WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.480 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:11.920 your earbuds. This is episode 198, recorded August 31st, 2020. I am Brian Okken. 00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:12.760 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.760 --> 00:00:15.600 And we're joined by a guest. We have Annalena Popkus. 00:00:15.600 --> 00:00:17.700 Yes, that's very correct. 00:00:17.700 --> 00:00:22.140 Wonderful. She's been on Michael's Talk Python podcast a couple of times. 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:22.740 Absolutely. 00:00:22.740 --> 00:00:23.640 Or at least once. 00:00:23.640 --> 00:00:28.420 It depends how far out in the future. I think in the future twice. We've already recorded a 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:32.400 couple shows together, but we've got quite a buffer there. So this one will be out before. 00:00:32.400 --> 00:00:36.200 So one and two times. And welcome to this show. Nice to see you. 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:37.380 Yeah, thanks for having me. 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:39.460 I'll kick it off with the first topic. 00:00:39.460 --> 00:00:41.980 Give us something easy. Don't make it hard, Brian. Come on. 00:00:41.980 --> 00:00:47.960 Yeah, actually. So when I remember, it's been a while since I shifted of thinking about Python 00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:54.420 as a scripting language to as a full-blown language to do everything, big applications and stuff. 00:00:54.420 --> 00:01:00.400 Of course, I still do both. I use it for a quick scripting language, but also more meaty 00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:06.820 things. But back in the day when I was using Bash, if I wanted to have a little script to do with 00:01:06.820 --> 00:01:13.200 arguments, I'd have like an example Bash file that I would just keep copying from. And I was thinking 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:17.820 about that because I would never remember how to do arguments and stuff and parameter passing through 00:01:17.820 --> 00:01:24.760 into a little script. And the same is true for Python with arg parse. But we have Google now to find that 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:31.000 information out. But I was thinking about that when I saw this comment on Twitter. It's from Joshua 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:33.180 Schreiber. And he said, 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:38.880 every time I write a Python script, I have to go back to an old script of mine to remember how to set 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:44.760 up arg parse. For some reason, it just doesn't stick in my mind at all. And then Ken Yewans Clark, 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:48.020 and I think he's been on your show, hasn't he, Michael? 00:01:48.020 --> 00:01:49.080 No, I don't think so. 00:01:49.080 --> 00:01:49.480 Okay. 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:50.740 Probably should be, but hasn't. 00:01:50.740 --> 00:01:53.100 He commented and he said, 00:01:53.240 --> 00:01:59.720 I've got this little utility called the new.py. So I went and checked it out and I'm pretty happy 00:01:59.720 --> 00:02:03.880 with it. It's not something you can pip install and we're going to link to it in the show notes. It's 00:02:03.880 --> 00:02:10.000 just part of, he's got a repo for it. And I think he uses it in a book that he wrote, but basically what 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:16.300 it does is you, you run it and give it a file name and it gives you a little starter script with all 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:21.300 arg parse stuff with examples. You've got an example, positional argument, a string argument, 00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:26.120 integer argument, file argument, and a Boolean flag. So you don't have to look that stuff up. 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:31.360 They're already there as dummy ones. And then you can, you know, add to it and whatever, 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:36.740 delete the stuff you don't want. So just in, if you've got this around, you can use it to 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:43.960 spin up a new script really easily. And he also just recently added test code for it. So if you 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:50.780 pass it a dash T, it'll generate a little stub test file so you can test your script with it too. 00:02:50.780 --> 00:02:55.220 So anyway, if you're using Python for scripting, I think this is a good thing to look at. 00:02:55.220 --> 00:03:00.380 I love that. I have the same problem every time. I always copy it from an old script every time. 00:03:00.380 --> 00:03:06.020 I was thinking the same thing. Like what is one of the big difference between beginners and experts? 00:03:06.020 --> 00:03:08.900 Experts have a whole bunch of these old things they can go copy from. 00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:14.940 Well, I often use, so I'm usually using click or what's the other one that's... 00:03:14.940 --> 00:03:15.860 Typer. Typer. 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:16.400 Typer's the business. 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:22.140 Yeah. So I'm usually using those for larger applications, but there's a lot of times where 00:03:22.140 --> 00:03:27.060 you're passing, you have a shared script that you don't really want to have install anything extra. 00:03:27.580 --> 00:03:30.960 So ArgParse is still something to use for a lot of stuff. 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:31.600 Yeah. Very cool. 00:03:31.600 --> 00:03:36.460 Yeah. If you don't want arguments, I'm sorry, dependencies, this is a great example there. 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:40.480 Because if your script could literally run without a pip install or without a virtual environment, 00:03:40.480 --> 00:03:45.200 except for that, you know, I probably would just have a slightly more cumbersome bit of code 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:47.520 and have it easy, easy to run, you know? 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:47.720 Yeah. 00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:52.980 I've been thinking about how I should really be building more CLI-based applications. 00:03:52.980 --> 00:03:58.420 And I have an insane number of these little, what I would really call scripts. 00:03:58.420 --> 00:03:59.200 They're not applications. 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:04.700 They're like little tools that I just use to run all the stuff around my company. 00:04:04.700 --> 00:04:11.340 So for example, one that I wrote last week was I had a company that did transcripts for the video 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:13.320 courses and then they stopped doing that. 00:04:13.900 --> 00:04:17.440 You know, it's fine. They moved on to doing other things, but all of a sudden I had to figure out, 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:18.860 well, how do I get transcripts again? 00:04:18.860 --> 00:04:23.860 So I wrote a little script that would go find all of the videos in a course, 00:04:23.860 --> 00:04:31.400 see if it was missing transcripts, go and use AWS transcribe and just say the videos in AWS S3, 00:04:31.400 --> 00:04:35.460 do this and then download it and turn it into sentences and subtitles and video. 00:04:35.460 --> 00:04:37.620 So there's like 50 of these. 