WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.300 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.300 --> 00:00:10.520 your earbuds. This is episode 228, recorded April 7th, 2021. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:11.720 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:13.120 And I'm Guy Royce. 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:17.900 Hey, Guy. Welcome. Special guest Guy Royce here to be part of the show this week. 00:00:17.900 --> 00:00:18.800 Thanks for having me. 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:19.480 It's exciting. 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:20.700 I know that's what they all say, right? 00:00:20.700 --> 00:00:27.600 It's great to have you here, though. You know, we met on a panel at the Python Web Conference, 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:33.520 and we recently had Calvin Hendryx-Parker here who was organizing that as well. So, 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.640 you know, a little more Python Web Conference going on. 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:37.980 Yeah, it was a good event. 00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:41.540 Absolutely. You want to tell folks a bit about yourself before we jump into the topics? 00:00:41.540 --> 00:00:45.980 Yeah, sure. You know, you can see my name right here on the screen, but for those listening to 00:00:45.980 --> 00:00:51.240 the podcast, my name's Guy. Yes, it's my real name. I sometimes get asked if it's short for something. 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.560 It's not, in fact, short for Guy Tholomew. It's actually just my name, Guy. 00:00:56.120 --> 00:01:01.940 I work for Redis Labs. I'm a developer advocate there, and I've been doing developer relations 00:01:01.940 --> 00:01:05.760 type of work for, you know, I've been paid to do it for about five years. I've been doing it 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:12.220 unpaid, as an unpaid just fan of doing community things for about 10 years on top of that. So, 00:01:12.220 --> 00:01:18.500 a lot of different tech stacks. I'm not really a Python person by trade. I tend to spend more time 00:01:18.500 --> 00:01:20.640 in the vile, vile JavaScript space. 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:25.160 The other very popular language these days. 00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:31.720 It is. But I know a lot of different things. I'm a bit of a generalist, so I do Python as well. 00:01:31.720 --> 00:01:35.160 Fantastic. How do you enjoy being a developer evangelist? It seems like a really fun job. 00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:40.320 Well, I like to joke that the best thing about being a developer advocate is that it lets me 00:01:40.320 --> 00:01:48.720 monetize my narcissism. But the reality of it is, I mean, it's actually a lot more work than you would 00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:53.760 think. It is fun, but there's a lot of challenge there. You know, I spent a lot of my time making 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:59.020 content, advocating with the product group for, you know, the ways that we should change Redis and our 00:01:59.020 --> 00:02:04.740 clients and that kind of stuff. And also going out and speaking at events. This obviously has been a 00:02:04.740 --> 00:02:05.740 very weird year for that. 00:02:05.740 --> 00:02:07.080 Yeah, it has. 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:13.560 But, you know, that's a lot to balance. It's actually kind of a lot of hats to wear. And there's a degree 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:18.080 where we're being a generalist is very useful. Like today, I'm spending a lot of time working on a 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.400 .NET course, helping someone out with that because I've got some .NET experience. But, you know, it's, 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.760 but then I'm doing stuff in JavaScript and then, oh, let's look at graph databases. And so I'm just 00:02:27.760 --> 00:02:28.960 looking at different things all the time. 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.960 And you got dragged to this Python podcast as well. 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:33.980 Yeah. And then someone thinks I know Python and put me on this podcast. 00:02:33.980 --> 00:02:36.420 You've got a couple of good items to talk about. I think that'd be good. 00:02:36.420 --> 00:02:37.580 Yeah. 00:02:37.580 --> 00:02:41.160 All right. Well, cool. Welcome. Brian, you want to kick us off here? 00:02:41.160 --> 00:02:44.580 I can't believe it's already March. I was going to say it's already March. 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:46.560 It's almost March and it's actually blown out. So. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:54.560 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So here's an article called How to Make Awesome Python Package. How to Make an Awesome Python 00:02:54.560 --> 00:03:01.040 Package in 2021. And this is, I really love this article because it's kind of my workflow. 00:03:01.040 --> 00:03:06.560 I've just never written it down. And so I'm really grateful for Anton for writing it down. 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:13.560 I'm also grateful to John Mitchell on Twitter to post that so that I could see it. So it's great. 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:18.960 I really love it. Anyway. Well, so what is this? It isn't about how to make an awesome package. 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:25.060 It's all of the extra stuff. It's the workflow. So we, he starts and he starts just like at the basics, 00:03:25.060 --> 00:03:30.980 just stubbing a package. And I really actually really liked that. This is, this is where you start. So 00:03:30.980 --> 00:03:38.600 the start was in unique, just grabbing a directory and stubbing it out and then having an, a, a, 00:03:38.600 --> 00:03:45.160 a __init__() file and a, an initial file that just does like, has one function you can call just so that 00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:50.640 it's something there. And it actually throws a, a, not, not implemented yet exception, which is, 00:03:50.640 --> 00:03:57.180 that's a great thing to throw. Right. And then pardon the birds. Like anyway, 00:03:57.180 --> 00:04:01.120 Brian's recorded from Hawaii and he's didn't like the forest. So it's fine. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:06.160 Yeah. He's got a virtual background to make it look more, more, more tropical birds. Yeah. 00:04:06.160 --> 00:04:14.140 Yeah. So then using flit to, to, to package it up and then go ahead and publish, not publish for real 00:04:14.140 --> 00:04:20.660 published to the test by PI repository, which I love this workflow of, if you're going to plan on 00:04:20.660 --> 00:04:26.880 sharing something, just go ahead and do this right away. The one thing missing there is go ahead and 00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:32.980 check the real PI PI to make sure your project name isn't taken already or else the test might work, 00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:38.460 but your real one won't. So adding that in is a good step, but then I'm blown away at some of the 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:43.620 Python packages that are still available, like secure, right? I mean, that's not available now, 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:48.360 but there was a thing that got, got to just call it, call itself secure. Like a couple of years ago, 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.640 how is that still a thing? Right. Oh my God. Yeah. So one of the, one of the tricks with doing the test 00:04:53.640 --> 00:05:01.820 PI PI PI though is getting your, is, getting the PI PI RC correct. So it, he talks about how to do 00:05:01.820 --> 00:05:08.600 that. and then publishing using flip publish. and then, you know, adding, adding more detail, 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:13.860 like, now you actually have to implement it. So, an implementation of something and then push to 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:20.220 the real repository. And then, you know, then all the, everything else is like extras. And he lists them 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:26.460 as appendices almost, like adding a read me and a change log and, and then, you know, 00:05:26.460 --> 00:05:32.960 linters and tests testing, you should maybe test earlier than this, but, setting up talks and make 00:05:32.960 --> 00:05:38.960 files and cloud building and the whole gamut. So this is a really great, comprehensive article. 00:05:38.960 --> 00:05:44.020 And you can, what I like is you can start at the beginning. And if you're not even publishing publicly, 00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:49.560 if you're just publishing in-house, this still makes sense up to, up to a certain point. So this is great. 