WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:05.140 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:11.640 This is episode 200, I can't believe it. Recorded September 16th, 2020. I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:12.480 And I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.660 200, can you believe it? 00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:20.340 I actually cannot believe it. That is a ton of podcasting and everyone's been super supportive 00:00:20.340 --> 00:00:25.120 and it's been great to do 200 episodes with you. I don't think we've actually done 200 episodes 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.960 because there's a few times you couldn't make it or I couldn't make it or we did some live thing. 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:32.680 So probably like 195 together, but that's still a ton of podcasting together. 00:00:32.680 --> 00:00:36.220 Yeah, yeah, it is. It's pretty exciting. I've had a blast. 00:00:36.220 --> 00:00:38.800 Absolutely. I hope people are finding this helpful. 00:00:38.800 --> 00:00:45.000 Oh, I think they will find it helpful. We're really good at transitions. 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.140 Because we've been doing it so long. 00:00:46.140 --> 00:00:53.720 Yeah. To transition into the next topic. Actually, the first. Batchelder wrote a cool article. This 00:00:53.720 --> 00:01:01.820 is great on how to be helpful online. And this is the advice that he's giving is targeted towards people 00:01:01.820 --> 00:01:07.520 that are trying to help other people online. So if you're answering a question on Stack Overflow or 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:12.940 just even an email question somebody sends you or on Twitter or whatever, these are good advice. 00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:43.420 Actually, it's a pretty long article. There's a lot of advice there. So I want to highlight a handful of them. One of them is answer the question first. There may be other problems with their code that they're not asking about. And you want to get to the point of just helping them with their answer. All the rest of the problems on their code. Actually, I think that's really good. I've seen that people violate that all the time. The second point that he brings up is no third rails. And I don't even know where that term came from. I don't. That doesn't make sense. 00:01:43.420 --> 00:01:49.380 any sense to me. But going off the rails, I've heard of that. He gives an example of, it should 00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:55.900 be okay for someone to ask for help with a program using sockets, for example, and not have to defend 00:01:55.900 --> 00:02:01.860 their use of sockets, especially if the specific question has nothing to do with sockets. And he 00:02:01.860 --> 00:02:06.580 says things like, it's not sockets, it might be pickle or threads or globals or a singleton or 00:02:06.580 --> 00:02:13.320 something. You might have really strong opinions about some design pattern or some code 00:02:13.320 --> 00:02:17.600 that they're using or different libraries. That's not really what they're asking about. 00:02:17.600 --> 00:02:24.160 Don't attack them for their design choices. Just maybe answer the question instead. No dogpiling. 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:29.080 I think that's self-explanatory. Once somebody's already answered a question, you don't have to 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:33.760 answer it slightly different. If you're very different and you think you're adding to the 00:02:33.760 --> 00:02:40.200 conversation, of course, speak up. Meet their level. This is a difficult one. Try to determine 00:02:40.200 --> 00:02:45.820 what they know and give them a reasonable next step, not the ultimate solution. A suboptimal 00:02:45.820 --> 00:02:49.720 solution they understand is better than a gold standard they can't make use of. 00:02:49.720 --> 00:02:55.180 That makes a lot of sense because, you know, I think also leads to one of the other ones is 00:02:55.180 --> 00:03:03.660 your gold standard is encased in your context and your use case and so on. It's like the, 00:03:03.980 --> 00:03:08.740 you're not Facebook, you're not Google, you're not LinkedIn, probably. You might not need their 00:03:08.740 --> 00:03:13.980 gold-plated solution that's perfect for that situation. Yeah. And also odds are if you're 00:03:13.980 --> 00:03:19.960 answering questions, you're a more advanced developer than the person asking, at least in that field. So 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:28.340 be gentle. The last one I want to highlight is use more words. IRC and Twitter and other online 00:03:28.340 --> 00:03:33.960 mediums encourage short responses, but short responses are the exactly the kind of thing 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:40.340 that can be easily to easily misinterpreted. So use more words, especially encouraging optimistic 00:03:40.340 --> 00:03:45.960 words. I think this, and you know, also just, there's a lot of stuff people leave out, but they 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:52.340 would say in person, they would say, Oh, it's cool that you're trying this problem. Let's look at it this 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:58.440 other way and let me know if you have any other questions, but they don't put that stuff in text. 00:03:58.440 --> 00:04:04.480 And so I think it is important to use more words and, and, be more encouraging online. And there's a 00:04:04.480 --> 00:04:08.760 whole bunch of other stuff like humility and understanding your motivations and their motivations 00:04:08.760 --> 00:04:15.280 and trying to, you know, build a community. So great advice from Ned. I encourage the next time that you read 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.020 a question and your mouth drops open and your eyes stare in shock, maybe read this article before answering. 00:04:21.020 --> 00:04:24.680 Yeah. It's a nice article and a good advice. Thanks, Ned. 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.260 I don't know how to transition to magic, man. 00:04:28.260 --> 00:04:31.680 Magic is awesome. You know what else is awesome? Black is pretty awesome, right? 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:32.780 Yeah, definitely. 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:41.240 You know what is not awesome? Crappy code written in a Jupyter notebook that has no like proper editor 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:46.880 support. Like I don't need black that much because I use PyCharm and I can hit command alt L and it 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:53.700 formats it basically like Blackwood or in VS Code, I hit command shift P and type format document and it 00:04:53.700 --> 00:04:59.680 formats it basically like Blackwood, but in notebooks, it's just stuck there and it's like permanent 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:05.380 icky form. And it's like, well, how I want to make this nicer, but I don't want to take the effort of 00:05:05.380 --> 00:05:11.220 like developing it nicely. I want the tool to just fix it for me. Right. And black is really great for 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:19.140 that black super popular, but Jupyter doesn't have black, but magic can add black to your Jupyter notebook. 