yeah. This is pretty slick. I can't wait to try this out. 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:40.060 Yeah. And it's, it's super, super smooth. So what's obviously these days there's options 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:46.100 for running and writing Python through your iPad. If like that's like that differentiation 00:03:46.100 --> 00:03:53.940 makes sense. We can use Visual Studio Code online, which will just basically put the front end 00:03:53.940 --> 00:03:58.740 into a web browser and then it runs somewhere on Linux and Azure, or there's some other ones 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:07.560 like coder.com and whatnot. But this is no internet required running Jupyter notebooks locally. And it has 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:15.440 built in IPI packages, NumPy, MapPlotlib, SciPy, and Pandas, and it's Pandas already installed. So you 00:04:15.440 --> 00:04:19.440 don't have to install them or anything. So it's not just, Oh, here's a thing you can run Python. Like 00:04:19.440 --> 00:04:24.880 there's even some of these C based packages that you might need already installed, which is great. 00:04:24.880 --> 00:04:31.920 Yeah. It really looks really clean too. Yeah, for sure. And it also has file sharing ability. So 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:37.180 you could like share your stuff through iCloud, right? So you save your notebooks there, edit them 00:04:37.180 --> 00:04:43.860 somewhere else, pick them back up again over there. You can import IPYNB files or whatever the Jupyter 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:50.520 extension is. Yeah. So it's really quite neat. And it looks like a proper Jupyter app running over 00:04:50.520 --> 00:04:55.820 there. I think it's great. I'm impressed. It also extends the keyboard on iPad to give you a couple 00:04:55.820 --> 00:05:02.540 of actions, some hotkeys or like, sort of, I guess, like the Mac touch bar, sort of. That's pretty cool. 00:05:02.540 --> 00:05:08.640 One different thing from Pythonista is Pythonista, I believe you have to pay for on the App Store. 00:05:08.640 --> 00:05:13.060 This one is open source and free. So just go click install and you have it. 00:05:13.060 --> 00:05:15.900 And you can pip install stuff. I don't even know how that works. 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.180 Yeah. It's amazing. It's awesome. There's a restriction on the pip install stuff. So with 00:05:20.180 --> 00:05:26.240 Jupyter, you can say percent pip install a thing or whatever, issue that to the shell. But this one, 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:31.880 you can do that as long as the thing you're pip installing is pure Python. It doesn't have like a 00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:35.120 C compiler or something like that in your phone. Well, that makes sense. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.240 Yeah. Yeah. Isn't this cool though? Yeah. It's very neat. I got to try this out. 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.120 Yeah. I definitely want to put it on my iPad and check it out. And it has a separate dedicated iPad 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:47.080 app that's slightly different, which is nice. Honestly, like a lot of times you can kind of 00:05:47.080 --> 00:05:51.200 get away with the both the same app or it's not really that big of a difference, but this is the 00:05:51.200 --> 00:05:57.160 kind of thing where it's most relevant on iPad or like a larger device. And then it just happens to 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:01.100 also work on the phone is the way I would see it. I wouldn't really want to develop on my phone. 00:06:01.100 --> 00:06:05.580 I don't know. Doesn't seem great. Right. Harder to hook an external keyboard to your phone and 00:06:05.580 --> 00:06:09.320 whatnot as opposed to an iPad. But yeah, this is really cool. People should check this out and it's 00:06:09.320 --> 00:06:13.380 open source. People can go download it and play with it and whatnot. Speaking of really cool, 00:06:13.380 --> 00:06:18.260 Datadog is pretty cool. They're doing really good stuff, supporting the show as they have been for a 00:06:18.260 --> 00:06:23.280 long time. So they're a cloud scale monitoring platform that unifies metrics, logs, and traces. 00:06:23.280 --> 00:06:29.020 If you've ever wondered what's going on in your app, you know, you can watch one log or another or look 00:06:29.020 --> 00:06:33.120 at the performance of one part or another, but it's hard to put that all together in an overall 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.740 request. Well, Datadog is what you want to put all those pieces together. 