WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.720 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:11.220 This is episode 297, recorded August 16, 2022, and I am Brian Okken. 00:00:11.220 --> 00:00:12.260 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:15.900 It's good to be back and be with you, Michael. 00:00:15.900 --> 00:00:19.640 Yeah, it's great to be back. Not in the usual location today. 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.660 You may hear some nature sound shmaiya and apologize if animals go crazy, 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:27.040 but there's construction, which is guaranteed to be a problem in my office. 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:29.040 So I'm sitting in the backyard. We'll see how it goes. 00:00:29.040 --> 00:00:36.600 Yeah, for people that are listening to the podcast, the live stream people get to see his lovely view from his backyard. 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:37.640 Some nice trees. 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.700 Yeah, big trees. It's all Oregon backyard here. 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:41.760 Nice. 00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:48.820 But also, I also want to say this episode is brought to you by IRL podcast from Mozilla. 00:00:48.820 --> 00:00:53.060 So we'll tell you more about that later, but thanks to Mozilla and the IRL podcast for supporting the show. 00:00:53.060 --> 00:00:53.700 Thank you. 00:00:53.700 --> 00:00:58.300 Let's talk about writing code by not writing code. 00:00:58.300 --> 00:00:59.380 Does that sound like a good idea? 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:01.120 Well, okay. 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:04.000 Not in the low code, no code sense. 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.340 There's actually some pretty cool tools in that space, but that's not what I'm talking about. 00:01:07.860 --> 00:01:20.760 Imagine, Brian, somebody says, we used to be a .NET shop and we have this huge database and all of our code to talk to it is in some other language or it's Ruby or it's Java or whatever. 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:21.440 It's not Python. 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:26.600 And you decide the best way to talk to this database is with some flavor of SQLAlchemy. 00:01:26.600 --> 00:01:28.380 SQLAlchemy straight. 00:01:28.380 --> 00:01:37.660 Or if you prefer, you could have it with data classes or you could even mix in a little sprinkling of SQL model if you're doing async and FastAPI and pydantic. 00:01:37.660 --> 00:01:41.320 Whatever choice you want to make from that perspective. 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:53.760 If you're looking at a database with 150 tables and all sorts of gnarly relationships, you might say, well, I'm going to have to spend the next week planning out how to model those out so I get them to exactly match the database. 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:55.200 Is it a Varchar? 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:59.180 Is it a Varchar with a limit like Varchar 10 or, you know, what? 00:01:59.180 --> 00:02:00.560 That doesn't sound fun, does it? 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:02.020 No, no. 00:02:02.020 --> 00:02:02.700 Not, not. 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:05.940 I mean, at least for me, maybe some people that's a special kind of fun for them. 00:02:05.940 --> 00:02:13.320 But Josh Thurston sent over this project called SQL A for SQLAlchemy code gen. 00:02:13.320 --> 00:02:15.820 So I'm taking that he doesn't think it sounds like fun. 00:02:15.820 --> 00:02:17.900 I certainly don't think that it does either. 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:19.800 So people should check this out. 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:21.280 It's it looks really cool. 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:26.920 And what you do is it's it's an automatic model generator for SQLAlchemy. 00:02:26.920 --> 00:02:29.000 What does it generate it from? 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:33.420 So what you do is you go through and you point it at some database. 00:02:33.420 --> 00:02:34.180 OK. 00:02:34.180 --> 00:02:38.060 Just say SQL A code gen and you give it your connection string. 00:02:38.060 --> 00:02:43.160 For example, Postgres SQL colon triple slash some database connection string. 00:02:43.160 --> 00:02:49.660 And then magic happens and you have a whole bunch of Python classes that are attempted to look handwritten. 00:02:50.380 --> 00:03:04.680 So instead of taking all your time, like a week to model out the database and the relationships and all that stuff in Python, you run this one command line thing and then you have all the classes and then you can tweak them a tiny bit if you see fit. 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:06.340 OK, so this is OK. 00:03:06.340 --> 00:03:08.000 You probably said this and I missed it. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:12.880 But so you already have data in a database and you're trying to hook up an application to it. 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:13.300 Yeah. 00:03:13.300 --> 00:03:13.560 Yeah. 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.120 Which is why I went on my theoretical theoretical example. 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:17.060 I have a database. 00:03:17.060 --> 00:03:18.800 I have code that talks to it, but it's not Python. 00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:21.300 And so there's not really something to work from. 00:03:21.300 --> 00:03:24.340 But I've got a really complicated database that's been around for a while. 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:25.640 It doesn't have to be complicated. 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:30.960 But the more gnarly the database, the more you will appreciate this tool making, you know, doing it for you. 