00:05:19.140 --> 00:05:26.000 So there's a cool package called black cell magic. And so with black cell magic, you can load this. 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:31.620 It's an extension for Jupyter notebooks. You just say percent load extension, black cell magic once. 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:38.300 And then on any cell that you want to reformat, you just say percent percent black and rerun the cell 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:39.720 and then it formats it. 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:40.780 Nice. 00:05:40.780 --> 00:05:46.180 Nice. Yeah. And so actually you type that command at the top of the cell, you rerun it, and then it 00:05:46.180 --> 00:05:52.180 takes that away. So it doesn't stay there basically. Yeah. So anyway, you run it once and you can even 00:05:52.180 --> 00:05:57.820 give like little command line arguments to the formatter when you put that special magic command, 00:05:57.820 --> 00:06:03.260 the percent percent, I think those are called magic commands in Jupyter. So percent percent black 00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:10.260 dash L 79 for like changing the line with the 79 characters instead of 80 by default, or there's, 00:06:10.260 --> 00:06:12.120 you can pass stuff off to black that way. 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:13.720 This is cool. I like it. 00:06:13.720 --> 00:06:17.960 Yeah. Yeah. And if you want to know if you like it and it's for you, you go to the website, 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:21.780 go to the link I provided and it has a cool animated GIF and you can see right away. 00:06:21.940 --> 00:06:24.720 Oh, that's cool. I want that. Or no, that's, that's weird. I don't want that. 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:27.640 Yeah. I was watching that while you were talking. 00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:33.060 Yeah. It's cool. Right. So it just, it's always a problem. Like I need to format my Jupyter notebook. 00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:40.180 Why, why is this not built in? Well, now it's kind of sort of plug in a bowl, not part of the story, 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:42.400 but can we go back to the whole command alt L thing? 00:06:42.400 --> 00:06:42.720 Yeah. 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:45.780 That's in PyCharm. It reformats your code or something. 00:06:45.780 --> 00:06:46.660 It does. Yeah. 00:06:46.660 --> 00:06:47.960 Okay. I'll just check that out. 00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:51.800 It's pretty sweet. That only works on Mac and it depends on which bindings, you know, 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.620 there's like multiple keyboard bindings. So maybe in the Vim one, there's like a different one. 00:06:55.620 --> 00:07:01.260 But if you go and you go find the menu command for like reformat document, it'll show you what the hockey is. 00:07:01.260 --> 00:07:06.220 And you can do better than that. You can actually right click on the project and say, 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:12.340 reformat the project. And it'll like traverse down into all the files and it'll reformat like everything. 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:19.000 So that's okay. But I don't know of a hockey for that, but you can like right click and say reformat this tree of stuff. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:21.360 Yeah. But if I'm doing a tree of stuff, I'll probably use black. 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:22.880 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 00:07:22.880 --> 00:07:29.640 I never use that, but generally command alt L or control alt L probably on windows or Linux. 00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:42.900 We'll do it. But black cell magic will add it to Jupyter. Now what's super annoying is you got to type that command every time on a cell and it does it one cell at a time. 00:07:42.900 --> 00:07:46.120 So if you've got a hundred cells, you got a lot of percent percent black you're typing. 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:57.820 There is a guy named Tobin Jones who wrote a npm package that will use this over top of it and reformat all of them. 00:07:57.820 --> 00:08:01.480 And I linked to the repo, but then when I go to it, it looks like it's archived. 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:04.860 So I have no idea whether it even works still or anything. I haven't tried that one. 00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:13.920 So people can check that out, but it would be nice if this was like leveled up to apply at least to a notebook, even if you run it on demand. 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.380 Yeah, definitely. It would be cool to be able to blackify a notebook. 00:08:17.380 --> 00:08:21.920 Yeah. But nonetheless, this is better than what it was before. So it's pretty good. 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:23.100 Do you know what else is really good? 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:23.520 What's that? 00:08:23.520 --> 00:08:27.660 Learning awesome Python from Talk Python training. 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:32.060 That is pretty awesome. Yeah. So this episode is brought to you by us again. 00:08:32.060 --> 00:08:36.980 And if you're in the market to learn Python, we've got a ton of courses. 00:08:36.980 --> 00:08:42.140 We're coming up on 200 hours of highly edited courses. So that's a ton of content. 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:47.680 And we have a special enterprise plan. So if you're looking for team training and team events that are online, digital, 00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:52.060 you know, just shoot me a message and I'll get you info about that. 00:08:52.060 --> 00:08:53.760 And pytest. 00:08:53.760 --> 00:09:01.100 Yeah, definitely. If you are considering pytest or considering testing your code, please do test that. 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:06.160 And I would like to actually highlight, I brought up, somebody made a nice comment today. 00:09:06.160 --> 00:09:07.580 I wanted to bring it up. 00:09:07.580 --> 00:09:15.600 Ken Ewens Clark, this came out a couple of days ago, says he picked up my book, Python Testing with pytest and started reading it. 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:20.800 He was excited. And just one hour later, he posted another comment and said, 00:09:21.180 --> 00:09:25.240 I've just finished the first chapter and I can see I've barely scratched the surface. 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.780 So I'm already learning something new in one chapter. 00:09:28.780 --> 00:09:29.340 So that's cool. 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:33.280 Yeah, that's really cool. Maybe help people test smarter, not harder. 00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:36.940 Yeah, well, actually, you know, that is the goal of the book. 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:43.860 But I also wanted to highlight an article by Luke Plant called Test Smarter, Not Harder. 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:46.540 And this is not like a huge article. 00:09:46.540 --> 00:09:48.720 It's some nice opinion. 