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.500 Yeah. It looks like really good advice. I love having a well-structured projects where, 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:57.120 you know, if I have a problem or there's something I want to do, I know right where to go. I don't 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:01.420 need to go through all the coders. Like here's the 50 lines of code that could possibly be about this. 00:06:01.420 --> 00:06:03.760 Let me go find it and get started. Guy, what do you do? 00:06:03.760 --> 00:06:09.740 I, this is, I like that it's an awesome Python package and it's not about the contents. It's about 00:06:09.740 --> 00:06:14.720 the stuff around it, right? This is the kind of stuff that is just noobs need this, right? 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:19.360 Yeah. It's just, these are exactly the sorts of resources I like to find. It's the, here's the 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:24.100 canonical way to do this thing. well, right. And a lot of times the tutorials are like, well, 00:06:24.100 --> 00:06:28.380 create the one file and that's what you do. And then off you go. And I feel like that kind of leads 00:06:28.380 --> 00:06:33.180 people down the wrong path a lot of times. So, yeah, love it. All right. Well, I think I got the 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:41.160 next one here, Brian. Okay. Cube striker as in Kubernetes. So this is a security tool for anyone 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:48.180 who is running or being a tenant on a Kubernetes cluster. So it's really fast way to audit an 00:06:48.180 --> 00:06:54.340 existing Kubernetes clusters for best practices. And like all beautiful repositories, it has an 00:06:54.340 --> 00:06:57.480 animated gift. So you don't have to read anything. You just watch it for a little like, oh, this is 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:02.540 what it does. That's kind of cool. Maybe I'll use this. Yes. We love those who are listening. 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:07.260 There's an animated GIF on the screen right now. That's right. Absolutely. You should totally see 00:07:07.260 --> 00:07:11.040 it. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Guy, I mean, sometimes we cover, there'll be like UI frameworks, 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:15.100 like, oh, we built this whole UI framework. We do this thing. And there's like no screenshot or no way 00:07:15.100 --> 00:07:19.880 to see what it looks like. Well, if it's about the UI, we should probably see some pictures. So, 00:07:19.880 --> 00:07:24.240 uh, Brian and I are always on a bit of a kick about this. Yeah. Yeah. So it performs a bunch 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:31.440 of in-depth analysis, self-hosted Kubernetes on Amazon EKS, Azure EKS, I suspect pretty much 00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:36.960 you name it the EKS and it'll do it. Let's see if I can find where it talks about the things that it 00:07:36.960 --> 00:07:44.320 does. Yeah. So it scans, your infrastructure. Like I said, it checks for various services and open 00:07:44.320 --> 00:07:50.360 ports, tells you that they should or shouldn't be open. it looks for insecure things or, 00:07:50.660 --> 00:07:54.620 read, right. Or you can even set it up to be read only and it can check, you know, give it like 00:07:54.620 --> 00:08:00.960 lower permissions and it'll still do that. It'll look for misconfigured IAM, settings, identity 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:06.520 from Azure, sorry, AWS, misconfigured containers, pod security policies, network policies, 00:08:06.520 --> 00:08:12.860 and extra privileges, all that kind of stuff. So running containers is pretty easy. Running containers 00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:18.480 in Kubernetes is pretty easy. Running a Kubernetes cluster, not easy. There's a lot going on if you're 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.380 the one running the Kubernetes cluster. And so here's a really nice tool that you just point at 00:08:22.380 --> 00:08:27.060 your cluster and say, how am I doing? Right. Give it a quick check to see if anything's wrong. 00:08:27.060 --> 00:08:33.880 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. You guys, guy, you do anything with Kubernetes or Docker or things like 00:08:33.880 --> 00:08:39.400 that? I do basic developer things that developers tend to do with Docker. I'm, containerization 00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:44.380 isn't necessarily my jam. I mean, you know, I certainly will spin up a Redis instance, for example, 00:08:44.380 --> 00:08:49.320 using Docker or something like that, because that's super convenient, but, beyond using 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:53.280 some basic Docker compose, I don't do much of anything. Yeah. Same, same here. I feel like 00:08:53.280 --> 00:08:57.240 every time I start to work with them, I go, this is really neat, but it feels like I'm just moving 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:02.080 code complexity to DevOps complexity and I'm better at code than I'm at DevOps. So let me not do that. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:06.160 You got to write it down somewhere, right? Yeah. At the end of the day. 00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:11.200 Exactly. Exactly. All right. So, guy, you got this next one here. This is something I'm, 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:17.400 I'm pretty excited about. I'm a big fan of the possibility of WebAssembly. Sounds like you are 00:09:17.400 --> 00:09:21.980 as well. Yeah, I'm an enormous fan of WebAssembly. and I mean, there's a couple of reasons for 00:09:21.980 --> 00:09:26.440 that. Some of it's that it kind of reminds me of the early days, like, like in the eighties, 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:32.140 when I was learning programming, I got into 6502 assembly language. So that low level, 00:09:32.520 --> 00:09:38.360 machine level coding has got a, it's got a, nostalgic joy to it. And so WebAssembly has 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:43.220 drawn me in. if you don't know much about WebAssembly, just to put context around it, 00:09:43.220 --> 00:09:47.020 WebAssembly is byte code for the browser. That's where it started. the idea is, 00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:50.880 is you can take some code, write it in C or rust or some higher level compiled language. 00:09:50.880 --> 00:09:55.680 And then you get a, bunch of byte code, a binary file that can be downloaded and run 00:09:55.680 --> 00:09:58.540 from the browser. So that's WebAssembly in 30 seconds. 00:09:59.180 --> 00:10:03.740 People, you have been done really crazy stuff with things like asm.js, where they're like, 00:10:03.740 --> 00:10:08.640 Oh, let's take some code and send it over to some fancy JavaScript that then we'll compile it in 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:12.420 Java. And there's just all this wild stuff that you can do. And it's really, really impressive. 00:10:12.420 --> 00:10:16.720 But this is like, you know, if you're going to do that, let's make this an actual thing. 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:21.740 That's actually expected to be this runtime, this low level runtime. And yeah, it's cool. 00:10:21.740 --> 00:10:25.900 Well, and it turns out it's actually a lot more performant too. I mean, 00:10:25.900 --> 00:10:30.200 I've seen benchmarks say as much as 20% faster, all the way up to 20 times faster, but regardless, 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:33.320 they always say faster, which is good. 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.820 And smaller probably coming down as binary bits and probably loads faster. It doesn't have to jet it. 00:10:37.820 --> 00:10:38.040 Yeah. 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:38.520 It gets there. 00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:41.960 Well, and it's, it's just another file that could be served from the file server. So, 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.340 or from the web server. So it can be cached and all the other things that you would do with any web 00:10:45.340 --> 00:10:49.380 content. So, lots of advantages and optimizations to be had. 00:10:49.900 --> 00:10:51.600 All right. So what's this thing that you're, you're telling us. 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.120 So, so wasm time, you know, it says, Hey, we built this bike code for the browser. 00:10:56.120 --> 00:11:00.620 wasm time said, you know, what if we put the bike code wherever we want it? 00:11:00.620 --> 00:11:07.060 And instead, so in much the way that node, brought JavaScript to the server side, wasm time, 00:11:07.060 --> 00:11:12.240 wasm time brings a WebAssembly to the server side by adding, IO capabilities. 00:11:12.460 --> 00:11:18.800 And by adding a command line tool that can run it, by adding, run times that you can load up 00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:23.940 in other languages. So, wasm time, it is simplest is, is you've got a WebAssembly module 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:28.400 and you say wasm time space in that module on the command line, and it just runs it and does whatever 00:11:28.400 --> 00:11:28.840 it does. 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.660 Fantastic. And there's different languages supported, right? 00:11:31.660 --> 00:11:36.640 Right. So, and this isn't language support from a, take that language and compile it to web 00:11:36.640 --> 00:11:40.300 assembly. This is take WebAssembly modules and run it in those environments. 