WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:09.040 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes. It's episode 24 and we are going to deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:09.040 --> 00:00:15.000 This episode is recorded on May 2nd, 2017 and is brought to you by Rollbar. 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:16.740 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:16.740 --> 00:00:17.640 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:22.180 And we're here to bring you a bunch of Python news, but this time it's a little different. 00:00:22.180 --> 00:00:29.880 Normally we're broadcasting from two secret locations in Portland, Oregon, but this time, Brian, you're dialing from slightly farther away. 00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:33.360 Yeah, I'm just south, what, southeast of Munich today. 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:38.700 Right on. Well, welcome to Europe. Let's start with learning Python out of Munich. 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:47.740 Yeah, so this is one of the, I think a listener of the show contacted us, said he wrote a learning Python series, 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:52.180 but he wrote it for a group called Robotics and Beyond. 00:00:52.180 --> 00:00:56.400 And it's a STEM educational space, which really looks cool. 00:00:57.060 --> 00:01:04.700 But he's, I think it looks like a nice tutorial and he's publishing it on Dan Bader's site, dbader.org. 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:11.060 And the first in the series is, let's program with Python statements, variables, and loops. 00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:18.800 And I think he's coming at it from a space of, if you, yeah, just really getting started, haven't done much. 00:01:18.800 --> 00:01:24.700 And I like, he's even talking about, goes through, even what is programming. 00:01:24.700 --> 00:01:27.840 He's assuming people haven't done programming before. 00:01:27.980 --> 00:01:33.200 So talking about how it's telling people how to, how you're telling the computer how to do steps. 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:39.960 And, and, and, you know, it's, it's hard for me to put my head back in the space of new to programming. 00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:47.900 But I think this is, it looks like a, something that might be good for, I don't know what age group, but it'd be good. 00:01:48.160 --> 00:01:52.080 Yeah. Well, we're going to talk about a lot of different age groups, but way to go, Doug. 00:01:52.080 --> 00:01:52.740 That's awesome. 00:01:52.740 --> 00:01:56.220 It's really hard to, you know, get rid of the curse of knowledge, right? 00:01:56.220 --> 00:02:00.900 Once you've learned a thing, it's really hard to see it with fresh eyes and understand the challenges and stuff. 00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:02.760 So that's really cool. 00:02:02.940 --> 00:02:07.060 And don't you wish something like robotics and beyond existed when you were a kid? 00:02:07.060 --> 00:02:08.100 Yeah, I do. 00:02:08.100 --> 00:02:17.080 And one of the things that I like also about having lots of different people tackle the new to programming space is that everybody learns differently. 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:20.200 So you might look at one series and go, man, I just don't get it. 00:02:20.200 --> 00:02:23.100 And then look at somebody else's and it just clicks like this. 00:02:23.100 --> 00:02:25.160 This one uses turtle graphics and stuff. 00:02:25.160 --> 00:02:30.540 I haven't seen people use turtle graphics very much recently, but so that's kind of fun. 00:02:30.540 --> 00:02:31.000 Oh yeah. 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:31.580 Very cool. 00:02:31.580 --> 00:02:32.780 Nice. 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:33.440 All right. 00:02:33.440 --> 00:02:34.000 That's a great one. 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:34.800 So check that out. 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.900 If people ask you for how to get started programming, right? 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:38.560 Maybe kids. 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:39.860 There's a lot of good options. 00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:40.700 Here's one more. 00:02:40.700 --> 00:02:49.220 So speaking of learning to program, I picked one that is an actual academic paper, but I felt it was pretty interesting. 00:02:49.220 --> 00:02:50.460 This is done by Philip Guau. 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:52.240 I've had him on Talk Python a few times. 00:02:52.240 --> 00:03:01.880 In this one, he's talking about helping older adults learn to become programmers or become more proficient in programming. 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:03.680 Like what you were just talking about. 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.980 There's a lot of, hey, you're a young kid. 00:03:07.980 --> 00:03:14.000 You want to get started with robots and programming and here's how you do it and we'll get you going to launch your career and stuff. 