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.900 I like opinionated testing articles. 00:09:50.900 --> 00:09:52.320 Good opinions there. 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.600 There's a lot of great advice, but I wanted to pull out a couple of his suggestions 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:00.040 because I don't think that they're talked about much. 00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:09.820 So the first suggestion that Luke has, or the first one I'm highlighting, is write your test code with the functions or methods or classes that you wish existed, 00:10:09.820 --> 00:10:11.380 not the ones you've been given. 00:10:11.380 --> 00:10:18.120 So if an API you want to use doesn't exist yet, you just use it anyway, but then you have to make it exist. 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.040 So this is actually huge advice, I think. 00:10:21.040 --> 00:10:27.960 And people don't really, I think they think about it while they're coding, that you try to write the code you want, the API you want, 00:10:27.960 --> 00:10:31.160 and then make it if it isn't there. 00:10:31.160 --> 00:10:33.660 But forget to do it while testing. 00:10:33.660 --> 00:10:41.260 And while testing, it's even more beneficial, I think, because you've got to be able to read your test code really fast and understand it quickly. 00:10:41.520 --> 00:10:49.640 The other thing I want to highlight with that is if you are responsible for the API or the API that you're testing against is something you control, 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:54.120 then pay attention to those tendencies to say, I really wish I had an easier API, 00:10:54.120 --> 00:11:00.480 because that might tell you that maybe that new API should exist and maybe you should add it to your interface. 00:11:00.800 --> 00:11:05.940 Yeah, I think this is one of the really big values of testing is that it lets you step back from the code you're writing 00:11:05.940 --> 00:11:12.280 and look at the API or the classes or library or whatever you're building, look at that from the outside and go, 00:11:12.280 --> 00:11:13.380 does that make sense? 00:11:13.380 --> 00:11:15.060 Is that the best way I want to use it? 00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:21.520 It's sort of your first chance to put it into practice as a consumer rather than a creator of it. 00:11:21.520 --> 00:11:27.360 So if you're not the person in control of the API and you're just using a different API, 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:34.020 you can write a wrapper around that to just highlight the thing that's important for the test 00:11:34.020 --> 00:11:39.240 and not have to pass in a bunch of stuff that doesn't matter to the test, but you have to pass it anyway. 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.280 I think those are great suggestions. 00:11:41.280 --> 00:11:51.100 The next suggestion is only write necessary tests, specifically tests whose estimated value is greater than their estimated cost. 00:11:51.540 --> 00:11:58.200 This is a judgment call, of course, but it does mean that at least some of the time you should be saying this test isn't worth it. 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:02.700 And now this is a controversial sort of opinion, but I go by this. 00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:08.060 And if you have trouble convincing the people that you have to convince to skip a test, 00:12:08.060 --> 00:12:13.380 you can just say I'm prioritizing my tests and that one's lower on the priority. 00:12:13.380 --> 00:12:15.180 Maybe we can get to it later. 00:12:15.180 --> 00:12:16.980 The flip side of this, that's good advice. 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:24.000 The flip side is that I think is not initially thought of by a lot of folks is you have to maintain your tests as your code changes. 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:28.900 I mean, if you've got a static API and it's just fixed and it's on PyPI, it's fine. 00:12:28.900 --> 00:12:33.740 But if this is an application you're building, you might dramatically change the way things work. 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:41.580 And when you do that, you might have to rewrite your test to correspond with that, to recreate objects in some new way or whatever. 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:50.300 And the more maintenance burden that your tests carry, the less you're going to like writing tests and the less you're going to keep them running. 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:54.380 And so it's not just, is it worth the value of creating the test? 00:12:54.380 --> 00:12:58.060 It's worth the value of creating and living with that test. 00:12:58.060 --> 00:12:58.400 Yeah. 00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:03.420 Test code has the same maintenance cost or more maintenance cost than production code. 00:13:03.420 --> 00:13:07.120 Also, different parts of your workflow. 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:12.560 So early on in a project, you're really learning how to do the problem and you're learning about the code. 00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:15.180 So write tests that help you with that learning. 00:13:15.180 --> 00:13:19.200 Don't write tests that solidify the API so it's hard to change. 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:20.040 That's the point. 00:13:20.040 --> 00:13:20.980 Yeah. 00:13:20.980 --> 00:13:24.560 Write the ones that help you learn about your code while you're putting it together. 00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:25.100 Very nice. 00:13:25.100 --> 00:13:27.780 So this podcast is pretty awesome. 00:13:27.780 --> 00:13:33.900 And for episode 200, I wanted to get something good, a package that's good to talk about. 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:35.960 It might be the greatest package of all time. 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:36.360 Really? 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.900 Well, it's self-proclaimed. 00:13:37.900 --> 00:13:39.780 So a bit of a grain of salt. 00:13:39.780 --> 00:13:41.700 It sounds really simple. 00:13:41.920 --> 00:13:44.780 It has a crazy name and it actually is really quite useful. 00:13:44.780 --> 00:13:50.160 So this next one is called US, as in the United States, the greatest package in the world. 00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:51.940 That's literally the name of it. 00:13:51.940 --> 00:13:54.880 So this goes to us. 00:13:54.880 --> 00:13:55.520 Yeah. 00:13:55.520 --> 00:13:58.640 So Jerry Carbaugh reached out to us and said, hey, I created this package. 00:13:58.640 --> 00:13:59.040 I don't know. 00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:00.100 You think it's useful or not? 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:01.140 I'm like, oh, okay. 00:14:01.140 --> 00:14:01.940 It's kind of interesting. 00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:08.000 It's a Python package on PyPI for working with states. 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:11.420 States, zip codes, those types of things. 00:14:11.420 --> 00:14:12.300 And the United States. 00:14:12.300 --> 00:14:13.020 Right? 