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:42.520 And I'm at the point where I almost think I might just make one command line option to run 00:04:42.520 --> 00:04:44.340 every one of those scripts, right? 00:04:44.340 --> 00:04:50.800 Like kind of like Git with sub commands, like TP space transcripts, TP space video and code, 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:50.980 right? 00:04:50.980 --> 00:04:53.840 Like I'm almost ready to build this huge CLI thing. 00:04:53.840 --> 00:04:55.500 And I probably won't use arg parse though. 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:56.280 I'll probably use typer. 00:04:56.280 --> 00:04:56.580 Yeah. 00:04:56.580 --> 00:04:57.680 Sounds like a good idea. 00:04:57.680 --> 00:04:58.460 Yeah, exactly. 00:04:58.460 --> 00:04:59.300 Cause I always forget. 00:04:59.300 --> 00:05:00.160 I'm like, did I write that? 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:00.680 What's it called? 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:01.660 How do I run it again? 00:05:01.660 --> 00:05:02.980 To track it down. 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.300 So this next one comes to us from a listener. 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:08.840 Exuma is the username. 00:05:08.840 --> 00:05:10.220 I didn't get a first last name. 00:05:10.220 --> 00:05:11.920 So thanks for sending that over. 00:05:12.400 --> 00:05:18.680 And it's called D beaver, D beaver, something like that. 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.360 So it's for databases and has to do with beavers. 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.120 So D beaver database UI tool. 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:31.200 And something about working with databases inspires people to use animal names or creature names. 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:34.280 So this is D beaver. 00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:44.940 And the one that I mentioned that started got Exuma saying, Hey, this is cool, but you should also check this other one out is I mentioned beekeeper at beekeeper.io, which is really, really cool. 00:05:44.940 --> 00:05:50.860 So here's another cool free open source database GUI tool. 00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:53.680 So if you got to work with databases, this looks like a really nice one. 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:54.520 Yeah, it looks pretty cool. 00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:54.820 Yeah. 00:05:54.820 --> 00:05:59.620 You know, it doesn't have the full on marketing, beautiful page. 00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:07.580 Like if you go to beekeeper studio, sorry, beekeeper studio.io, man, that thing looks like it could be a VC funded startup like landing page, right? 00:06:07.580 --> 00:06:16.540 Whereas D beaver is nice, but it doesn't have, it doesn't look like ultra polish, but it's based on a clips and it supports 80 different database types. 00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:25.760 So obviously the popular ones like my SQL, Postgres, SQL lights, Microsoft SQL server, and so on, but a whole bunch of other ones as well. 00:06:26.500 --> 00:06:32.280 So yeah, if you got to work with databases and you want some kind of UI tool, this looks like a pretty good option. 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:34.120 Do you have an idea why they called it beaver? 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.340 I have no idea why they called it beaver. 00:06:36.340 --> 00:06:42.560 It's funny sometimes since in machine learning, they had a trend that they named the models like Sesame Street. 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:43.880 Do you say Sesame Street? 00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:44.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:46.840 And they started calling them bird. 00:06:46.840 --> 00:06:49.820 Like Grover and Big Bird and all this kind of stuff. 00:06:49.900 --> 00:06:56.940 Yeah, and someone started it and then the others just continued naming the models like that. 00:06:56.940 --> 00:06:58.280 It was a lot of fun. 00:06:58.280 --> 00:06:59.500 Yeah, it's really fun. 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:07.400 Last episode, which isn't out yet, so there's no way you would have heard this, but we were talking about something on Debian. 00:07:07.400 --> 00:07:14.880 It was going through the Python Docker script and understanding what it means to create a bare-bones Python system. 00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:21.200 And you found out that Debian names their releases after Toy Story characters. 00:07:21.200 --> 00:07:23.200 I like that. 00:07:23.200 --> 00:07:24.660 Yeah, that's nice. 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:29.700 And of course, you were doing all of your stuff with 100 Days of Code and Harry Potter, right? 00:07:29.700 --> 00:07:30.800 Which is also pretty awesome. 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.040 But there's not really releases for that, is there? 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:33.300 No. 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:35.560 So let's see. 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.940 So a couple more things that are interesting about DBeaver is it's got a nice GUI interface. 00:07:40.940 --> 00:07:42.760 It has dark mode, light mode, and whatnot. 00:07:42.760 --> 00:07:45.240 It has support for cloud data sources. 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:51.040 So if you're going to connect to, I'm presuming things like hosted databases like SQL Azure or something like that. 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:59.560 But it also has extensions that allow you to work directly between databases and Excel or databases and Git, which I think is pretty cool. 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:10.120 And it also will build UML entity diagrams, like show me the relationships of this table, you know, where the foreign keys go and all of the things like that visually, which is pretty nice. 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:12.540 If you're just like given a project, here's the database. 00:08:12.540 --> 00:08:14.420 You're like, oh, what the heck did I just get? 00:08:14.420 --> 00:08:14.960 Right. 00:08:14.960 --> 00:08:16.680 You could open it up in something like this. 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:19.820 You know, PyCharm Pro has something along those lines as well. 00:08:19.900 --> 00:08:21.200 But this is really an open source. 00:08:21.200 --> 00:08:22.000 So that's pretty cool. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:29.520 Yeah, I use the one for PyCharm Pro for and the diagramming helps a lot to be able to visualize what your data is doing. 00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:30.080 Totally agree. 00:08:30.080 --> 00:08:31.000 I use it all the time. 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:31.140 Yeah. 00:08:31.140 --> 00:08:31.820 All right. 00:08:31.820 --> 00:08:33.340 Well, that's it for DBeaver. 00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:33.960 I think it's cool. 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.460 People can check it out and compare it with Beekeeper Studio. 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:36.920 Great. 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.620 So I want to talk about PDB++. 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:49.440 So I was always using the IPython debugger when debugging, but I recently switched from using IPDB to PDB++. 