00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:26.260 But Philip said like so many of these resources are focused on the young teenage to early 20s group starting their career. 00:03:26.260 --> 00:03:35.580 But, you know, how much do we really know about people who are 60 to 85 years old who are just learning to program? 00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:41.560 So he actually wrote a proper academic paper and did a bunch of research on those guys. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:42.200 Wow. 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:43.220 I think that's cool. 00:03:43.220 --> 00:03:44.120 It is really cool. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:52.020 The age group, I guess I wouldn't expect people from in the like, I guess you've listed 60 to 85. 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:53.880 Was that the age group of the respondents? 00:03:53.880 --> 00:03:55.580 That was the age group of the respondents. 00:03:55.720 --> 00:03:55.800 Yeah. 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:01.700 If you were outside of that age range, mostly younger, then you were sort of not included. 00:04:01.700 --> 00:04:02.000 Right. 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:07.320 Like it was really focused on people who were basically either about to retire or who were retired. 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.120 And it looked at a couple of different aspects. 00:04:10.120 --> 00:04:13.060 Like why are they interested in learning a program? 00:04:13.060 --> 00:04:17.440 What challenges do they have that they share with everyone who's learning a program? 00:04:17.440 --> 00:04:18.540 Like what's a variable? 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:19.880 Ah, what's a pointer, right? 00:04:19.880 --> 00:04:20.880 Like everybody suffers that. 00:04:20.880 --> 00:04:24.620 But there's also specific challenges for that age group. 00:04:24.620 --> 00:04:29.620 And then also, you know, just what are they using to learn? 00:04:29.620 --> 00:04:34.200 And some of the lessons on how maybe we can make the whole environment better for those guys as well. 00:04:34.200 --> 00:04:35.140 I think that's great. 00:04:35.140 --> 00:04:35.780 Yeah, I do too. 00:04:35.780 --> 00:04:42.560 So I think it's interesting to look at what some of the reasons why people in this age group were learning to program. 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:47.140 Some of them just said like, look, I'm now retiring and I've always wanted to learn to program. 00:04:47.140 --> 00:04:48.940 And maybe I did something technical. 00:04:48.940 --> 00:04:52.520 Like maybe I was a scientist, but I never really got around to really learning to programming. 00:04:52.520 --> 00:04:55.000 So that might be one reason. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:56.680 Another was connecting with grandchildren. 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:03.180 So a lot of these folks have children who are maybe taking this robotics and beyond type course. 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:05.560 And they're like, hey, I would love to do that with my grandchild. 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:07.640 But let me, I got to learn Python myself, right? 00:05:07.640 --> 00:05:14.000 Another big opportunity here is there's a pretty big gap between people can do programming and people are teaching kids. 00:05:14.440 --> 00:05:25.000 And so people in this age group also have a lot of time if they're retired to maybe donate, you know, an hour or two a week at some place mentoring or something like that. 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:34.700 So maybe they could fill in this, like sort of help teachers at high schools and middle schools with actually teaching programming and not just like the coding class teaches HTML, right? 00:05:34.700 --> 00:05:35.600 Something like that. 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:40.320 As well as like just keeping mentally active and pursuing hobbies, right? 00:05:40.320 --> 00:05:45.300 Like their hobby is airplanes and they are going to create something that works with airplanes somehow. 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:52.820 Yeah, I think, and then I could see probably the maker space getting into that and people trying to program Raspberry Pis and stuff like that. 00:05:52.820 --> 00:05:53.440 Yeah, absolutely. 00:05:53.440 --> 00:05:53.980 Absolutely. 00:05:53.980 --> 00:05:59.540 There's a lot of cool stuff, a lot of cool times with like the micro Python type of stuff as well. 00:05:59.540 --> 00:06:02.380 So if you're interested in this, check this out. 00:06:02.380 --> 00:06:07.000 I'm also planning on doing a full proper Talk Python episode with Philip in a few weeks. 00:06:07.000 --> 00:06:09.800 So we'll catch up on that and go deeper on that show. 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:10.540 Okay, great. 00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:16.640 Hey, so next up, I've got something that I've been, we talked about, I can't even remember what episode. 