00:06:36.900 --> 00:06:41.040 So you can trace requests across service boundaries and that sort of stuff. And they're 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:46.160 tracing client auto instruments, popular frameworks like Django, AsyncIO, and Flask. So you can quickly 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:51.360 see the health and performance of your Python app. Get started today with a 14-day free trial 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:56.920 and a complimentary free t-shirt with a cute little dog on it over at pythonbytes.fm/Datadog. 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:01.420 Wonderful. Thanks, Datadog. Yeah. Thank you, Datadog. Brian, you spent some time on a podium not long 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:05.400 ago, didn't you? Yeah, just this last Sunday. Or I mean like, you know, a Sunday ago, 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:12.320 depending on time travel. So yes, and this actually came from PyCascades. I got this suggestion from 00:07:12.320 --> 00:07:18.920 Katie McLaughlin. I did my talk using, there's a lot of people that use HTML5-based presentation 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:25.940 frameworks. And that's what I was using. I was using remark.js. I chose it because I like Markdown. 00:07:26.440 --> 00:07:31.840 And so I can write my slides in Markdown and then present it. But there was difficulty. So I, 00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:38.580 in order to get this all to work, maybe some people know some other secrets to it, but I had to go in a 00:07:38.580 --> 00:07:47.120 little early and then like go into the extended display mode so that I can drag the version of the 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:53.340 presentation that's going to be on the display. Drag that web browser window into the other window 00:07:53.340 --> 00:07:59.080 that's on the display and then maximize it. But I'm not in front of it. So I got to like use the mouse to 00:07:59.080 --> 00:08:04.160 try to go to the maximize button. And then on the other, my laptop display, I have my presenter notes 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:09.240 and timer and stuff. And it actually worked really good, but that setup was a little bit of a pain. 00:08:09.960 --> 00:08:16.340 And so Katie McLaughlin told me about Podium, which is a Beware application. And I got to tell you, 00:08:16.340 --> 00:08:22.720 I love the Beware stuff, but one, and they know it also is that the documentation, they need more help 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.620 with documentation because there's not much there. But this is cool. It's a native application. It 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:36.220 currently supports, there's builds for Linux and for macOS, which bummer for Windows people, but 00:08:36.220 --> 00:08:41.800 it works for me for macOS. And it's a, since it's not a browser thing, it's a native app, 00:08:41.800 --> 00:08:48.120 it can have control over going to different screens and stuff. So when you hit like command P, 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:54.520 it just goes into presentation mode. You've got your notes on your computer and the presentation on the 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:59.740 extended one, it's automatic. You don't have to fight it. They've also simplified the syntax of the 00:08:59.740 --> 00:09:05.400 markdown. So remark.js has a bunch of boilerplate HTML stuff on the top and bottom, 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:13.700 but the Podium, Beware Podium has removed that. So your markdown file with all your slide content 00:09:13.700 --> 00:09:18.220 is just content. It's not a bunch of other stuff. So I'm really happy about this. 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:22.840 Yeah, this looks nice. It's cool to not see it all just a bunch of JavaScript, right? And it's cool to 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.780 have a little bit more of a native app that can do more than just something in your browser. 00:09:26.780 --> 00:09:32.960 Yeah. So this isn't specifically a Python related topic, but in watching other people's slides, I know a lot of 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:39.220 people are using remark because I recognize it when people do it. So I'm hoping this might help other 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:44.700 people too. Yeah, absolutely. If anyone wants to help out with the documentation, a little Giphy or 00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.700 video or something of what this looks like and what it does would go a long way. Just like, you know, 00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:56.980 the D type detail that you had before would be quite cool. So, or the car nets, right? Just the Beware 00:09:56.980 --> 00:10:01.920 