00:11:40.540 --> 00:11:45.960 So in rust, python, go.net and in C, although it's not listed here on the screen, there 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:51.660 are run times that you can load up, load a WebAssembly module from whatever, you 00:11:51.660 --> 00:11:56.000 know, read it from the file system, read it out of whatever. Right. and instantiate that 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.880 WebAssembly module and run it. And so, yeah. So if I found like a cool library, it happened 00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:05.720 to be written in rust and it has a WebAssembly version. I could then use that in Python. 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:10.160 Absolutely. I've actually done, 00:12:10.160 --> 00:12:14.700 WebAssembly text format, which is the assembly language to go with WebAssembly. I've used 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:19.240 that to compile simple modules and just like add numbers and stuff like that. And then loaded 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:25.460 that up from Python code. And I actually even run it inside of Redis. but yeah, so now 00:12:25.460 --> 00:12:30.580 all of a sudden it brings that those compiled chunks of code that's that are really just data. 00:12:30.580 --> 00:12:34.660 You can handle them around any way you want and bring them into, all these different 00:12:34.660 --> 00:12:36.120 platforms. That's pretty cool. 00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:40.580 Yeah. This is really neat. Brian, what do you think? just the intermediate 00:12:40.580 --> 00:12:45.820 part to where you can, you can have, a group of people, like even if it's not some 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:50.680 third-party package, it's just within one company that can write in whatever language they want to 00:12:50.680 --> 00:12:55.800 write in and then have an intermediate language that, you can, you can glue it all together 00:12:55.800 --> 00:13:00.820 down the pipeline. I think that just makes people more efficient. I'd like to see that, 00:13:00.820 --> 00:13:03.580 that sort of take off. I think it's a neat, neat place to go. 00:13:03.580 --> 00:13:09.000 Yeah. Guy, could I use this to say if I had like a .NET library, a go library and a rust library, 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.640 and I was writing in Python. Could I bring those all together to interoperate with this thing? 00:13:12.640 --> 00:13:17.700 in theory, I mean, there's a lot of, a lot of work to be involved to do that. 00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:23.100 and there are limitations, out of the box WebAssembly, just like out of the box, JavaScript 00:13:23.100 --> 00:13:29.100 didn't have any kind of IO because you don't need IO in a browser that you have fetch, right? You know, 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:34.520 that's, that's all the IO you get. WebAssembly is the same way, but, web, 00:13:34.520 --> 00:13:39.700 as some time is support supports the WASI standard. all these things start with W. They're actually 00:13:39.700 --> 00:13:46.620 kind of hard to say. and what I see is the WebAssembly systems interface, which gives you a file IO 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:52.460 and, we'll eventually give us network IO right now. It will support reading and writing a sockets, 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:56.440 but it won't support opening a socket, which is tantitizingly frustrating. 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:01.700 That extra ability though, that actually kind of scares me a little bit. And I'm, 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:08.060 I'm concerned about the security part since you're grabbing some binary blob or it's a sem WebAssembly 00:14:08.060 --> 00:14:13.980 blob. It's still not human readable. Right. So how do I know it's not going to be a virus or something 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:19.180 like that? Yeah, that's, that's actually a totally legitimate concern. it's, it's honestly echoes 00:14:19.180 --> 00:14:25.160 the same concerns that we had with a node, JS when it first came out. It's like, cause, cause in the 00:14:25.160 --> 00:14:29.420 browser, it's all nice and neat and sandboxed. Right. and as soon as JavaScript escaped the 00:14:29.420 --> 00:14:33.420 browser and got under your server side, everyone's like, well, but we can pull JavaScript code and call 00:14:33.420 --> 00:14:38.460 you Val on it from anywhere. It's like, well, yeah, you could. and so it's the same, I think we end 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:45.280 up in the same situation where, it's got the same caveats once we go there. you know, I, you know, 00:14:45.280 --> 00:14:52.380 I guess the advice is don't run strange code, right? Yeah. But, these are particularly like 00:14:52.380 --> 00:14:57.740 a JavaScript. You can look at it and say, you know, I see what's going here. And I suppose if it's 00:14:57.740 --> 00:15:01.800 minified, that's not that easy, but, with WebAssembly, it's actually just bytes and it's even 00:15:01.800 --> 00:15:06.220 hard. It's even more opaque. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so much stuff going on in the supply chain 00:15:06.220 --> 00:15:15.280 space now, right? IPI, there was the PHP itself got a backdoor put into it, but luckily never got 00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:20.560 into any of their releases. But yeah, I mean, it's a good concern, Brian, or a valid. Certainly it is. 00:15:20.560 --> 00:15:26.160 It's still cool. Yeah, absolutely. You know what else is cool, Brian? This episode is brought to you 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:30.060 by you and me this time. So all of the cool things we're doing, I want to tell people if they want to 00:15:30.060 --> 00:15:36.200 take some Python courses, they can check out talkpython.fm and just click on courses. And we've got a 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:41.060 and about to release a brand new free course that people will be able to check out as well. 00:15:41.060 --> 00:15:44.460 Probably I'll be able to talk about that next time, but it's on the data science side and that'll be a 00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:49.500 lot of fun. And then, people want to test things. They should probably test it with a pie test so they 00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:54.120 can check out your book as well. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. I can't wait to get the best sponsors. 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:59.980 Thanks. Yeah. And I can't wait to get back to conferences so I can get back to handing out 00:15:59.980 --> 00:16:05.900 stickers and stuff. That was so great. Yeah. I know. Imagine that with other people. So crazy. Yeah. 00:16:06.180 --> 00:16:12.040 I hand them to myself, but you know, I'm a risk of becoming agoraphobic at this point. Yeah. 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:20.220 Yeah. so I wanted to talk about something cool that Anthony shop put together. So, he, he, 00:16:20.220 --> 00:16:27.280 I just saw about this. I think don't you use a dependent bot? I, Oh yeah. I, my, 00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:33.980 my Monday morning means go in and like close 20 PRs and about four of them are conflicting with depend, 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:39.140 a bot where depend a bot was the other PR that also did the PR that I conflict with. So yeah, 00:16:39.140 --> 00:16:43.680 I've got this special relationship, but I'm still very glad to have it there. Cause it's fantastic to 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:47.460 know there's a security problem for this thing. Fix it now. that's really good to know. 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:52.920 Yeah. So, okay. So I probably am a bad one to introduce the depend a bot side. So this is, 00:16:52.920 --> 00:16:58.760 we're actually talking about depend a lot bot, but depend a bot. If people haven't heard it, 00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:04.480 like the 90 times we've talked about it. it, it, it, tell me what it does. It goes out and 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:10.460 checks to, so it looks at, it supports different languages. The Python world. That means, it, 00:17:10.460 --> 00:17:16.880 if it sees a requirements.txt or it sees like a pyproject.toml or whatever, it will look in there 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.180 for pinned versions. If they're not pinned, it will pin it to the current version and then submit that 00:17:21.180 --> 00:17:26.600 change to the requirements.txt as a PR. Yeah. If they are there and it sees there's a new version 00:17:26.600 --> 00:17:31.840 of that library, it will do a PR and in the PR, it'll say things like, here's the change log and 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:36.760 all the commits since the last time you use this library. Here's the release notes around this 00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:42.720 library. Click this button to apply the new, you know, upgrade your pinning. So, you know, 00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:48.240 requests equal, equal something higher than it is currently automatically to your system. So that's 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:55.040 the job of depend a bot. The thing, the complaint is that if I've got a requirements.txt file with 30 00:17:55.040 --> 00:18:02.560 packages in it, I, and 10 of them change, I get 10 PRs instead of one PR with 10 changes. Yeah. 00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:06.680 It's anyway. Yeah. And they conflict with each other cause they're like all like right by each 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:10.380 other. And you like, as you accept them, they start to like get merge requests. You got to 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:15.200 merge conflicts. You got to resolve. And anyway, that's, that's the deal, but that's what it does. 