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:55.840 So PDB is the Python debugger, like the normal one that's part of the standard library. 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.520 And PDB++ is an extension of that. 00:08:59.520 --> 00:09:04.260 So it's fully compatible with PDB, but it has some pretty nice features. 00:09:04.680 --> 00:09:08.740 And I think they improved the debugging experience quite a bit. 00:09:08.740 --> 00:09:10.760 It's very easy to install. 00:09:10.760 --> 00:09:18.400 So you just type pip install PDBPP, since PDB++ is not a valid package name. 00:09:18.400 --> 00:09:20.520 And I have two favorites. 00:09:20.520 --> 00:09:31.780 Like it has quite a few additional commands and features compared to PDB, but it has all the usual commands that are also part of IPDB. 00:09:31.780 --> 00:09:33.340 So it's very easy to switch. 00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:36.220 But there is the sticky mode, which I like a lot. 00:09:36.220 --> 00:09:46.260 So the official description is that when you're in the sticky mode, every time you change the current position, the screen is repainted and then the whole function is shown. 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:52.200 So when doing step-by-step debugging, it's very easy to follow the flow of execution. 00:09:52.560 --> 00:10:00.040 And I find it very annoying to always type L or double L to see the code. 00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:07.280 And with the sticky mode, you can just always follow along with the code and the flow of execution. 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:11.640 And then there is smart command parsing, which I also like. 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:24.160 So if you have or if you're using PDB, it always tries to interpret the commands you enter as one of the built-in commands, which can be quite inconvenient in some situations. 00:10:24.640 --> 00:10:33.500 For example, if you want to print the value of local variable and that one happens to have the same name as one of the commands, for example. 00:10:33.500 --> 00:10:34.200 Oh, no. 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:35.300 Yeah, that could. 00:10:35.300 --> 00:10:37.100 And I had that quite a few times. 00:10:37.460 --> 00:10:51.120 So, for example, if you call something P or C and then you want to print the value of that variable, but it is interpreted as the command continue, which is C is short for continue. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.440 And I think PDB++ has quite a nice solution for that. 00:10:55.440 --> 00:11:04.640 So when there is ambiguity, so if you have a variable with the same name in the current scope, then that variable is preferred. 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:10.960 And if you still want to run the command, you can just prefix it with two exclamation marks. 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.580 But if you don't have any ambiguity and you type C, then it will always be continue. 00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:17.860 And I find that very convenient. 00:11:17.860 --> 00:11:18.560 Oh, yeah. 00:11:18.560 --> 00:11:19.920 That seems like a great little feature. 00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:23.140 And it just runs in the terminal, right? 00:11:23.140 --> 00:11:27.560 So you can run it anywhere that you have SSH access to or something to that effect. 00:11:27.560 --> 00:11:30.240 Yeah, I think it's a very nice package. 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:35.220 Maybe this is a dense question, but why use this over like an ID? 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.200 Oh, I just always use Vim. 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:48.280 And that's why I got so used to using Vim that I find it very convenient to use PDB or IPDB or now PDB++. 00:11:48.280 --> 00:12:01.440 I guess I would have to start using an IDE properly to really be able to appreciate it. 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:08.060 And yeah, I don't think I can switch back to an IDE for a while. 00:12:08.060 --> 00:12:11.080 Yeah, it has some cool features as well down here. 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:24.020 Like one of the things is if there's an exception, you can ask it for a postmortem report and it'll give you like extra details in there. 00:12:24.140 --> 00:12:27.960 You can also do stuff like break on set attribute. 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:34.980 So if some kind of attribute is set, which is, I guess, a little bit like a conditional breakpoint and say an IDE or whatever. 00:12:34.980 --> 00:12:36.520 But yeah, it looks pretty cool. 00:12:36.520 --> 00:12:40.100 I like the fact that it has syntax highlighting and color and all that. 00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:40.820 Yeah. 00:12:40.820 --> 00:12:41.440 And autocomplete. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:44.240 I know that it can be quite nice in an IDE too. 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:49.320 I think on the last Talk Python episode, it was on the Python. 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.840 How was that episode called? 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:55.680 It was called the Modern Python Developers Toolkit by Sebastian Witwaski. 00:12:55.680 --> 00:12:55.900 Yeah. 00:12:55.900 --> 00:12:58.380 And you talked about Visual Studio. 00:12:58.380 --> 00:13:03.780 And yeah, I know that it has quite a few features as well. 00:13:03.780 --> 00:13:07.340 But when you're used to something like IPDB, this is a very nice addition. 00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:07.660 Yeah. 00:13:07.660 --> 00:13:08.500 Yeah, absolutely. 00:13:09.260 --> 00:13:12.880 And you can also, what's the double exclamation point thing? 00:13:12.880 --> 00:13:16.100 So you mean what I just mentioned with the command? 00:13:16.100 --> 00:13:16.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:16.900 --> 00:13:17.900 Like when would I run that? 00:13:17.900 --> 00:13:26.140 So if you have like a variable C and that has some value, so it's a local variable, but you want to run continue in this case. 00:13:26.140 --> 00:13:26.440 Oh, I see. 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.980 Then you would have two exclamation marks and the C. 00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:31.840 Yeah, so that's why it skips it. 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:32.420 Okay, got it. 00:13:32.420 --> 00:13:33.120 I understand now. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.940 Cool, cool. 00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:34.440 All right. 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.160 Yeah, this, you know, I live largely in the IDE world. 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:43.840 But if I needed to do some debugging outside of it, this is a really nice option, I think. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.620 Like maybe in a Docker container. 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:49.520 And I don't want to set up like remote debugging and all that kind of stuff. 00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:50.900 I just want to run it. 00:13:50.900 --> 00:13:51.480 What's it doing? 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:52.020 Yeah, that's cool. 00:13:52.020 --> 00:13:52.340 Nice. 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:53.260 Oh, yes. 00:13:53.260 --> 00:13:55.580 Today's sponsor is us. 00:13:55.580 --> 00:13:57.480 So thank you, us. 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.180 Thanks, us. 00:14:00.580 --> 00:14:02.320 We'll probably have to edit that section. 