00:14:13.020 --> 00:14:13.300 Okay. 00:14:13.300 --> 00:14:21.160 And it seems like this could be motivation for things like the EU or some other place where 00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:22.900 you want to understand the geography of it. 00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:25.080 But this is really quite involved. 00:14:25.460 --> 00:14:29.000 So I envision like, okay, well, maybe it's got like a list of the states and it's got the 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:30.240 abbreviation or something. 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.520 It's got that. 00:14:31.520 --> 00:14:32.720 It's got all the territories. 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.540 It has the postal abbreviations. 00:14:35.000 --> 00:14:39.040 It has associated press style abbreviations, which I don't really know. 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:40.440 It has FIPS codes. 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.220 I have no idea what FIPS codes are, but they're like lookup codes, different kinds of lookups 00:14:44.220 --> 00:14:44.660 you can do. 00:14:44.660 --> 00:14:44.980 Okay. 00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:47.780 Capitals, the year of statehood, the time zones. 00:14:47.780 --> 00:14:50.180 You can even do phonetic name lookup. 00:14:50.180 --> 00:14:54.320 So like if you can't spell Mississippi, but you can make Mississippi sounds with letters, 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.980 you can put that in there and it'll go and find it. 00:14:56.980 --> 00:15:01.960 So like it basically do like lookups on misspellings, but if you get it like sounding right, it can 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:02.680 still find it. 00:15:02.680 --> 00:15:07.820 So maybe you accept typed input or some text field that says the state, but then you can 00:15:07.820 --> 00:15:15.320 do a lookup on that to get a more canonical representation, whether the state is contiguous, like Oregon, 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.540 all one thing stuck together or a very nice place like Hawaii. 00:15:19.540 --> 00:15:24.800 That's broken into a bunch of islands where there's continental or not similar difference 00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:25.060 there. 00:15:25.060 --> 00:15:26.400 That's pretty cool. 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:32.420 If you want the geographic boundaries of them for like geospatial work, it comes with 00:15:32.420 --> 00:15:35.040 URLs to shape files that come out of the U S census. 00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:36.800 At least they're accurate up to 2010. 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:37.300 Okay. 00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:40.000 Well, also one of the flags is, is obsolete. 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.160 I was wondering if there's obsolete states. 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:43.780 There are obsolete states. 00:15:43.780 --> 00:15:44.400 Yeah. 00:15:44.400 --> 00:15:47.340 So I think more territories are obsolete. 00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:51.680 I don't think there's states that are obsolete, but there's territories that are, for example, like 00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:56.760 the Philippines, I think used to be a U S territory, but it's no longer something like that. 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:58.220 There's a few examples in the docs. 00:15:58.220 --> 00:15:59.000 Oh, okay. 00:15:59.000 --> 00:15:59.480 Cool. 00:15:59.480 --> 00:15:59.720 Yeah. 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:06.040 And they also have a, an environment variable to indicate whether Washington DC becomes a 00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:06.300 state. 00:16:06.300 --> 00:16:09.420 You can set a flag that will like trigger that to show up. 00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:11.520 So it's like future proof a little bit. 00:16:11.520 --> 00:16:11.800 Okay. 00:16:11.800 --> 00:16:12.820 And it has a CLI. 00:16:12.820 --> 00:16:19.100 So you could type states space MD for Maryland and you'll get a big, long description of information 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:19.540 about it. 00:16:19.540 --> 00:16:22.020 Well, with the prefix of the great state of. 00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:22.820 Yeah. 00:16:22.820 --> 00:16:23.580 That's interesting. 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:26.800 So is this more than you expected out of it? 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:30.300 Like when I thought, I thought it would just be like a list of states and stuff, but like 00:16:30.300 --> 00:16:32.660 all this lookup, all this information, this is pretty awesome. 00:16:32.660 --> 00:16:32.980 Actually. 00:16:32.980 --> 00:16:33.740 It's pretty in depth. 00:16:33.820 --> 00:16:34.860 Well, no, it's pretty cool. 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:38.440 I just didn't, I don't know if I'd say it's the greatest package in the world. 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:39.540 Oh, all right. 00:16:39.540 --> 00:16:41.060 Well, there's always a PR. 00:16:41.060 --> 00:16:46.880 You could always a pretty good package with respect to state management in the world. 00:16:46.880 --> 00:16:47.180 Yeah. 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:47.400 Yeah. 00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:47.580 Okay. 00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:51.660 No, actually, if you work with states, this seems super useful, regardless of whether you 00:16:51.660 --> 00:16:52.300 agree with the name. 00:16:52.300 --> 00:16:54.600 Yeah. 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:58.860 I've got kids that are at home right now. 00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:03.520 One that's a started school, but started school like online. 00:17:03.780 --> 00:17:08.160 So it's a, it's sort of an anticlimactic big beginning to school. 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:08.860 Yeah. 00:17:08.860 --> 00:17:14.520 And we still have like some, a lot of time that they're devoting that I'm glad they're doing 00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:14.700 this. 00:17:14.700 --> 00:17:18.320 They're allowing teachers sometime during the, during the week to prepare for all of this, 00:17:18.320 --> 00:17:21.560 which means they've got kids have more free time than they had before. 00:17:21.560 --> 00:17:26.980 So one of the things I was looking for was good learning software coding related learning 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:32.800 activities for kids that are, have some spare time, especially early on in the school year. 00:17:33.060 --> 00:17:34.900 I can't remember who suggested this. 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:40.880 Somebody on Twitter suggested this, but there's a video series that's part of Ted Ed that's 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.260 called think like a coder. 00:17:42.260 --> 00:17:47.620 The title says it's a 10 episode series that will challenge viewers with programming puzzles 00:17:47.620 --> 00:17:54.920 as the main character, a girl and her robot companion attempted to save the world that has been plunged 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:55.620 into turmoil. 