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:24.020 So this depend a lot bot is a bot that looks at all of this and decides, and you create a list to say, 00:18:24.020 --> 00:18:29.660 certain, some of my dependencies can be automatically figured out. and then like, 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:35.880 say talks. So you're not, you're using talks, but you're not really using it. You're using it to test 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:43.260 and stuff. You're not using it for everything. So, like that's an example and the depend a lot bot 00:18:43.260 --> 00:18:50.920 makes sure that the PR request from dependent bot, if it passes the tests, it goes ahead and merges it. 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:56.800 So that's really all it does. And I think that's cool to just, because that's what I would do. If I 00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:01.400 got one of those PR requests, I would make sure it all works fine. And then probably in some of them, 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:05.580 I would probably just push through if I trust the, where it comes from and stuff. So yeah, 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:10.760 exactly. But it's a well-known package. The chances are it's going to be fine, right? Like Bodo from 00:19:10.760 --> 00:19:16.320 AWS, there's fine to take it. Yeah. And especially the tools around your project or, or you're, 00:19:16.320 --> 00:19:20.640 you're only using a little part of something. As long as your test pass, it's probably going to be 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:26.560 fine. Things like updating Django. You may want to have some more manual procedures for that, 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:32.780 but something, something, some minor thing, like I'm only using, you know, a fraction of a package, 00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:38.480 go ahead and update it and see if the test passes. Yeah, exactly. I totally agree. Guy, if one space 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:41.300 has more dependencies than Python, it's gotta be JavaScript. 00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:48.320 Ain't that the truth? yeah. you know, my, my interaction would depend about, the vast 00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:53.400 majority of my repos online are sample codes to go with talks and, and, and videos and that kind of stuff. 00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:57.800 And, I always get depend about notifications for, Hey, this project that you did a year and a 00:19:57.800 --> 00:20:03.380 half ago that you forgot about, that tends to be my interaction with depend about. I can see 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:07.080 how something like this would be very useful. I don't know that, I don't know. It might be something 00:20:07.080 --> 00:20:10.740 I could use to just, I have to think about those old packages anymore. It seems like this could be 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:14.560 really helpful. Yeah. I do like the other guys, the developer's name is Tony baloney. That's a 00:20:14.560 --> 00:20:15.840 fantastic username, by the way. 00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:21.980 Yeah. He's, he's been on the show. He's a great friend of the show. yeah, it's a good, 00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:25.340 I don't, I've, I've never met him. I just think that's really funny. Kudos. 00:20:25.340 --> 00:20:30.300 Yeah. This is really cool. I want to check this. I'm, I've definitely think I'm putting this, 00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:34.440 putting this on. I'll probably do it. Like, for example, things like talks and pie test 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:40.060 and my testing tools and the linters and stuff like that. I definitely want to just update those 00:20:40.060 --> 00:20:46.400 like and try. And if it doesn't, if I'm always going to update those, if there, if there's a new 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:50.260 one in it and everything passes. So yeah. Yeah. Just roll it back. It doesn't work. 00:20:50.260 --> 00:20:54.960 Yeah. And tangentially related Dean out there says he can't seem to be able to pip install dash 00:20:54.960 --> 00:21:00.860 E dot bracket extra, but then he quickly posted his own little fix that, Oh, in a Z shell, 00:21:00.860 --> 00:21:05.440 you got to escape the brackets. Anyone else there's trying to do that. That's, that's great. But yeah, 00:21:05.800 --> 00:21:12.720 well done on this Tony, Anthony, this is really, this could be a dream. If this works the way I 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.620 see it working, I will be so happy. My Mondays won't be like, well, here's the next hour emerging 00:21:17.620 --> 00:21:23.120 PRs and resolving its own self-conflict. So I'm excited. Very cool. All right. Well, 00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:28.260 what is the next one? I want to take us a little bit, like take a step back just a little bit 00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:33.280 from low level tech and talk about the Supreme court of the United States, Brian. 00:21:33.280 --> 00:21:38.460 I want to talk about this too. I also want to take you back to the early two thousands. 00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:43.860 I mean, this is like early days in my programming career, honestly, but here we are with a ruling 00:21:43.860 --> 00:21:49.000 about something that happened in the early two thousands. And what it is, is that way, way back 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:54.860 son created Java, Google, when they created, I actually, whoever created Android, I think before 00:21:54.860 --> 00:21:58.840 Google bought them created Android and said, you know, what would be cool is if we could program 00:21:58.840 --> 00:22:05.620 this with Java and use the API of Java. So the common ways to like write files and open 00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:12.240 sockets, all that kind of stuff, it just may get exactly what the Java runtime libraries do, 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:17.960 but they did not actually take Java. They actually re-implemented it from scratch. So none of the 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:23.560 runtime details had anything to do with Java, but the API, the way you talk to it looked just like 00:22:23.560 --> 00:22:30.440 the Java base class library library. So Oracle buys Java, Oracle thinks that's not super cool. 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:36.680 We want part of that action. Sues Google for copyright infringement by using the Java APIs. 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:42.920 And so then this throws a huge uncertainty into the space of basically all these libraries, 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:47.660 right? What if, what if I want to create a new web framework and the way it works is a little bit 00:22:47.660 --> 00:22:53.180 like Flask, but it turns out that Flask copyrighted, you know, the way it uses decorators, you know, 00:22:53.180 --> 00:22:57.960 app.route or whatever. And then I get sued. That seems, I don't know, that seems weird, right? 00:22:57.960 --> 00:22:58.540 Yeah. 00:22:58.540 --> 00:23:00.940 So does this mean that, yeah, go ahead, guy. 00:23:00.940 --> 00:23:05.820 So does this mean that this ruling mean that you can't copyright an interface in essence? 00:23:05.820 --> 00:23:12.000 Yes. Well, the ruling is interesting because it didn't actually address the copyright ability 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:19.580 of APIs. They said potentially they still could be copyrighted, but the use of the API, as I described 00:23:19.580 --> 00:23:23.860 it in the beginning of like, this is the way you talk to it, not the implementation, but the, 00:23:23.860 --> 00:23:29.760 the way you speak to the thing, they said that that is fair use. So when things are copyrighted, 00:23:29.760 --> 00:23:34.440 you're allowed to speak about them in limited ways. You're not allowed to take a movie and publish it, 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:39.100 republish it, but you're allowed to take a scene of it and analyze it and, and maybe have that 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:41.700 soundtrack, that 30 second soundtrack or something like that. 00:23:41.700 --> 00:23:47.440 Right. So that'd be fair use. And so they said the way in which they're using APIs is like fair use. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:52.400 And they, they talked about the knowledge, having a thing, you might copyright the thing, 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:57.640 but having knowledge, how to operate the thing that you can't copyright. So like knowing how to drive a 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:03.080 car, you can't copyright that. And so having the API without the implementation is kind of like 00:24:03.080 --> 00:24:09.080 the knowledge of how to operate the thing that the API goes to, but the API itself is fair use, 00:24:09.080 --> 00:24:14.280 which is pretty interesting. So I guess just to sort of put the bow on it is the Supreme Court ruled 00:24:14.280 --> 00:24:23.200 that Oracle suit is dismissed. They cannot sue Google. And it stopped actually a huge wave of 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.900 lawsuits that would have followed around all sorts of different things for all different sorts of 00:24:26.900 --> 00:24:28.820 people. So I think I'm happy with this. 00:24:28.820 --> 00:24:33.100 I think I am too, actually. I mean, if I, if I were to sum up everything I just heard, 00:24:33.100 --> 00:24:35.960 what I heard is reverse engineering is fair use. 00:24:35.960 --> 00:24:37.960 Yes. That sounds about right. 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:38.900 So for example, 00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:41.460 the Twitter version of this ruling. 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:42.100 Yeah. 00:24:42.620 --> 00:24:48.300 You know, the example that came to mind for me, and it, this is the thing, like this exact 00:24:48.300 --> 00:24:53.160 example that was the lawsuit, it seems really clear to me that it shouldn't really, I don't think that 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:59.640 should be a thing. But on the other hand, you know, AWS was hosting, like reselling the open source 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:05.060 free version of MongoDB as a service without paying any money to the MongoDB folks who actually 00:25:05.060 --> 00:25:11.480 created and maintained it. They changed their license. And so what AWS did was kept the API for 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:18.480 MongoDB identical, but re-implemented the database server in their own version. I feel like that's a 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.640 real interesting example. That's a little more close to the edge. It's like, well, here's an open source 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:27.580 project that built something neat. Here's somebody who was literally running it and taking profits off 00:25:27.580 --> 00:25:33.360 of it exactly. And then, then they sort of changed it to this mode and it now, now it's okay. And I think 00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:38.300 it probably is okay. Although I feel like Redis could get itself into the same situation, probably, 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:43.300 unless the license already explicitly says that you can't do that. 00:25:43.300 --> 00:25:50.380 The only licenses we have that's specifically explicit that are the ones for the modules, which extend it, 00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:58.460 extend Redis. Redis itself is open source. And so, and Amazon does have an implementation of Redis that they sell. 00:25:58.660 --> 00:26:11.800 Okay. Yeah. Tal out there in the live stream says, you know, another example would be AWS could sue all the other places like Linode and DigitalOcean and stuff that offer S3 compatible storage. 00:26:11.800 --> 00:26:13.020 That's such a good point. 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:18.420 Yeah. Right. Like they, they both, both Linode and DigitalOcean have something that's like, 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:29.280 like S3 and you literally can talk to it with a Bodo 3 API because it, on the surface, it is S3. And so there's another example of something that is spared being destroyed. 00:26:30.020 --> 00:26:31.540 Yeah. In the courts. 00:26:31.540 --> 00:26:37.300 I hope this holds up. I really want APIs to be something that you, you can't copyright. 00:26:37.300 --> 00:26:46.520 I think this is it. I think this is it. I mean, this, it actually Google won and then it was overturned by a higher court and then Google won again. 00:26:46.520 --> 00:26:50.820 Then it was overturned by a higher court and it like literally worked its way all the way to the Supreme court. 00:26:50.820 --> 00:27:00.860 And then this is it. And the Supreme court operates so much on prior, prior rulings and precedent and stuff that it's very unlikely that it could be changed at this point. 00:27:00.860 --> 00:27:11.060 And the entire, the entire like story of Java is just riddled with these gross lawsuits. And it's just, I just have to shake my head about it. 00:27:11.060 --> 00:27:17.980 It really would be nice if it had a nicer history. I think people would be, you know, trashing Java a lot less at this point. 00:27:19.540 --> 00:27:21.900 Yeah. We come up with other reasons. It wouldn't be a problem. 00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:29.300 Ben Thompson from strategy had a really interesting analysis, taking apart what the Supreme court said. 00:27:29.300 --> 00:27:35.220 And one of the things they focused on was the meaning and the essence of copyrights. 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:43.580 Like the reason to have copyrights is so that somebody might invest 10 years in something that could easily be copied, copied, but doesn't yet exist and sort of drive innovation. 00:27:43.580 --> 00:27:51.420 And they talked a lot about the Supreme court talked about, does this application of copyright actually benefit or restrict innovation? 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:55.920 And it was interesting that they were actually thinking in those terms, not just like, well, what is the legal definition of copyright? 00:27:55.920 --> 00:28:00.340 But they're like, this would be very harmful to so many people if it went the other way. 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.160 And so we got to consider that as well. 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:07.380 And, let's see, Dean says, so, Java lost this closed case. 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:09.700 I guess the case is now public static void. 00:28:09.700 --> 00:28:10.840 It's final. 00:28:10.840 --> 00:28:11.380 Yeah. 00:28:12.380 --> 00:28:13.380 Exactly. 00:28:13.380 --> 00:28:16.740 Exactly. 00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:17.320 Cool. 00:28:17.320 --> 00:28:17.520 All right. 00:28:17.520 --> 00:28:19.420 Apparently we have a Supreme court factory. 00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:20.000 So, you know, 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:21.640 yeah, yeah. 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:27.120 We've got an eye Supreme court and the Supreme court factory generates eye Supreme court implementations. 00:28:27.120 --> 00:28:29.020 And we got a Supreme court manager. 00:28:29.020 --> 00:28:29.400 Yeah. 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:30.440 Oh gosh. 00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:31.520 Yeah. 00:28:31.520 --> 00:28:33.280 That's, no, I don't know. 00:28:33.280 --> 00:28:36.180 That's, that's going to be down too far, too far down. 00:28:36.180 --> 00:28:38.020 It's a bridge too far, isn't it? 00:28:38.020 --> 00:28:38.220 Yeah. 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:39.600 It definitely is. 00:28:39.600 --> 00:28:40.180 It definitely is. 00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:40.980 All right. 00:28:41.060 --> 00:28:44.240 guy, you got the last one here and I'm not sure I pulled it up. 00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:46.680 Let me make sure I got it pulled up here. 00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:47.460 Here we go. 00:28:47.460 --> 00:28:48.000 Yeah. 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:54.080 So, you already talked about how you work for Redis and, machine learning is absolutely 00:28:54.080 --> 00:28:55.660 front and center in the Python world. 00:28:55.660 --> 00:28:57.720 And you guys are doing some interesting stuff there. 00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:58.380 You want to tell us about it? 00:28:58.380 --> 00:28:58.940 Yeah. 00:28:58.940 --> 00:29:04.440 So, I sort of mentioned this earlier, but, it's kind of a good segue is Redis 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.100 has modules, which are, you know, things you can use. 00:29:07.100 --> 00:29:08.740 They're like plugins to extend what Redis can do. 00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:10.060 So you can, there's like a module. 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:10.960 It's a graph database. 00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.060 And so now boom, we got new, some new types and some new functionality. 00:29:14.060 --> 00:29:16.940 We can do graph databases or time series or whatever. 00:29:16.940 --> 00:29:22.020 And, one of the modules that, Redis lab, and, and this is part of Redis. 00:29:22.020 --> 00:29:22.480 It's standard. 