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:08.980 Today's sponsor is both Talk Python training and Test and Code podcast as well. 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:10.040 I wanted to highlight. 00:14:10.040 --> 00:14:17.520 I had some, I think last episode I mentioned that Adam Johnson, which hadn't actually, he 00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:18.940 hadn't actually been on our show yet. 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:23.000 But the last episode of Test and Code 128, I did have Adam Johnson on. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.340 He is the maintainer of pytest randomly. 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.400 And so we talk about what the importance of randomizing your tests to make sure that you 00:14:30.400 --> 00:14:33.640 have order dependent, order independent tests. 00:14:33.640 --> 00:14:35.500 So that's a good episode. 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:40.840 But we talk about all sorts of stuff on Test and Code, including things like tips for working 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:41.320 from home. 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:42.660 That was on episode 127. 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:43.940 So check it out. 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:46.300 I think people are doing that more than they used to for some reason. 00:14:46.300 --> 00:14:47.200 I'm not really sure why. 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:48.080 Working from home? 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:48.360 Yeah. 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:49.320 Yeah, definitely. 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:51.280 Yeah, no, that sounds great. 00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:52.880 And Talk Python Training. 00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:57.180 Yeah, we just released a brand new course, Move from Excel to Python and Pandas. 00:14:57.180 --> 00:15:03.160 So if you have been trying to overdo all the stuff that you do around data with Excel 00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:08.580 or people you work with are, we created a course written by Chris Moffitt from Practical 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:14.120 Business Python to basically go through all the main use cases of Excel and show how much 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.140 easier it is to do that in Jupyter and Pandas. 00:15:16.140 --> 00:15:20.000 And I think it'll help a lot of people get their foot in the door in the Python world. 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.300 I think that's really cool. 00:15:21.300 --> 00:15:27.400 I always wanted to learn Excel, but it's so much nicer with Python that I never got around 00:15:27.400 --> 00:15:28.000 doing it. 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:28.720 Yeah, that's perfect. 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.700 That's the good side to be on, not the other side. 00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:32.280 Yes. 00:15:32.800 --> 00:15:36.520 So Brian, tell us about Markdown. 00:15:36.520 --> 00:15:37.680 I really like Markdown. 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:40.260 I use it for a whole bunch of stuff. 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:45.540 And when I mean, I so much so that I just kind of assume everybody's using Markdown now. 00:15:45.540 --> 00:15:50.700 But sometimes people have trouble getting up to speed or you want to share something. 00:15:50.700 --> 00:15:56.160 Anyway, I came across, I was actually having a Twitter discussion with somebody and they 00:15:56.160 --> 00:15:59.000 brought up this HackMD.io tool. 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:01.900 And HackMD, I've never heard of that. 00:16:01.900 --> 00:16:05.320 So I went to check it out and I'm pretty impressed with it. 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:06.120 It's pretty cool. 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.820 It is a paid service, but there's a free option too. 00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:10.320 So of course I'm on the free option. 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:16.540 But the idea is just sort of, I've got the similar, there's a lot of tools that do this. 00:16:16.540 --> 00:16:20.920 So you've got a two panel system where you, on the left, you, you're Markdown and on the 00:16:20.920 --> 00:16:23.500 right, it shows up and you can hide one or the other. 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:28.920 But the, what I really like is some of the stuff that I always forget, like how to do, 00:16:28.920 --> 00:16:35.220 how to insert a picture or do a table of contents or put reference links in or, or footnotes. 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:38.400 Those things are just sort of in there with menu items. 00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:41.400 So I don't have to remember what all those Markdown codes are. 00:16:41.400 --> 00:16:45.820 They just added, apparently you can collaborate and have multiple people editing a document 00:16:45.820 --> 00:16:46.340 with this. 00:16:46.340 --> 00:16:47.380 So that's pretty cool. 00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:52.880 There's some fancy extra things like a UML diagrams that you can add in. 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:57.860 And I'm not sure if you're exporting it, you'll have to try to figure out what sort of extra 00:16:57.860 --> 00:17:00.100 tools you need to actually generate those. 00:17:00.100 --> 00:17:01.180 But it's pretty fun. 00:17:01.180 --> 00:17:06.940 The thing that I like that they just added recently, apparently is you can sync with GitHub. 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:12.900 So you can keep all your Markdown documents in GitHub and edit them with, with HackMD. 00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:14.260 And that's pretty, pretty fun. 00:17:14.260 --> 00:17:15.000 That's awesome. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.640 The other thing I found was this thing called Markdown Guide. 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:23.140 And it is just a, just a really good, clean reference for Markdown. 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:26.940 So I'm going to, there's, I had, you know, a handful of different references that I was 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:31.140 using, but I think I'm going to switch to this one because there's tabs that have like a getting 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:33.280 started page that I can send people to. 00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:35.500 And a couple of cheat sheets. 00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:37.680 One of them was, is the most common things. 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.260 And I think it's pretty, pretty indicative of common things you'll use. 00:17:41.260 --> 00:17:45.780 And then an extended syntax page with, and then a bunch of tools you can use. 00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:48.740 So a couple of Markdown references for people. 00:17:48.740 --> 00:17:50.180 Have you ever used Pandoc? 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:50.680 Oh yeah. 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:51.420 I love Pandoc. 00:17:51.560 --> 00:17:51.960 Yes. 