WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:05.060 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.060 --> 00:00:09.280 This is episode 237, recorded June 9, 2021. 00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:10.740 I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:11.720 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:12.880 And I'm Mike Groves. 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:15.840 Hey Mike, thanks for showing up today. Tell us a little bit about yourself. 00:00:15.840 --> 00:00:18.280 Yeah, well thank you guys for having me. This is actually really fun. 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:23.500 My name is Mike Groves. I am leading the engineering at a company called Assembly AI. 00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:28.020 We are mainly a Python shop, but we do a lot. 00:00:28.240 --> 00:00:33.500 We do speech-to-text for developers. We're an API company. 00:00:33.500 --> 00:00:44.180 So you can really think of us as we are trying to make speech-to-text and all of the ways that you can take that text and do things with it really easy for developers 00:00:44.180 --> 00:00:49.220 so that they can integrate this value into their products and make their customers happier. 00:00:49.220 --> 00:00:50.200 Yeah, that's really cool. 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:56.480 I had somebody who, you know, I had spoken to you guys at Assembly AI for some Talk Python stuff, 00:00:56.480 --> 00:00:59.060 but someone else that I'm working with reached out to me and said, 00:00:59.060 --> 00:01:04.500 hey, I'm doing this stuff with this Assembly AI API and I don't know how to save the file that well. 00:01:04.500 --> 00:01:07.220 Can you help me? I'm like, oh, this looks really simple. This is really nice. 00:01:07.220 --> 00:01:08.200 So yeah, you guys are doing good work. 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:09.580 Yeah, we try to make it really simple. 00:01:09.580 --> 00:01:10.080 Yeah. 00:01:10.080 --> 00:01:11.160 Yeah, fantastic. 00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:13.080 Brian, shall we kick it off? 00:01:13.080 --> 00:01:14.400 I think we should. 00:01:14.740 --> 00:01:15.240 With a TUI. 00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:16.140 Oh, yeah. 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:16.660 We've heard of a GUI. 00:01:16.660 --> 00:01:18.740 A GUI, a graphical user interface. 00:01:18.740 --> 00:01:25.100 And this new trend of taking stuff that happens in the terminal and making it nicer. 00:01:25.100 --> 00:01:27.880 We've covered things like Rich and stuff before, right? 00:01:27.880 --> 00:01:28.760 Yeah, a lot. 00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:29.340 I love Rich. 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:30.240 Yeah, I do too. 00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:31.800 And I'm a super, super big fan. 00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:36.240 So I want to cover something that's like a derivative of Rich from Will McGann. 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:40.400 See, here we are messing up names already. 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:40.880 Sorry, Will. 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:48.460 And the idea is if I wanted to create like Emacs or a richer UI with something like Rich, 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:53.360 I can sort of control stuff on the screen and how it prints, but it's not full on curses, 00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:53.660 right? 00:01:53.660 --> 00:01:57.580 It's not, I want to write in this section over here and I want to dock this other bit to the 00:01:57.580 --> 00:02:00.480 right and have Rich automatically put stuff into it and so on. 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:03.520 So I introduce you to Textual. 00:02:03.520 --> 00:02:10.620 It was called rich.tui, T-U-I, as in text, terminal user interface, but it's now called Textual. 00:02:10.940 --> 00:02:12.860 And the idea is we can have these cool things. 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:18.040 Like I would like a thing to be a header of my terminal app and the footer of my terminal app. 00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:23.460 And I want to dock a 30 column wide section to the left and then just fill out the rest 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:25.820 in a little area that just takes the rest of the space. 00:02:25.820 --> 00:02:26.700 How cool is that? 00:02:26.700 --> 00:02:27.980 Yeah, this is great. 00:02:27.980 --> 00:02:28.460 Yeah. 00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:32.520 And then each one of these areas is written to and controlled by Rich. 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:37.000 So all the nice stuff that we've already talked about with Rich and the really nice 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:38.320 things you get from there. 00:02:38.480 --> 00:02:45.580 So, you know, if people remember like Rich lets you have spectrums and like centered text 00:02:45.580 --> 00:02:49.720 or right aligned text and tables and just all sorts of good stuff. 00:02:49.720 --> 00:02:51.360 So think of doing that. 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.040 But on top of this, like it's almost like a layout for terminals. 00:02:55.040 --> 00:02:58.540 Yeah, he's kind of rethinking how to do terminal stuff. 00:02:58.540 --> 00:03:03.640 So this, I know you can do all of this stuff with Curses libraries and things like that, 00:03:03.640 --> 00:03:07.000 but Curses isn't always easy on all platforms. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.200 So he's rethinking all of it. 00:03:10.200 --> 00:03:12.340 And I think it's really kind of fun. 00:03:12.340 --> 00:03:12.740 Yeah. 00:03:12.740 --> 00:03:15.100 I do want to point out something here really quick. 00:03:16.100 --> 00:03:20.240 There's a comment in the readmeant says, this project is currently a work in progress and 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.040 may not be usable for a while. 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:27.920 So, you know, just kind of maybe watch the repo and get notifications and stuff and see, 00:03:27.920 --> 00:03:29.360 you know, keep your eye out for it. 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:34.340 On the other hand, this kind of thing with these early stages, a lot of people contact us and 00:03:34.340 --> 00:03:35.900 say, I really want to get into open source. 00:03:35.900 --> 00:03:38.380 I want to contribute to some project. 00:03:38.380 --> 00:03:39.580 What should I work on? 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:40.360 Should I work on Django? 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:42.540 It's like, well, that's going to be a little bit complicated. 00:03:42.540 --> 00:03:46.420 It's highly polished and there's a ton of dependencies like projects like this that 00:03:46.420 --> 00:03:50.680 are in the early stages are really good for jumping in and getting involved if it sparks 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:51.200 your interest. 00:03:51.200 --> 00:03:52.260 So, yeah. 00:03:52.260 --> 00:03:57.320 And there's a lot of room for people to do things like out of the testing, do documentation, 00:03:57.320 --> 00:04:01.980 test on different platforms and really help it so that Will can concentrate on doing more 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:02.340 features. 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:03.220 Yeah. 00:04:03.220 --> 00:04:03.960 Yeah, exactly. 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:06.040 Even documentation, like a little tutorial or whatever. 00:04:06.040 --> 00:04:11.500 And Kim out in the live stream, Kim says, I would argue Curses isn't easy anywhere. 00:04:11.500 --> 00:04:12.020 I agree. 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:15.420 It always feels like, oh boy, we're going down this path. 00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:16.340 Mike, what do you think? 00:04:16.340 --> 00:04:19.700 Well, it looks like a really cool library. 00:04:19.700 --> 00:04:24.260 And I think for me, I try to think of what would I use it for and certainly a lot of internal 00:04:24.260 --> 00:04:31.860 tooling that we could use this for so that we can make better ways of monitoring our machine 00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:33.460 learning systems and how that all works. 00:04:33.460 --> 00:04:36.280 And so, yeah, I think that would be something I would like to look at. 00:04:37.340 --> 00:04:45.840 And also just a lot of times, too, is just trying something out, even if you have a good day or two to just try it out and hit the bug so you can really communicate that with the community. 00:04:45.840 --> 00:04:48.980 And what is broken and what could be fixed? 00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:50.080 Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:51.620 I'm excited to see where this goes. 00:04:52.980 --> 00:04:53.340 Yeah. 00:04:53.340 --> 00:04:56.140 So next up, we want to talk about pip-tools. 