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.520 Anyone can create a module. 00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:26.160 You know, any, there are lots of open source ones out there. 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.500 Redis labs has a few that we've created. 00:29:28.560 --> 00:29:33.980 One of those is Redis AI and Redis AI turns Redis into a model server. 00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:44.280 So the idea is, is that, I can take the binary output of a model, in there's TensorFlow or whether it's a PyTorch or whether it's an Onyx model. 00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:51.000 And for those who don't know what Onyx is, that's the open neural network exchange, which is a standard Microsoft put together for, models. 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:53.960 so it's sort of like a universal model standard. 00:29:54.120 --> 00:29:59.340 And just like in, in, in, XKCD, it's like, there's too many standards. 00:29:59.340 --> 00:30:00.780 We need a new one to bring these all together. 00:30:00.780 --> 00:30:03.220 Onyx has created yet another standard. 00:30:03.220 --> 00:30:05.140 yeah, exactly. 00:30:05.140 --> 00:30:06.840 This is what always happens. 00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:07.060 Right. 00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:09.680 but Redis supports those three, model types. 00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:15.500 So you can take an Onyx model, for example, and load it into Redis, and then you can use Redis commands to, to execute that model. 00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:18.700 And, so it, it provides a nice little abstraction. 00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:26.340 And the thing that's cool here, I think, is that, normally if you want to bring AI into your application as a developer, you got the data science team. 00:30:26.340 --> 00:30:27.940 They build, they do their thing. 00:30:27.940 --> 00:30:33.820 They build their, models and you get, these binary files out and then you need to bring them into your application some way. 00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:35.260 And there's a few ways to do that, right? 00:30:35.260 --> 00:30:41.760 You can, you can just wrap it up in a, in a, you could containerize it and make a little flask app around it, which is a really common solution. 00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:44.960 there are, other model servers. 00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:47.720 You can just put it right in your application, but then you have to use Python. 00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:50.440 which, is well, not a terrible problem. 00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:51.580 It can sometimes be a problem. 00:30:51.580 --> 00:30:52.020 Yeah. 00:30:52.020 --> 00:30:56.000 If you're not using Python, you might see it as a, like, wait a minute, this is going to be a big change. 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:02.480 And so, the thing that gets me excited about Redis AI, which is kind of not the thing that gets my bosses excited, but it's the thing that gets me excited. 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:08.120 Is that, because we support Onyx, the data science team can build their model and convert it to Onyx. 00:31:08.120 --> 00:31:13.660 And they sort of have a universal standard so they can pick whatever tech stack they want, as long as they can spit out an Onyx model. 00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:18.420 And then Redis, Redis being Redis, it's got a client for every language under the sun. 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:26.060 So if you're, you know, using Haskell, for example, you know, there's a, there's a Redis client for, I don't know that there's a Redis client for Haskell, but I would assume there is. 00:31:26.060 --> 00:31:28.060 It's, it's, it's, it's, odds are there is. 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:39.500 then you can get to that model from whatever language you're at, regardless of what that data science, you know, how amenable to data science tooling that platform is. 00:31:39.500 --> 00:31:42.040 And so it creates a nice architectural layer of abstraction. 00:31:42.040 --> 00:31:44.700 And so that's actually what I think is kind of cool about Redis AI. 00:31:45.300 --> 00:31:53.700 it just provides that, that, that abstraction that makes the developers and the data science folks both not have to, well, speak the same language in a lot of ways. 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:53.840 Yeah. 00:31:53.840 --> 00:31:54.840 That that's really neat. 00:31:54.840 --> 00:31:59.440 And it sounds to me a lot like what ACP APIs did previously. 00:31:59.440 --> 00:31:59.960 Right. 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:09.180 And if you wanted to talk, talk to somebody instead of directly, you know, plugging in that library or exchanging some binary data, you like, all right, everybody's going to just agree on JSON. 00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:10.940 Why didn't they agree on dates? 00:32:10.940 --> 00:32:13.400 But come on, other than that, it's working out just fine. 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:16.860 We're just going to exchange this and, and that'll be the way we can talk to it. 00:32:16.860 --> 00:32:20.700 And nobody worries about what language you're using to consume the API. 00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:21.760 It's like, that's your problem. 00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:23.740 Hopefully your language has a nice way to do that. 00:32:23.740 --> 00:32:24.260 Yeah. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:26.540 It's, it's, it's a similar thing. 00:32:26.540 --> 00:32:31.300 the other thing it does, which I think is kind of interesting is that it introduces a new data type. 00:32:31.300 --> 00:32:34.260 So the models as inputs and outputs take tensors. 00:32:34.260 --> 00:32:37.480 They can put in a couple of tensors as input, your model or one or however many you need. 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:40.100 And then your output would be whatever tensors make sense. 00:32:40.100 --> 00:32:44.140 And, and a tensor is just a, you know, I don't know. 00:32:44.140 --> 00:32:46.940 I think, I think the word tensor is, I'm going to say pretentious. 00:32:46.940 --> 00:32:54.100 I'm probably going to anger a lot of people by saying that, but cause really what a tensor is in practical terms. 00:32:54.120 --> 00:32:56.800 It's just a multi-dimensional array, right? 00:32:56.800 --> 00:32:59.560 You know, you got a tensor that's got a particular shape. 00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:04.180 It's just like, well, this is an array that's 10 by five by three and it's made up of ints. 00:33:04.180 --> 00:33:05.620 And that's all a tensor is. 00:33:06.460 --> 00:33:10.800 And so it sounds all mystical, but it's really just a multi-dimensional array that's being handed in. 00:33:10.800 --> 00:33:18.840 but because tensors tend to be the things that are put into and taken out of machine learning models, Redis AI has a tensor data type. 00:33:18.840 --> 00:33:21.460 And so you could use that capability in Redis as well. 00:33:21.460 --> 00:33:25.340 If you needed to store multi-dimensional arrays in Redis, you've got a type that does that now. 00:33:25.340 --> 00:33:36.840 And so even if you didn't care about the data science, the predictive capabilities, the model hosting, that's the word I'm looking for in Redis AI, you can still use the tensors for various data storage uses. 00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:37.420 Yeah. 00:33:37.420 --> 00:33:37.620 So. 00:33:37.620 --> 00:33:38.040 Yeah. 00:33:38.040 --> 00:33:38.480 Okay. 00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:38.880 Interesting. 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:39.100 Yeah. 00:33:39.100 --> 00:33:40.840 So you kind of hijack the data type as well. 00:33:40.840 --> 00:33:41.360 Yeah. 00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:42.860 So this looks really interesting. 00:33:42.860 --> 00:33:49.680 I think it's, yeah, people should check it out if they're doing machine learning and sharing their models across different technologies or processes. 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:50.380 Yeah. 00:33:50.380 --> 00:33:52.060 I mean, I'm obviously excited about it. 00:33:52.060 --> 00:33:52.940 Yeah. 00:33:52.940 --> 00:33:58.160 So I'm excited because I'm, I use multi-dimensional arrays and now I can call myself a data scientist. 00:33:58.160 --> 00:33:59.240 That's right. 00:33:59.240 --> 00:33:59.960 There you go. 00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:03.280 Awesome. 00:34:03.280 --> 00:34:03.580 All right. 00:34:03.580 --> 00:34:06.620 Quick follow-up before we get to the extras and the joke. 00:34:06.620 --> 00:34:09.120 I'm more, more of a mad data scientist. 00:34:09.120 --> 00:34:09.420 Yeah. 00:34:09.420 --> 00:34:09.660 Yeah. 00:34:09.660 --> 00:34:13.620 Dune Army Captain says, sorry, I'm late. 00:34:13.620 --> 00:34:15.860 It doesn't depend upon optionally auto merge. 00:34:15.860 --> 00:34:16.740 If CI passes. 00:34:16.740 --> 00:34:17.240 Yes. 00:34:17.240 --> 00:34:20.080 But you got to have CI running on that project. 