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:58.020 Since I recently started using it and I'm preparing my presentations now with Pandoc every 00:17:58.020 --> 00:17:58.320 time. 00:17:58.320 --> 00:17:58.880 And I love it. 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:00.740 It's just great, great tool. 00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:07.160 I love about Pandoc is it's not just from Markdown to HTML, but you can convert to Media 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:16.020 Wiki or lots of, or I use it a lot of times to format my emails correctly in the Microsoft 00:18:16.020 --> 00:18:16.500 Office. 00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:24.080 I will write them in Markdown and then use Pandoc to generate the WordDoc version and then 00:18:24.080 --> 00:18:25.700 copy and paste into an email. 00:18:25.700 --> 00:18:29.880 I know it's backwards, lots of steps, but it works for me. 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.160 Yeah. 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:35.160 You know, it'd be nice to have just an email editor that just takes straight Markdown. 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:35.820 Wouldn't that be cool? 00:18:35.820 --> 00:18:36.980 Yeah, that would be cool. 00:18:36.980 --> 00:18:37.400 Yeah. 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:43.880 And I'd really like an extension to Microsoft Outlook that had Vim key bindings. 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:45.620 That would be awesome. 00:18:45.620 --> 00:18:48.060 So the programmers are invading Outlook. 00:18:48.060 --> 00:18:48.860 Yeah. 00:18:48.860 --> 00:18:55.340 Some other cool stuff about Markdown or hack Markdown, hacked MD is it has a VS Code extension. 00:18:55.340 --> 00:18:57.860 And like you said, the GitHub integration is cool. 00:18:57.860 --> 00:18:58.900 It has a browser extension. 00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:01.280 You could turn your notes into a slide deck. 00:19:01.280 --> 00:19:05.120 You can turn it into like a research project into like what they call book mode. 00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:05.640 Yeah. 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:06.320 It looks pretty interesting. 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:10.660 And the collaboration is definitely needed around Markdown these days. 00:19:10.660 --> 00:19:14.660 Like there's not really a great collaborative place that I know of. 00:19:14.800 --> 00:19:18.680 Although I'm sure listeners are going to send us five examples, which is awesome because they always do. 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.840 But for example, like we use paper. 00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:22.700 You can do slides with this? 00:19:22.700 --> 00:19:23.520 Yes. 00:19:23.520 --> 00:19:30.220 You can export paper from Dropbox paper, paper.dropbox.com as Markdown. 00:19:30.300 --> 00:19:31.980 But it's not full fidelity. 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:35.360 It's like 85% that you can edit what you get. 00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:37.400 But it's still, it's better than nothing. 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:38.220 But yeah, this looks cool. 00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:38.520 Nice. 00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:39.380 You know what's not cool? 00:19:39.380 --> 00:19:40.260 Python malware. 00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:42.020 That's not a thing, is it? 00:19:42.660 --> 00:19:43.840 Apparently it is now a thing. 00:19:43.840 --> 00:19:51.960 So, Connor Fester, Fester, sorry, sent in this interesting article, which was done. 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:53.540 Who was this done by? 00:19:53.540 --> 00:19:55.320 It was, one second. 00:19:55.320 --> 00:19:57.120 Cyborg Security. 00:19:57.320 --> 00:20:03.360 So, these guys wrote a pretty cool article about how Python malware is starting to show up. 00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:10.820 Now, you may have heard articles or mentions of certain package management stores getting infected with malware. 00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:14.520 Like we talked about some researchers putting some kind of malware onto PyPI. 00:20:14.520 --> 00:20:16.600 JavaScript had this atnpm. 00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:18.640 Ruby had this with their gem store. 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.660 So, that's not what I'm talking about here. 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:23.780 That's an issue, but that is not this. 00:20:23.780 --> 00:20:32.580 This is about what are people doing to create the runtime environment, just the viruses basically, with Python. 00:20:32.580 --> 00:20:36.660 So, traditionally, this has been like a C, C++ type of thing. 00:20:36.660 --> 00:20:40.200 But there's some interesting parallels just to go through here. 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:46.380 I don't want to encourage anyone to do this, but I want to put it on people's radar to be aware that it could be being done, you know? 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:52.680 So, for example, one of the challenges, if you build a C++ app, you can just send a binary around and run it. 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:54.100 Not so easy with Python. 00:20:54.100 --> 00:20:57.320 The standard library has to be there, or CPython has to be there. 00:20:57.320 --> 00:21:05.740 But they talk about, well, people are using Py2exe and Py2app to package up their Python viruses and send them around. 00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:06.780 Isn't that weird? 00:21:06.780 --> 00:21:10.800 I mean, I guess people will do weird things. 00:21:10.800 --> 00:21:11.100 Yeah. 00:21:11.100 --> 00:21:19.100 So, there's an example of Python malware called C-Duke that was used against the Democratic National Committee back in 2015 and 16. 00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:25.700 There's other tools that might be just generally useful to people, regardless of whether it's in this context or not. 00:21:25.820 --> 00:21:27.680 Like, un-compile 6. 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.060 This is the successor to decompile, un-compile, and un-compile 2. 00:21:33.060 --> 00:21:35.920 I don't know where 3, 4, 5 went. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:44.420 But un-compile 6 is a native Python cross version, a Python version, I guess, decompiler and fragment decompiler. 00:21:44.520 --> 00:21:48.120 So, what it'll let you do is it'll take Python bytecode and turn it back into source code. 00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:53.620 So, instead of taking a Python file and turning it into PYC, you take a PYC and turn it into a Python file. 00:21:53.620 --> 00:21:54.060 Interesting. 00:21:54.060 --> 00:21:54.400 Yeah. 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.900 Some people have been shipping PYC files alone, right? 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:06.000 And just knowing that those can literally be turned back into source code in, like, one line of commands should be something on your radar, right? 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.740 Because it looks safe, but it's not that safe. 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:13.120 There's also a PY installer extractor. 00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:24.400 So, if you were to ship a library or application as a PY installer thing, here you can turn it back into a bunch of source files you can open up and stuff. 