WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:09.360 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes. This is episode 231, recorded April 28th. Is that right? Yeah. 2021. I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:10.520 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:11.600 I'm Cecil Phillip. 00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:12.340 Yay. 00:00:12.340 --> 00:00:13.580 Hey, welcome Cecil. 00:00:13.580 --> 00:00:21.900 Hey, thanks for having me on. It's always good to come back on this podcast. This, you know, unbiasedly is probably one of my favorite podcasts to listen to, to be honest with you. 00:00:21.900 --> 00:00:23.440 Mine too. Yeah. 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:24.860 Thanks so much. 00:00:25.860 --> 00:00:34.560 We get to learn so much stuff by studying and just getting ready for each week. And it's always fun to just see like the new and exciting. Like developers, we love the shiny new things, right? 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:35.160 Yeah. 00:00:35.160 --> 00:00:43.620 Absolutely. Well, before we jump into the topic, I thought maybe we could let Cecil introduce himself real quick. I know you've been on the show before, but it's been a little while. 00:00:43.620 --> 00:00:49.840 Yeah, it has been a little while since I've been on. But hi, everyone. I'm Cecil Phillip. I'm a cloud advocate at Microsoft. 00:00:50.240 --> 00:01:02.860 And that pretty much just means I spent a lot of time in the community working with, you know, different companies and students and, you know, just really creating content around how, you know, how developers can start using our tools. 00:01:02.860 --> 00:01:10.600 One of the things that I do, Michael's showing you, you know, one of the pages from our Channel 9 video site. I help run the on.net show. 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:17.720 It's not Python, but it is .NET and we do talk about, you know, just a lot of different things in the ecosystem. 00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:19.220 So about- 00:01:19.220 --> 00:01:24.180 You also do Python stuff on some live stream on Twitch and so on, right? Just not on the official .NET channel? 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:33.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we do do, the live streaming stuff happens on Twitch and YouTube. And, you know, you could always go back and check out like the, you know, the recordings of those tools. 00:01:33.220 --> 00:01:43.260 Really quickly, before we jump to Brian's item, I do want to point out on the screen that's top level statements that C# has added, which is like, let's be more like Python. 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:45.240 I just think that's kind of an interesting thing, right? 00:01:45.900 --> 00:01:54.660 I think with the last set of, like in C# 9, a lot of the things that came out of the last language feature set, everyone is just like, this looks a lot like Python. 00:01:54.660 --> 00:01:55.900 This looks a lot like Python. 00:01:55.900 --> 00:02:02.920 Wait till .NET 6 and C# 10 come out, then I'll have to see what you say there. 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:06.660 We're going to use the def keyword and all that. Typing's optional. 00:02:06.660 --> 00:02:07.360 Got it. 00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:09.380 I mean, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens. 00:02:09.380 --> 00:02:13.360 So I might have to check out C# again if it gets close to Python. 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:15.500 I mean, it's not a bad sign to jump in. 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:19.200 Yeah. Yeah. Definitely one of the better languages out there. I certainly think so. 00:02:19.200 --> 00:02:21.180 All right, Brian, take us away. What's your first item here? 00:02:21.180 --> 00:02:23.400 Are you going to tell us or else what? 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.980 Yeah. Or else. 00:02:25.980 --> 00:02:33.720 So I actually was intrigued by this because this is, it's an article called the basic, well, what's the article called? 00:02:33.720 --> 00:02:37.620 For else, a weird but useful feature in Python. 00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:39.960 Plus there's a cute avocado stuffy. 00:02:41.100 --> 00:02:47.540 But there's, I'm not used to using else or break in my Python code. 00:02:47.540 --> 00:02:49.740 I just don't do it that much. 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:52.200 So the, yes, hello birds. 00:02:52.200 --> 00:02:55.880 So the, this is an interesting, 00:02:55.880 --> 00:03:00.800 interesting article about, 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.940 about the else block. 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:07.680 And what it does is if you've got a for loop and you, 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.120 there's no break inside of it, 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:11.660 well, then your else will get hit. 00:03:11.660 --> 00:03:17.240 So the only way to use a else effectively is to maybe have a break so that you, 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.360 at some times don't hit it. 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.100 So it's still a little confusing to me. 00:03:23.100 --> 00:03:25.400 So I was reading more. 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:30.140 The, the article goes on about talking about some examples where you'd want to do it. 00:03:30.340 --> 00:03:34.380 And, and it does explain, it explains it way better than I just did. 00:03:34.380 --> 00:03:36.540 So if you're interested about that, read the article. 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:40.900 But the explanation of why you would use it. 00:03:40.900 --> 00:03:44.380 My favorite is if you were going to iterate to find an item. 00:03:44.380 --> 00:03:51.360 And you would normally maybe use a found flag or something to say that you found it. 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:52.780 You don't need to with this. 00:03:52.780 --> 00:03:55.440 You can, you can, once you find the item, 00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:56.640 you can break. 00:03:57.420 --> 00:04:05.320 And then the, and then you'll hop out and the else block will only get run if you did not find the item. 00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:09.720 So that's really pretty much the use case that I think is neat. 00:04:09.720 --> 00:04:11.620 Yeah, I agree with that one. 00:04:11.620 --> 00:04:14.720 And I love the break out of these loops early, you know, 00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:19.860 because we end up so often with super indented code, right? 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:22.900 It's like, if this is true and if this is true and if this is true, 00:04:22.900 --> 00:04:26.220 and you could put those into a couple of breaks or continues in your loop. 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:28.620 And then, oh boy, it's nice and flat ish. 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:29.300 Yeah. 00:04:29.300 --> 00:04:32.940 The, the other, one of the other use cases he brought up was, 00:04:32.940 --> 00:04:35.480 was using it with an exception. 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:41.300 So if, if you've got an exception, try except block within a for loop. 00:04:41.300 --> 00:04:47.480 And, and you kind of want to know outside whether or not any exceptions were caught. 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.740 You can use the else block to find out if you, if any of the exceptions. 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:52.020 Man, I can't get behind that. 00:04:52.020 --> 00:04:53.420 Like, I know that's the use case. 00:04:53.420 --> 00:04:55.100 Try this else. 00:04:55.620 --> 00:04:56.920 I can't get behind it. 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.900 I, it's just, it's too, it's too weird for me to think about. 00:05:00.900 --> 00:05:05.260 I, I would, I just never use it because it just seems a little unusual. 00:05:05.260 --> 00:05:07.780 And I know I've talked with some folks on the internet. 00:05:07.780 --> 00:05:13.540 They're like, oh, but this is a way to add like a continuation to your try block that you 00:05:13.540 --> 00:05:14.940 won't overcatch errors. 00:05:14.940 --> 00:05:16.280 And I'm, yeah, I don't know. 00:05:16.280 --> 00:05:17.200 I hear you. 00:05:17.200 --> 00:05:21.580 But I, but this, this else one on the loop, I could, I can see this as a, you know, 00:05:21.580 --> 00:05:23.420 not too bad compared to found flag. 00:05:23.420 --> 00:05:28.740 And then what I want to express before we leave this is if you're going to either put 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:33.460 a, I think both break or else, if that's in your code, there should be a comment explaining 00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:37.880 what it does because there's a lot of Python developers that won't know what's going on. 00:05:37.880 --> 00:05:38.260 So. 00:05:38.260 --> 00:05:38.840 Yeah. 00:05:38.840 --> 00:05:39.560 So what do you think? 00:05:39.900 --> 00:05:40.060 Yeah. 00:05:40.060 --> 00:05:45.360 I, I actually really like both of them, like both the four, the four else and the, the 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:51.020 try else only because I think about how much code would I have had to have written otherwise. 00:05:51.020 --> 00:05:52.000 You know what I mean? 00:05:52.000 --> 00:05:52.160 Yeah. 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.180 For me, it just kind of makes those situations a little bit more succinct. 00:05:55.180 --> 00:06:00.260 And I completely understand what you're saying because a part of me also on the other half 00:06:00.260 --> 00:06:03.520 is like, well, I could just put the rest of the code inside the try block. 00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:04.020 Right. 00:06:04.020 --> 00:06:06.800 And then, you know, obviously there's no exception. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:08.100 We'll just keep running on. 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.580 Exactly. 00:06:08.780 --> 00:06:09.220 Yeah. 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:11.800 Like my continuation happens in the same block of code. 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.180 So I completely understand it from that perspective too. 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:15.220 So I don't know. 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:16.760 I guess I'm kind of 50, 50 on it. 00:06:16.760 --> 00:06:17.820 I kind of like it. 00:06:17.820 --> 00:06:20.500 I kind of, I'm like, well, we could do it another way. 00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:21.320 So I don't know. 00:06:21.320 --> 00:06:21.840 Yeah. 00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:24.020 And just jumping back a tiny bit. 00:06:24.020 --> 00:06:24.520 That's all. 00:06:24.520 --> 00:06:27.300 Dean has a bit of foreshadowing for you in the live stream. 