00:06:16.640 --> 00:06:27.740 I was looking for a good way to have a local PyPI server just like so you can sort of not have to go out onto PyPI all the time. 00:06:28.400 --> 00:06:33.040 And especially on the plane trip when I was flying over here, I knew I wouldn't have an internet connection. 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:40.880 So I wanted to make sure I had a cache of all of the packages I needed for while I was programming on the plane. 00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:49.860 And I don't know when this crept in, but there's, pip has download now and I don't think it used to always have that. 00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:55.860 But you can just, and I've got the, I put just the few lines of code you need in our show notes. 00:06:56.040 --> 00:07:06.900 But it's just, you go to a directory you want and you type pip download and some package and it downloads that package and all of its dependencies and doesn't install it. 00:07:06.900 --> 00:07:09.700 It just stores the wheels in that directory. 00:07:09.700 --> 00:07:10.640 Yeah, that's super cool. 00:07:10.640 --> 00:07:15.340 So you can, you can basically create an offline version of PyPI. 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:17.460 And it just, it's really quick. 00:07:17.460 --> 00:07:20.400 You can even list multiple packages on the line. 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:28.300 I just, I knew like the 10 or 12 that I needed and didn't know what their dependencies were and just filled up a directory in like 10 minutes or less. 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.140 And then I was ready to go. 00:07:30.140 --> 00:07:40.020 And then you just have to use the, when you're doing the install, you do the --no index and --find links and point it to your directory. 00:07:40.500 --> 00:07:42.600 And then the rest is the same. 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.880 You just give it a package. 00:07:43.880 --> 00:07:45.960 And this includes like version numbers. 00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:48.900 So you can, you can have multiple versions in there as well. 00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:51.880 So anyway, just wanted to share that with everybody. 00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:52.320 Nice. 00:07:52.320 --> 00:07:59.680 Do you know if I can, can I give it like a requirements TXT and say, download that, you know, download the results that I suspect you can, right? 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:04.280 Probably pip download -r requirements, you know, dot TXT, I bet. 00:08:04.280 --> 00:08:05.060 Probably. 00:08:05.060 --> 00:08:07.900 I don't usually work with requirements files, so. 00:08:07.900 --> 00:08:08.200 Nice. 00:08:08.200 --> 00:08:08.460 Okay. 00:08:08.460 --> 00:08:09.280 This is a cool thing. 00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:18.760 So if you maybe were going to be stuck on an airplane and trains and other places for like 18 hours straight, you might want to take some packages with you, right? 00:08:18.760 --> 00:08:20.100 Yes. 00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:20.680 That's awesome. 00:08:20.680 --> 00:08:21.000 Okay. 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.320 So that's a really, really cool tip there. 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:33.060 I know there's the, like the dev pie and the actual local proper pipe AI servers that you can set up and just point at the URL, but I didn't know about this, this local download option. 00:08:33.060 --> 00:08:33.680 So this is great. 00:08:33.680 --> 00:08:41.700 And that the, all those other little pipe AI servers, I know that the setup says that they're really easy, but I haven't been able to get it to work for me. 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:45.740 So I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but anyway, so this is easy. 00:08:45.740 --> 00:08:46.080 Yeah. 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:49.820 This definitely like everybody has a directory, so they can do it. 00:08:49.820 --> 00:08:52.620 You don't have to have the right infrastructure around it. 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:52.920 That's cool. 00:08:52.920 --> 00:08:53.720 All right. 00:08:53.720 --> 00:09:00.680 Before we get onto the next item, which is about adding features to the Python language itself, I want to just say thanks to Rollbar. 00:09:00.680 --> 00:09:02.740 You guys have heard me talk about Rollbar a lot. 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:06.180 You know that I use Rollbar on my websites and really, really like Rollbar. 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:20.320 Basically, all you have to do is pip install Rollbar, maybe include a line or two in the config or setup for your Python web app, and it's tracking all these errors and sending you reports and notifications with lots of details anytime it happens. 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.680 So these guys are going to have a booth at PyCon. 00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:25.100 They're going to be just like us, Brian. 00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:26.720 We're all going to have booths at PyCon. 