00:22:25.020 --> 00:22:34.060 And then they also talk about, if you're given an executable, how to understand whether or not it was built with PY installer or if it was built to PY2XE or any of those tools. 00:22:34.060 --> 00:22:39.820 Like, given an arbitrary executable, is this a Python packaged up thing, yes or no? 00:22:39.820 --> 00:22:40.360 That's cool. 00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:41.260 These are great tools. 00:22:41.260 --> 00:22:43.340 The article looks really interesting. 00:22:43.340 --> 00:22:46.500 I never thought about malware in Python before. 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:52.340 Yeah, there's a lot of interesting details and concrete examples of, here's how they did this with this one thing or that. 00:22:52.340 --> 00:22:54.200 And I think it's an interesting read. 00:22:54.360 --> 00:23:03.920 Again, not trying to encourage people to do these things, but just raise awareness, like, what the role of Python is in this, you know, less popularized space, right? 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.880 People always want to hide what they're doing in this world. 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.080 There's another application for some of these. 00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:20.180 Sometimes businesses have, they'll be afraid or, like, not want to pass around Python files because of the problems with, you know, knowing what the interpreter is or something. 00:23:20.500 --> 00:23:26.020 So they use PY2XE or something to make an executable for a tool for the company. 00:23:26.020 --> 00:23:34.260 And then somebody, and then that gets passed around and somebody loses the source or you don't know who has it or something. 00:23:34.420 --> 00:23:42.220 So using some of these reverse engineering techniques to get some source back, that'd be kind of cool to use for that purpose as well. 00:23:42.220 --> 00:23:43.560 I have an example of that. 00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:46.560 So one time there was this program we built. 00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:49.920 And this was early in my career. 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:52.660 I must have been, like, not so good about checking in stuff. 00:23:52.660 --> 00:24:01.360 And somehow the thing that I was working on had a file that somehow didn't get added to, it was SVN at the time. 00:24:01.360 --> 00:24:05.620 So I had pushed all the changes, but I forgot to add this one file. 00:24:05.620 --> 00:24:07.060 And then my computer died. 00:24:07.260 --> 00:24:10.200 And the problem was, it was like my hard drive died. 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:15.720 And so, like, there was some part of the application that in the middle of the app used this library. 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.760 And then there was the rest of the app that was kind of below that. 00:24:18.760 --> 00:24:26.640 And so it was really hard to figure out how to rewrite just that middle piece because it was like a weird jigsaw puzzle that had to fit together. 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:31.700 So I just went and disassembled the application, found the few files I needed. 00:24:31.700 --> 00:24:35.580 They were named weirdly, but I just renamed them in a way that worked. 00:24:35.580 --> 00:24:36.760 And then off it was. 00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:38.200 I checked it into Git and we were good to go. 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:39.640 Or it was SVN and we were good to go. 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:42.200 And you probably never forgot to check in your files again. 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.820 No, I'm very obsessive about it now. 00:24:44.820 --> 00:24:45.260 That's right. 00:24:45.260 --> 00:24:46.480 Yeah. 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:47.260 Yeah, absolutely. 00:24:47.260 --> 00:24:48.860 Anyway, that's all I got for this one. 00:24:48.860 --> 00:24:50.260 It's an interesting article, though. 00:24:50.260 --> 00:24:51.760 It's well done with some nice examples. 00:24:51.760 --> 00:24:52.160 Yeah. 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.520 So I'm going to go on with, do you call it adders? 00:24:54.520 --> 00:24:55.580 I call it adders. 00:24:55.580 --> 00:24:56.120 Brian, what do you call it? 00:24:56.120 --> 00:24:56.940 Adders. 00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:57.480 Adders. 00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:57.520 Adders. 00:24:57.520 --> 00:24:59.640 That's really like American English. 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:04.380 I would probably say adders, like often and not often. 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:05.720 Okay. 00:25:05.900 --> 00:25:07.640 Anyway, so what is adders? 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:13.740 It's so I only, I think I saw it a few times before, but I never actually looked into the 00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:14.220 package. 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:19.560 But now a few weeks back, I've started using it for the first time. 00:25:19.560 --> 00:25:20.820 So what is adders? 00:25:20.820 --> 00:25:23.740 It's a Python package that simplifies writing classes. 00:25:23.740 --> 00:25:27.560 So it creates a lot of the dunder methods automatically. 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:28.280 Yeah, that's cool. 00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:28.480 Yeah. 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.340 And when I first saw it, I thought we have data classes. 00:25:32.340 --> 00:25:33.800 So why do we need adders? 00:25:33.800 --> 00:25:38.940 And only then I realized that adders is much older than data classes. 00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:45.620 So PEP 557 added data classes to Python 3.7. 00:25:45.620 --> 00:25:49.260 And they do resemble adders in many ways. 00:25:49.260 --> 00:25:56.760 So when I started reading a bit on the documentation page of adders, I found out that the PEP was actually 00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:58.120 inspired by adders. 00:25:58.120 --> 00:26:06.280 And it was the result of the wish of the community to have a simplified way to write classes without 00:26:06.280 --> 00:26:09.440 having to deal with the problems that name tuples have. 00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:17.240 And I think the main difference between adders and data classes is that data classes are strictly 00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:22.700 less powerful, and that certain features were sacrificed for the sake of simplicity. 00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:24.940 So it's very easy to use data classes. 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:28.280 They are part of, I think, 3.7. 00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:30.400 With 3.7, they come automatically. 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:32.920 But if you have 3.6, you have to pip install them. 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:36.140 But you don't have to get a new package for them. 00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:40.180 And it's very easy to use them, especially if you have classes with many attributes. 00:26:40.840 --> 00:26:44.220 But with adders, you have quite a few additional features. 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:50.800 For example, you have validators that you can use when you have your initializer in the class 00:26:50.800 --> 00:26:57.140 and you want to perform some kind of validation of the input arguments, like checking that they 00:26:57.140 --> 00:27:00.860 are an integer or some other type or more fancy stuff. 