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:03.340 actually, one of the listeners, John Hagen, contacted us a while ago and said, hey, have you covered this? 00:05:03.340 --> 00:05:05.640 And we thought we had, but I don't think we have. 00:05:05.640 --> 00:05:07.860 So I'm going to cover it now. 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:09.300 pip-tools. 00:05:09.620 --> 00:05:18.280 So we've talked about other things around Pip, like poetry and there's other ways to, you know, some virtual environment controllers and stuff. 00:05:18.280 --> 00:05:19.360 This isn't that. 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:21.000 This isn't an all-in-one thing. 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:29.180 But one of the things that, like, for instance, poetry gives you is, and a couple other packaging things, is lock files and stuff. 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.600 And kind of a lock file really isn't, I mean, it isn't really what it does. 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.440 I don't know if it's a lock file or a pinned requirements. 00:05:37.440 --> 00:05:42.060 But the idea around, pip-tools does a whole bunch of stuff. 00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:44.660 But right now, I'm just going to concentrate on the compile part. 00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:49.260 So the problem it solves is, so let's say I've got, like, I'm going to give an example. 00:05:49.260 --> 00:05:51.680 I've got, like, a requirement. 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:56.700 My dependency is rich and typer is, like, two libraries I'm depending on. 00:05:56.940 --> 00:06:03.500 I could just have a simple requirements.in file that has this, just those two labels in it. 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:10.100 And then with pip-tools, I can take that and take that requirements.in file and compile it. 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:11.040 I run pip compile. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.260 And then I get, like, a pinned list. 00:06:15.260 --> 00:06:18.660 And it actually just goes ahead and writes the requirements.txt file. 00:06:18.660 --> 00:06:26.640 So just from an easy, I require these things, and it'll pop out the actual pinned dependencies. 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:33.060 And now I can deploy this, and all the other developers and stuff can use it and be okay with it. 00:06:33.060 --> 00:06:39.320 Of course, before you do the deployment, please test this. 00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:46.440 So that's the idea, as you update your requirements and then test it before you deploy it. 00:06:46.440 --> 00:06:53.240 But this little extra step of taking, like, I've got a loose list of requirements, and I want to create a pinned list. 00:06:53.240 --> 00:07:00.660 You can also, there's pip-tools also has a way to just say, let me get the syntax right, upgrade. 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.880 So you say --upgrade, and it updates your requirements. 00:07:03.880 --> 00:07:07.660 One of the things I love about it also is it doesn't just do one file. 00:07:07.660 --> 00:07:19.180 So if you've got a requirements.txt and a dev requirements.txt, for instance, with your testing tools, pytest and such, you can throw that in a different file, and it'll update those too. 00:07:19.180 --> 00:07:24.680 So you can have as many, actually, as many requirements files as you want, and it handles it just fine. 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:26.500 So this is a really cool thing. 00:07:26.500 --> 00:07:38.480 Jonathan also gave us an example project, this Python blueprint that has example code in it, and it uses this workflow, and it has it in the readme. 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.740 So if you want to check out a project that uses this, go ahead and do that. 00:07:41.740 --> 00:07:47.420 I don't really, actually, to be honest, I don't use pip-tools for anything other than this. 00:07:47.420 --> 00:07:49.380 This is what I use pip-tools for, is just this. 00:07:49.380 --> 00:07:52.260 I know it does other things too, but this is what I use it for. 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:53.920 I'm psyched about this. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:54.720 This looks fantastic. 00:07:55.200 --> 00:08:06.980 I have requirements.txt and a dev requirements-dev.txt, and in there, I've been putting, like, at the top, here's the stuff that I really wanted to install. 00:08:06.980 --> 00:08:19.080 And below it, these are the things I want to pin, not because I actually care about them, or you would actually need to mention them, but I want things like to pin the bot to see that there's a security problem in the dependency I'm using, not the thing itself. 00:08:19.080 --> 00:08:21.420 And so it'll bump the version and fix it, right? 00:08:22.200 --> 00:08:26.020 And that means, I just noticed a couple days ago that there's these other libraries. 00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:27.900 I'm like, where did this come from? 00:08:27.900 --> 00:08:32.780 This is in my virtual environment, and I didn't, it's not in either of those scenarios, right? 00:08:32.780 --> 00:08:36.940 Well, some new dependency was added to the main dependency that I didn't pay attention to. 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:42.720 So now I'm, like, babysitting the bottom half of my requirements.txt file, which seems like a thing I don't want to do with life. 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:43.240 Yeah. 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:44.300 This is beautiful. 00:08:44.300 --> 00:08:45.360 I'm all about this. 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:49.040 I'm very much thinking that this is going to be something I'm using out there. 00:08:49.040 --> 00:08:50.040 My guys seem to agree. 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:51.620 Yeah, I absolutely agree. 00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:53.760 And I actually have, we do not use this. 00:08:53.760 --> 00:08:57.560 I do not use this, but I will be looking into this right after this podcast. 00:08:57.560 --> 00:09:00.900 So, you know, like, why am I not doing what? 00:09:00.900 --> 00:09:02.760 This is, this will make my life a lot easier. 00:09:02.760 --> 00:09:04.360 And I'm definitely going to look into it. 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:04.680 Yeah. 00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:10.500 Now, Juergen brings up, oh, you, the pip-tools is awesome. 00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:12.320 Yes, it is. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:16.120 And he also brings up that it's all about the app versus library story. 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:18.520 So pip-tools is definitely on the app side. 00:09:18.520 --> 00:09:27.260 So you, you wouldn't want completely pinned dependencies in a library because it might conflict with the rest of the application. 00:09:27.260 --> 00:09:28.180 Right. 00:09:28.180 --> 00:09:33.980 Or pin you to say, I have to have the one that has the vulnerability in it rather than the newer one that fixes it, right? 00:09:33.980 --> 00:09:34.580 You don't want that. 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:35.000 Yeah. 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:35.380 Right. 00:09:35.380 --> 00:09:35.900 Yeah. 00:09:35.900 --> 00:09:36.460 Awesome. 00:09:36.460 --> 00:09:37.260 Yeah. 00:09:37.260 --> 00:09:38.380 So I think. 00:09:38.380 --> 00:09:39.760 Yeah, I think you're up. 00:09:39.760 --> 00:09:40.180 I think I'm up. 00:09:40.180 --> 00:09:40.540 All right. 00:09:40.540 --> 00:09:40.960 Now you. 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:41.320 Okay. 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.480 So here, here's a hint on the pronunciation, but you're going to have to give this a shot on your own. 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:46.100 Yeah. 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:49.580 So I'm going to say it's, it's penguin, but I guess you could call it penguin. 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:50.140 I don't know. 00:09:50.140 --> 00:10:00.000 I don't know what the proper pronunciation there is, but so penguin is a library for automating the generation of, of tests. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.520 So basically what you do is it's CLI. 00:10:03.520 --> 00:10:04.380 You set this up. 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:06.700 You point it at your code. 00:10:06.700 --> 00:10:09.260 You can sometimes give it hints. 00:10:09.260 --> 00:10:16.600 And then it goes off and it processes the, the, your, your files and produces tests. 00:10:17.160 --> 00:10:18.440 Just disclaimer here. 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:20.740 They mentioned this several times, and this is very important. 00:10:20.740 --> 00:10:22.220 It will run your code. 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:25.520 So, and it, it will try many different inputs. 00:10:25.520 --> 00:10:29.300 So you have to be very careful with what that code is doing. 