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:27.880 Yeah. 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:30.300 I'm going to have to go get a Rollbar sticker for them. 00:09:30.300 --> 00:09:30.800 Yeah. 00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:33.200 Definitely get a Rollbar sticker, maybe a Rollbar shirt. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:41.320 I don't know what kind of swag they're bringing to the show, but they want to make sure that you know there's a booth for Rollbar at PyCon. 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.280 And so drop by and they'll give you a demo and give you some kind of swag to go with it. 00:09:45.280 --> 00:09:45.580 Awesome. 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:46.060 Awesome. 00:09:46.060 --> 00:09:46.480 Yeah. 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:47.280 So just check them out. 00:09:47.280 --> 00:09:49.320 Rollbar.com slash Python bytes. 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:54.200 Get the bootstrap plan for free, which is 100,000 events and 180 days of retention. 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.220 And hopefully you don't use up that many errors. 00:09:57.220 --> 00:09:58.440 But if you do, they got you covered. 00:09:58.440 --> 00:09:59.600 All right. 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:05.820 So you know what would be cool is if we could have increment and decrement operators in Python. 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:10.300 We can do plus equals one, but think of all the characters we're wasting there. 00:10:10.300 --> 00:10:11.860 What if we could just do plus plus? 00:10:11.860 --> 00:10:12.440 Yeah. 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.380 Do you know why Python doesn't have increment and decrement operators? 00:10:15.380 --> 00:10:17.140 I have a theory, but I don't actually know. 00:10:17.140 --> 00:10:18.120 I don't know why. 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:18.680 Do you? 00:10:18.680 --> 00:10:21.000 Certainly the language was created after. 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:24.080 No, I mean, it was created after C and C++, right? 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.240 So it's not like it wasn't known as a possibility. 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:30.940 I suspect it was to keep it more explicit, right? 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:36.680 You know, one of the challenges of plus plus and minus minus and those types of things is 00:10:36.680 --> 00:10:41.500 a lot of languages that support them support like two variations, like plus plus variable 00:10:41.500 --> 00:10:42.720 and variable plus plus. 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:47.360 And it's always like, okay, well, what that increments it and then returns the incremented 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.080 value versus returns original value and then increment is just like, it's kind of confusing. 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.500 Like why is like increment confusing? 00:10:53.780 --> 00:10:57.280 And so I suspect Coeta is just like, all right, just simple. 00:10:57.280 --> 00:11:02.720 It's also like, like in C++, it matters which side of the assignment operator it's on to. 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:05.000 If it's an L value and R value. 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.880 So yes, all those things. 00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:14.660 And so it doesn't have one, but friend of the show, Anthony Shaw said, let's see what it would 00:11:14.660 --> 00:11:16.420 be like if we tried to add one. 00:11:16.420 --> 00:11:21.100 And I think this is cool because it actually, his article on Medium takes you through step 00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:25.620 by step what it is you need to do to add a new feature to the Python language. 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:29.960 So basically he writes an article that adds plus plus and minus minus to CPython. 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:34.060 I like the, where he's going with it and also teaching people how to do this. 00:11:34.060 --> 00:11:35.000 It's kind of neat. 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:35.220 Yeah. 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:39.540 It certainly takes some of the mystery of like, well, how would you even start out of 00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:39.680 this? 00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:42.460 So he says, look, there's basically five or six levels. 00:11:42.460 --> 00:11:47.360 So you're going to start by doing a PEP to get agreement on what the language feature is 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:47.800 going to be. 00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:53.060 Then there's a grammar file that describes what the statements in Python are. 00:11:53.300 --> 00:11:59.080 You don't want to just cram it into CPython, the execution engine, because things like 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:03.600 PyPy and other implementations, you want those to stay consistent. 