00:17:55.620 --> 00:17:59.700 So I was trying to evaluate whether or not to highlight this on the show. 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:03.000 And I got like four episodes in just this morning. 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.940 Although it says it's a 10 episode series, but I only count nine. 00:18:06.940 --> 00:18:07.460 It's zero. 00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:08.460 It's you start counting. 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:09.500 It's a zero base. 00:18:09.500 --> 00:18:12.060 So it's off by one for programmers. 00:18:12.060 --> 00:18:13.440 I don't know. 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:14.780 It doesn't really teach. 00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:17.240 I haven't got at least the first four episodes. 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.720 It doesn't teach like actual coding, but it talks about the concepts. 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.680 And that's what I really like about it. 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.720 It's an interesting story. 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:30.980 The animation is pretty good, but it'll introduce words and terms like loops for loops and tell 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:37.640 loops, while loops, conditionals, variables, path logic, permutations, how to do searches, 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:42.300 tables and recursion, and even some big O notation and some other things. 00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:48.200 But these are like terms that in software and in programming, we use all the time and just 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:50.240 assume everybody knows what we're talking about. 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:55.460 One of the things I really like about this is just defining and using those terms in an 00:18:55.460 --> 00:19:00.660 entertaining story so that when you really do start learning how to code, it's not going 00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:01.320 to be surprised. 00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:03.460 Highlight with that. 00:19:03.460 --> 00:19:09.480 I'm also reading to my daughter a book that I picked up called Girls Who Code, Learn to 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:11.140 Code and Change the World. 00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:13.260 And it's a lot of inspiration. 00:19:13.660 --> 00:19:19.560 There's actually a Girls Who Code project that does teaching and stuff, but I don't know 00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:20.980 what they're doing right now during COVID. 00:19:20.980 --> 00:19:25.160 But the book is great and it's not any language specific stuff. 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.200 I think there is some Python in there, but that's not really the focus of it. 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:34.440 The focus really is teaching a lot of the concepts and just getting people excited about it. 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:36.120 So I wanted to highlight these two. 00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:37.180 That's one of the biggest challenges. 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.820 It's getting people feeling like this is interesting and this is for me and I should pay attention to 00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:42.120 it. 00:19:43.300 --> 00:19:43.560 Yeah. 00:19:43.560 --> 00:19:44.300 That's cool. 00:19:44.300 --> 00:19:48.420 Also, I want to throw a shout out to CodeCombat.com. 00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:53.460 That's another really nice place that sort of has some of these ideas, go through and do 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.800 like a little dungeon exploration and solve problems. 00:19:56.800 --> 00:19:59.240 I think it would be a good follow on to this series. 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:04.720 Like you've got the ideas from the series and then you can go write like super editor supported 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.680 Python code to like in a little game world. 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:08.620 So that'd be fun. 00:20:08.620 --> 00:20:08.860 Yeah. 00:20:08.860 --> 00:20:09.740 Yeah. 00:20:09.740 --> 00:20:11.620 We'll link to all that in the show notes. 00:20:11.620 --> 00:20:11.860 Absolutely. 00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:15.280 So this next one is interesting. 00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:19.080 I ran across this just a few days ago and I thought, oh, I definitely want to talk about 00:20:19.080 --> 00:20:25.020 this because how many programmers out there have this idea of I've been building this software 00:20:25.020 --> 00:20:26.560 for other people, for other companies. 00:20:26.560 --> 00:20:31.120 And I just want to, I have this idea and it doesn't exist and I want to build it and put 00:20:31.120 --> 00:20:32.080 it out there into the world. 00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:37.080 Like surely almost every programmer has had this, this idea of some in some form or other, 00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:37.360 right? 00:20:37.460 --> 00:20:37.660 Yeah. 00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:37.960 Yeah. 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:44.600 So there's this project that is a pretty new project that goes along its path and it's 00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:45.620 called keep the score. 00:20:45.620 --> 00:20:48.800 So keep the score is like online software for scorekeeping. 00:20:48.800 --> 00:20:56.200 Basically, if you've got like a soccer tournament, rock climbing competition, whatever, like those 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:57.440 things probably don't exist anymore. 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:02.160 But when we could be around other humans and when we can, again, this is going to make 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:02.700 a lot of sense. 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:08.080 You could have like a, a little online scoreboard that the parents could pull up and keep track 00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:10.180 of or whatever, something like this. 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:10.380 Right. 00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:12.280 That's basically what this app is. 00:21:12.280 --> 00:21:16.780 It's a Python flask app and they wrote a blog post called the cost of running a Python 00:21:16.780 --> 00:21:19.320 web app with 55,000 monthly users. 00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:19.660 Okay. 00:21:19.660 --> 00:21:23.800 So this explores like the infrastructure and how much did it cost to actually put it together? 00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:25.520 how are they doing it? 00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:26.100 And so on. 00:21:26.100 --> 00:21:29.820 So I thought it might be fun to just kind of talk through that a little bit and then do 00:21:29.820 --> 00:21:32.480 maybe a little comparison over to some of the talk Python stuff. 