00:10:29.300 --> 00:10:37.120 So they suggest wrapping it in a Docker container to prevent it from affecting or poisoning your, your file system. 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:37.560 Yeah. 00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:39.800 Maybe don't give it access to the production database. 00:10:39.800 --> 00:10:40.660 Something like that. 00:10:40.900 --> 00:10:41.700 Yes, exactly. 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:41.780 Exactly. 00:10:41.780 --> 00:10:42.220 Exactly. 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:42.220 Exactly. 00:10:42.220 --> 00:10:51.540 So, so yes, this, this, this, I had, I didn't go deep into it, but I know that they're using some interesting search techniques. 00:10:51.540 --> 00:10:55.700 This is actually developed by a college at a university and there's a white paper behind it. 00:10:55.700 --> 00:11:12.020 I don't think it's here, but if you, if you look it up, I'm sure you could find the white paper that's associated, but it's supposed to be a very interesting technique around searching for, you know, the inputs that would be, you know, that would find good edge cases. 00:11:12.020 --> 00:11:19.160 So it does take a while to run, they say, so that you can give it some hints and they talk about that within the documentation. 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:23.900 But I really think this is something for me, you know, I look at tools, I'm like, well, what would I use it for? 00:11:24.260 --> 00:11:32.720 And, and I think, you know, a lot of times we're busy and we don't get the coverage that we really want to get because, you know, deadlines and, you know, we want to land this customer. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.100 And, and so we have to get, we have to, you know, work really quick to get this one feature done. 00:11:37.100 --> 00:11:41.300 And we don't, we only get half coverage instead of getting, you know, a 90% or plus. 00:11:41.300 --> 00:11:53.600 So, so I think this tool could help maybe bridge that gap in those cases and maybe give you a jump, a jumpstart to, to getting the coverage that you're looking for on your projects. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:55.640 So that's what I'm looking at it for. 00:11:55.640 --> 00:11:58.200 And yeah, I think it's a cool project. 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.340 It looks like one of those systems, a little bit like hypothesis. 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:02.440 Are you familiar with hypothesis? 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:04.300 Only by name. 00:12:04.300 --> 00:12:05.640 I haven't actually looked into it. 00:12:05.640 --> 00:12:12.860 Where it kind of tries to determine, oh, what are some edge cases and some, like you give it bounds of data and it'll test different scenarios for you. 00:12:12.860 --> 00:12:14.300 It looks, it looks quite interesting. 00:12:14.300 --> 00:12:15.300 Brian, are you familiar with this? 00:12:15.560 --> 00:12:19.940 I'm not, I am actually often leery of test generators. 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:23.180 But I don't know if people find it useful. 00:12:23.180 --> 00:12:24.460 Maybe it's worth checking out. 00:12:24.460 --> 00:12:24.880 Yeah. 00:12:24.880 --> 00:12:25.100 Yeah. 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:25.540 Yeah. 00:12:25.540 --> 00:12:26.000 It looks neat. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:26.780 Yeah. 00:12:26.780 --> 00:12:27.340 I'm the same. 00:12:27.340 --> 00:12:28.440 I would say I'm the same, Brian. 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:33.360 I did, you know, I was a little bit leery, I guess about, about the idea of it. 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:43.300 For me, as I said, I think it's just really that gap that, you know, if you have a gap in coverage and you're really just trying to get a quick, a quick jumpstart on, on your, your coverage. 00:12:43.300 --> 00:12:45.080 This might be a good tool to start with. 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:46.280 That's, that's my thought. 00:12:46.280 --> 00:12:46.720 Yeah. 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:47.180 Yeah. 00:12:47.180 --> 00:12:47.560 Very cool. 00:12:47.560 --> 00:12:48.180 That's good. 00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:51.720 Although, Brian, I don't know if you really want to encourage it too much. 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:52.460 You're getting out there. 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:55.840 If I'd known about Penguin earlier, I might not have bought Brian's testing book. 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:57.600 You didn't need to highlight that. 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.920 Indeed. 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:01.080 Indeed. 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:02.060 All right. 00:13:02.060 --> 00:13:02.700 You got the next one? 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.300 Well, I wanted to, I think we're at the sponsor bit. 00:13:07.300 --> 00:13:08.400 I believe we are. 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:08.980 Yeah. 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:10.780 So let's, yeah. 00:13:10.780 --> 00:13:12.920 So I don't have our sponsor up. 00:13:12.920 --> 00:13:14.100 I got you. 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:14.900 There we go. 00:13:14.900 --> 00:13:17.520 This episode of Python Bytes is brought to you by Sentry. 00:13:17.520 --> 00:13:20.340 How would you like to remove a little stress from your life? 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:26.520 Well, do you worry about users that, do you worry that users may be having difficulties or encountering errors in your app? 00:13:26.520 --> 00:13:30.600 Right now, would you even know until they sent you a support email? 00:13:31.020 --> 00:13:41.540 How much better would it be to have the error and performance details immediately sent to you, including the call stack and values of local variables and the active user recorded in the report? 00:13:41.540 --> 00:13:42.500 That'd be awesome. 00:13:42.500 --> 00:13:44.880 With Sentry, it's not only possible, but simple. 00:13:44.880 --> 00:13:50.100 In fact, Michael uses Sentry on all of his web properties, including Python Bytes here. 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:56.600 He actually fixed a bug triggered by a user and had the upgrade ready to roll out as he got the support email. 00:13:56.600 --> 00:13:59.800 That's also Sentry, but also because Michael's awesome. 00:13:59.800 --> 00:14:02.980 But anyway, surprise and delight your users today. 00:14:02.980 --> 00:14:06.400 Create your Sentry account at pythonbytes.fm/sentry. 00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:14.420 And please, when signing up, click the got a promo code and redeem and enter pythonbytes, all one word. 00:14:14.420 --> 00:14:22.740 It's good for two free months of Sentry's team plan, which will give you up to 20 times as many monthly events as well as other features. 00:14:22.940 --> 00:14:27.800 That's pythonbytes dash slash Sentry and promo code pythonbytes. 00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:28.320 Yep. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:28.820 Thanks, Sentry. 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:29.520 All right. 00:14:29.520 --> 00:14:30.780 I guess I got the next one. 00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:34.140 This one is sent in by a friend of the show, Brian Skin. 00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:34.880 Thank you, Brian. 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:45.620 And he let us know that there is something out there for all of us who love these external packages and all of these amazing Lego building blocks that are PyPI. 00:14:45.620 --> 00:14:51.480 And yet that's running other people's code with dependencies on them getting things right. 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:54.540 And this is under the PyPA. 00:14:54.540 --> 00:15:01.660 So this is sort of pretty neat in terms of being officially the Python Packaging Authority group, right? 00:15:01.660 --> 00:15:02.720 I believe. 00:15:03.140 --> 00:15:05.960 And so it's called the advisory dash DB. 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:11.000 It's a security advisory database for Python packages published on PyPI.org. 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:24.340 And the idea is if somebody finds some major problem with the package or maybe even worse, maybe it's like a typo squatting scenario, but more like, you know, that part where they were supposed to check the input in that form. 00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:26.660 And then they did this direct SQL query. 00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:27.700 They didn't do that. 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:28.380 Now they are. 00:15:28.380 --> 00:15:33.020 You really, really should change that so that they're using like parameterized queries now. 00:15:33.020 --> 00:15:38.580 And so there's vulnerabilities directory that is just a bunch of YAML files. 