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:05.440 So there's this grammar file they all share. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.140 It talks about how to add them. 00:12:07.140 --> 00:12:11.360 And it turns out it's like super easy to add these, these new things. 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.560 Then there's the Lexer that parses it. 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:16.340 Lexer that goes through and sorry, turns it to tokens. 00:12:16.340 --> 00:12:19.060 Then the parser takes the tokens to abstract syntax trees. 00:12:19.060 --> 00:12:22.840 And then there's a compiler actually compiles it to instructions. 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.760 So he goes through all the steps and shows you how it works. 00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:31.840 And even has his attempt to add this feature to Python itself out on GitHub, if you want 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:32.460 to check it out. 00:12:32.460 --> 00:12:35.900 So he's got a working version with plus plus. 00:12:35.900 --> 00:12:36.720 That's pretty cool. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:41.760 Maybe we could get him to add begin and end to blocks. 00:12:41.760 --> 00:12:44.140 Hopefully he's no. 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:45.880 And curly braces. 00:12:45.880 --> 00:12:47.020 We all love the curly braces. 00:12:47.020 --> 00:12:47.720 No, just kidding. 00:12:47.720 --> 00:12:49.380 Okay, so that's awesome. 00:12:49.380 --> 00:12:54.400 Another thing that you brought up that I like is colorful, right? 00:12:54.400 --> 00:13:00.740 So I think so many of the apps that we create in Python are sort of terminal level or CLI type 00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:01.060 apps. 00:13:01.060 --> 00:13:03.980 So people really could do more to make them pretty, right? 00:13:03.980 --> 00:13:04.500 Yeah. 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:07.160 So I've been working a lot with pytest lately. 00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:11.700 And one of the great benefits of it is the color in the terminal window. 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:16.800 And working with terminal colors isn't, this is often not very fun. 00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:22.980 But this colorful project is actually got a syntax that's pretty darn readable. 00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:29.100 And once you've figured out what colors and what syntax, what different parts of your interface, 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:31.120 your command line interface, you want different colors. 00:13:31.260 --> 00:13:36.840 I don't think you're going to really have to care, like really muck with it too much using colorful. 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:44.060 And it even has things like piping colors to strings and like different plus and and operators 00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:46.160 that make sense with colors. 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:48.720 And I like what they're going doing with this. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:49.580 Yeah, that's cool. 00:13:49.580 --> 00:13:50.820 I do as well. 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:53.640 And the couple of things that really stood out is nice to me. 00:13:53.640 --> 00:13:58.680 One is the syntax is pretty straightforward on how you use it. 00:13:58.680 --> 00:14:01.180 The fact that you can use hexadecimal. 00:14:01.180 --> 00:14:06.680 So you can just, you know, hash F-A-F-A-F-A for gray or whatever, right? 00:14:06.680 --> 00:14:11.680 You can take sort of web colors and plug them in, which is really cool. 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:14.780 And they even have themes, like you can set up general themes. 00:14:14.780 --> 00:14:16.160 You can use context managers. 00:14:16.160 --> 00:14:18.680 So in a width block, you can set a color, things like that. 00:14:18.680 --> 00:14:18.980 Yeah. 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:19.340 Okay. 00:14:19.340 --> 00:14:20.240 That's neat. 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:20.560 Yeah. 00:14:20.560 --> 00:14:20.980 Yeah. 00:14:20.980 --> 00:14:21.380 Pretty sweet. 00:14:21.380 --> 00:14:22.520 I might start using it. 00:14:22.520 --> 00:14:28.100 I've looked at Colorama and some of the other ones and they're fine, but it's like, I don't 00:14:28.100 --> 00:14:32.740 know, it's just painful to say like, okay, well, I'm going to take this like enumerated text 00:14:32.740 --> 00:14:35.720 value and concatenate it with my string to make it a color. 00:14:35.720 --> 00:14:37.740 And I think colorful is a little nicer. 00:14:37.740 --> 00:14:38.000 Yeah. 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:38.680 I wonder if it's built. 00:14:38.680 --> 00:14:39.920 I haven't actually tried it. 00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:41.700 I wonder if it's built on top of Colorama. 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:42.380 Yeah. 00:14:42.380 --> 00:14:43.180 We'll have to look inside. 