00:27:00.860 --> 00:27:04.460 Then you can do that very easily with adders. 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:06.820 And it's a very powerful library. 00:27:07.080 --> 00:27:13.800 So I think I need a lot more weeks to really get into the details and all its possibilities. 00:27:13.800 --> 00:27:14.820 Yeah, this is a good one. 00:27:14.820 --> 00:27:19.960 There's a lot of subtleties around creating classes that can be a little bit annoying. 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:25.480 Like, wouldn't it be great if you could have it print out something other than just the name of the class 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:26.560 at some memory address? 00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:28.480 Automatically, that would be nice. 00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:35.160 If you create a dunder equal, dunder EQ method, well, you got to remember to create the not equals. 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:37.180 That is the opposite of that. 00:27:37.180 --> 00:27:42.220 And oh, if you create equals, maybe you also have to implement hash as well. 00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:47.300 Because all of a sudden, if two things are equal, you put them in the dictionary, but then they're not the same thing. 00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:48.660 That's going to be all sorts of crazy. 00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:50.400 It just starts to cascade. 00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.120 You're like, wait a minute, doing this right, it's not so easy. 00:27:53.260 --> 00:27:55.440 And so I think that's kind of the zen of the adders. 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:55.820 Yeah. 00:27:55.820 --> 00:28:02.400 I found it a bit confusing in the beginning with the syntax, how it looks like if you declare an attribute, 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:11.760 like it's a decorator adders, but then for the attributes of the class, you have this, is it adders.s or something? 00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:20.120 And I found that a bit confusing in the beginning, since data classes are, I think, more beautiful when you write them 00:28:20.120 --> 00:28:22.280 and you don't need this extra bit. 00:28:22.280 --> 00:28:27.100 But once you get used to the syntax, it's very nice and easy to use. 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:28.160 I have to agree. 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.180 I like the data class syntax better. 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:36.820 The dotness of the adders syntax is cute, but bugs me a little bit. 00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:42.260 Like attrib, the attributes are attr.ib. 00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:47.660 And it's not something I really enjoy, but it's not difficult either. 00:28:47.800 --> 00:28:53.140 The main switch for me, I think, is now that data classes are here, I use data classes all the time. 00:28:53.140 --> 00:29:00.540 But when I need a validator, the validation mechanism in adders is pretty darn cool. 00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:04.900 So if you want data validation, adders is still a great thing to pull up. 00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:05.380 I agree. 00:29:05.740 --> 00:29:17.660 I really wish that validators were in, or at least maybe we could have an extra package that we could pip install or something that would make data classes have validators, hopefully. 00:29:17.660 --> 00:29:22.640 I know there's other things that you can do to validate schemas and stuff like that. 00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:24.840 Yeah, I feel like there's a little bit of a paradox of choice. 00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:31.700 Like you look at all these things and you want all of the features that like kind of in this impossible combined way. 00:29:31.700 --> 00:29:33.060 So adders is cool. 00:29:33.060 --> 00:29:40.180 They've got things like you can say that these attributes can only be set as keyword arguments in the initializer and not as positional arguments. 00:29:40.180 --> 00:29:44.360 And just KW only equals true, stuff like that, which is pretty cool. 00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:51.740 And then you've got the Pydantic models, which have like built-in validation for all sorts of types, which is cool. 00:29:51.740 --> 00:29:52.780 You've got data classes. 00:29:52.780 --> 00:29:55.200 Those can be frozen, which is kind of nice. 00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.360 There's a lot of stuff going around here, and I feel like I'm underutilizing all of it. 00:29:59.360 --> 00:30:01.240 Well, grab what you need. 00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:01.740 It's good. 00:30:01.740 --> 00:30:02.080 Yeah. 00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:04.100 Throw some tests around it and switch later. 00:30:04.100 --> 00:30:09.440 For me, it's sometimes just easy to forget what's out there since there are so many nice packages. 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:18.800 And I sometimes hear like I listen to a podcast and then I think, oh, that package sounds cool, but I don't have an application for it right away. 00:30:18.800 --> 00:30:20.780 So I forget about it again. 00:30:20.780 --> 00:30:23.320 And then in some context, I hear about it again. 00:30:23.320 --> 00:30:25.840 And I think, oh, yes, you always wanted to try that. 00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:30.060 But I think at least with adders now, like I will use it again quite a few times. 00:30:30.060 --> 00:30:31.240 Yeah, I have that same problem. 00:30:31.240 --> 00:30:34.740 I get excited about all these things, but I don't have a chance to use them. 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:35.700 And then I forget. 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:36.640 Then I'll rediscover. 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:39.040 I'm like, oh, yes, that's why I thought it was cool in the first time. 00:30:39.040 --> 00:30:45.480 You should create a Harry Potter style project yourself for trying out all these things. 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:45.960 That's right. 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.380 Like awesome Harry Python, Harry Potter Python. 00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:52.440 I'm going to work on the naming. 00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:53.680 I like Harry Python. 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:58.640 Well, it might invoke images that are not exactly the same what you're thinking. 00:30:58.640 --> 00:30:59.800 Oh, yeah. 00:30:59.800 --> 00:31:00.080 Okay. 00:31:00.080 --> 00:31:00.800 Never mind. 00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:01.080 Yeah. 00:31:01.080 --> 00:31:02.060 All right. 00:31:02.060 --> 00:31:03.540 Well, you guys got anything extra? 00:31:03.540 --> 00:31:04.080 I don't. 00:31:04.080 --> 00:31:04.360 Brian? 00:31:04.360 --> 00:31:05.520 No extras? 00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:06.060 No. 00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.420 No? 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:06.960 How about you? 