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:43.700 You come over here, like let's take one here that maybe is security conscious bleach. 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:45.600 I love the name of this package. 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:50.200 The idea is you take user input and you sanitize it by putting bleach on it, which is fantastic. 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.880 But even the sanitizer is going to have problems, right? 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:55.420 So we checked this out back apparently in 2020. 00:15:56.300 --> 00:15:59.340 There's a problem with bleach in PyPI. 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:08.080 It said in Mozilla bleach before 3.12, a mutation XSS cross site scripted in bleach.clean win RC data. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:15.420 And either the SVG or math tags are whitelisted and such and such as said like, oh my gosh, but here's all the version of effects. 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:16.580 And here's the fixed version. 00:16:16.580 --> 00:16:22.560 And then there's some more info about like where that was spoken about, like where the problem was discovered and so on. 00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:23.400 This is really cool. 00:16:23.400 --> 00:16:32.820 So if you depend on these packages and we already spoke at the beginning about how having a tracking your dependencies, not just the things you directly install, let you let you be more aware of this. 00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:32.960 Right. 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:37.640 You could look at that pip-tools generated requirements.txt file and see this problem. 00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:42.560 And then very likely GitHub through dependent bot would even be proposing a fix. 00:16:42.560 --> 00:16:43.280 What do you guys think? 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:44.100 Yeah, that's great. 00:16:44.100 --> 00:16:45.600 I think this is cool. 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:47.300 So how do you use it? 00:16:47.300 --> 00:16:49.380 Do you just look stuff up or? 00:16:49.380 --> 00:16:50.700 You let it help you. 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:52.740 I mean, you can come over here and obviously look it up. 00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:54.780 It depends on what's going on. 00:16:54.780 --> 00:17:00.220 I think more if you're maintaining a package, you can do a PR to let people know. 00:17:00.380 --> 00:17:04.300 There's a triage service, which goes through the NIST. 00:17:04.300 --> 00:17:07.440 It pulls a lot of data from the NIST, what's that called? 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.960 The National Vulnerability Database Data Feed. 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:11.140 Say that again. 00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:15.520 So if it gets submitted there, a lot of the data gets pulled back in. 00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:19.440 They have a tool to perform some heuristics to match that back up. 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.540 And then you can do, most importantly, is there's an API that you can use. 00:17:23.540 --> 00:17:30.100 So these vulnerabilities, when submitted to this GitHub repository, are then submitted outwardly to this place 00:17:30.100 --> 00:17:34.440 called the Open Source Vulnerability or the Database for Open Source Vulnerabilities. 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:39.720 And then this has an API that people can call to learn about these problems. 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:46.220 So if you ran, I don't know, if you were an API company and you wanted to make sure your API wasn't getting hacked by having a bad dependency, 00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:49.960 maybe you make this part of your CI, CD or something, Mike. 00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:50.680 Yeah, absolutely. 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:55.640 I'm going to have to tell our DevOps guru, Mitch, to look into this. 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:57.040 Exactly. 00:17:57.040 --> 00:18:06.980 So, I mean, for the most part, having stuff pinned in GitHub will trigger an immediate security notification to you when GitHub finds out about it, 00:18:06.980 --> 00:18:07.860 when it makes it out. 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:13.360 But if you want to be a little more proactive or you're a security researcher or something like that, this looks like a good one. 00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:21.300 In the longer term, we're looking, we're working with the PyPI team to build a pipeline to automatically get these vulnerabilities into PyPI. 00:18:21.300 --> 00:18:23.700 So maybe like you could see it or something like that. 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.340 I'm not exactly sure what the story is there. 00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:30.840 But it's a start for basically storing that data and sharing that data. 00:18:30.840 --> 00:18:34.300 And then hopefully like it, it makes its way over to PyPI and such. 00:18:34.300 --> 00:18:35.860 Sam Morley, welcome. 00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:37.160 Glad you made the live show, man. 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.600 Said, is there a tool that can run like a pre-commit hook? 00:18:40.600 --> 00:18:48.960 I feel like maybe with just a tiny bit of wrapper, you could call that API over at the open source vulnerabilities project and get some information back. 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:49.700 Yeah, that'd be cool. 00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:50.800 Yeah, that would be a cool thing. 00:18:50.800 --> 00:18:51.620 Like, don't check that in. 00:18:51.620 --> 00:18:52.520 It's got a problem. 00:18:52.520 --> 00:18:54.660 Don't push it. 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:55.780 Yeah, exactly. 00:18:56.220 --> 00:18:56.540 Exactly. 00:18:56.540 --> 00:18:59.000 So anyway, I think this is a pretty cool one. 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.000 Thanks, Brian Skin for sending it in. 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.480 Yeah. 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:02.860 So I don't know. 00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:06.440 Sorry, but I was going to say, yeah, you're a C++ developer, right? 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:06.940 Yeah. 00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:10.140 And C++ is all about overriding functions by type. 00:19:10.140 --> 00:19:11.100 Like, oh, it takes an int. 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:11.720 It takes a float. 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:13.400 This one takes a string and it's totally different. 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:14.400 Python doesn't have that. 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.160 Yeah. 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.980 What's funny is I don't actually use it that much in C++. 00:19:17.980 --> 00:19:25.880 I mean, you learn about it a lot, but I don't, I mean, I normally don't write a whole bunch of functions that have the same name, but take different 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:26.340 parameters. 00:19:26.340 --> 00:19:28.440 But you can do, yes, you can do that. 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:30.100 Definitely do it in C++ and C. 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:35.800 And there's probably other languages you can do that in, but those are the two main languages that I work with. 00:19:35.800 --> 00:19:36.120 Yeah. 00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:37.320 C#, for example, does it. 00:19:37.320 --> 00:19:37.600 Okay. 00:19:37.600 --> 00:19:38.420 As well. 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:39.920 The Python, you can do that. 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.380 The Python, you cannot. 00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:48.820 So Python, if you try to do that, the second one wins and you just have another name that is attached to the function. 00:19:49.340 --> 00:20:05.740 I was, and I never really thought that I had a problem with this, but there are definitely times where it would be simpler to not try to put a switch in place or something and just have several functions that dealt with related things, but in different functions. 00:20:05.800 --> 00:20:11.320 So there's an article called The Correct Way to Overload Functions in Python. 00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:20.120 And maybe it is, but I'm not somebody that likes to use the phrase the correct way because somebody will tell me I'm wrong. 00:20:20.120 --> 00:20:21.880 But anyway, it's an interesting article. 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:25.140 You might, for example, hear like you shouldn't overload functions in Python. 