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:32.980 All right. 00:21:32.980 --> 00:21:33.680 Yeah. 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.280 So I'm leaking over the thing. 00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:36.080 Their site's pretty cool. 00:21:36.080 --> 00:21:40.700 It's hosted on digital ocean as is all of our stuff, Python bites, talk Python and whatnot. 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:43.480 So that's a really fair comparison that I'll make. 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:48.600 And they're using digital ocean and Firebase currently have around 55,000 unique visitors 00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:52.120 and they have their servers and database over on digital ocean. 00:21:52.120 --> 00:21:56.900 And I think they might be using Postgres as a service on digital ocean rather than hosting 00:21:56.900 --> 00:21:58.560 their own database server. 00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:02.200 From what I can tell, they also have Amazon web services. 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:02.760 Yeah. 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:06.960 So for the numbers, digital ocean has cost them about $95 a month. 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.560 They have some AWS metabase stuff running over there. 00:22:10.620 --> 00:22:13.120 It's $60 a month for like reporting and whatnot. 00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:17.920 They have Google cloud for a whopping $1.32 at Firebase. 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:20.740 DNS hosting of $5. 00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:22.880 Discuss $10. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.320 They said, of course, you can have a free one, but they put ads there and they don't like 00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:26.580 that. 00:22:26.580 --> 00:22:27.880 So $10. 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:29.500 They're paying for that. 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:33.800 And they said, well, okay, that's $171 a month. 00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:36.040 Is this worthwhile? 00:22:36.040 --> 00:22:42.720 Obviously, if you were Roden Schwartz or you're Talk Python training, like it would be obviously 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:44.540 $171, like no big deal. 00:22:44.540 --> 00:22:44.940 Right. 00:22:45.620 --> 00:22:49.580 But this guy points out like, I'm an indie developer. 00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:51.500 I have no revenue yet. 00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:55.740 And I'm just trying to get this thing off the ground and I'm paying $171 a month. 00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:59.280 But that's a lot of money for just trying to do something nice for everybody. 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:00.140 Yeah, I agree. 00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:03.040 And it's mostly free and they're trying to figure out the monetization. 00:23:03.040 --> 00:23:05.020 And I think it's a cool project. 00:23:05.020 --> 00:23:07.420 I actually hope they're successful and it's cool they're building it with Python. 00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:09.000 But I don't know. 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:09.880 It's an interesting trade-off. 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:13.760 I feel like so many people, I don't want this to sound at all critical of this guy. 00:23:13.760 --> 00:23:16.440 Like what he's doing, it's working for him and that's great. 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:22.680 But I feel like a lot of people just in general, not necessarily this example, they envision 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:27.520 a world where like things are so much bigger and more powerful and more awesome or more 00:23:27.520 --> 00:23:29.620 like there's more users and it's like more awesome. 00:23:29.620 --> 00:23:34.860 And they got to be ready for that because when they get, when they land on like Hacker News 00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:40.280 and all the people come, they've got to be ready for like a 50x traffic and stuff like 00:23:40.280 --> 00:23:40.500 that. 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:44.800 And I don't necessarily think that that's how it goes or, you know, if you're in the cloud, 00:23:44.800 --> 00:23:46.860 something like that happens. 00:23:46.860 --> 00:23:48.420 Just push the make it bigger button. 00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:51.000 And then it goes like, you don't have to do that beforehand. 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.480 And actually one of the things they said they ran into is they started out with a smaller 00:23:56.480 --> 00:24:00.740 server and they said, oh, we want to make sure we have a bigger server just in case. 00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:01.780 And they upscaled it. 00:24:01.780 --> 00:24:07.320 And part of that upscaling like changes the, I think it was probably the file system got 00:24:07.320 --> 00:24:08.740 larger, the disk got larger. 00:24:08.740 --> 00:24:11.460 And once that happens, you can't downscale it again. 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:16.400 You're like stuck without, unless you recreate it from scratch, you can't downscale it again. 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.520 And so they have two servers. 00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:20.580 They're like deploying to one. 00:24:20.580 --> 00:24:24.280 And while they're deploying to one, they take the floating, the elastic IP and they switch 00:24:24.280 --> 00:24:26.920 it over to another one that's keeps it running. 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:31.080 And then they deploy to the other one and it switches it over to the, like, there's like 00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:33.260 this back and forth swap going on. 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:37.400 And that's actually how I do it at Talk Python on training site and stuff like that as well. 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:39.660 Having like two servers. 00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:44.260 That said, this feels really high to me. 00:24:44.260 --> 00:24:46.540 I'll give you some stats on Talk Python. 00:24:46.540 --> 00:24:52.240 Just talkpython.fm, the website for the podcast, not the training site, not Python Bytes. 00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:57.620 The reason I chose Talk Python is it's very similar to the numbers that this guy is using 00:24:57.620 --> 00:24:58.540 on the same infrastructure. 00:24:58.540 --> 00:25:01.380 So Talk Python gets about 40,000 monthly visitors. 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:07.500 It's super hard to talk about unique monthly visitors because so many developers, especially 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.840 in the developer space, because so many people have ad blocking turned on, which is how you, 00:25:11.840 --> 00:25:16.700 you know, like third party cookies from apps like Clicky or whatever, say you get this many 00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:19.800 visitors and like 50% of that's blocked or something. 