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:31.060 John posted in 2022, looking for Pi Sharp developers with 10 years of experience. 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.980 Wow. 00:06:32.980 --> 00:06:38.040 And Rob is out there giving a shout out to Brian's birds. 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:41.040 I don't know how accurate that emoji is, but it looks pretty legit. 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:42.040 That's pretty good. 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:42.340 Yeah. 00:06:42.340 --> 00:06:43.500 We got, I got three here. 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:45.380 Nice. 00:06:45.380 --> 00:06:45.700 All right. 00:06:45.700 --> 00:06:47.020 I think I got the next one, right? 00:06:47.020 --> 00:06:48.860 So let's talk. 00:06:48.860 --> 00:06:49.740 You were done with this one, right? 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:50.620 And I didn't steal it from you. 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:51.440 Yeah. 00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:53.720 And I'm going to, I'm going to step out and cover the birds. 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:54.220 So. 00:06:54.220 --> 00:06:54.600 Okay. 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.520 Well, I'll tell you about the ORM while we're doing that. 00:06:57.520 --> 00:07:03.400 So probably the two most popular ORMs we have out there are Django ORM. 00:07:03.400 --> 00:07:08.060 And if you're, which really only makes sense if you're actually doing Django or SQLAlchemy. 00:07:08.280 --> 00:07:12.200 And those are both really interesting, but I want to give a shout out to Tortoise ORM. 00:07:12.200 --> 00:07:14.780 I think these names are always interesting. 00:07:14.780 --> 00:07:15.900 Like naming things is hard. 00:07:15.900 --> 00:07:20.920 I always think of databases and database libraries to be awesome if they're fast. 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:21.480 Yeah. 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:23.100 The less awesome if they're slow. 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:25.320 But Tortoise doesn't scream speedy. 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:34.360 But I think you should think of it more in the speedy side because it's primarily an asyncio object relational mapper inspired by Django. 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:40.240 So if you were like, I love what Django does, but what I really want is an async version of that. 00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:42.180 Tortoise ORM is a really good example. 00:07:42.180 --> 00:07:48.740 And, you know, it uses the active record design pattern instead of unit of work, which SQLAlchemy uses. 00:07:48.740 --> 00:07:49.840 So it's pretty neat. 00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:51.260 They have a bunch of performance stuff. 00:07:51.260 --> 00:08:00.280 And I really like that they show performance against many different ORMs, not just Django and SQLAlchemy, but other ones like Pony and Kiwi and a lot of different use cases. 00:08:00.280 --> 00:08:00.900 You can get a sense. 00:08:00.900 --> 00:08:01.820 Like it's pretty fast. 00:08:01.820 --> 00:08:03.960 It's not raging fast, but it's async. 00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:07.060 So that's a really, really good option there. 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:09.060 Super simple to use. 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:14.000 When you install it, you typically need to install the underlying database driver that it's going to use. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.900 So if you're going to use it with Postgres, you install asyncpg. 00:08:17.900 --> 00:08:22.720 If you're going to use it with MySQL, you install AIO, MySQL, and so on along with it. 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:24.800 But if you look at the code, it's super simple. 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:34.820 And if you're familiar with Django, you go and create the fields as members of a class equal to some descriptor like fields.intfield or field.textfield. 00:08:34.820 --> 00:08:38.560 Set them have indexes and so on. 00:08:38.560 --> 00:08:41.980 What's really nice is there's like really good modeling of relationships. 00:08:41.980 --> 00:08:49.060 So there's like fields.foreignkeyfield, fields.mini2misfield, and it talks about the relations and so on. 00:08:49.060 --> 00:08:51.240 So yeah, this is a really nice RM. 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.940 If you're looking for something async that is like Django, give this a shot. 00:08:54.940 --> 00:08:55.940 It's pretty popular. 00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:57.440 It has almost 2,000 GitHub stars. 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.360 It was updated two days ago. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:01.960 So yeah, it seems like a nice, happy project. 00:09:02.420 --> 00:09:03.140 This looks pretty cool. 00:09:03.140 --> 00:09:12.040 When you were showing that installation section just now, so you still have to install like the async versions of, I guess, that particular database's driver. 00:09:12.040 --> 00:09:15.820 So async MySQL, async Postgres, and things of that nature. 00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:20.880 So I'm guessing what this adds, kind of like what you said, is that active record programming model. 00:09:20.880 --> 00:09:23.900 So if you want to write your code in that style, you know what I mean? 00:09:23.900 --> 00:09:31.200 I can write it and then now I could just switch, swap out the database driver and I could point to a different database implementation if I wanted to. 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:31.980 Yeah, exactly. 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:33.600 I think it does two things. 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.940 One is there's always like database dialects, like how do you express parameters? 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:40.760 Question mark or at parameter name or whatever, right? 00:09:40.760 --> 00:09:41.820 I think it handles that. 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:46.560 And then a lot of those drivers, they're async, but they only work in raw SQL. 00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:49.780 So select star from such and such and so on. 00:09:49.780 --> 00:09:52.800 And so this just gives you the ORM wrapper on top of it. 00:09:52.800 --> 00:09:59.740 But I think it does this dependency thing because otherwise it would have to install like every driver it supports. 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:00.420 Sure. 00:10:00.420 --> 00:10:02.000 And, you know, that would be a hassle, right? 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:03.020 Because you only want one. 00:10:03.020 --> 00:10:04.180 Yeah, that would be a little messy. 00:10:04.180 --> 00:10:04.880 Yeah. 00:10:04.880 --> 00:10:06.060 Why does it take so long to install? 00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:08.320 Well, it's installing every database driver it can think of. 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:09.420 No, this is pretty cool. 00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:09.800 I like it. 00:10:09.800 --> 00:10:10.420 Brian, what do you think? 00:10:10.420 --> 00:10:12.760 Actually, I think it's pretty great. 00:10:12.760 --> 00:10:17.520 And I was actually starting to look at an ORM for a new project. 00:10:17.520 --> 00:10:18.820 So I might check this out. 00:10:18.820 --> 00:10:20.200 Yeah, I like it pretty well. 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.380 It's got some really simple ways to program it. 00:10:22.740 --> 00:10:27.200 You can create one of these objects and then you just await tournament.save. 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:32.620 If it's a tournament in this case, or it has like a factory sort of create method for queries. 00:10:32.620 --> 00:10:37.880 You go do some kind of query, then just await a class.filter type of thing. 00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:39.020 And it even does like the join. 00:10:39.020 --> 00:10:41.740 So you don't end up with the N plus one performance problems. 00:10:41.740 --> 00:10:46.680 One thing I guess I would throw out there is it seems to me like this is 100% async. 00:10:46.860 --> 00:10:51.020 So if you're going to use it, you have to create an event loop and just run it in there. 00:10:51.020 --> 00:10:55.020 And if your app is not very asyncy, then it might be kind of a hassle to use. 00:10:55.020 --> 00:10:56.180 I'm not totally sure about that. 00:10:56.180 --> 00:11:04.060 It used to be that there were these wrappers you could get that would take non-async libraries and database libraries and stuff and make them async by putting them on threads. 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:09.200 I can see a world where we get back to wrappers that make them sync so they're easier to use if you don't want to do async. 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:09.740 Yeah. 00:11:09.740 --> 00:11:17.680 I know one of the things for me that's always been a little challenging is when you have like these async database things, like how do I test them? 00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:18.440 You know what I mean? 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:27.040 I always find like testing, at least when it comes to unit testing, testing asyncio things is relatively non-trivial. 00:11:27.040 --> 00:11:27.900 You know what I mean? 00:11:27.900 --> 00:11:28.100 Yeah. 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:35.020 Like I have a thing that uses motor, like so the MongoDB async library, and I'm using it in FastAPI. 00:11:35.020 --> 00:11:37.540 And, you know, FastAPI does this injection thing. 00:11:37.540 --> 00:11:38.540 I'm like, oh, great. 00:11:38.540 --> 00:11:42.220 My code is clean because I'm, you know, I'm separating concerns and I'm doing all this thing. 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:44.720 Man, like how do I test this thing? 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:45.840 Like how do I... 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.440 Brian, do you got any advice on testing async things? 00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:54.660 Well, I don't right now, but I think that'd be a great topic to explore and try to get some people on the podcast. 00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:55.440 Yeah. 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:56.340 Yeah, I agree. 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:57.360 Yeah, that'd be great. 00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:59.800 If you ever write like part two of your book, I'd love to see it. 00:11:59.800 --> 00:12:05.020 Well, there's a second edition coming out, but it doesn't include async. 