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:27.320 You're doing it wrong if you do it at all, for example, right? 00:20:27.320 --> 00:20:28.300 Yeah, exactly. 00:20:28.300 --> 00:20:30.040 Although this is a cool solution. 00:20:30.040 --> 00:20:30.960 I totally like it. 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:31.580 Definitely. 00:20:31.580 --> 00:20:32.520 It's a cool solution. 00:20:32.520 --> 00:20:37.500 So there's this, there's apparently a built-in way with Functools. 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:43.820 So there's a, Functools has a decorator called Single Dispatch. 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:50.620 And what it does is you can decorate a, basically a function signature with a single function. 00:20:50.620 --> 00:20:53.480 You say, I'm going to single dispatch this function. 00:20:53.480 --> 00:21:02.640 And then you register all, you do like the name of the function dot register as decorators around other functions. 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:07.520 And the example shown in the articles just uses underscore. 00:21:07.520 --> 00:21:10.440 I'm guessing that's just because you don't care what the name is. 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.680 I don't know, but that seems like a good way to do it. 00:21:13.260 --> 00:21:17.220 And then you've got, then after that, you just have, that works. 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.600 It works like you've done function overloading. 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:20.800 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:21:20.800 --> 00:21:28.120 So in the example it takes, you can call this format function with a string, with a date, with a date time, and a time. 00:21:28.120 --> 00:21:31.460 And you actually get, there's like three different functions that get called. 00:21:31.460 --> 00:21:35.140 One for a string, one for a date, one that just falls back or something, right? 00:21:35.140 --> 00:21:35.700 Yeah. 00:21:35.700 --> 00:21:38.400 I mean, it's a pretty simple example. 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.940 And if you, and it's pretty clean code. 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:47.320 So I would definitely try to keep all these things together in one, you know, in one module, of course. 00:21:47.320 --> 00:21:49.840 You would be mean to put them in different places. 00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:50.760 That would be so wrong. 00:21:51.220 --> 00:21:54.400 Or even like spread out in the same function would be terrible. 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.860 But keeping them together, this is great. 00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:10.400 One of the things that the article mentions is that this, you can't really, it's called single dispatch because it's based on the type of the first, I think it's based on the type of the first parameter. 00:22:10.820 --> 00:22:18.560 So if you want to do multi-parameter ones, there is a third-party plugin called multiple dispatch. 00:22:18.780 --> 00:22:21.160 You can just pip install. 00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:23.540 And then it kind of works the same. 00:22:23.540 --> 00:22:25.740 Although I kind of like this one better, honestly. 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:27.500 The syntax is a little different. 00:22:27.500 --> 00:22:31.320 And it probably does single dispatch too, I'm guessing. 00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:33.000 Yeah, just one parameter. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.600 But in this one, yeah, similar sort of thing. 00:22:37.600 --> 00:22:40.360 It just kind of works on multiple parameters. 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:44.020 I'm digging the multiple dispatch style where you just say dispatch. 00:22:44.020 --> 00:22:45.860 This is arguments are list stir. 00:22:45.860 --> 00:22:49.920 You know, we're going to maybe get to where Mike is going at the end of the show. 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:57.460 But it would be even cooler if you could just say at dispatch and then put a type like a colon list, b colon stir. 00:22:57.460 --> 00:23:00.780 So I want to dispatch on types and stuff like that. 00:23:00.780 --> 00:23:07.220 And have the dispatch decorator look at the function that's passed in and look at the type parameters and then just do that. 00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:09.800 So you don't have to say the types more than once. 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.600 Anyway, we come back to that as well. 00:23:12.600 --> 00:23:13.000 Yeah. 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:17.400 So in a past life, I was a Java engineer. 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:22.740 So we call it dynamic dispatch in Java. 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:30.040 And actually, there's a lot of patterns, object-oriented patterns that kind of are derived from that feature. 00:23:30.040 --> 00:23:32.580 From, again, from the C++. 00:23:32.580 --> 00:23:34.240 Well, from the old days. 00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:42.740 And, yeah, no, to me, this actually, you know, when I saw it, I was like, okay, I could definitely use this for a lot of cases. 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:51.400 I know that, like, when you might want to build, when you have, like, a piece of code that has to work with a variety of different types, but they're very similar types, maybe. 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:54.960 And you want to do something with that family of types. 00:23:55.560 --> 00:24:01.880 You know, I think that that would be something I would, you know, I would think to look at, to solve with something like this. 00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:02.740 Yeah. 00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:03.400 Yeah. 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:05.000 I kind of had the same thought. 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:10.340 And I do not think I would make this any sort of normal workflow use case for my code. 00:24:10.520 --> 00:24:17.740 But there are times where you have some code that says, if, you know, argument is, the type of this is a list, do this thing. 00:24:17.740 --> 00:24:21.120 If it's not a list, then make an empty list, put it in, and then do this other thing. 00:24:21.120 --> 00:24:27.600 You know, like, if you're doing that type switching already, this dispatch thing might actually make it more clear, right? 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:28.880 It's not common to do it in Python. 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:33.320 But there are times you're like, I kind of want to be able to take a string or a date time and then just parse the string of it. 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:34.680 You know, those kinds of things. 00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:40.340 So as an API company, this is actually kind of interesting, fits into what we do as an API company. 00:24:40.340 --> 00:24:45.160 We have to, a lot of times, you know, we're not very, we're not overly strict on our input types. 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.180 We allow like truthy and falsy kind of types to come in for like Booleans. 00:24:49.180 --> 00:24:53.200 And I could see us using this for that, right? 00:24:53.200 --> 00:25:01.940 So that way, instead of using all the helper code we've already written for that, have it more along the lines of, okay, if it's this type of input, you know, then you can convert it this way. 00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:03.660 If it's this type of input, you can convert it that way. 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:09.080 And I think we could probably write some code to handle our inputs differently using this pattern. 00:25:09.080 --> 00:25:09.600 Yeah. 00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:10.020 Yeah. 00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:11.040 Very neat insight there. 00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:12.760 Brian, you blew up our chat with us. 00:25:12.760 --> 00:25:16.300 Well, you want to pull out some highlights? 00:25:16.300 --> 00:25:16.620 Yeah. 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.080 All right. 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:24.540 So John Sheehan says, function overloading was one of those things like switch statements that I missed when I first started Python, but then I found I rarely needed it. 00:25:24.540 --> 00:25:24.780 Yeah. 00:25:24.780 --> 00:25:26.180 I'm kind of with you on that. 00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:32.620 Like I said, there's a few cases for me that I'm like, where I'm doing a type check or is instance of that I think is the one time. 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.720 But that's, you know, a couple of times in a whole program. 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:35.340 What do you think, Brian? 00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:36.220 Yeah. 