00:14:43.180 --> 00:14:43.620 Anyway. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.400 Speaking of packages, everybody who works on making a Python package, they want to add 00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:51.240 a nice bit of bling, make it fancy looking, right? 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:51.680 Yeah. 00:14:51.680 --> 00:14:53.820 All the extra little blips and stuff. 00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:54.280 Yeah. 00:14:54.280 --> 00:15:02.760 So there's a lot of things that make a package look professional or not professional, but there's 00:15:02.760 --> 00:15:06.500 this article called five steps to add the bling factor to your Python package. 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:08.200 And I thought it was pretty cool. 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.220 I mean, it's certainly not exhaustive. 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:14.660 And it's not, I don't think it's overly prescriptive, but it does talk about a few things that you 00:15:14.660 --> 00:15:16.000 can do that are pretty sweet. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.840 So I'll just run through the five steps real quick. 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.360 So step one, you can host your documentation on read the docs. 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:22.680 That's nice, right? 00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:26.180 Proper documentation somewhere with search and all that kind of stuff. 00:15:26.180 --> 00:15:32.880 Set up continuous integration with Travis CI or maybe AppVeer or whatever, right? 00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:35.780 But if you're going to set it up, some kind of continuous integration. 00:15:35.780 --> 00:15:41.220 And if you're going to run unit tests, you probably want to know what your code coverage 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:41.460 is. 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:44.580 So you can show your code coverage with code cov. 00:15:44.580 --> 00:15:50.020 Obviously, if you're going to have a package, if it doesn't live on PyPI, it's almost not real, 00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:50.440 right? 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:56.520 Unless there's some weird requirement about like it really has to be set up in some bizarre 00:15:56.520 --> 00:15:59.760 way that it can't be installed there from there. 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.480 It really should be on PyPI, which is great. 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.140 So add it up there and it talks about how to do it. 00:16:04.140 --> 00:16:06.900 It's surprisingly easy to get your package onto PyPI. 00:16:06.900 --> 00:16:10.460 And finally, if you have all these things, you want to have badges, right? 00:16:10.460 --> 00:16:12.760 This thing supports these versions of Python. 00:16:12.760 --> 00:16:15.220 Its tests are currently passing or not passing. 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:18.060 It has this level of code coverage, all those things, right? 00:16:18.060 --> 00:16:18.520 Yeah. 00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:23.760 And one of the things that this highlights for that, I guess I always knew, but I don't think 00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:28.400 about it very much is all these different services for open source projects. 00:16:28.400 --> 00:16:29.000 They're free. 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:29.380 Yeah. 00:16:29.780 --> 00:16:30.380 Every one of those. 00:16:30.380 --> 00:16:30.560 Yeah. 00:16:30.560 --> 00:16:30.880 Yeah. 00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:34.900 But I mean, it's not free for them to run it, but that's cool that all that stuff's just 00:16:34.900 --> 00:16:36.500 there for open source projects. 00:16:36.500 --> 00:16:37.000 Yeah. 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:37.740 It's really great. 00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:40.020 Like, read the docs is free. 00:16:40.020 --> 00:16:42.660 They do have ads on there. 00:16:42.660 --> 00:16:44.700 I'm not sure how targeted the ads are. 00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:48.400 They're pretty relevant to Python developers, but I do think it's a challenge. 00:16:48.400 --> 00:16:52.940 I know the read the docs guys are doing interesting and creative things to fund it, but it's, 00:16:52.940 --> 00:16:56.400 you know, it's non-trivial to run it for free for the world. 00:16:56.400 --> 00:16:56.800 Yeah. 00:16:56.800 --> 00:16:57.960 How about Travis CI? 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:02.860 Well, they, I had talked with Josh Calderamis from Travis. 