00:12:05.020 --> 00:12:07.240 It hasn't published yet, has it? 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:08.580 There's still time for another chapter. 00:12:08.580 --> 00:12:09.620 There you go. 00:12:09.620 --> 00:12:10.520 There you go. 00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:18.420 Jumping back, I did see that Brett Cannon had an interesting... 00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:20.840 comment about the else clause. 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.060 One of the benefits is that... 00:12:23.060 --> 00:12:23.320 Hey, Brett. 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.500 Makes you look like a Python expert in code reviews when you suggest people use it. 00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:28.360 So... 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.180 I think that's funny. 00:12:31.180 --> 00:12:32.520 Yeah, that is funny. 00:12:32.520 --> 00:12:35.040 Yeah, a lot of thoughts here on the else clause. 00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:36.380 I do think it's one of these things. 00:12:36.380 --> 00:12:37.240 It's a little unusual. 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.380 Like a lot of languages have like, oh, we all have the while loop. 00:12:40.380 --> 00:12:41.300 We all have the for loop. 00:12:41.300 --> 00:12:42.140 We all have the statements. 00:12:42.140 --> 00:12:43.040 They all look like this. 00:12:43.040 --> 00:12:44.740 And this is kind of a little bit different. 00:12:44.900 --> 00:12:45.820 So it's kind of interesting. 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:46.480 All right. 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:46.960 Cool. 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.080 Cecil, you're up next, right? 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:49.060 Yeah, I am. 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:54.420 So I ran into this post about faster Python with Go shared objects, which I thought was 00:12:54.420 --> 00:12:56.000 a really interesting read. 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:00.900 Mainly for me, I'm really into like language interrupt, right? 00:13:00.900 --> 00:13:02.780 Like the fast part is cool and I get it. 00:13:02.780 --> 00:13:05.500 Like fast is always a relative thing that we could consider. 00:13:05.500 --> 00:13:07.460 What do we really consider to be fast or not? 00:13:07.640 --> 00:13:11.160 But, you know, it's always interesting for me to see how we can take one language and 00:13:11.160 --> 00:13:12.860 another and kind of plug them together. 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:13.580 You know what I mean? 00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:18.400 Because I'm a big believer in let's, you know, let the thing do what it's best at. 00:13:18.400 --> 00:13:19.180 You know what I mean? 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:22.360 Like, so for instance, Python is really good at doing certain things. 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:23.340 Let Python do that. 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.000 Or Go is really good at doing certain things. 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:26.060 Let Go do that. 00:13:26.060 --> 00:13:28.180 But now how do we plug these worlds together? 00:13:28.640 --> 00:13:33.220 And so this article kind of goes through talking about how, you know, within Go, you can create 00:13:33.220 --> 00:13:35.520 these things called shared libraries. 00:13:35.520 --> 00:13:40.540 And I believe what it does is that it outputs a .so file or a .dl file. 00:13:40.540 --> 00:13:41.120 Yeah. 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.280 And then based on that in Python, you could use something like ctypes or this article actually 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:48.780 even references something called cffi. 00:13:48.780 --> 00:13:50.320 I've never heard about cffi. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:52.180 I don't know if y'all have spoken about it before. 00:13:52.180 --> 00:13:56.240 Yeah, it's a more modern interop layer between c libraries. 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.920 Yeah, I think they mentioned it as well. 00:13:58.300 --> 00:13:59.080 Yeah, yeah, right there. 00:13:59.080 --> 00:13:59.940 Yeah. 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:04.080 So it mentions using things like cffi, for instance, to be able to load some of these 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.720 files and do interop, which I think is actually pretty cool. 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:11.400 You know, it does also talk about some of the pros and cons, which I think are very important 00:14:11.400 --> 00:14:11.920 to discuss. 00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:16.600 So for instance, this says, well, it's really good if you're just passing around like primitive 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:17.040 types. 00:14:17.040 --> 00:14:21.140 But now when you want to pass around like more complex types, like, you know, dictionaries 00:14:21.140 --> 00:14:25.160 and classes and things of that nature, then it becomes a little bit more tricky to do. 00:14:25.160 --> 00:14:28.280 But, you know, again, just in terms of, hey, I have this thing. 00:14:28.280 --> 00:14:33.360 I want to pass on to go to maybe, I don't know, maybe go runs it in the background or, 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:38.820 you know, runs this microservice thing that, you know, does Docker and Kubernetes or whatever 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:39.420 the case is. 00:14:39.420 --> 00:14:43.660 You know, we could leverage both ecosystems to, again, have them do what they're good at 00:14:43.660 --> 00:14:46.700 and kind of like just plug them together, which I think is a pretty cool read. 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:50.000 I'd love to hear what folks think about it after they read through it. 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.720 Yeah, I think it looks really interesting. 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:56.780 You know, one of the powers of Python is this interoperability, mostly around C, but also 00:14:56.780 --> 00:14:59.780 other things like weird things like Fortran and so on, right? 00:14:59.780 --> 00:15:05.000 Like people say, oh, well, doing math with Python is super slow relative to C++ or whatever. 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.780 And yet data science is so popular where it's almost all math, right? 00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:11.280 How do you square these two things? 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:12.240 Like, how do you make them work? 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:17.660 And it's because a lot of that gets pushed down into some more native layer, like a C layer. 00:15:17.660 --> 00:15:20.080 You just hand off the data and then zip it. 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.240 The real work happens there. 00:15:21.260 --> 00:15:25.060 And this seems like another really cool way to do that, right? 00:15:25.060 --> 00:15:30.660 Something that works really well in Go, write a package, wrap up the Go bits, put them in a wheel, 00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:33.080 hip install them, and people don't have to know. 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:36.380 It's also not just what the language can do best. 00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:37.980 It's what the developers can do best. 00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:42.840 And if you've got somebody that's really good at Go working on part of the problem, 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.220 being able to connect them together is a good idea. 00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:53.940 I think that we're far away from the time where people just had one language that they knew anyway. 00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:57.080 And I don't know if we ever were there. 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:03.240 But definitely, you know, early in my career, there were some C and C++ developers that that's all they knew. 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.560 A little shell scripting. 00:16:05.560 --> 00:16:07.880 But I don't find that anymore. 00:16:07.880 --> 00:16:10.880 And I think most Python developers know some other language as well. 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:12.400 Yeah, like CSS. 00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:13.880 They typically program in CSS. 00:16:13.880 --> 00:16:15.000 That's just the bad. 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.200 That's what the bad surveys ask. 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:17.160 No, but you're right. 00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:20.540 And it's also not just about knowing the language. 00:16:20.540 --> 00:16:24.500 It's about, well, we spent two years building this other library and it works. 00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:26.240 Can we just use that over here? 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.660 Like this interop for just reuse is really powerful as well. 00:16:29.660 --> 00:16:30.500 Yeah, definitely. 00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:31.260 Yeah. 00:16:31.260 --> 00:16:35.320 I always found when I was growing up, you know, when I went through college, you know, 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:41.060 my professors always told me any good programming, good programmer knows like three or four different languages. 00:16:41.060 --> 00:16:43.200 Like that's, you know, what they kept drilling into us. 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:48.560 And it's funny, we always talked about learning different languages, but we never ever spoke about putting them together. 00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:49.420 You know what I mean? 00:16:49.420 --> 00:16:51.020 And kind of like what you were saying, right? 00:16:51.020 --> 00:16:52.540 I feel like that's kind of where we are. 00:16:52.540 --> 00:16:54.860 Like no one knows one language. 00:16:54.860 --> 00:17:00.160 You know, like no one that works in a company in a really productive ecosystem does one thing. 00:17:00.220 --> 00:17:06.980 You probably know some JavaScript and some Python and some, you know, Go and Rust and SQL and like there's stuff in there. 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:12.000 But how do we put that stuff together in a very clean and like maintainable way? 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:12.540 Yeah. 00:17:12.540 --> 00:17:19.420 Another thing, you know, thinking back to the times when we were all in college, so much of what we did was like really low level. 00:17:19.420 --> 00:17:21.980 Like, oh, I need to, you know, load this file. 