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.660 I definitely missed it at first. 00:25:38.660 --> 00:25:40.680 And now I just don't even really notice it. 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:40.940 Yeah. 00:25:42.820 --> 00:25:46.080 Then you've got, you're going to get it says Luciano Romano. 00:25:46.080 --> 00:25:48.860 Romano also explains this in Fluent Python. 00:25:48.860 --> 00:25:51.880 I just read the pre-version of the second edition. 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:53.440 Getting some polish. 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:53.640 Yeah. 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:54.020 Very nice. 00:25:54.020 --> 00:25:55.040 That's a really good book. 00:25:55.040 --> 00:25:56.140 Fluent Python as well. 00:25:56.140 --> 00:25:59.420 Came out there says, that's the kind of thing I was thinking of. 00:25:59.420 --> 00:25:59.780 Yeah. 00:26:00.380 --> 00:26:01.240 Oh, sorry. 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:02.160 That's a different comment. 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:02.960 We'll come back to that in a minute. 00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.180 And then Sam Morley. 00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:08.260 I don't tend to find this kind of dispatching that useful. 00:26:08.260 --> 00:26:13.480 I generally just write a master function that takes star args, star kwrgs and dispatch to other functions. 00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:13.920 Yeah. 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:14.400 Yep. 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.920 But if you're switching on his instance, it could be, it could be a time. 00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:18.380 Yeah. 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:20.580 And then stepping back one quick topic. 00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:26.760 Kim Vanewick says, would be handy if some pip tooling could automatically check the PyPA advisory before downloading a package. 00:26:26.760 --> 00:26:27.720 That would be slick. 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:28.120 Yeah. 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:32.800 I just did a typo squatting and PyPI security episode over on Talk Python. 00:26:32.800 --> 00:26:36.680 And we had a lot of interesting ideas, like almost like a, have I been pwned? 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:38.160 Like, remember what I installed? 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:40.120 And if you ever see, I installed something out of vulnerability. 00:26:40.120 --> 00:26:41.100 Quick, shoot me a note. 00:26:41.100 --> 00:26:41.680 Let me know. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.620 Hey, a few weeks ago, you installed this thing. 00:26:43.820 --> 00:26:45.100 You might want to get rid of it now. 00:26:45.100 --> 00:26:45.880 Stuff like that. 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.160 But I think this is another interesting thing along those lines. 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.640 All right. 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:53.020 Like kind of cache that data and then just say, you know, I know you want to install it. 00:26:53.020 --> 00:26:56.540 And maybe this is what they're talking about with integrating that into pypi.org itself. 00:26:56.540 --> 00:26:57.080 Who knows? 00:26:57.080 --> 00:26:57.780 Very cool. 00:26:57.780 --> 00:26:59.660 All right, Mike, you got the last one. 00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:00.220 Yeah. 00:27:00.220 --> 00:27:05.640 So, AIO SQL is a, as it says, simple SQL in Python. 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:13.240 it's a SQL templating framework or, or library, that really you, what you do is you give it some 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:17.720 SQL files with some, it has some conventions around how you define queries. 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.140 And then the essentially gives you a query mapping, that you can then use in your code. 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:27.060 and this is kind of a, it's a minimalistic way of, of access to your, of accessing your database. 00:27:27.580 --> 00:27:32.660 it is, you know, with the A in front of it, it's, it's, natively asynchronous. 00:27:32.660 --> 00:27:35.700 it works really well with asyncpg. 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.040 I know that, we use, Postgres. 00:27:38.040 --> 00:27:43.520 So, you know, that, that was a good, that was a highlight for us to, to look at it. 00:27:43.780 --> 00:27:47.040 and, you know, I think we all have worked with ORMs. 00:27:47.040 --> 00:27:50.260 you know, I've come back and forth on ORMs over the years. 00:27:50.260 --> 00:27:56.340 you know, I think this is a nice fit for when you have, when you, when you don't have to do, 00:27:56.340 --> 00:28:00.020 uh, a lot of touch, a lot of different tables or do a lot of joins. 00:28:00.260 --> 00:28:06.220 Maybe you're, have a small microservice that just needs to do a couple, you know, reads and writes updates. 00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:12.320 and, and also I think this really helps because ORMs, especially when you're dealing at scale, 00:28:12.320 --> 00:28:16.160 you have to really know the ORM at a very deep level to understand what it's doing. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:20.420 And this kind of exposes all of, you know, it really just brings you down to the SQL level. 00:28:20.420 --> 00:28:24.940 So now, you know, exactly what you're doing and you, you can be a little bit more direct on what you want to, 00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:26.460 what you want to do with your data. 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:26.980 Yeah. 00:28:26.980 --> 00:28:27.220 Yeah. 00:28:27.220 --> 00:28:32.740 Sometimes you're like, well, I want to do the join and then the filter, not the filter, then the, I don't know. 00:28:32.740 --> 00:28:37.780 Like if you're really good at SQL, you can, you can put these little tricks and like, oh, it's actually 00:28:37.780 --> 00:28:40.100 likes it better if we do it this way rather than that way. 00:28:40.100 --> 00:28:42.120 And, oh, I'm probably not going to let you do that. 00:28:42.120 --> 00:28:46.500 So let me just describe this to people out there because it's breaking some paradigms for me. 00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:51.880 So this is a library that allows you to write queries against a database, 00:28:51.880 --> 00:28:57.660 but you do it almost with data access, data access layer style of things. 00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:01.760 So you would, you don't do a quote, select star from such and such. 00:29:01.760 --> 00:29:06.820 You, you would say like query dot get all greetings or get user by username. 00:29:06.820 --> 00:29:12.280 And you pass a like username equals such and such in an asynchronous way, which is pretty interesting. 00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:18.700 But the way that that has meaning is you create a dot SQL file that has like a doc string like thing. 00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:24.340 And you write a bunch of SQL, almost like stored procedures, but just in a text file, this thing parses it. 00:29:24.340 --> 00:29:27.700 And then it becomes like a smart query data access layer. 00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:28.300 Correct. 00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:28.740 Yeah. 00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:33.520 So it basically builds out other data access layer or data access object kind of for you, 00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:37.920 where you can basically map in these, these, these queries. 00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:39.420 And it's not just queries. 00:29:39.420 --> 00:29:42.540 You can do mutations and you can do, you can do a DDL and all of that. 00:29:42.540 --> 00:29:43.080 So, yeah. 00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:44.200 Yeah. 00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:44.880 It gives you a lot. 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:45.880 Create tables or whatever. 00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:46.420 Yeah. 00:29:46.420 --> 00:29:47.140 It could be a function you call. 00:29:47.140 --> 00:29:47.340 Yeah. 00:29:47.340 --> 00:29:48.000 Absolutely. 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:48.380 So. 00:29:48.380 --> 00:29:49.360 Brian, what do you think? 00:29:49.360 --> 00:29:50.780 Do you touch SQL much these days? 00:29:50.780 --> 00:29:53.160 I'm touching it more and more. 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:55.240 And I love this actually. 00:29:56.080 --> 00:29:59.320 Cause I always assume if there's a bug, it's probably in my SQL statement. 00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:01.300 But this looks pretty cool. 00:30:01.300 --> 00:30:06.720 So get, get your, get your selects and stuff figured out what kind of queries you want to do ahead of time. 