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:20.040 Right. 00:25:20.040 --> 00:25:23.280 So anyway, you got to kind of estimate like, well, how much is blocked? 00:25:23.280 --> 00:25:24.640 Is it 30% or who knows? 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:30.840 So anyway, it's around similar numbers, a little bit smaller in terms of visitors, but the podcast 00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:32.760 clients, oh my goodness. 00:25:32.760 --> 00:25:35.960 The podcast clients are crazy. 00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:39.300 They're just pounding the server like all the time asking for the RSS feed. 00:25:39.300 --> 00:25:43.600 So we get about 3 million requests for the RSS feed monthly. 00:25:43.600 --> 00:25:46.320 That goes through, it goes through Python. 00:25:46.320 --> 00:25:48.120 It talks, it does some database stuff. 00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:50.060 It talks over the database and it gives back an answer. 00:25:50.060 --> 00:25:55.120 I could cache that as a file, but then there would be like latency and inconsistent. 00:25:55.120 --> 00:25:57.560 I just, there's no need to not have that happen. 00:25:57.560 --> 00:25:57.780 Right. 00:25:57.780 --> 00:25:59.180 But that, that does. 00:25:59.180 --> 00:25:59.420 Right. 00:25:59.420 --> 00:26:01.900 So that comes through and that's about 120 K requests. 00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:07.780 So that's 320 gigs of traffic and 3 million requests just to answer the question. 00:26:07.780 --> 00:26:09.400 Can I go download the file? 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:11.680 Which is much bigger month of weekly. 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:12.280 You know what I mean? 00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:16.660 So that's a ton of traffic and the servers back in that. 00:26:16.660 --> 00:26:19.400 I have two servers cause I do this flip as well. 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:20.300 So there's zero downtime. 00:26:20.300 --> 00:26:21.000 Most of the time. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:23.060 One of them is a $5 server. 00:26:23.060 --> 00:26:29.420 And because I wanted to splurge, the main one is $10 because, Hey, this is my whole business. 00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:34.260 Like it's worth five extra dollars a month, but it could easily handle it on five, on five bucks. 00:26:34.260 --> 00:26:40.500 So for example, I have it pulled up right now and it's running at like 8% CP usage, 6%. 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:41.440 You know, it kind of varies. 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:41.680 Right. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:42.580 Right now. 00:26:42.580 --> 00:26:46.100 If it was on the $5 one, it would be like 12%. 00:26:46.100 --> 00:26:46.980 It would still be fine. 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:51.380 And then there's also a dedicated MongoDB server that handles everything, but that's like $10. 00:26:51.380 --> 00:26:53.460 Total cost, 25 bucks. 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:53.760 Okay. 00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:55.600 Well, 25 is, okay. 00:26:55.600 --> 00:26:56.240 Okay. 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:57.200 Devil's advocate here. 00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.400 $25 is way better than 171, but even $25. 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:00.920 Yeah. 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:05.200 I could do it at 20 if I wanted, if I, if I just went down to the $5 server, which I could, 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:13.320 but even at 20 a month, that's what a $240 a year for trying to do something nice and free 00:27:13.320 --> 00:27:13.940 for everybody. 00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:14.620 Yeah, I know. 00:27:14.620 --> 00:27:19.940 What's really lucky is that I don't have to pay for the bandwidth for the stuff going 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.660 through digital ocean. 00:27:20.660 --> 00:27:24.860 Cause that would be like another thousand dollars a month at least, but that's included. 00:27:24.860 --> 00:27:25.440 So it's fine. 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.500 I feel like you could turn stuff down a lot. 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:33.480 Like for example, I think he's using Postgres as a service, which is probably, I don't know, 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:34.900 I'm sure there's probably 50 bucks a month. 00:27:34.900 --> 00:27:39.380 You could probably put that on a $5 server and just manage Postgres yourself. 00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:39.720 Okay. 00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:40.520 Is that worthwhile? 00:27:40.520 --> 00:27:41.080 I don't know. 00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:46.120 Like how much of a pain is that to manage yourself versus like, how do you do backups and all that 00:27:46.120 --> 00:27:46.440 kind of stuff. 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:51.920 But in the really early stages, I think you, if you're worried that the extra $100 a month 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.780 is a big deal, you know, maybe you do it that way. 00:27:54.780 --> 00:27:58.460 Also though, by the way, my AWS bill is over a thousand dollars last month. 00:27:58.460 --> 00:28:00.340 So, but that's just video delivery. 00:28:00.340 --> 00:28:02.440 That's a different story. 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:03.120 That's just bandwidth. 00:28:03.120 --> 00:28:05.300 That's, and that's because of the training. 00:28:05.300 --> 00:28:05.880 Yeah. 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:06.540 Yeah. 00:28:06.540 --> 00:28:06.700 Yeah. 00:28:06.700 --> 00:28:07.060 Okay. 00:28:07.060 --> 00:28:08.440 So I could do it cheaper. 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.980 I could do it a lot cheaper, but it would be less good for people. 00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:14.040 And for that, I'm trying to pick the best possible option. 00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:15.940 So that's how that goes. 00:28:16.040 --> 00:28:21.420 But anyway, I think it's interesting to sort of think about like, what does it cost? 00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:25.000 And your point about if I'm doing something nice for everyone, right? 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:26.520 It should cost less. 00:28:26.520 --> 00:28:26.800 Yeah. 00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:33.600 Well, I mean, you know, motivation doesn't really get into it, but it's a very real thing. 00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:39.180 It's a barrier to entry for, for people that maybe that, I mean, they had to scrape together 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:42.080 just to get the laptop in the first place to start coding. 