stuff is cool, but it's always, you know, it's just text usually talking about something visual. So 00:10:01.920 --> 00:10:08.780 that would be great. Now, this one, I feel like this topic is cheating on you, Brian. I'm going to cover a 00:10:08.780 --> 00:10:10.100 pytest thing. I love it. 00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:18.060 So this is pytest mock resources. So this comes from Daniel Cardin and his company recently open 00:10:18.060 --> 00:10:24.400 sourced some of their internal pytest tools to help them do more pytest goodness. And I think it's cool 00:10:24.400 --> 00:10:30.440 that the team at the company put the effort into open source this project. So basically this is 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:37.420 something to help out with testing external resources. Now, testing external resources is one of the tricky, 00:10:37.760 --> 00:10:44.180 challenging bits of testing code, right? I'm going to call the credit card API, but I don't really want 00:10:44.180 --> 00:10:49.140 to charge it. I just want to simulate calling it and telling it and get the response back, or I'm going 00:10:49.140 --> 00:10:53.380 to query the database. And I don't really want to hit the database. I just want to simulate getting this 00:10:53.380 --> 00:10:57.540 data back. And that's already solved with mocks and patching and that kind of stuff, right? 00:10:57.540 --> 00:10:57.780 Yeah. 00:10:57.780 --> 00:11:04.520 But this is a way that you can test if you do need to actually get some data back from the database 00:11:04.860 --> 00:11:10.460 or from some other service and just go like, I really need it to give me this data back to see 00:11:10.460 --> 00:11:18.020 that the part that actually processes the query that is working correctly. So basically its job is to 00:11:18.020 --> 00:11:24.740 set up Docker containers and manage the lifecycle of those around your tests. So it'll fire up a little 00:11:24.740 --> 00:11:30.000 Postgres server or it'll fire up a MongoDB server inside of a Docker instance, get it set up for your tests, 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.480 let your test query against it, and then throw it away. Sometimes it makes sense to have tests that 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:41.060 are abstracting away or hiding or patching or mocking the dependencies. Like we described, that 00:11:41.060 --> 00:11:46.000 probably makes sense most of the time, but there's a little slice where it really needs to interact 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:52.460 with those resources and you might want to test that, right? Like did my SQLAlchemy class get out 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:58.180 of shape with the way the database thinks it is? Well, I can mock that out all day, but the only way I'm 00:11:58.180 --> 00:12:02.300 going to find out that doesn't work is try to do a query and have, you know, the relational database 00:12:02.300 --> 00:12:07.580 throw an exception and say, this column that you're querying for doesn't exist. And then I'll find out, 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:11.160 right? So I think it's cool for testing that level. Oh, that's neat. What's your take on this? 00:12:11.160 --> 00:12:20.240 It's not a domain that I'm in having to utilize, but the, I love that people that solve a problem 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.160 are willing, even in a company setting, are willing to open source it to other, 00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:27.960 to let other people benefit as well. Yeah. Pretty cool. I can definitely see that using 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:32.880 this around the websites and stuff like that. There's certain parts where, you know, it really 00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:39.920 would be easier if it just would generate the sitemap.xml correctly. So then I can use that 00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:44.220 to poke back at some of the elements and whatnot. It, it seems pretty interesting. I haven't used it for 00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:48.340 anything yet, but it looks, looks cool. Yeah. Nice. Let's keep rolling and testing, huh? Yeah. I guess 00:12:48.340 --> 00:12:53.120 we got two testing things in a row. This is an article. I wrote the title as how James Bennett 00:12:53.120 --> 00:13:00.500 is testing in 2020. The actual article title is how I'm testing in 2020, but it isn't how I'm testing. 