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:09.180 And, and then use them in your code. 00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.060 This is cool. 00:30:10.060 --> 00:30:10.540 Yeah. 00:30:10.540 --> 00:30:10.980 Yeah. 00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:15.900 I mean, I'm very repelled by writing raw SQL statements in my code. 00:30:15.900 --> 00:30:18.240 Very much like Kim Van Wijk. 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:23.400 Others like this looks exactly what I like, like not writing SQL, but not using an ORM. 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.420 No, it's no secret to the world out there that I'm a MongoDB fan. 00:30:26.420 --> 00:30:31.300 So I, I'm not, I don't have like direct use for this a lot, but I do find this super valuable, 00:30:31.300 --> 00:30:39.880 especially if people on the team are really good at SQL and they're like, oh, this, this library is inhibiting me from like using my superpower on the database. 00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:40.600 Right, Mike? 00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:40.940 Exactly. 00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:41.960 Yeah, that's exactly. 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:51.120 And I was just about to say that, you know, if, if you have a DBA or you have someone who is, you know, basically they are focused or concentrated on the database and, and optimizing those queries. 00:30:51.120 --> 00:30:59.320 You know, I think what, what this allows you to do, then you can go define your queries and you can write them yourself, how they are as developer. 00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:05.020 And then maybe you can take that to your, to the experts and have him refine them for you without actually changing the abstraction. 00:31:05.020 --> 00:31:05.520 Right. 00:31:05.520 --> 00:31:07.100 Like without, you still get that. 00:31:07.100 --> 00:31:07.500 Yeah. 00:31:07.500 --> 00:31:07.960 Yeah. 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:12.580 There's also times where like, let's say I've got a internal tool that I'm going to put together and it needs a database. 00:31:12.580 --> 00:31:18.520 And it's really not that big of a deal to tell like your, your IT department and your supervisor and stuff. 00:31:18.520 --> 00:31:23.420 They're going to throw up a MySQL database and, or something and, and interact with it or Postgres. 00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:26.820 But to say, hey, I'm going to throw Mongo in there. 00:31:26.820 --> 00:31:31.000 That might bring up a, just a, just a discussion that you're just not ready to have. 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:31.500 So. 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:32.960 Yeah, for sure. 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.920 Let me suggest a pairing, you know, kind of like as you pair wines, a pairing with this library. 00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:41.880 I think Pydantic might go fantastic with this, right? 00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:53.880 So you get these results back as tuples and then you could just, you know, star args that into your Pydantic models and you get your validation and all sorts of like stuff. 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.580 And then you get a list of Pydantic, like you're one list comprehension away from something beautiful here. 00:31:58.580 --> 00:31:58.940 Yeah. 00:31:58.940 --> 00:32:00.440 This is, that's exactly what we're doing. 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:08.860 You know, we're using, you know, I think right now we're building out a new stack and it's basically, it's, it's, it's FastAPI, Pydantic, you know, AIO SQL. 00:32:08.860 --> 00:32:09.800 Oh, interesting. 00:32:09.800 --> 00:32:11.180 And you're finding it works well. 00:32:11.180 --> 00:32:12.360 Oh, it's, yeah. 00:32:12.360 --> 00:32:13.540 And it's very performant. 00:32:13.540 --> 00:32:15.880 So it's, you know, because it's asynchronous, right? 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:18.400 We're using asyncpg all the way down to the database too. 00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:20.740 So it's pretty much asynchronous from end to end. 00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:21.620 Fantastic. 00:32:21.620 --> 00:32:23.180 This is a really good recommendation. 00:32:23.180 --> 00:32:23.800 Yeah. 00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:24.840 You'd like it too, right, Brian? 00:32:24.840 --> 00:32:25.320 It's pretty sweet. 00:32:25.320 --> 00:32:26.100 Yeah, this is great. 00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:27.420 Yeah, I do. 00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:34.100 I really like the separation of concerns of the SQL statements and the Python code, but the flexibility of having both. 00:32:34.100 --> 00:32:34.700 It's pretty cool. 00:32:34.700 --> 00:32:35.220 Awesome. 00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:36.340 Brian, is that it for us? 00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.300 Yeah. 00:32:37.300 --> 00:32:40.820 Anybody have any other topics they want to bring up? 00:32:41.140 --> 00:32:42.380 Oh, you know, I do. 00:32:42.380 --> 00:32:44.020 Kind of, kind of crazy. 00:32:44.020 --> 00:32:46.820 So it's not quite an extra, extra, extra, extra here all about it. 00:32:46.860 --> 00:32:49.980 But a couple of things sent in from some listeners. 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:52.880 So let me make sure I credit these. 00:32:52.880 --> 00:33:04.500 So Daniel Mulkey sent this one in and said there is now, has been for a little while from Science Direct, there's a journal for academics called SoftwareX. 00:33:04.500 --> 00:33:06.820 And this library is pretty cool. 00:33:06.820 --> 00:33:11.100 So it aims to acknowledge the impact of software in today's research. 00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:16.200 So if you're in academics, one of the big challenges is that whole publish or perish sort of thing. 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:22.280 And it would be great to take this cool library and make it a thing that's out on PyPI or Conda that people can use. 00:33:22.280 --> 00:33:24.380 Oh, but that's going to take a week and a half. 00:33:24.380 --> 00:33:30.160 And you really only get credit for your citations in articles, not in code, right? 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.480 So this kind of addresses that to try to give people a place to publish their projects in a meaningful way. 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:44.920 And I just want to point out that there's a special issue on the software that contributed to the LIGO experiment, the gravitational wave discovery, which I'm pretty sure got the Nobel Prize. 00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:46.360 I don't totally remember. 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:54.160 But if you just start poking around here, you know, you might find the word Python periodically in this thing here. 00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:57.040 So over this one, we got some Python. 00:33:57.040 --> 00:34:00.000 I'm just randomly clicking articles and they're all coming up Python. 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.800 So I think that that's pretty sweet. 00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:06.640 If people are in science and they do this computational side of things, check this out. 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:07.020 Very cool. 00:34:07.020 --> 00:34:08.380 Yeah, that's number one. 00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:11.140 Number two, HiCon has been finished for a little while. 00:34:11.140 --> 00:34:17.220 And we were able to go through some like meeting platform type thing where we could watch the replays. 00:34:17.220 --> 00:34:20.740 But it's a little bit wonky in the way that the playback worked. 00:34:20.740 --> 00:34:24.220 Like I had to do some weird stuff to actually get logged back in after a while. 00:34:24.220 --> 00:34:27.220 Anyway, it was fine for live stuff, but it was weird for playback. 00:34:27.220 --> 00:34:28.960 YouTube is pretty awesome for playback. 00:34:29.160 --> 00:34:35.980 And here's the I put in the show notes, the playlist for all of HiCon 2021 US. 00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:36.860 So that's pretty cool. 00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:38.060 I don't know how many videos are in here. 00:34:38.060 --> 00:34:39.200 It looks like 86 videos. 00:34:39.200 --> 00:34:42.240 So if you want to catch up on the HiCon talks, there's a really good way. 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:42.800 Nice. 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.980 It looks like Juergen had a lightning talk there. 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:47.840 Yeah. 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:48.260 It's cool. 00:34:48.260 --> 00:34:48.680 Yeah. 00:34:48.680 --> 00:34:49.000 Very cool. 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:49.580 Well done. 00:34:49.580 --> 00:34:54.440 And also want to make sure I get the credit for this one right. 