00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:42.600 And yeah. 00:28:42.600 --> 00:28:48.280 And if you're not in like a Western democratic place where currency is pretty valuable or the 00:28:48.280 --> 00:28:54.260 pay rate is pretty high, all of a sudden $175 could be 25% of your monthly income, which 00:28:54.260 --> 00:28:55.880 that's a huge number, right? 00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:56.300 Yeah. 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:56.560 Yeah. 00:28:56.560 --> 00:28:58.900 So it could definitely vary depending on where you're located. 00:28:58.900 --> 00:28:59.800 Yeah. 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:01.220 Anyway, pretty, pretty cool. 00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:05.760 I think it's worth looking at and digging into, and I wish them the best of luck with this project 00:29:05.760 --> 00:29:07.520 because it seems cool and it's built Python. 00:29:07.520 --> 00:29:12.260 Finally, if you want to hear like a deep dive into all this stuff that I was talking about, 00:29:12.260 --> 00:29:16.840 Dan Bader and I had a long chat about the infrastructure behind Talk Python and some behind 00:29:16.840 --> 00:29:19.680 real Python over on Talk Python 215. 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:21.000 I'll link to that as well. 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.080 That's pretty serious, man. 00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:22.940 We should do something funny. 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:23.320 Yes. 00:29:23.320 --> 00:29:24.500 Tell me a joke. 00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:25.320 Okay. 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:30.620 So somebody shared this with us on Twitter and originally Netlify posted it. 00:29:30.620 --> 00:29:32.460 It's a conversation between two people. 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:34.280 Oh no, we lost the hackers. 00:29:34.280 --> 00:29:35.400 Where did they go? 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:36.620 I don't know. 00:29:36.620 --> 00:29:37.880 They just ran somewhere. 00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:40.080 They just ran somewhere. 00:29:40.080 --> 00:29:44.340 That's so awesome because I didn't get that joke reading it, but when you say it like, 00:29:44.340 --> 00:29:45.520 oh yeah, perfect. 00:29:45.520 --> 00:29:52.020 Well, I'm very concerned about making sure that everybody has a happy work environment and 00:29:52.020 --> 00:29:52.700 that they're safe. 00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:56.020 And I've had to fill out some contracts and stuff. 00:29:56.020 --> 00:29:57.360 It's so ridiculous, man. 00:29:57.360 --> 00:30:02.560 I've had to fill out like vendor stuff for podcast advertising and they make me go through their 00:30:02.560 --> 00:30:05.460 stupid vendor onboarding thing at some of these big companies. 00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:09.280 And I've got to answer like the general vendor information. 00:30:09.840 --> 00:30:11.220 So what is your information? 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:12.500 Like what is your location? 00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:16.020 What is your bank account information so we can pay you? 00:30:16.020 --> 00:30:20.460 What is your OSHA health policy? 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:25.840 Is there a chance that somebody is like, are there dangerous ladders that people could climb? 00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:27.580 Will it be forklifts? 00:30:27.580 --> 00:30:29.920 I'm like, dude, this is podcast advertising. 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.800 There's no ladders and there's definitely no forklifts. 00:30:32.800 --> 00:30:35.820 Why are you sending me this huge 50 page form? 00:30:35.820 --> 00:30:38.060 I got to fill out like two pages apply to me. 00:30:38.060 --> 00:30:41.880 Anyway, let's take this and turn it into the programming joke. 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:48.680 So, you know, you've seen those like number of days since serious injury at factory seven. 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:49.460 We're doing great. 00:30:49.460 --> 00:30:50.500 Nobody hurt this week. 00:30:50.500 --> 00:30:53.340 So how about this for our programming sign? 00:30:53.340 --> 00:30:57.040 Number of days since I've encountered an array index error. 00:30:57.040 --> 00:30:58.540 Negative one. 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:02.080 I love this joke. 00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:03.300 It's a good joke, right? 00:31:03.300 --> 00:31:03.660 Yeah. 00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:06.320 Negative one. 00:31:06.320 --> 00:31:10.280 So that's really big because you probably overflow. 00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:12.040 Well, you don't know how big though. 00:31:12.040 --> 00:31:13.980 Is it a short and unsigned? 00:31:13.980 --> 00:31:16.800 Is it like a, if it's a short, it's like negative 32,000. 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:20.040 But if it's a long, that's a really huge number. 00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:24.740 It's like 4.2 billion, 9 billion, whatever the overflow wrap is there. 00:31:24.740 --> 00:31:27.640 They probably just allocated a byte for it. 00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:31.940 So it's like 255 or whatever. 00:31:31.940 --> 00:31:32.220 Yeah. 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:32.540 Yeah. 00:31:32.540 --> 00:31:33.240 Less than a year. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.280 Awesome. 00:31:35.280 --> 00:31:36.440 All right. 00:31:36.440 --> 00:31:38.040 Well, thanks, Brian. 00:31:38.040 --> 00:31:39.560 Congratulations on 200, man. 00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:40.240 Thank you. 00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.060 Oh, we overflowed. 00:31:42.060 --> 00:31:44.020 We're into the 200s now. 00:31:44.020 --> 00:31:45.660 Congratulations. 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:46.480 Oh, wait. 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:48.580 Let's celebrate on 256. 00:31:48.580 --> 00:31:49.760 Yes, we will. 00:31:49.760 --> 00:31:51.400 That's going to be the full cycle. 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:51.960 Yeah. 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:52.260 Yeah. 00:31:52.260 --> 00:31:52.660 Awesome. 00:31:52.660 --> 00:31:53.180 All right. 00:31:53.180 --> 00:31:53.740 Well, thanks again. 00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:54.160 Thank you. 00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:54.560 Bye. 00:31:54.560 --> 00:31:56.320 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:31:56.600 --> 00:31:58.760 Follow the show on Twitter at Python Bytes. 00:31:58.760 --> 00:32:01.800 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:32:01.800 --> 00:32:04.700 And get the full show notes at Python Bytes.fm. 00:32:04.700 --> 00:32:09.760 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit Python Bytes.fm and send it our way. 00:32:09.760 --> 00:32:11.800 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:32:11.800 --> 00:32:12.980 This is Brian Okken. 00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:17.060 And on behalf of myself and Michael Kennedy, thank you for listening and sharing this podcast 00:32:17.060 --> 00:32:18.240 with your friends and colleagues.