00:34:20.080 --> 00:34:26.060 And so like, if you've got, you have a 30, 40 repositories that have courses. 00:34:26.060 --> 00:34:28.060 I don't set up CI for the course. 00:34:28.060 --> 00:34:30.060 Like what does it even mean to have CI for the courses? 00:34:30.060 --> 00:34:36.300 But I get depend about stuff all the time on that because, you know, it's checking the repository for the requirements file. 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:42.840 So, you know, sometimes you can get it to auto merge, but you know, there's certainly circumstances where it doesn't. 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.460 If it would just put it in one PR, here's the 10 changes. 00:34:45.460 --> 00:34:50.820 Like I put that actually as a issue on the pin to bot itself and people upvoted it. 00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:52.160 Comment it like, yes, this please. 00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:53.960 But apparently not yet. 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:56.760 Anyway, what Anthony's done is pretty excellent. 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.440 Hi, Brian. 00:34:57.560 --> 00:34:58.980 That's it for all of our main items, right? 00:34:58.980 --> 00:34:59.880 Unless I lost track. 00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:00.460 Yeah. 00:35:00.460 --> 00:35:02.520 Got any extras you want to throw out there? 00:35:02.520 --> 00:35:03.540 I don't. 00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:04.820 I've just been working a lot. 00:35:04.820 --> 00:35:05.500 How about you? 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:05.940 I've got extras. 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:06.660 I've got plenty. 00:35:06.660 --> 00:35:15.980 So recently did a cool episode over on Talk Python about diving into the get, the dot get folder and like all the internals of what get does there. 00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:22.680 And what all those pieces mean, if you want to go in there and look and see how basically understand how get itself works and then all the storage stuff, like how they all come together. 00:35:22.680 --> 00:35:27.880 And one of the things that got a nice shout out there is get for windows at get for windows.org. 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.220 There's like a special version to install for get. 00:35:31.220 --> 00:35:36.340 I think this actually might have come from Chris Moffitt even as a sort of follow on conversation or something. 00:35:36.340 --> 00:35:41.260 But wherever it came from, if you're doing windows and you want to install get, this is kind of a cool way to do it as well. 00:35:41.260 --> 00:35:42.620 If you're not doing something like choppy. 00:35:42.620 --> 00:35:45.040 I use it every day and it's get for windows. 00:35:45.040 --> 00:35:46.540 Yeah, it's a requirement. 00:35:46.540 --> 00:35:46.960 Yeah. 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:47.620 Nice. 00:35:47.620 --> 00:35:47.980 Yeah. 00:35:47.980 --> 00:35:48.340 Very cool. 00:35:48.340 --> 00:35:51.520 JupyterLab three is released. 00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:54.620 So this one comes to us from Alan Hanson. 00:35:54.620 --> 00:35:56.120 And thanks for pointing this out. 00:35:56.120 --> 00:36:01.500 It's a little bit, a little bit old, a couple, a couple months, but still very cool that JupyterLab three is out. 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:06.180 You can check it out and see all the new changes that come along, including a debugger. 00:36:06.180 --> 00:36:06.880 A debugger. 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:07.500 How about that? 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:11.220 Table of contents, multiple languages, all sorts of cool stuff. 00:36:11.220 --> 00:36:12.580 So this looks like a major release. 00:36:12.580 --> 00:36:15.860 And if people who love JupyterLab should check it out. 00:36:15.860 --> 00:36:17.480 We'll be too long until it's PyCharm. 00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.760 Yeah, that's right. 00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:20.840 It's not, it's on its way. 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.700 And speaking of PyCharm, I've got some on that. 00:36:23.700 --> 00:36:29.340 Brian skin also did a follow-up to not the previous episode, maybe the one before that, 00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:35.860 where we were talking about like, you know, really it's great that I think this is when we had Sebastian Ramirez on 00:36:35.860 --> 00:36:41.020 and we were talking about Google becoming a visionary sponsor of Python, which is great. 00:36:41.020 --> 00:36:43.520 And it's really cool that a couple of companies have done that. 00:36:43.520 --> 00:36:50.260 But then we also pointed out that, you know, Bank of America has like insane amounts of stuff that they depend upon. 00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:53.140 JP Morgan Chase, their core trading engine. 00:36:53.140 --> 00:37:00.400 Some of it is all by like some of these companies that make huge amounts of money and fundamentally depend upon Python itself. 00:37:01.040 --> 00:37:02.260 I generally don't support Python. 00:37:02.260 --> 00:37:07.780 I mean, I don't know the degree to which those two companies do, but you don't see them like at the top of those sponsorship lists. 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:11.520 And, you know, like Google's was something like $300,000 a year. 00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:14.380 That's the biggest corporate sponsor in the world. 00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:14.920 Right. 00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:15.640 Can we do more? 00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:18.180 So Brian skin said, Hey, I wrote a letter for people. 00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:23.060 And he shared it where it just is mere recipient. 00:37:23.060 --> 00:37:29.140 Given the appreciable business value that we derive from Python and its related scientific tooling over the last few years, 00:37:29.140 --> 00:37:39.840 at no direct cost to the company, would there be room for bracket company to contribute financially to the 501c3 organizations that support these tools? 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:40.660 Here's a list. 00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:41.200 Here's how. 00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:50.680 And basically it wrote like a template letter that you can send to your company decision makers to help encourage them to support Python and other open source projects. 00:37:50.680 --> 00:37:51.780 Yeah, this is great. 00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:53.320 So well done, Brian. 00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:53.920 That was pretty cool. 00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:54.500 All right. 00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:57.780 Django 3.2 long term support releases out. 00:37:57.780 --> 00:38:03.240 So if you're on a slow roll with Django, you're ready to roll on the new version. 00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:10.040 So this is something you can safely adopt for the next three years and stay happy, but on a brand new version of Django. 00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.820 So check that out. 00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:11.580 PyCharm. 00:38:11.580 --> 00:38:12.520 There you go, guy. 00:38:12.520 --> 00:38:13.340 I told you it'd come out. 00:38:13.340 --> 00:38:16.980 PyCharm 2021.1 is out. 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:19.560 And they've got some really cool stuff in here. 00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:23.460 Really neat things, including the Code With Me stuff is now out. 00:38:23.560 --> 00:38:28.880 So Code With Me is I fire up PyCharm or any of the IntelliJ based things. 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.140 And I say, hey, I would like to say program with Brian. 00:38:31.140 --> 00:38:33.320 Brian, can you help me work on the Python Bytes website? 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:34.740 So I could send you a link. 00:38:34.740 --> 00:38:39.740 And then we would both have like Google Docs, but in PyCharm, like where we see each other typing. 00:38:39.740 --> 00:38:41.060 We can follow each other along. 00:38:41.520 --> 00:38:48.120 You can debug the code, but it's running on my machine, for example, even as voice call, video call built into PyCharm alongside that. 00:38:48.120 --> 00:38:48.660 Really? 00:38:48.660 --> 00:38:49.940 It's like a Skype client? 00:38:49.940 --> 00:38:52.100 It actually looks like Skype. 00:38:52.100 --> 00:38:55.820 I couldn't be sure because I haven't tried it yet, but I looked at the UI that you get. 00:38:55.820 --> 00:38:56.900 It's like a little in a panel. 00:38:56.900 --> 00:38:58.120 It looks like an embedded Skype. 00:38:58.120 --> 00:38:59.100 Interesting. 00:38:59.100 --> 00:38:59.760 Yeah. 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:00.180 Yeah. 00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:00.740 All right. 00:39:00.740 --> 00:39:03.180 Well, those are all the extra things for me as well. 00:39:03.180 --> 00:39:13.580 Well, I wanted to bring up, so you reminded me of that, the Google fund thing that when adding, you know, Google give PSF a bunch of money. 