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:32.960 I think I have this situation. 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:34.920 I totally want to use this. 00:03:34.920 --> 00:03:35.300 Yeah. 00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:35.680 Yeah. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:36.200 Yeah. 00:03:36.200 --> 00:03:36.460 Yeah. 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:39.260 So it does a bunch of neat things. 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:47.800 It's written to read the structure of an existing database and generate the appropriate SQLAlchemy model code using the declarative style if possible. 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:50.700 So deriving from SQLAlchemy declarative base. 00:03:50.700 --> 00:04:00.940 It's also there was some other tool called SQL Auto Code, which apparently has some limitations, such as, for example, it doesn't support Python 3 or recent versions of SQLAlchemy. 00:04:00.940 --> 00:04:03.460 That seems like a pretty large limitation, but whatever. 00:04:03.460 --> 00:04:07.060 So this supports the newest version. 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:14.780 It produces PEP 8 compliant code, tries to make it look like you're writing code by hand so it doesn't look auto-generated. 00:04:14.780 --> 00:04:20.340 It automatically detects join table inheritance and all kinds of things. 00:04:20.340 --> 00:04:23.460 So if I scroll down here, it's got these different generators. 00:04:23.460 --> 00:04:34.620 So you can generate table objects for people who don't want to use the ORM because SQLAlchemy has these two flavors, like a low level, slightly above just raw SQL, and then the ORM, which is the one that I use all the time. 00:04:34.620 --> 00:04:39.960 By default, it uses the ORM one, but you can also use, like I said, data classes, which is pretty excellent. 00:04:39.960 --> 00:04:40.380 Yeah. 00:04:40.380 --> 00:04:50.020 Instead of, you know, in case that's what you want your code to look like, or even better than that, you can use SQL model models or using SQL model, which is the project. 00:04:50.020 --> 00:04:53.360 I'm sure we've discussed it before by Sebastian. 00:04:54.120 --> 00:05:01.120 It's based on Pydantic and Async, but then it's built really on top of SQLAlchemy. 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:05.120 So if you're looking to do the newer version of that, you'll get this. 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:14.760 By the way, just thinking about it while I'm looking at this, maybe I have actually a SQLAlchemy generated database, but it's written in the older style of SQLAlchemy. 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.380 And it's not using SQL model and I want to just upgrade to SQL model. 00:05:18.380 --> 00:05:21.480 You might be able to use the database to just go rewrite it for me again. 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:25.680 But in this, in this flavor, you know, or use it to generate the data class version. 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:26.860 That actually looks pretty cool. 00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:31.560 Or do all of them and look at it and see which one you looks, looks like it's more fun to maintain. 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:32.640 Yeah, exactly. 00:05:33.060 --> 00:05:40.540 So there's a whole bunch of options and stuff that you can use, but you can basically pass a bunch of command line arguments and stuff to change how it works. 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:40.980 Cool. 00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:46.360 Like change how it names objects or change how it names fields, et cetera, et cetera. 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.720 People, if they really want to look into it and use it, I think they all got the idea from this. 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:52.100 Okay, cool. 00:05:52.100 --> 00:05:52.340 What do you think? 00:05:52.340 --> 00:05:52.720 Sound cool? 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:53.340 Yeah. 00:05:53.340 --> 00:05:54.320 Looks really cool. 00:05:54.320 --> 00:05:54.720 Yeah. 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:01.520 Anytime you've got a database, they're so hard to model because you've got to get the SQLAlchemy code to match it just right or it won't work at all. 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:04.880 And yet, you know, do you really want to do that by hand? 00:06:04.880 --> 00:06:05.900 No, I don't. 00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:08.600 And so SQL A code gen. 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:09.520 Thanks, Josh. 00:06:09.520 --> 00:06:11.460 Well, I am going to talk about package. 00:06:11.460 --> 00:06:20.240 I've been, my headspace is in packaging lately because I'm preparing a talk for next month and it's going to have some packaging stuff in it. 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:22.140 So this is really exciting. 00:06:22.140 --> 00:06:25.780 I heard from Juan Luis Cano Rodriguez. 00:06:25.780 --> 00:06:26.820 Rodriguez? 00:06:26.820 --> 00:06:27.480 Sorry. 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:36.020 SetupTool664.00 is out and it ships with PEP660 editable installs. 00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:40.680 So this, the big headline is not that, although that's really cool. 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:46.040 It's that most projects don't need a setup.py or a setup.cfg anymore. 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.340 Those can be gone. 00:06:48.760 --> 00:06:57.080 And not that setup.py was evil, but it kind of was evil because what it does is it runs Python, runs Python while you install something. 00:06:57.080 --> 00:06:59.680 Like when used normally, it's fine. 00:06:59.780 --> 00:07:05.820 But it has this tremendous gaping hole for abusing things at different levels. 