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:10.440 And since they started out as a, like, open source stuff to start with, and they were 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:16.280 doing it in their hobby time, and the commercial side is now how they're doing it full time, 00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:17.120 and they have jobs. 00:17:17.360 --> 00:17:23.280 And the reason why they maintain the free for open source is because they got their careers 00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:24.980 from open source and they want to give back. 00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:26.240 Oh, that's really cool. 00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:31.580 So if I had, like, a private GitHub repo, I'd have to pay to get CI on it, but if I have a 00:17:31.580 --> 00:17:32.660 public one, it's free? 00:17:32.660 --> 00:17:33.200 Something like that? 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:33.420 Yeah. 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:38.440 They have an enterprise Travis CI so that you, that you can use for closed repos or private, 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:39.800 not private repos. 00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:40.000 Yeah. 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:40.460 Private ones. 00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:40.740 Mm-hmm. 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:43.740 So what I thought was cool about this is none of those things are hard. 00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:47.840 None of those things are major, but they're all make it, it shows that you care about what 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:48.200 you're building. 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:49.680 So you're more likely to get contributors. 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.140 People are more likely to adopt your package, things like that. 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:56.200 Also nice to have all these together because I can imagine if I wanted to do any of these, 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.300 I'd probably spend an hour or so trying to figure out each little bit. 00:17:59.300 --> 00:18:00.140 Yeah. 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:01.980 There's little tips at each one, which is cool. 00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:02.220 Yeah. 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:02.560 All right. 00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:04.020 Well, that's our news for the week, Brian. 00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:07.220 Anything besides the fact that you're just tooling around Germany? 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:12.440 Well, I think they had, they were, I'm doing management training, so maybe I'll finally learn 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:14.860 how to become a manager after doing it for many years. 00:18:14.860 --> 00:18:21.820 But the, but I was working on the, working furiously on the book on the, on the plane trip over. 00:18:21.820 --> 00:18:28.420 And we're still on, still barely on target for a beta for PyCon. 00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:28.940 So. 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:30.980 I just looked, PyCon is two weeks away. 00:18:30.980 --> 00:18:32.360 I can't believe it. 00:18:32.360 --> 00:18:33.660 There's not very much time. 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:34.020 I know. 00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:35.920 Anyway, I still have to order stickers. 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:37.060 It's going to be so fun though. 00:18:37.060 --> 00:18:37.560 Yeah. 00:18:37.560 --> 00:18:38.040 Yeah. 00:18:38.040 --> 00:18:40.520 You still got time, but not a lot of time. 00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:41.600 Not a lot of time. 00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:43.320 It's going to be tons of fun. 00:18:43.320 --> 00:18:48.340 So I'm looking forward to, to meeting a bunch of the listeners there and hanging out with you 00:18:48.340 --> 00:18:49.200 and everyone else. 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:50.360 And how about you? 00:18:50.360 --> 00:18:51.100 Anything up with you? 00:18:51.320 --> 00:18:52.180 Not, not too much. 00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:56.940 Just thinking about PyCon makes me think I got to get a bunch of stuff ready for, for 00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:58.940 the conference or a booth and things like that. 00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:00.620 So yeah, it should be a lot of fun. 00:19:00.620 --> 00:19:01.080 Yeah. 00:19:01.080 --> 00:19:02.100 I can't wait. 00:19:02.100 --> 00:19:05.380 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:07.940 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:19:07.940 --> 00:19:10.820 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:19:10.820 --> 00:19:14.220 And get the full show notes at Pythonbytes.fm. 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:18.580 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit Pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:19:18.700 --> 00:19:21.300 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:19:21.300 --> 00:19:24.680 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.300 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.