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:25.460 So I got to write the binary bits to parse this file, right? 00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:27.680 It was like super low level and it took a long time. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.440 And these days it's more about Lego blocks. 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.960 Get this thing, that thing, click them together and make that piece go over there, right? 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.420 And this whole interop for that is also, you know, makes sense in that world. 00:17:36.800 --> 00:17:36.920 Yeah. 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:44.260 Well, we have some, you have some cool, I want to plug your stuff. 00:17:44.260 --> 00:17:45.320 So we don't have a sponsor. 00:17:45.320 --> 00:17:47.080 So we'll plug your training. 00:17:47.080 --> 00:17:47.300 Yeah. 00:17:47.300 --> 00:17:47.420 So, yeah. 00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:48.340 Thanks, man. 00:17:48.340 --> 00:17:49.160 I appreciate it. 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:49.280 Yeah. 00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:52.140 Well, you, let me, I'll be specific about something. 00:17:52.140 --> 00:18:00.020 Something that I think if you dug through the course catalog, there's a little coming soon graphic, but people probably don't know is we're about to release a course on Dask. 00:18:00.020 --> 00:18:03.460 So Dask is a way to do like pandas type stuff. 00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:16.260 But if it needs to load 10 terabytes of data and that won't fit even on your hard drive, or you want to run it across, you know, 16 cores on your machine across 10 machines, you just write pandas code, but you point it somewhere else. 00:18:16.260 --> 00:18:19.340 And it just parallelizes that beautifully with this cool little dashboard. 00:18:19.340 --> 00:18:23.720 So anyway, there's a free course coming on Dask that people will be able to take really, really soon. 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:24.420 That'll be fun. 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:25.320 No, it's good. 00:18:25.320 --> 00:18:27.140 I think everybody should check out your course catalog. 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:33.460 And one of the best things that happened to the Python community was when you quit your full time job and started working on this full time. 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:34.600 Thanks. 00:18:34.600 --> 00:18:36.740 A short four or five years ago. 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:40.660 I would definitely concur with that. 00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:46.320 I'm curious about Dask too, because I remember you all speaking about it in a previous podcast. 00:18:47.080 --> 00:18:50.240 And I always wondered, oh, wow, is this only for pandas? 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.760 Or can I use Dask to just run remote Python anywhere I wanted to? 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:59.000 I think you can actually, I do think you can make it run remote Python. 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:04.540 The simple use case is sort of import something different that looks like pandas and use it, you know? 00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:09.900 But I think there's a way, there's like a lower level set of libraries that do that orchestration. 00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:11.140 You probably could use it. 00:19:11.140 --> 00:19:12.820 I'm trying to remember and make sure that that's the right one. 00:19:12.860 --> 00:19:16.520 I think that's what Matthew Rockland pointed out when we were talking about it. 00:19:16.520 --> 00:19:17.460 So, yeah, quite cool. 00:19:17.460 --> 00:19:22.560 Yeah, because that would make, for me, makes Python really interesting from a distributed systems perspective. 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:23.060 Yeah. 00:19:23.060 --> 00:19:29.360 Again, we think about like containers and multiple VMs and even just talking across boundaries of networks, right? 00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:30.080 Yeah. 00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:33.580 Yeah, and just being able to import my library and run it. 00:19:33.580 --> 00:19:34.320 You know what I mean? 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:35.260 Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:35.260 --> 00:19:36.080 Super cool. 00:19:36.080 --> 00:19:37.220 All right, Brian, you got the next one? 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:37.900 Yeah. 00:19:37.900 --> 00:19:45.800 So, speaking of learning to code, you know, as you go on with your learning to code, there's tutorials and stuff. 00:19:45.800 --> 00:19:51.520 But then you want to get into really finding out how things, people are really solving problems all over the place. 00:19:51.520 --> 00:19:57.900 And a great discussion around that is to, and good recommendations, is to just go read some code. 00:19:57.900 --> 00:19:59.040 You need to read a lot of code. 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:01.620 And there's problems with that, though. 00:20:01.620 --> 00:20:04.820 And so, this is an interesting article I'm going to link to. 00:20:04.820 --> 00:20:11.600 Learning to read code, Python Standard Library Design Decisions Explained for Advanced Beginners. 00:20:11.600 --> 00:20:13.360 That's an interesting term, advanced beginners. 00:20:13.360 --> 00:20:17.520 But, so, there's an interesting discussion around this. 00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:18.940 So, the standard library is there. 00:20:18.940 --> 00:20:20.600 So, that's a great thing to go look at. 00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:21.320 It's available. 00:20:21.320 --> 00:20:25.540 And all of it's there, so you can read all of it. 00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:30.200 But there's some interesting caveats and some in both good and bad. 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:31.720 So, there's pros and cons. 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.840 One of the pros is all the peps are around. 00:20:33.840 --> 00:20:38.380 So, you can read the design decisions of why things are the way they are. 00:20:38.380 --> 00:20:41.760 And some of the history and what problem they're trying to solve. 00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:48.620 That's actually an incredible benefit because I don't even get that with, like, internal code often with a company. 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:52.900 It's often just the code that was left to me that I have to maintain. 00:20:52.900 --> 00:20:54.520 So, this is kind of neat. 00:20:54.520 --> 00:20:57.880 And usually, it was done just enough to work and then we're done with it. 00:20:57.880 --> 00:20:59.360 Yeah. 00:20:59.360 --> 00:21:03.560 So, and Python gets to improve on itself, which is nice. 00:21:03.560 --> 00:21:08.900 The downside is there's a lot of it and a lot of it's really old. 00:21:08.900 --> 00:21:11.280 So, there's some code in there from 10 to 20 years ago. 00:21:11.800 --> 00:21:16.260 And there's what's Pythonic now might not have been Pythonic then. 00:21:16.260 --> 00:21:18.660 So, maybe not best practices. 00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:22.380 I don't know this firsthand, but this is a comment from the article. 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:23.820 So, I think that's fair. 00:21:23.820 --> 00:21:26.940 And also, you don't really want to learn. 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:35.040 This isn't necessarily from the Python Center Library, but just picking something that you use on GitHub. 00:21:35.560 --> 00:21:37.320 It could be incredibly useful. 00:21:37.320 --> 00:21:39.320 That doesn't mean that it's coded well, though. 00:21:39.320 --> 00:21:41.080 So, it might not be a good example for coding. 00:21:41.080 --> 00:21:50.400 So, the author has three or four different standard libraries that it recommends, which is pretty interesting. 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.440 The statistics module. 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:57.580 It says the code is simple and it's fairly well documented. 00:21:57.580 --> 00:21:58.780 And the PEP describes... 00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:01.340 I think it's also pretty new, which is kind of a... 00:22:01.340 --> 00:22:01.700 Oh, really? 00:22:01.700 --> 00:22:02.060 Good. 00:22:02.060 --> 00:22:04.020 I'm not sure when the statistics... 00:22:04.020 --> 00:22:04.640 But it was added. 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.000 It didn't come originally. 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:07.260 It's been added after a while. 00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:12.380 But there's other things around that people use statistics for statistics. 00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:21.740 So, the PEP apparently talks about design decisions about not trying to reimplement NumPy or something like that within the standard library. 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:23.680 But just have basic statistics. 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.000 3.4, by the way, is when statistics showed up. 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:27.620 Oh, yeah. 00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:29.400 So, it's not that old, right? 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:29.760 Yeah. 00:22:29.760 --> 00:22:33.140 And actually, the next two are fairly recent as well. 00:22:33.140 --> 00:22:38.240 Pathlib is recommended because it's extremely well documented. 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.020 And it's... 00:22:40.020 --> 00:22:41.360 Oh, no. 00:22:41.360 --> 00:22:44.100 And object-oriented, good object-oriented example. 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:48.420 There's not a lot of object-oriented examples out there in Python because a lot of people don't use it. 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:49.480 So, it's good. 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:53.480 Also, a nice comparative study because we already had OSPath. 00:22:53.560 --> 00:22:58.240 So, you can look at how OSPath solved it versus Pathlib solving the same problem. 00:22:58.240 --> 00:22:58.960 That's kind of neat. 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:06.040 Data classes is apparently very well documented. 00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:10.780 And I'm not sure what else I was going to say because I wrote down, it's a good example of data classes. 00:23:10.780 --> 00:23:12.160 That doesn't make sense. 00:23:12.540 --> 00:23:16.880 It may be the very best example of data classes implementation. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.820 Yeah. 00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:18.280 Or the only. 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:26.580 And then Graphlib, which says it's a bonus, but it's interesting because it does one thing. 00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:33.100 It's an implementation of a topological sort algorithm, which I'm not exactly 100% sure what that is. 00:23:33.100 --> 00:23:34.800 But it's a narrow problem. 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:42.740 And there's no PEP, but apparently there's an issue that the article links to with a long thread discretion. 00:23:42.740 --> 00:23:47.600 And the interesting thing about this isn't the discussion about how it should be implemented. 00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:51.100 It's the discussion of what the API should look like. 00:23:51.100 --> 00:23:55.000 So, how it should be used from a user perspective. 00:23:55.220 --> 00:24:00.300 And that actually seems fascinating to me because I think we need to talk about that more of people. 00:24:00.300 --> 00:24:09.960 How designing APIs and coming to terms with that is almost more important than what the code looks like. 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.320 Because you have to live with the API. 00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:14.440 You can change the code later if you need to. 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:15.360 Yeah. 00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:17.460 That's a good point because you can refactor internally. 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:19.620 But yeah, the API you're stuck with. 00:24:19.620 --> 00:24:23.280 Unless you're like one of the packages I use for security on the website today. 00:24:23.280 --> 00:24:27.940 That just completely changed a bunch of the module names and submodules and moved classes around. 00:24:27.940 --> 00:24:33.800 And then my website in dev, not in production, wouldn't start after I updated it. 00:24:33.800 --> 00:24:35.460 I'm like, well, I don't understand. 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:38.300 Shouldn't there be at least a deprecation warning for a little bit or something? 00:24:38.300 --> 00:24:38.820 Nope. 00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:39.660 Oh, well. 00:24:39.660 --> 00:24:43.600 One of the things I really like about articles like this. 00:24:43.600 --> 00:24:44.440 Oh, I'm sorry. 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:45.280 Yeah, I was going to say. 00:24:45.280 --> 00:24:51.060 One of the things I really like about articles like this is, you know, we often talk about like the beginner path. 00:24:51.060 --> 00:24:52.840 Like how do I get started with a thing? 00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:59.180 But after we've, you know, you know, brought all these beginners together, like how do I take you from beginner plus plus? 00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:00.860 Like what is like the next step look like? 00:25:00.860 --> 00:25:05.160 And, you know, you always hear folks talk about just you got to read code, right? 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:13.100 Like go to GitHub and click browse and kind of just dig around projects that you're interested in and things you want to learn about and kind of just try and understand how it works. 00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.300 Right. 00:25:13.300 --> 00:25:21.100 Like if you want to understand how Flask works, if you want to see how folks use different things and FastAPI or Django or even Tortoise that Michael was showing a little while ago. 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.020 I mean, just it's open source, right? 00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:24.420 And that's the beauty about it. 00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:24.740 Yeah. 00:25:24.740 --> 00:25:29.400 You just go on GitHub and just read the code and then, you know, change it, right? 00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:32.720 Change it on your machine and see what it does and see, does it get faster? 00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.480 Is it slower? 00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:35.440 Is it more or less readable? 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.340 You know, do you understand it a little better? 00:25:37.340 --> 00:25:38.720 Did the test make sense? 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.640 Brian could tell you about like writing good tests for different packages and stuff. 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.160 But I think we need to do more of this. 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:52.760 Like, and we as like an industry, because I feel like we're like a drowning in how to get started content now on this level. 00:25:52.760 --> 00:25:53.580 You know what I mean? 00:25:53.580 --> 00:26:02.700 Let's go like one step above that now and start to talk about like what is the step two, three, four look like, you know, between junior and senior. 00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:04.320 Yeah, there's definitely that cliff. 00:26:04.320 --> 00:26:06.940 Brian, you got a learning curve here to back this up? 00:26:06.940 --> 00:26:07.540 Yeah. 00:26:07.540 --> 00:26:09.940 No, I just saw this interesting graphic. 00:26:09.940 --> 00:26:10.700 I think you muted, Brian. 00:26:10.700 --> 00:26:12.100 Oh, yeah. 00:26:12.100 --> 00:26:18.140 I saw this interesting graphic and I kind of related to it really well in production. 00:26:18.140 --> 00:26:22.260 I'm not sure about the early parts of the learning curve. 00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:31.300 But the end part is welcome to production programming where there's strange mission critical code left behind by the last developer. 00:26:32.600 --> 00:26:36.720 And I mean, actually, this is, you know, funny, but also it's true. 00:26:37.360 --> 00:26:44.020 In, you know, production code in a company, you often have to support code that you don't know what the decisions are. 00:26:44.020 --> 00:26:44.640 You don't. 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.400 It's just it's working, but you're not sure why it's working. 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.180 And yeah, there's some strange stuff. 00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:50.680 Yeah. 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:53.820 It can definitely get weird in that stage. 00:26:53.820 --> 00:27:00.860 But Cecil, I agree that going from like, oh, I learned, learned the language so I can actually do stuff that there's a huge gap right there. 00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:07.920 Dean out in the live stream says, I wonder if some design decisions that were best in the 90s are less optimal today. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:12.760 I feel like in the 90s it was all about object, object orienting all the things. 00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:17.840 And then there was like a push, like, you know, maybe that's not the best way to just develop everything. 00:27:17.840 --> 00:27:20.840 Like maybe a little bit mix, a little bit of composition and so on. 00:27:20.840 --> 00:27:21.760 That's fun. 00:27:21.760 --> 00:27:30.600 And then John says, coming from a number of other languages, when I first started using Python, I took a conscious effort to seek out learning the idiomatic on way of doing things. 00:27:30.600 --> 00:27:34.620 And I think that's really important because it's so easy to just get it to work and then like leave it there. 00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:36.200 And you're like, no one would ever do this. 00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:40.100 Well, you wouldn't like put your number in a fake for loop that increments that. 00:27:40.100 --> 00:27:41.600 And it goes the other way, too. 00:27:41.600 --> 00:27:52.540 So like Cecil mentioned, real developers, if you work a professional developer is going to know several languages. 00:27:53.180 --> 00:28:01.040 But it's not just knowing three languages and knowing how to code C in three different languages. 00:28:01.040 --> 00:28:05.860 It's about learning the idiomatic way to do Python. 00:28:05.860 --> 00:28:10.640 It's learning how to do C# the way other C# developers do it. 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:16.640 It's not just about trying to translate your own language into three languages or something. 00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.460 And it's even simple stuff like variable naming and function naming, right? 00:28:20.560 --> 00:28:24.440 In Java, you start with a lowercase letter, then have camel case in a Python. 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:25.540 It's all lowercase. 00:28:25.540 --> 00:28:26.240 C#. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.200 I mean, it's just like this person clearly is not of this ecosystem. 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.920 Like you can just tell straight away just by weird things like naming that are so easy to change. 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:34.380 Yeah. 00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:39.860 I think that's one of the things you see a lot when people do like those auto-generated libraries. 00:28:39.860 --> 00:28:45.500 You know, so I know some folks, if you're familiar with things like OpenAPI and Autoress and things of that nature, 00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:50.260 like you point a thing at your API definition, it just generates stuff. 00:28:50.260 --> 00:28:50.840 Right? 00:28:50.840 --> 00:28:53.400 But what if the casing doesn't match, right? 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:58.440 So if I generate like a Java library and a JavaScript library and a Python library, you know, 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.040 but like the casing is going to be different across all those idiomatically. 00:29:02.040 --> 00:29:08.380 But like now these code generator things have to kind of take that into consideration as they're building out these libraries. 00:29:08.380 --> 00:29:13.420 Your classes like Pydantic that automatically map them over now have to look like Java classes or whatever. 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.300 I did see in Pydantic that you can now have an alias. 00:29:16.300 --> 00:29:22.680 So it's like this is what it looks like in JavaScript, but it has this other proper name, like this Python name in Python, 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:23.760 which is I think it's kind of cool. 00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:24.300 All right. 00:29:24.300 --> 00:29:28.080 Let's talk about something that's really fun and visual. 00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:32.040 So there's this thing called Bradio, Gradio, something. 00:29:32.040 --> 00:29:34.140 I'm messing up the pronunciation. 