00:13:00.500 --> 00:13:06.820 So it's James Bennett because it's his article. So anyway, he wrote an article called, I forget 00:13:06.820 --> 00:13:13.660 what it's called, but it's an article about testing Django applications in 2018. And so he's following it up 00:13:13.660 --> 00:13:18.820 again to see, you know, kind of what changed. It sounds like he's testing more things than just 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:25.660 Django, but it still is. I'm going to go through a few of these, using, still using unit test over 00:13:25.660 --> 00:13:32.960 py test. And I respect that there's a lot of people that just think in the X unit style and for 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:39.200 some reason have trouble thinking in py test and that's fine. We can both coexist. He's using, 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:45.080 talks to be able to test over multiple Django and Python versions and, using a talks Travis 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:51.660 plugin to aid the Travis side of that, which is cool. I like talks a lot. Use it almost every day. 00:13:51.660 --> 00:13:58.440 We've talked about pyenv before for local Python installation management. And so he's using that. 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:04.060 And actually I think we've talked about this the other, not too long ago, that if you're using pyenv, 00:14:04.060 --> 00:14:12.500 there is a pyenv dash virtual end plugin to help you with a virtual environments. I'm not using pyenv, 00:14:12.500 --> 00:14:18.420 but, but that's neat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. And, since you can't use py test, 00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:25.780 he's not, well, he does use py test sometimes, but he also gave a list of his, run tests script to, 00:14:25.780 --> 00:14:30.980 uh, just run everything. That's especially useful. You can have multiple. I like the idea of this in 00:14:30.980 --> 00:14:37.620 any way you can have multiple of these for, let's say you've got a smoke test or suite or different 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:43.320 suites that run on Jenkins server or some other, or Travis server being able to have one entry point 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:49.100 is a good idea using coverage also. And he talks about some of his two extra tools. It's not just, 00:14:49.100 --> 00:14:55.200 uh, functional tests, but things like including black and ice sort and flake. And I just appreciate 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:01.840 people being very open about their testing workflow. I think more people just write in really any 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:06.260 workflow. Just, I think it's interesting to find out what people are doing for different parts of 00:15:06.260 --> 00:15:11.700 their workflows. Yeah. I find this interesting as well. It's kind of not quite a confessional, 00:15:11.700 --> 00:15:16.660 but Mike, look, you're going to hear all these new, awesome ways of doing things. Are you going to 00:15:16.660 --> 00:15:21.600 hear that you should use this and not that, or you have to do it this way. Here's what's working for me 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.600 really in a nice practical way. And I dig that. Yeah. It's not like, this is the best. It's just, 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:31.020 it's working for me. This is what I'm doing. Yeah. And there's some cool little extra commands, 00:15:31.020 --> 00:15:37.400 like cleaning up a PyCache files and set up, install local files and pip upgrade. That stuff's nice. 00:15:37.400 --> 00:15:42.460 In building that is, as a talks commands. That's something that I learned. I picked up from 00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:47.680 somebody. I can't remember who, but I'm like, Oh yeah, you don't actually have to run, 00:15:47.880 --> 00:15:54.360 do a complete thing. You can just have some of your utility stuff within, within talks. That's 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:59.280 nice. Absolutely. Have we talked about GUIs yet? I don't know. Probably not. Yeah. There's actually 00:15:59.280 --> 00:16:04.240 some, interesting news about Remy and some people jumping in and contributing to that, 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.500 that I've seen flying by on Twitter. So that's super cool. But I want to talk about QT, pronounce 00:16:08.500 --> 00:16:16.300 QT. So interesting project here. This is a, I want to talk sort of riff on, I guess is the right way to 00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:22.680 put it. A article by Leo Danis Ramos over at realpython.com. And over there, there's an article 00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:28.300 about Python and PyCute building a GUI desktop calculator. So if you're interested in getting 00:16:28.300 --> 00:16:34.320 into QT, this is a really nice summary, not too long, you know, shorter than a quick little blog 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.480 post, but longer than a little quick little blog post, but shorter than a whole book. Right. But 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.220 you know, like, I think it's a good level that they've got going on over there. So I'm just going 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:47.400 to talk about a couple of interesting takeaways and basically the elements of a Qt application. 