00:39:13.580 --> 00:39:17.140 Well, what the PSF is doing with it is they're hiring a developer. 00:39:17.140 --> 00:39:19.000 So I'll drop the link. 00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:23.580 So PSF is hiring a developer in residence to support CPython. 00:39:23.580 --> 00:39:24.660 So this is a good thing. 00:39:24.660 --> 00:39:25.160 Yeah. 00:39:25.160 --> 00:39:25.780 Awesome. 00:39:25.780 --> 00:39:26.400 That's really cool. 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:33.120 Ding Langsam also says PyCon IL is in a month. 00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:33.760 So, yeah. 00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.280 Awesome. 00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:34.980 Check that out. 00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:41.700 And then he also asks about what about the in-browser PyCharm, which we did cover, but that was in some kind of experimental phase. 00:39:41.700 --> 00:39:46.400 I would definitely, if possible, recommend this Code With Me thing over that because then you get the real PyCharm. 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:49.040 It just happens to be like this live exchange. 00:39:49.040 --> 00:39:51.360 Whereas the other one, there's a lot of setup and whatnot. 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:57.520 And it had the, this is a private, not necessarily private, but this isn't a beta, don't depend on it sort of way. 00:39:57.520 --> 00:39:59.920 But this is officially this other thing is released. 00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:03.180 Guy, anything else you want to throw out there for the world, for the listeners while you're here? 00:40:03.180 --> 00:40:05.480 Nothing really comes to mind. 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:07.480 But thanks for having me. 00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.380 I see on our schedule we have a joke coming next. 00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:11.020 Is that true? 00:40:11.020 --> 00:40:12.980 We do have a joke coming next. 00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:14.340 We actually have two, I believe. 00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:16.180 I'm going to fire up mine first. 00:40:16.180 --> 00:40:18.600 I have a joke as well, if you don't mind. 00:40:18.600 --> 00:40:19.760 Don't worry, it's safe. 00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:20.880 That was perfect. 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:21.700 All right. 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:23.700 So, Brian, you're a fan of Vim, right? 00:40:23.700 --> 00:40:24.500 Yes. 00:40:24.500 --> 00:40:25.220 Okay. 00:40:25.220 --> 00:40:34.400 So, Anthony Shaw, same Anthony Shaw as the depend a lot bot we were just talking about, wrote a little one-liner that fits nicely in Twitter. 00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:36.920 Vim, colon, the original escape room. 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:39.520 That's an old joke. 00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:41.520 I love it, though. 00:40:41.520 --> 00:40:42.000 I love it. 00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.200 And, of course, you put it out on April 1st because you've got to do something funny then, right? 00:40:45.200 --> 00:40:45.780 Yeah. 00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:46.860 And how about you? 00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:47.340 You got one here? 00:40:47.340 --> 00:40:48.400 Oh, yeah. 00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:49.140 We just added it. 00:40:49.520 --> 00:40:52.100 So, this is awesome. 00:40:52.100 --> 00:40:55.680 So, the H in software development stands for happiness. 00:40:55.680 --> 00:41:01.380 Nice. 00:41:02.380 --> 00:41:02.760 Yeah. 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:08.680 Dean also just wants to point out that IL is Israel, which I did think that was, but I wasn't 100% sure. 00:41:08.680 --> 00:41:10.900 So, I wasn't sure if that was Israel or Illinois. 00:41:10.900 --> 00:41:12.000 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:12.900 Israel. 00:41:12.900 --> 00:41:13.220 Perfect. 00:41:13.220 --> 00:41:15.960 I would love to go there, but probably not traveling right now. 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:17.720 I will get to go there eventually. 00:41:17.720 --> 00:41:19.740 That's actually where Redis Labs is headquartered. 00:41:19.740 --> 00:41:20.540 Oh, is it? 00:41:20.540 --> 00:41:20.920 Interesting. 00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:25.360 I've had some really great vacations in Tel Aviv hanging on the beach that I can't wait to get back. 00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:25.760 All right. 00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:26.320 God, how about you? 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:28.260 I thought you were excited to go to Illinois. 00:41:28.260 --> 00:41:30.300 Yes. 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:32.260 You know, Chicago would be nice, maybe. 00:41:32.260 --> 00:41:32.980 Yeah. 00:41:32.980 --> 00:41:33.340 Oh, yeah. 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:33.740 Nice place. 00:41:33.740 --> 00:41:35.160 I just can't wait to get to Peoria. 00:41:35.160 --> 00:41:35.860 Yeah. 00:41:35.860 --> 00:41:39.820 Well, I've spent a lot of time in Peoria. 00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:40.220 Yeah. 00:41:40.520 --> 00:41:43.600 But I probably hit my lifetime limit. 00:41:43.600 --> 00:41:44.200 I don't need to go. 00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:45.680 I wouldn't take a vacation there. 00:41:45.680 --> 00:41:48.240 It's a nice place, but I wouldn't go travel to it. 00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:48.640 Yeah, yeah. 00:41:48.640 --> 00:41:53.800 So, my joke is, well, it's for you, for you all. 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:57.340 What would be a pirate's favorite programming language? 00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:59.620 Pirate's favorite programming language? 00:41:59.620 --> 00:42:00.260 See? 00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:01.780 Ah, you ruined it. 00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:06.020 You had to ask me. 00:42:06.020 --> 00:42:06.340 I'm sorry. 00:42:06.340 --> 00:42:10.140 So, the way it's supposed to go is, I say, what would be a pirate's favorite programming 00:42:10.140 --> 00:42:10.500 language? 00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:13.320 And you both, in simultaneous, I go, arrr, right? 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:14.400 Arr. 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:14.680 Right. 00:42:14.680 --> 00:42:15.840 Because, or incident. 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:16.860 Oh, yeah. 00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:21.560 And then the response for me is, you might think it'd be R or maybe, but his first love 00:42:21.560 --> 00:42:22.060 be the C. 00:42:22.060 --> 00:42:23.760 Oh, man. 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:26.660 Oh, and the audience of the chorus is calling out R. 00:42:26.660 --> 00:42:28.680 Should have looked down. 00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:33.620 It works great live, because, you know, you get an audience, they'll shout back the answer. 00:42:33.620 --> 00:42:34.380 Yeah. 00:42:34.660 --> 00:42:39.180 Because they just can't help themselves, and then you surprise them with the twist. 00:42:39.180 --> 00:42:42.660 Well, it was a trick question, because R is not a programming language. 00:42:42.660 --> 00:42:49.380 Well, it's been nice talking with you, Brian. 00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:55.540 I saw one I would want to work in, honestly. 00:42:56.380 --> 00:43:01.740 I mean, I know it's popular, was popular in a data science stack, but it's, I mean, it's 00:43:01.740 --> 00:43:02.820 got one-based arrays. 00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:04.840 I mean, that's right up there with BB6. 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.700 I've never even tried it. 00:43:07.700 --> 00:43:11.560 I just, I haven't made anybody mad today, so I needed to fill my quota. 00:43:11.560 --> 00:43:15.620 It does have, like, web clients and stuff like that, so you can build web servers. 00:43:15.620 --> 00:43:16.660 It's a full-fledged language. 00:43:16.660 --> 00:43:21.020 But I've never done anything more than attend a one-hour talk on the language. 00:43:21.500 --> 00:43:21.680 Yeah. 00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:22.720 Yeah, I haven't either. 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:23.340 All right. 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:26.500 Well, Guy, thanks so much for being here with us. 00:43:26.500 --> 00:43:29.160 And Brian, as always, great to get by them with you. 00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:29.600 Good to talk. 00:43:29.600 --> 00:43:30.680 Yeah, thanks for having me. 00:43:30.680 --> 00:43:31.220 Yep. 00:43:31.220 --> 00:43:31.820 Thanks. 00:43:31.820 --> 00:43:33.040 Thanks everyone for the live stream as well. 00:43:33.040 --> 00:43:33.460 Bye, all.