00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:36.860 I'm sure this comes to us from David Smith. 00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:38.500 So thanks for sending that over. 00:29:38.500 --> 00:29:44.780 And this is a really cool way to add simple interactive UIs to your machine learning scripts. 00:29:45.020 --> 00:29:51.120 So it says generate an easy to use UI for your ML model function or API with only a few lines of code 00:29:51.120 --> 00:29:55.300 and integrate it directly into your Python notebook or share a link with anyone. 00:29:55.300 --> 00:30:02.080 So here, like all beautiful user interface things, it actually has not just graphics, but interactive graphics. 00:30:02.080 --> 00:30:07.260 So you might import Gradio and then write the code that implements it 00:30:07.260 --> 00:30:12.360 and then just give it the function that it wants to use and say the input is a sketchpad 00:30:12.360 --> 00:30:15.660 and the output is a label run and that's the implementation. 00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:22.240 So here's a machine learning model that allows me to draw an ink and then tell me what letter it is. 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.520 So if I did like this, it'll tell you, oh, I think that's a seven. 00:30:25.520 --> 00:30:26.140 That's not a seven. 00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:26.940 Let's see. 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:28.080 What about a one? 00:30:28.080 --> 00:30:29.720 You think that's, I think that's a four. 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:33.900 This model is not very good, but that's not the problem. 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:34.860 That's not the point, right? 00:30:34.860 --> 00:30:35.720 That should be a five. 00:30:35.720 --> 00:30:38.720 I'm going to draw, I'm going to do a zero. 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:39.500 There we go. 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:39.900 Yes. 00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:40.940 I nailed it with a zero. 00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:41.900 Two. 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:43.120 Yeah, two and those two. 00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:43.820 I don't know. 00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:48.580 The point is not that the model is accurate, but this is a really cool UI that you can build 00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:50.080 in a couple of lines of code, right? 00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:50.980 I think that's super. 00:30:50.980 --> 00:30:52.260 Yeah, this is pretty nice. 00:30:52.260 --> 00:30:52.820 Yeah. 00:30:52.820 --> 00:30:54.360 Let's see what other examples they got in here. 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:56.960 Question and answer with a paragraph. 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.100 So here's the text that the source text is, you know, Victoria has written a constitution 00:31:02.100 --> 00:31:04.060 enacted in 1975, et cetera, et cetera. 00:31:04.060 --> 00:31:09.180 And then you could ask the model the question, when did Victoria enact its constitution? 00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:09.880 Holy moly. 00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:10.880 Wait for it. 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:11.760 1975. 00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:13.700 Like that is insane. 00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:14.320 Right? 00:31:14.320 --> 00:31:15.220 And you could cool this. 00:31:15.220 --> 00:31:18.420 You can build this cool UI here, a face segmentation. 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:20.380 I'm not going to do my webcam. 00:31:20.380 --> 00:31:22.280 It's going to break stuff for the live stream. 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:26.200 Yeah, all sorts of things though, like little sliders and whatnot. 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.060 We need social distancing. 00:31:28.060 --> 00:31:28.380 Yes. 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:29.100 There we go. 00:31:29.100 --> 00:31:35.200 So pretty neat way to really simply add UIs and integrate them both onto websites and into 00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:35.800 Jupyter notebooks. 00:31:35.800 --> 00:31:36.640 Nice. 00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:37.160 I like it. 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:37.900 I like it. 00:31:37.900 --> 00:31:38.160 Yeah. 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.200 I love too that it's just running in the browser too. 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:41.900 I know. 00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:42.740 That's awesome. 00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:43.340 Yeah. 00:31:43.340 --> 00:31:47.600 I mean, that's proper JavaScript work to be putting like a little sketch pad and then 00:31:47.600 --> 00:31:49.160 taking that image and sending it back up. 00:31:49.620 --> 00:31:51.100 Dean helping us with the naming. 00:31:51.100 --> 00:31:54.540 So ML models usually use gradients. 00:31:54.540 --> 00:31:58.280 So called grade in slang terms, I guess grade IO. 00:31:58.280 --> 00:31:59.320 Yeah, that sounds good. 00:31:59.320 --> 00:31:59.740 Cool. 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:00.120 Thanks. 00:32:00.120 --> 00:32:00.860 All right. 00:32:00.860 --> 00:32:02.820 So you can take us out of here with the last one you got. 00:32:02.820 --> 00:32:04.240 Yeah, sure. 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:05.720 Let's take a look. 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:07.560 All right. 00:32:07.560 --> 00:32:08.860 So my screen should be up now. 00:32:08.860 --> 00:32:14.680 So there's this movie that's coming out later this summer, 2021 called Space Jam. 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:18.420 I don't know if you ever heard about Space Jam, but heard about it. 00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:19.540 I don't know enough. 00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:20.600 What's that? 00:32:20.600 --> 00:32:22.060 I only heard of it. 00:32:22.060 --> 00:32:22.900 I haven't seen it. 00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:23.400 Yeah. 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:28.320 I mean, you know, I know if anyone that's born after like the year 2000 probably has never 00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:29.160 heard of Space Jam. 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:35.560 But what we actually did, so Microsoft and some folks at Warner Brothers, I believe, partnered 00:32:35.560 --> 00:32:40.280 together to create like a set of learning modules and stuff like that around basketball. 00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:42.360 And it was completely inspired by Space Jam. 00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:45.340 So what you're looking at here is a learning path. 00:32:45.340 --> 00:32:49.540 And this learning path, I think, has one, two, three. 00:32:49.540 --> 00:32:52.120 It has about three different modules in here. 00:32:52.120 --> 00:32:55.520 And it kind of walks you through exploring basketball data. 00:32:55.520 --> 00:33:00.320 And you can use that to start like predicting the outcomes of games and player performance and 00:33:00.320 --> 00:33:01.380 all this cool stuff. 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:02.720 But it uses Python. 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:03.840 It uses Pandas. 00:33:03.840 --> 00:33:04.840 It uses VS Code. 00:33:04.840 --> 00:33:07.120 There is some JavaScript in there. 00:33:07.120 --> 00:33:10.240 And there's some like real, you know, there's some NBA data in there. 00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.440 There's some basketball data in there. 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.060 You kind of use and explore and play around with. 00:33:14.060 --> 00:33:15.440 So I think this is really cool. 00:33:15.760 --> 00:33:20.140 Again, going back to the conversation we had before about like, you know, okay, I know some 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:20.760 Python, right? 00:33:20.760 --> 00:33:22.780 Like, how do I do some cool stuff with it? 00:33:22.780 --> 00:33:23.080 Right? 00:33:23.080 --> 00:33:24.060 Like, what's the next step? 00:33:24.060 --> 00:33:28.520 And I thought this was a great example of us showing, hey, let me take something that I 00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:29.240 actually care about. 00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:30.880 Maybe some of you all care about basketball. 00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:31.920 Maybe some of you don't. 00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:36.180 But, you know, whether it's sports or racing or, you know, maybe you like to listen to podcasts. 00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:40.280 How can I take podcast data and run some machine learning and, you know, different things 00:33:40.280 --> 00:33:40.640 around it? 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.780 Like, I think these are all really cool projects for you to think about. 00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:49.040 But this one specifically is about like using basketball stats, you know, inspired by Space 00:33:49.040 --> 00:33:53.280 Jam and using Python and Pandas and just, you know, just creating some really cool projects 00:33:53.280 --> 00:33:53.640 out of it. 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:54.800 So I thought this was cool. 00:33:54.800 --> 00:33:56.920 Hopefully folks check it out and let us know what you think. 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:57.400 Nice. 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.020 So this is a free like learning thing that people can go check out, right? 00:34:01.020 --> 00:34:02.980 Yeah, this is this is 100% free. 00:34:02.980 --> 00:34:03.760 Excuse me. 00:34:03.760 --> 00:34:05.040 It's 100% free. 00:34:05.040 --> 00:34:09.940 Free as in like, I don't need your, you know, your address and information and all of that. 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:10.920 Like you could just go out. 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:11.520 It's a credit card. 00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:12.260 You cancel anytime. 00:34:12.260 --> 00:34:13.120 It's totally free. 00:34:13.560 --> 00:34:16.400 One thing I would tell you, if you do decide to create an account. 00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:18.240 So I have an account here. 00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:20.260 So you'll notice you'll get points. 00:34:20.260 --> 00:34:21.460 You get XP points. 00:34:21.460 --> 00:34:23.540 So this one is worth 4000 XP. 00:34:23.540 --> 00:34:27.300 So if I get that, you know, hopefully I'll bump up and I'll be at a level. 