00:16:47.660 --> 00:16:54.340 So if you're going to build them up to the Qt apps are made up of three or four different big ideas or 00:16:54.340 --> 00:16:59.640 whatever, one of them are widgets, right? So if you're going to work with Qt, it's basically a wrapper 00:16:59.640 --> 00:17:08.000 around the C++ API. And being that a lot of things are object oriented and whatnot. So if you work with 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:13.060 a widget, you derive from Q widget, or use something that's already written and driven from Q widget, 00:17:13.060 --> 00:17:20.840 which are like buttons, text boxes, and so on. And a lot of examples you see will like take those 00:17:20.840 --> 00:17:26.120 widgets and put them on the screen and say, this button goes at this XY location and this thing goes 00:17:26.120 --> 00:17:32.160 there. But the other thing that's really interesting there are layout managers. So there's all these 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:37.840 different kinds of layout managers that you can use. So you could put in something, let me pull up a quick 00:17:37.840 --> 00:17:42.880 little example. So you could put in the elements and it has like a horizontal layout where stuff goes, 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:49.200 left to right to right based on the size of it. Or you can have a vertical one, or you can have a grid 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.900 one, all these different layout managers you can employ to figure out how it will automatically adjust 00:17:53.900 --> 00:17:58.960 its size as the elements are rearranged or, you know, the size of the windows change and whatnot. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:04.880 So that's pretty cool. We got main windows, of course, which is like the essence of your app, 00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:09.220 right? You're going to create a main window and put your layout manager in it and then load it with 00:18:09.220 --> 00:18:14.800 widgets. And of course, you've got an app, Q application for a Qt app. And that's kind of 00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:19.380 like the essence. And then finally, to bring it all together, there's signals and slots, which are 00:18:19.380 --> 00:18:25.540 kind of like events, I guess, or callbacks. So all the widgets, like buttons and whatnot, 00:18:25.540 --> 00:18:32.000 have these event catchers from the GUI system of your OS. And then they'll fire off events like, 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:37.280 hey, somebody clicked me, hey, somebody typed in me and things like that. So yeah, it's just a quick 00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:40.040 way to get started with Qt that people might want to check out. 00:18:40.040 --> 00:18:47.200 I think there's a really, they've done a really good job. It's pretty cool. The Qt demos and 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:54.040 tutorials, there are many around, but having it all just in one single page is pretty neat. 00:18:54.040 --> 00:18:57.540 Exactly. I feel like there's a lot of stuff out there, but it's all kind of hit and miss. 00:18:57.540 --> 00:19:01.160 And you're like, I don't feel like I quite have the whole story. And so that's why I wanted to bring 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:07.940 this up because Dan and crew, Leo Danis, they're doing a good job on this. Now, one caveat I do 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:12.020 want to throw out there before you spend a week getting this all up and running and find out stuff 00:19:12.020 --> 00:19:18.920 about it. Either you need to have a lot of money to work on this, or you need to have it be open source 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:24.940 or internal not distributed projects. They can be used at your company, I believe, but they have to be 00:19:24.940 --> 00:19:30.760 not distributed. I think that's the important thing. Oh, because of the Qt licensing? The Qt licensing is 00:19:30.760 --> 00:19:37.500 it's like dual license, either GPL or LGPL, or it's commercial. And I'm pretty sure to use it on 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:42.600 commercial projects, you have to have a commercial license. And the commercial license is $5,500 per 00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:48.840 year per developer. Okay. That's a lot. To me, that feels like a lot of money for a GUI framework. 