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.660 Anna Lena, maybe take a moment and just tell folks like what you're up to. 00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:14.220 We didn't give you a really introduction on the kind of work and stuff you're doing. 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:14.640 Yes. 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:20.220 So I think the first time Michael and I talked on Talk Python To Me, I was still an AI resident 00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:22.240 at Microsoft Research in Cambridge. 00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:25.460 So I was doing a lot of machine learning research. 00:31:25.460 --> 00:31:25.460 So I was doing a lot of machine learning research. 00:31:25.460 --> 00:31:29.920 So working in the middle between a full researcher and a full software engineer. 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:36.500 And now I'm a machine learning engineer here in Germany in a company called InnoVex, where 00:31:36.500 --> 00:31:42.880 I do like I apply machine learning to projects, proper real world problems, which is also very 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:43.340 interesting. 00:31:43.340 --> 00:31:46.860 And I do all kinds of stuff now, data engineering. 00:31:46.860 --> 00:31:50.980 So yeah, I'm always learning new things every day, which is really nice. 00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:51.880 Yeah, that's very cool. 00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:52.480 All right. 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.220 So I've got a couple of things really quick to share. 00:31:54.380 --> 00:32:01.720 I was on a cool podcast TV-like show called TechNado, which was a cool experience. 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:05.040 It's a little bit like Python Bytes, but for the IT space. 00:32:05.040 --> 00:32:07.080 So that was a lot of fun to be on there. 00:32:07.080 --> 00:32:10.800 And on YouTube, you can check it out. 00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:16.840 And we played the game Python, Python, Python, where we would get partial words out of a headline. 00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:21.360 And we'd have to decide, is it Python the snake, Monty Python, or Python the programming 00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:22.740 language that the article is about? 00:32:22.800 --> 00:32:23.340 That was pretty fun. 00:32:23.340 --> 00:32:25.620 So you could check that out over there if you're interested. 00:32:25.620 --> 00:32:26.760 Sorry. 00:32:26.760 --> 00:32:27.980 So did you win? 00:32:27.980 --> 00:32:29.460 I completely got crushed. 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:32.820 I think I got last because I wanted everything to be about Monty Python. 00:32:32.820 --> 00:32:34.400 And they're like, no, that's about a snake. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.140 I'm like, oh, come on. 00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:37.960 That would have been so funny if that was about Monty Python. 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:38.580 But no. 00:32:38.580 --> 00:32:39.960 Yeah. 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.020 I let my hopes and dreams get ahead of me. 00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:44.300 Maybe next time. 00:32:44.300 --> 00:32:45.360 Exactly. 00:32:45.360 --> 00:32:47.740 I'll come back for the championship later. 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:49.740 Brian, what do you think about this joke? 00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:51.080 I haven't looked at it. 00:32:51.080 --> 00:32:51.760 Oh, perfect. 00:32:51.760 --> 00:32:52.760 Then you got to open it up. 00:32:52.760 --> 00:32:58.020 Anna Lena is, well, this one is, as per usual for us, a visual joke in an audio format. 00:32:58.020 --> 00:32:59.140 But I think it's going to work great. 00:32:59.140 --> 00:33:03.820 So this one is called the only valid measurement of code quality. 00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:09.340 And I know, Brian, you're very passionate about high quality code and testing and stuff like that. 00:33:09.340 --> 00:33:12.500 Have you seen this metric built into any of the software you used? 00:33:12.500 --> 00:33:14.500 Well, you can't. 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:19.440 Maybe with some voice recognition and some AI. 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:22.800 Anna Lena could put something together for us, like starting the code review now. 00:33:22.800 --> 00:33:23.140 Yeah. 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:24.720 It looks so funny. 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.160 It looks so funny. 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:25.780 I love that. 00:33:25.780 --> 00:33:26.140 Yeah. 00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:30.820 So this is the only valid measurement of code quality is WTFs per minute. 00:33:30.820 --> 00:33:35.020 I'll try to keep this without the explicit tag, but WTF. 00:33:35.020 --> 00:33:37.260 So there's a comparison here. 00:33:37.520 --> 00:33:43.440 On one hand, we've got the good code review, which is still, it's like a door that's closed. 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.380 And you can just see like statements of what people's going on. 00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:47.020 It's going on the side. 00:33:47.020 --> 00:33:49.160 You hear this, WTF, WTF. 00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:50.360 What is this? 00:33:50.360 --> 00:33:51.420 That's the good code. 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:53.900 The bad code is just full of them. 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:54.640 It's like WTF. 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:56.920 What the WTF is this? 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:58.260 A dude, WTF. 00:33:58.260 --> 00:33:59.480 WTF. 00:34:00.040 --> 00:34:02.780 I think this really captures code review pretty well. 00:34:02.780 --> 00:34:03.320 It does. 00:34:03.320 --> 00:34:08.780 Anyway, the only valid of measurement of code quality, WTFs per minute. 00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:09.640 WTFs per minute. 00:34:09.640 --> 00:34:09.980 Definitely. 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:10.700 All right. 00:34:10.700 --> 00:34:13.240 Well, that wraps it up for this week. 00:34:13.240 --> 00:34:13.660 All right. 00:34:13.660 --> 00:34:14.040 Thanks, Brian. 00:34:14.040 --> 00:34:15.360 Thanks, Elena, for being here. 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:15.640 Thanks. 00:34:15.640 --> 00:34:16.600 It was a lot of fun. 00:34:16.600 --> 00:34:16.960 Yeah. 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:17.300 You bet. 00:34:17.300 --> 00:34:17.600 Bye-bye. 00:34:17.600 --> 00:34:17.880 Bye. 00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:19.800 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.260 Follow the show on Twitter at Python Bytes. 00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:25.300 That's Python Bytes, as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:34:25.300 --> 00:34:28.200 And get the full show notes at Pythonbytes.fm. 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:33.260 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit Pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:34:33.260 --> 00:34:35.300 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:34:35.300 --> 00:34:39.500 This is Brian Okken, and on behalf of myself and Michael Kennedy, thank you for listening 00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:41.740 and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.