00:34:27.300 --> 00:34:29.620 You're going to go to level nine if you get if you finish this one. 00:34:29.620 --> 00:34:30.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:30.660 --> 00:34:33.980 So I want to I want to make sure I get it make some time to go through this learning 00:34:33.980 --> 00:34:35.300 this learning path. 00:34:35.660 --> 00:34:39.360 But if you do want to sign up, you know, it's a good way to keep score. 00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:41.220 You get badges and all kinds of stuff. 00:34:41.220 --> 00:34:44.400 We do have other Python related courses in here, too. 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:48.500 Like we just released a intro to Django on here. 00:34:48.500 --> 00:34:49.560 That's in here as well. 00:34:49.560 --> 00:34:52.940 So if folks are interested in that and, you know, did you guys do something with Dr. 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:55.980 Becky around like NASA or something? 00:34:55.980 --> 00:34:56.680 Or is that? 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:57.200 --> 00:35:00.800 We did have we do have one that's around the moon landing. 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:06.360 And then also, if you remember that that Netflix movie, I think it's called Over the Moon or 00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:07.000 something like that. 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.640 There's also a learn module, I believe, that's also associated with that movie that we partner 00:35:12.640 --> 00:35:13.480 with Netflix on. 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:14.960 So that was also super cool. 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:15.540 Yeah. 00:35:15.540 --> 00:35:16.040 Nice. 00:35:16.040 --> 00:35:19.800 What I really like about this is when people are trying to get into program, especially 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.280 taking that next step of like, OK, I've learned what a loop is. 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:28.340 It's so hard to know what can I build because you have these like, well, I'd love to build 00:35:28.340 --> 00:35:31.080 a game like, well, building a game takes a team of people in a year. 00:35:31.080 --> 00:35:32.500 Like that's not a good next step. 00:35:32.500 --> 00:35:34.980 It's just like knowing what the next thing to build. 00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:38.080 It's a little more complicated that you're really actually interested in. 00:35:38.080 --> 00:35:42.640 You want to build like this is the type of thing, you know, if you had a like a coding 00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:46.740 club at a high school, maybe COVID times is not the best for this, but you could say, 00:35:46.740 --> 00:35:51.360 let's build an app that will do like statistics for our basketball team and like all sorts 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:56.300 of interesting things like you could build really neat stuff and put it together in ways 00:35:56.300 --> 00:35:57.300 I think people will care about. 00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:58.420 Yeah, exactly. 00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:04.260 And I'm just like I said, just in general, I think the best way for you to go from beginner 00:36:04.260 --> 00:36:08.900 to whatever that next level is, is just find something that you really care about and see 00:36:08.900 --> 00:36:11.080 if you can attach technology to it. 00:36:11.080 --> 00:36:12.840 You know, like I care about basketball. 00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.340 I've been watching basketball for years. 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:17.600 So when I heard Space Jam and Python, I'm like, oh, that's easy. 00:36:17.600 --> 00:36:18.400 You know what I mean? 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.460 Like, yes, like that's something that I care about. 00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:21.640 That's something I want to do. 00:36:21.640 --> 00:36:26.060 Like we mentioned before, we have ones on NASA, but maybe you're into some other stuff. 00:36:26.060 --> 00:36:29.500 Maybe you're into, you know, agriculture and flowers and plants. 00:36:29.500 --> 00:36:32.280 Maybe you want to do something that categorizes that type of stuff. 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:33.280 Maybe you're into cars. 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.540 Maybe you like racing or, you know, some other activity. 00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:41.160 You know, find a way that you can integrate what you're doing with, you know, in your real 00:36:41.160 --> 00:36:44.000 world life with what you're doing in your computer life. 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:44.260 Right. 00:36:44.260 --> 00:36:45.720 And see if we can put those together. 00:36:46.160 --> 00:36:49.580 I think there'd be awesome IoT stuff to do with agriculture. 00:36:49.580 --> 00:36:50.700 Yeah, for sure. 00:36:50.700 --> 00:36:51.420 I think so, too. 00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:57.680 You know, I've heard about like a lot of different projects that, you know, use IoT, you know, 00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:02.520 particularly outside of the United States to do things like detecting diseases and, you 00:37:02.520 --> 00:37:07.240 know, letting them know when's the right time to like manage crops and, you know, getting 00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:12.880 information from, you know, weather APIs and like using it inside of their IoT devices and 00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.900 stuff like that to help make decisions, which I think is really cool. 00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:16.820 Yeah. 00:37:16.820 --> 00:37:18.120 And, you know, when you think about. 00:37:18.120 --> 00:37:20.100 You could look at the crops and say, how wet is this? 00:37:20.100 --> 00:37:22.380 You know, could it hold out 12 more hours? 00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:24.420 Because I see it's going to rain in 12 hours. 00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:27.240 So, like, let's not waste the water now. 00:37:27.240 --> 00:37:27.820 Save some. 00:37:27.820 --> 00:37:28.580 Yeah, exactly. 00:37:28.580 --> 00:37:31.720 Like little micro optimizations like that. 00:37:31.720 --> 00:37:34.740 That'll probably won't save you a lot of money and resources. 00:37:34.740 --> 00:37:38.180 But then also make sure that you're, you know, you can control your environment. 00:37:38.660 --> 00:37:39.020 Yeah. 00:37:39.020 --> 00:37:42.880 But yeah, I think those are all really cool use cases that, you know, we should definitely 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:44.440 encourage more folks to get involved in. 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:44.880 Yeah. 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:48.860 So I don't know if we should go down it, but Dean is calling Jordan the goat. 00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:50.240 I don't know what's going on here. 00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:51.960 I agree with him 100%. 00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:53.380 I would defend that any day. 00:37:53.380 --> 00:37:56.620 It goes Jordan, Kobe, LeBron. 00:37:56.620 --> 00:37:57.740 That's how it goes in my head. 00:37:57.740 --> 00:37:58.340 Awesome. 00:37:58.340 --> 00:37:59.700 All right. 00:37:59.700 --> 00:38:02.080 Well, that's all of our main items. 00:38:02.080 --> 00:38:04.820 Brian, do you have anything extra you want to give a shout out to? 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.680 No, but I just wanted to say, I thought it was a trick question when you said, do you 00:38:08.680 --> 00:38:09.760 know what Space Jam is? 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:12.540 And I thought everybody knew what Space Jam was. 00:38:12.540 --> 00:38:13.280 I had to look it up. 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:14.840 I didn't realize it came out in 96. 00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.000 So it's been a while. 00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:18.000 Absolutely. 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:18.140 Yeah. 00:38:18.140 --> 00:38:18.700 That's what I said. 00:38:18.700 --> 00:38:22.300 If you're born after 2000, like, you know, what Space Jam is? 00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:25.860 If you've got good parents, you'll know because they would have shown you. 00:38:27.620 --> 00:38:30.320 I actually made my son watch it like a couple of weeks ago. 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:31.180 Yeah. 00:38:31.180 --> 00:38:31.860 Did he enjoy it? 00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.480 Yeah. 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:33.040 He loved it. 00:38:33.040 --> 00:38:34.820 Now, you know, one day I came home. 00:38:34.820 --> 00:38:36.780 He's just like, daddy, what are we going to watch tonight? 00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.820 I'm like, I don't know. 00:38:37.820 --> 00:38:38.520 What do you want to watch? 00:38:38.520 --> 00:38:39.800 That's what Space Jam. 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:41.340 I'm like, yes, I'm a good father. 00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:42.160 Yes. 00:38:42.160 --> 00:38:43.000 Got it. 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.580 My wife and I tried to have our daughters watch all the James Bond 007 stuff. 00:38:49.580 --> 00:38:53.060 The natural way would be to start at the very first one with Sean Connery and make 00:38:53.060 --> 00:38:54.180 your way up to Daniel Craig. 00:38:54.180 --> 00:38:55.920 And today they watched like 10 minutes. 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:56.640 Like this is so fake. 00:38:56.680 --> 00:38:57.440 I can't watch this. 00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:57.980 Yeah. 00:38:57.980 --> 00:38:59.100 Different generation. 00:38:59.100 --> 00:38:59.900 Different generation. 00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:00.420 Yeah. 00:39:00.420 --> 00:39:01.240 It's different. 00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:01.840 All right. 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:03.000 So let's see. 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.440 Cecily, got anything you want to give a quick shout out to that didn't land in the main topics? 00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.820 I feel like I should have prepared for this. 00:39:09.820 --> 00:39:10.600 Yeah. 00:39:10.600 --> 00:39:11.640 No, I don't think so. 00:39:11.640 --> 00:39:12.000 Tell me about the Twitch. 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.900 Are you still doing the Twitch streams, Brian? 