00:19:49.080 --> 00:19:55.320 Yeah. Right? When I could go use Java, I could use C++, I could use Windows Forms from .NET. 00:19:55.320 --> 00:19:59.920 There's like a bunch of options that are solid. I don't know. It just, it seems... 00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:02.100 All of those options sounded horrible to me, though. 00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:02.420 I know. 00:20:02.420 --> 00:20:02.880 Well... 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.460 That you just listed. 00:20:03.460 --> 00:20:14.180 I know. I'm with you. But it's not like you pay $5,000 once or you pay $500 once. It's as long as you 00:20:14.180 --> 00:20:19.360 care to own this application. It's $5,500 a year per developer. And that's just, that's 00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:23.900 a lot. So anyway, it's not to say don't do it, right? If your company is like, hey, we 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:27.600 really want to go with this technology, we want to go that way, that makes sense and we can 00:20:27.600 --> 00:20:31.340 totally justify it. But it's not something I... If I was like, hey, I'd like to create a 00:20:31.340 --> 00:20:36.340 little app, maybe I'll create like a desktop version of the Talk Python player app that does 00:20:36.340 --> 00:20:40.240 cool like offline support and stuff. Maybe I'll use Qt. Like, no, I wouldn't use Qt. 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:41.560 Okay. 00:20:41.560 --> 00:20:46.580 Right? I mean, because I'm not going to pay, you know, $5,000, $10,000 a year for that because 00:20:46.580 --> 00:20:50.360 it's just... I don't know. That's just the way it is. Anyway, I always want to throw that caveat 00:20:50.360 --> 00:20:53.600 out there because it's not just like, oh, you got to pay a little bit for it. It's like, you 00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:58.080 got to consider that that's a non-trivial amount of money to use it that way. So I just want 00:20:58.080 --> 00:20:58.580 to throw that out there. 00:20:58.580 --> 00:21:01.800 Well, yeah. And if we've gotten this story wrong, please somebody tell us. 00:21:01.800 --> 00:21:06.560 Yep. I did poke around their site a lot and I was looking for the exact quote, but basically 00:21:06.560 --> 00:21:10.260 if you're going to release it commercially, I believe that this is the case. But yeah, if we got 00:21:10.260 --> 00:21:11.180 it wrong, someone tell us. 00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:13.800 I believe you. I just don't want to believe you. 00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:20.000 I know. I know. All right. Cool. Well, yeah. If somebody has more details than that on the 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.820 license, but that is... I spent probably 30 minutes trying to figure this out to make sure 00:21:23.820 --> 00:21:26.980 I got it right. And that's what I took away from what's on their website. 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:27.280 Okay. 00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:31.300 What about the extra stuff? The things that we're not quite covering, but we're still covering? 00:21:31.300 --> 00:21:32.120 What do you got? 00:21:32.120 --> 00:21:37.260 Well, we did mention PyCascades a couple of times. As of this recording, they don't have 00:21:37.260 --> 00:21:43.440 the individual talks chopped up into videos yet. I don't know if they're going to, but the 00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:49.800 live stream video of day one and day two. So everybody's talk, if you can kind of fast forward 00:21:49.800 --> 00:21:54.760 through it, is available. That was available right away. Actually, they were pretty fast about 00:21:54.760 --> 00:22:00.780 it, which is pretty cool. We're leaving a link to that. And I also just want to do a huge shout 00:22:00.780 --> 00:22:05.580 out and thank you to all of the volunteers for PyCascades. It was a really fun event and 00:22:05.580 --> 00:22:06.980 I appreciate everybody's time. 00:22:06.980 --> 00:22:11.180 Yeah. PyCascades was great and it was really fun to be there and meet all the folks that 00:22:11.180 --> 00:22:11.420 I did. 00:22:11.420 --> 00:22:18.540 I had a moment of panic and anxiety shortly before my talk. And back in the green room, 00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:26.020 Nita Zakarenko noticed and probably because I said, oh my God, I'm freaking out. And she helped 00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:30.760 me through to calm down before the talk and I really appreciate that. So I wanted to thank 00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:34.020 Nina on the show. How about you? Any extras? 