00:34:54.440 --> 00:35:00.880 Madison Swain Bowden, who we both met, I believe, at PyCascades, shared this with us. 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:12.260 That AICS, ImageIO, which is used all over biological imaging and microscopy and that kind of stuff from the Allen Institute. 00:35:12.260 --> 00:35:13.780 Allen Brain Institute, I'm guessing. 00:35:15.080 --> 00:35:15.940 It was just released. 00:35:15.940 --> 00:35:21.320 So if you're doing anything with graphics and pictures and file formats and stuff for that, check that out. 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.240 And yeah, that's it for me. 00:35:23.240 --> 00:35:24.880 I think, Mike, you got one as well, right? 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:25.200 Elise? 00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:26.560 Yeah. 00:35:26.560 --> 00:35:26.720 Yeah. 00:35:26.720 --> 00:35:34.960 So yeah, PEP563 was, I think it's a postponed evaluation of annotations. 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:43.640 And basically, there was some, as I think I mentioned before, I'm a big fan of FastAPI and Pydantic. 00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:53.560 And there was some worry a couple months ago that this change would effectively break these projects in 3.10 if it was introduced. 00:35:53.560 --> 00:36:08.960 And so I just wanted to give a shout out to the community for jumping on this and just being really open-minded about this and basically postponing this a little further so that better decisions can be made on how to navigate this change. 00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:19.020 So I don't want to go too deep into it, but I read some of the threads on this and it was just really positive exchange within the community. 00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:20.360 And I think it turned out really well. 00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:23.200 There was like a unanimous decision, I believe, to postpone it. 00:36:23.200 --> 00:36:27.120 And it saved these projects from having to, well, basically. 00:36:27.120 --> 00:36:28.340 At a minimum scramble. 00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:28.960 Yeah. 00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.240 Worst case, not work. 00:36:31.240 --> 00:36:31.740 Yeah. 00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:32.260 Yeah. 00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:33.680 Let me see if I can give the elevator pitch. 00:36:33.680 --> 00:36:37.640 There was a proposal in Python 3.10, I guess, 5.3.8. 00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:38.500 I know, sorry. 00:36:38.500 --> 00:36:40.240 5.6.3. 00:36:40.240 --> 00:36:41.620 I don't know where that came from. 00:36:41.620 --> 00:36:42.260 5.6.3. 00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:43.020 PEP563. 00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:47.900 There was a possibility where there's an attempt to simplify and speed up type annotations. 00:36:47.900 --> 00:36:53.260 And by, because right now, if you want to do a type annotation, if I'm going to say I've created a Pydantic model, it's called user. 00:36:53.260 --> 00:36:54.620 And I'm going to say this thing returns a user. 00:36:54.620 --> 00:36:56.560 I have to import user at the top. 00:36:56.560 --> 00:37:03.600 And it was like, well, you're not going to get those evaluated or really dealt with unless you're doing type annotation analysis. 00:37:03.860 --> 00:37:06.580 So we're going to treat those as strings, basically. 00:37:06.580 --> 00:37:07.120 Yeah. 00:37:07.120 --> 00:37:07.640 Right. 00:37:07.640 --> 00:37:18.020 And things like FastAPI and Pydantic and others were going, they would actually get the type information, standard Python style, and then use that to modify behavior. 00:37:18.020 --> 00:37:18.600 Right. 00:37:18.600 --> 00:37:20.600 Like to do, oh, it says it's a list of ends. 00:37:20.600 --> 00:37:23.560 So we're going to convert from this list of those, or maybe a list of user. 00:37:23.560 --> 00:37:26.220 We're going to convert these JSON things to users. 00:37:26.220 --> 00:37:28.660 But with this change, it would have said, well, it's a string. 00:37:28.660 --> 00:37:29.880 And what does user mean? 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:30.240 Right. 00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:33.580 If you don't know the actual type where it's coming from, there could be multiple users. 00:37:33.580 --> 00:37:34.420 It could be a user. 00:37:34.420 --> 00:37:35.920 It couldn't track down. 00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:36.940 Has it been imported yet? 00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:38.880 All sorts of weirdness around it. 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:48.380 So the runtime behavior of these type annotated things like Typer, Pydantic, FastAPI, we're not sure how they were going to keep working with this being adopted. 00:37:48.380 --> 00:37:51.060 And it sounds like it's postponed at least until 3.11. 00:37:51.060 --> 00:37:51.540 Yeah. 00:37:51.540 --> 00:37:52.020 Exactly. 00:37:52.020 --> 00:37:52.940 Yeah. 00:37:52.940 --> 00:37:53.720 Thanks for bringing this up. 00:37:53.720 --> 00:37:54.180 That's a good one. 00:37:54.180 --> 00:37:54.500 Yeah. 00:37:54.500 --> 00:37:55.160 All right. 00:37:55.160 --> 00:37:57.200 Well, kind of end of the show. 00:37:57.200 --> 00:37:58.320 Do we have any jokes? 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.680 I got something for you. 00:38:00.680 --> 00:38:02.440 I'll tell you. 00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:03.300 You're loving of it. 00:38:03.300 --> 00:38:06.600 So this is from Zach, RMRF on Twitter. 00:38:06.600 --> 00:38:10.840 It says, did you hear about the four Pythonistas that robbed a bank? 00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:11.940 Three got caught. 00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:15.820 And when questioned, they all stated that the fourth would never be caught. 00:38:15.820 --> 00:38:20.160 Couldn't be caught because he knew RegEx and was something of an escape artist. 00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:23.900 That's funny. 00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:24.380 Yeah. 00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:25.000 I think that's pretty good. 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:25.920 Well done, Zach. 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:26.700 Thanks for sending that in. 00:38:26.700 --> 00:38:28.040 Brian, you got anything as well? 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:28.700 Yeah. 00:38:28.700 --> 00:38:30.340 Let me pull it up. 00:38:30.340 --> 00:38:41.120 So Rich, not Rich, Will McGugan asked about Rich and said, hey, if I wrote a book about 00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:44.560 Rich, how much money would you pay for it? 00:38:44.560 --> 00:38:46.260 But also what should be in the book? 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:50.920 Of course, I said it should cover how fast it is to install it. 00:38:51.040 --> 00:38:52.900 Kind of a get rich quick guide. 00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:58.440 Love it. 00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.140 Love it. 00:38:59.140 --> 00:39:01.260 And I believe the response was something like, get out. 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:01.960 Get out. 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:02.300 Yeah. 00:39:02.300 --> 00:39:03.500 Definitely. 00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:04.240 Oh, nice. 00:39:04.240 --> 00:39:06.340 Will's getting a lot of coverage this week. 00:39:06.340 --> 00:39:06.860 That's beautiful. 00:39:06.860 --> 00:39:07.760 He's doing good work. 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:08.760 All right. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:09.380 Speed of coverage. 00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:09.640 Yeah. 00:39:09.640 --> 00:39:10.420 Thanks for being here, Mike. 00:39:10.420 --> 00:39:11.600 Well, thank you guys for having me. 00:39:11.600 --> 00:39:12.200 This was really fun. 00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:12.700 Yeah. 00:39:12.700 --> 00:39:13.300 Thank you. 00:39:13.300 --> 00:39:15.780 Thanks for everybody for joining on the live stream as well. 00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.280 Wow. 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:18.240 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:39:18.240 --> 00:39:20.800 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:23.680 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:39:23.680 --> 00:39:27.040 And get the full show notes at Pythonbytes.fm. 00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:31.360 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit Pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:39:31.500 --> 00:39:34.060 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:39:34.060 --> 00:39:37.240 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. 00:39:37.240 --> 00:39:40.740 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.