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:15.000 Yeah, we're still doing the Twitch streams. 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:15.720 Other Brian, Brian Clark. 00:39:15.720 --> 00:39:20.560 My co-host Brian had taken some time off because Brian had a baby. 00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:22.440 So congratulations to Brian and his family. 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:22.880 Congratulations. 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.900 But he will be back. 00:39:25.740 --> 00:39:29.200 Well, he is back, but we'll be live streaming again starting next week. 00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:31.660 Now that he's back and settled and stuff like that. 00:39:31.660 --> 00:39:35.380 But yeah, we do a weekly live stream on Twitch. 00:39:35.380 --> 00:39:38.560 So you can go to twitch.tv. 00:39:38.560 --> 00:39:39.040 I think it is. 00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:41.600 Twitch.tv slash Microsoft Developer. 00:39:42.080 --> 00:39:44.660 It's every Wednesday at 1.30 p.m. 00:39:44.660 --> 00:39:45.480 Eastern Standard Time. 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:48.640 And we just, you know, we talk all things Python. 00:39:48.640 --> 00:39:50.220 We do different projects. 00:39:50.220 --> 00:39:52.960 Yeah, I believe both of you gentlemen have been on. 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:57.620 We've had, you know, Brian come on to talk about testing and solve some problems that I was having. 00:39:58.040 --> 00:40:00.680 And Michael, you came on too, which was great. 00:40:00.680 --> 00:40:05.720 And yeah, we just, you know, we try and take a beginner's perspective. 00:40:05.720 --> 00:40:06.820 You know what I mean? 00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:15.120 You know, my Brian, not Brian on the stream, but like my co-host Brian and myself, we try to take it from the perspective of, okay, well, he knows JavaScript. 00:40:15.260 --> 00:40:30.400 I know C#, let's come together and like play around with Python and, you know, show all the mistakes and the typos and, you know, the things that happen that we don't always see on video and live streams and show people like, well, you know, anyone could really just take the time to learn. 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:31.360 You just got to put in the effort. 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:32.180 Yeah, awesome. 00:40:32.180 --> 00:40:33.760 Yeah, people should definitely check that out. 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:34.600 That's well done. 00:40:34.600 --> 00:40:42.220 So before I give my quick one item that I want to share, Dean says, PyCon Israel is next week, May 2nd and 3rd. 00:40:42.220 --> 00:40:43.060 It's free and virtual. 00:40:43.060 --> 00:40:43.960 So all are welcome. 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:44.220 Yeah. 00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:46.020 Thanks for that real time update. 00:40:46.020 --> 00:40:54.900 And then, Brian, people are loving our, what you call it, the absolute privacy updates to the site. 00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:55.360 Check this out. 00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:00.420 154 people like some random update about removing analytics from the website. 00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:01.420 I think that's great. 00:41:01.420 --> 00:41:02.060 Yeah. 00:41:02.060 --> 00:41:10.640 So now if you go to like pythonbytes.fm in Firefox and you look, there's perfect security shield, perfect privacy shield. 00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:12.140 And we happen to be live streaming. 00:41:12.560 --> 00:41:14.540 So did you just remove Google Analytics from it? 00:41:14.540 --> 00:41:15.040 Is that what you did? 00:41:15.040 --> 00:41:22.120 We were using GetClicky, which is like a more real time, but I think Google Analytics is basically the same. 00:41:22.120 --> 00:41:26.520 The thing I liked about GetClicky is it was a paid service that didn't share your data with advertisers. 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:28.380 So it was better, at least in that regard. 00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:35.820 But all the ad blockers and everything were already like degrading the data so badly that it was kind of like, well, it's maybe half of the population. 00:41:35.820 --> 00:41:38.000 I don't know that we get information about it. 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.760 So let's just take it out. 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:39.260 Right. 00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:40.460 Got it. 00:41:40.460 --> 00:41:40.680 Got it. 00:41:40.680 --> 00:41:40.680 Got it. 00:41:40.680 --> 00:41:41.080 Got it. 00:41:41.080 --> 00:41:41.340 All right. 00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:47.200 I wish we would have had this joke last week, maybe two weeks ago, but I've got a good joke for us. 00:41:47.200 --> 00:41:54.300 You know, there was that giant evergreen shipping container thing that clogged up the canals at the Suez Canal. 00:41:54.480 --> 00:42:03.080 Costs like $400 million an hour lost commerce with the Middle East and Europe. 00:42:03.080 --> 00:42:03.360 Right. 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:04.220 That was bad. 00:42:04.220 --> 00:42:09.480 So there's this great joke here about Linux containers and Kubernetes. 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:16.320 So it's got the evergreen ship stuck sideways and like another shipping container clearly stopped. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.540 Like this is blocked. 00:42:17.540 --> 00:42:18.400 We can't make it through. 00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.700 And then the title is Linux containers and Kubernetes for beginners. 00:42:21.700 --> 00:42:22.540 Like containers. 00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:23.660 Yeah, that'll fix it. 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:24.900 Hilarious. 00:42:24.900 --> 00:42:27.180 That's hilarious. 00:42:27.180 --> 00:42:29.360 By the way, did they ever get that thing out? 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.480 It got out like a week ago, I think. 00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:31.760 Yeah. 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:36.280 Eventually they had to dig the sand out underneath it until it could float again, basically. 00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:37.620 Oh my gosh. 00:42:37.620 --> 00:42:38.520 That's ridiculous. 00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:41.760 And then Cecil, are you a fan of the Oh Really covers? 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:42.640 I am. 00:42:42.640 --> 00:42:42.900 Yeah. 00:42:42.900 --> 00:42:43.460 Yeah. 00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:43.720 Yeah. 00:42:43.720 --> 00:42:46.420 So we've got the Oh Really instead of O'Reilly. 00:42:46.420 --> 00:42:47.880 Kubernetes for beginners. 00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:48.640 What could go wrong? 00:42:48.640 --> 00:42:49.100 Dev oops. 00:42:49.100 --> 00:42:49.600 Nice. 00:42:49.600 --> 00:42:50.240 I like it. 00:42:50.240 --> 00:42:51.260 Dev oops. 00:42:51.260 --> 00:42:51.700 I like it. 00:42:51.700 --> 00:42:53.960 But I love the evergreen container ship. 00:42:54.120 --> 00:42:54.560 Containers. 00:42:54.560 --> 00:42:55.180 That'll fix it. 00:42:55.180 --> 00:42:57.340 That's hilarious. 00:42:57.340 --> 00:42:58.480 Yeah. 00:42:58.480 --> 00:42:59.700 All right, Brian. 00:42:59.700 --> 00:43:00.100 Is that it? 00:43:00.100 --> 00:43:00.740 Yeah. 00:43:00.740 --> 00:43:01.400 Is that a show? 00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:02.200 Put a wrap on it? 00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:03.000 Nice bow. 00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:03.540 Yeah. 00:43:03.540 --> 00:43:04.280 Good job. 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:05.060 Good guest. 00:43:05.060 --> 00:43:05.780 Yeah. 00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:07.560 Great guest, Cecil. 00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:08.860 Super to catch up with you. 00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:10.120 Thank you for being on the show again. 00:43:10.120 --> 00:43:11.080 Thanks, everybody. 00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:12.740 Thank you both for having me come on, man. 00:43:12.740 --> 00:43:14.420 Again, it's always a fun time. 00:43:14.420 --> 00:43:15.560 I'm trying to break the record. 00:43:15.560 --> 00:43:19.960 I want to know who your most frequent guest is and whatever that is, I want to break the 00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:20.140 record. 00:43:20.140 --> 00:43:24.300 Oh, I'm going to get one of those great IO type things and point it at our site and then 00:43:24.300 --> 00:43:24.860 I'll ask it. 00:43:24.860 --> 00:43:25.480 Yeah. 00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:27.040 Let me know. 00:43:27.040 --> 00:43:29.960 No, I think actually probably you're near the top. 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:30.920 I have to do some counting. 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:31.460 We'll have to see. 00:43:31.460 --> 00:43:32.380 But yeah, for sure. 00:43:32.380 --> 00:43:32.960 Yeah. 00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:33.320 Let me know. 00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:35.320 I got to make sure I keep standards high. 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:36.480 That's right. 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.340 Brett Cannon out there in the live stream. 00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:39.540 If he's still there, he's definitely one. 00:43:39.540 --> 00:43:41.080 He's one of the contenders as well. 00:43:41.080 --> 00:43:42.520 So we'll let you know. 00:43:42.520 --> 00:43:43.060 Okay. 00:43:43.060 --> 00:43:43.720 Yeah. 00:43:43.720 --> 00:43:44.300 Cool. 00:43:44.300 --> 00:43:45.760 Well, bye, everybody. 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:46.680 Bye, everyone. 00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:47.320 Take care. 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:47.980 See ya. 00:43:47.980 --> 00:43:49.920 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.480 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.360 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.760 And get the full show notes at Python Bytes.fm. 00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:03.120 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit Python Bytes.fm and send it our way. 00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:05.820 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:44:05.820 --> 00:44:09.060 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. 00:44:09.500 --> 00:44:12.620 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.