00:22:34.020 --> 00:22:38.980 Just a couple of quick things. I did a live webcast that I talked about like a month ago 00:22:38.980 --> 00:22:42.800 on the show for Python for .NET developers. A bunch of people signed up. That was awesome. 00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:48.940 That happened yesterday. And so now the recording is available. So I'll link to that in the show 00:22:48.940 --> 00:22:53.820 notes. People can go listen to that or share it with their friends and whatnot, colleagues. 00:22:53.820 --> 00:22:58.940 And also I've talked about this before, I'm pretty sure, but I sent out a message and a whole 00:22:58.940 --> 00:23:03.940 bunch of people are like, oh, really? So I just want to throw it out that if you go to 00:23:03.940 --> 00:23:08.980 the Talk Python training site and get one of our apps, those apps, you can download them for free. 00:23:08.980 --> 00:23:14.180 And when you open up and log in, it'll give you a list of our free courses and you just tap them. 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:19.840 You can take a bunch free at the moment, probably more in the future of our free courses on your iPad 00:23:19.840 --> 00:23:24.600 or Android tablet or whatever it is you want to take them on. So check that out if that sounds cool to you. 00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:31.140 When you first released this, I didn't quite get the value, but I really appreciate the mobile app because 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:37.060 for me, bookmarking stuff on a, I bookmark stuff on my desktop all the time, but bookmarking stuff on my, 00:23:37.060 --> 00:23:43.000 on my mobile phone, I don't really do that. So keeping track of which courses I've been partway through, 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.800 it's really handy to just have this right in the app. I like it. 00:23:46.800 --> 00:23:48.340 Awesome. Yeah. Thanks. That's awesome. 00:23:48.460 --> 00:23:55.680 And also there's a bunch of restrictions, especially around iOS. Like it won't autoplay the next video. So 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:01.460 you've constantly got to be going like play, play, play in the mobile app and you can't quite full 00:24:01.460 --> 00:24:05.360 screen it as much because there's like a little, you know, the address bar on some browsers. Anyway. 00:24:05.360 --> 00:24:06.460 Yeah. Thank you for that. It's awesome. 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:08.580 What? So the mobile app can't autoplay? 00:24:08.580 --> 00:24:13.780 No, the mobile app does. But if, if it was alternative or to be to watch it with Safari or Chrome or something 00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:19.280 on iOS, it's kind of restricted. Yeah. Right. Okay. Cool. How about a, how about a joke? 00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:22.780 I would love a joke. All right. I'll take one. You take one. Cause I couldn't decide. I had three 00:24:22.780 --> 00:24:28.940 and I chose two. They're both short. So I figured like that'll round it out. So here you go. Did you 00:24:28.940 --> 00:24:33.880 know that programmers, they sometimes get confused about what holidays are? No. They do because 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:40.460 especially Halloween and Christmas. And there was, you know, like not a real good reason people 00:24:40.460 --> 00:24:45.600 couldn't figure it out until someone realized that oct 31 is des 25. 00:24:45.600 --> 00:24:51.940 This is so wacky that that's true. That's in plus it's funny. 00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:53.740 Yeah. All right. What's the other one? 00:24:53.740 --> 00:24:59.600 Okay. Let me read it first. Okay. Speed dating is useless. Five minutes is not enough to properly 00:24:59.600 --> 00:25:02.260 explain the benefits of the Unix philosophy. 00:25:03.460 --> 00:25:07.640 It might not be enough to explain the Unix philosophy, but if that's the start to a date, 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:14.300 it might still be effective in communicating what it's got to. Oh yeah. Oh boy. All right. Well, 00:25:14.300 --> 00:25:19.180 that's pretty funny. So thanks again, as always. Great to be here with you. Thank you. Yep. Bye 00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:24.040 everyone. Bye. Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:25:24.100 --> 00:25:31.040 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. And get the full show notes at Python Bytes.fm. If you have a news 00:25:31.040 --> 00:25:35.920 item you want featured, just visit Python Bytes.fm and send it our way. We're always on the lookout for 00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:40.960 sharing something cool. On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. Thank you for 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:43.580 listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.