00:07:05.820 --> 00:07:06.500 Yeah. 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:08.420 And the, the, okay. 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:16.340 So the caveat on this is the reason why it has that is sometimes it goes out and compiles stuff if it's not just pure Python stuff. 00:07:16.340 --> 00:07:19.020 But you don't need that for that. 00:07:19.020 --> 00:07:25.280 You, you, a lot of projects, most projects don't need that anymore because they're not really compiling stuff. 00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:31.920 If they're on during pip install, they're, they're compiling stuff ahead of time and they have their separate wheels for different architectures. 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:33.860 So I like that model better. 00:07:33.860 --> 00:07:37.820 So anyway, the, I'm like pretty excited about this. 00:07:37.820 --> 00:07:42.120 So there's a, so yeah, congrats to the pipe PA for getting that done. 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.580 We've got, there's an article called development mode, editable installs. 00:07:46.580 --> 00:07:54.260 So here you've got pip install editable that works with setup tools without a setup.py. 00:07:54.780 --> 00:07:56.620 Used to have, have to have a shim. 00:07:56.620 --> 00:07:59.420 So everything can be in piproject.toml now. 00:07:59.420 --> 00:08:08.020 And, and so one of the cool things, and I actually discovered this also at the same time I was researching packaging stuff. 00:08:08.020 --> 00:08:12.260 The pipe PA has this really cool guide packaging Python projects. 00:08:12.260 --> 00:08:16.420 And they, what's neat is they keep it up to date fairly well. 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:23.040 And this whole tutorial, it's a simple, so you got a simple Python project and you want to try to learn how to package. 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:25.600 They have this, this page here. 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:26.300 It's nice. 00:08:26.300 --> 00:08:29.420 There's no mention of setup.py or setup.cfg. 00:08:29.420 --> 00:08:31.120 It's all pyproject.toml. 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:31.600 Oh, wow. 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:32.740 That's awesome. 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:34.060 Here's how you do it. 00:08:34.060 --> 00:08:37.900 And you don't even talk about the older, more troublesome way. 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:38.680 Yeah. 00:08:38.680 --> 00:08:44.500 And since setup tools and pip are not part of Python proper, they're separate things. 00:08:44.500 --> 00:08:51.180 Well, I mean, you get pip when you, when you download Python, but you get a version and you usually upgrade anyway. 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:52.900 But setup tools is separate. 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.740 So they can move at a faster pace than Python itself. 00:08:56.740 --> 00:08:57.620 Oh, right. 00:08:57.620 --> 00:08:58.040 Okay. 00:08:58.040 --> 00:08:58.780 Excellent. 00:08:58.780 --> 00:09:00.540 Well, this is great news. 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:06.340 Anything that makes the supply chain side of Python stronger is good. 00:09:06.340 --> 00:09:06.720 Yep. 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:07.280 Indeed. 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:12.560 Well, before we move on to the next thing, Brian, let me tell you about our sponsor. 00:09:12.560 --> 00:09:13.460 All right. 00:09:13.640 --> 00:09:19.220 So this episode of Python Bytes is brought to you by the IRL podcast, an original podcast from Mozilla. 00:09:19.220 --> 00:09:24.920 If you're like me and Brian, we care about ideas behind technology, not just the tech itself. 00:09:24.920 --> 00:09:28.060 So we know that tech has an enormous influence on society. 00:09:28.060 --> 00:09:30.100 Many of these effects are hugely beneficial. 00:09:30.100 --> 00:09:34.620 Just think about carrying all of the world's information in our pockets sort of thing. 00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:37.740 But other tech influences can have negative effects. 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:48.940 And I really appreciate that Mozilla is always on the lookout for and working to mitigate negative influences of tech on all of us, all the tracking stuff they're doing, but a bunch of awareness things as well. 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:52.560 And so if these ideas resonate with you, you should definitely check out the IRL podcast. 00:09:52.560 --> 00:09:54.060 It's hosted by Bridget Todd. 00:09:54.060 --> 00:09:57.880 And this season is very much in the focus of Python. 00:09:57.880 --> 00:10:00.080 It's AI in real life. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.860 So who can AI help? 00:10:02.860 --> 00:10:04.020 Who can it harm? 00:10:04.020 --> 00:10:08.760 The show features fascinating conversations with people who are working and building more trustworthy AI. 00:10:08.760 --> 00:10:12.540 For example, there's an episode about how our world is mapped with AI. 00:10:12.540 --> 00:10:17.300 And it's the data that's missing from those maps that tells as much of the story as the maps themselves. 00:10:17.300 --> 00:10:22.400 Another one's about gig workers and how they're pushing back on algorithms to create better working style. 00:10:22.400 --> 00:10:30.300 And for political junkies, there's an episode about how the role of AI plays when it comes to spreading disinformation about elections. 00:10:30.700 --> 00:10:35.880 Obviously, huge concern as just across the world for all the democracies. 00:10:35.880 --> 00:10:48.940 I also just listened to the tech we won't build, which explores when developers and data scientists should consider pushing back on projects that can be harmful to society, even though the machine learning can easily be turned on them. 00:10:49.160 --> 00:10:51.120 If this sounds interesting, try an episode for yourself. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.300 Just search for IRL on your podcast player or visit pythonbytes.fm/IRL. 00:10:56.300 --> 00:10:58.400 The link is in your podcast player show notes. 00:10:58.400 --> 00:11:00.940 Thank you so much to IRL and Mozilla for supporting the show. 00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:01.980 I've been listening to it. 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:03.340 It's a really great show, too. 00:11:03.340 --> 00:11:03.860 Yeah. 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:04.240 Yeah. 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:05.480 I enjoy it as well. 00:11:05.480 --> 00:11:09.800 It's not super, super technical where it's all about APIs and stuff. 00:11:09.800 --> 00:11:11.600 You can kind of just kick back and enjoy it. 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.140 Not like this podcast where we're super technical. 00:11:15.300 --> 00:11:15.740 Exactly. 00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:17.100 Yeah. 00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:19.720 We talk about a bunch of technical things, sometimes not too deeply, huh? 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:20.840 Oh, I like it. 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:21.680 I like our level. 00:11:21.680 --> 00:11:23.080 Yeah, I do, too. 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:23.520 I do, too. 00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:29.580 Before we get on to the next topic, I just want to do a quick audience comment from Anna here. 00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:30.800 It says, hello from London, UK. 00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:33.440 SQL code gen sounds like it could save a lot of headaches. 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:35.140 Yeah, I think it's going to be great. 00:11:35.140 --> 00:11:35.500 Yeah. 00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:41.000 And feedback for the tutorial that you highlighted, Brian, on python.org. 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:41.560 Yep. 00:11:41.560 --> 00:11:45.580 Henry Schreiner says, it took around six months for my rewrite of that page to get accepted. 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.360 Well, thank you for all the hard work, Henry. 00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:47.840 That's awesome. 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:48.920 Great job. 00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:49.900 It looks great. 00:11:49.900 --> 00:11:50.580 Yeah. 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.340 Very, very cool. 00:11:51.340 --> 00:11:55.460 Previously, I had talked about async cache. 00:11:55.460 --> 00:11:56.060 Remember that? 00:11:56.060 --> 00:12:00.500 Where it's like the functools, LRU cache, but a little bit more. 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:02.920 However, you can apply it to async methods. 00:12:02.920 --> 00:12:07.200 Owen Lamont said, you may also be interested in AIO cache. 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:12.660 What this one does is this lets you use proper distributed backends for caching. 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:19.820 So, for example, if you're on a web app, you might have five, six, ten, maybe many more worker processes, 00:12:19.820 --> 00:12:26.300 either on one machine using the supervisor mode of like G-Unicorn, or it could be even across different computers. 00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:32.160 If you're using that in-memory version of cache, every time the request goes to a different part of your site, 00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:37.480 or different runtime, different process running your site, you've got to recompute it, right? 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:40.340 Well, this one also supports Redis and Memcached. 00:12:40.340 --> 00:12:41.220 Oh, sweet. 00:12:41.220 --> 00:12:41.840 Or Memcached. 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.980 And it has a common API across all of them, which is pretty fantastic. 00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:48.260 And they're all async and awaitable, which is cool. 00:12:48.260 --> 00:12:55.820 So, it aims for simplicity rather than trying to highlight all the nuances of that particular, say, to Redis versus the others. 00:12:55.820 --> 00:13:02.780 So, it has an add, a get, a set, a multi-get if you need to say, give me the values corresponding to these four IDs, 00:13:02.780 --> 00:13:10.340 or does this thing exist or not, delete, clear, even increment a value, like how many people view this page, increment that in the cache. 00:13:10.340 --> 00:13:15.180 And it's shared across, like I said, ten worker processes across machines instantly. 00:13:15.180 --> 00:13:16.000 How cool is that? 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:16.380 That's pretty cool. 00:13:16.380 --> 00:13:18.300 Yeah, so, super easy to work with. 00:13:18.300 --> 00:13:26.140 You can install it, but then you should also reference probably the specialization that you're using or the backend that you're using. 00:13:26.140 --> 00:13:31.160 So, for example, you can say pip install AIO cache, but if you want to use Redis, it's bracket Redis. 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:35.740 If you want to use Redis and Memcached, you might say, you know, bracket Redis, Memcached. 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:37.860 They have message pack and different formatting. 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:42.080 So, depending on how you're using it, you might have to install some dependencies, okay? 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.780 The optional install mechanism of pip is pretty cool, though. 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:46.860 It is. 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:47.500 It is pretty cool. 00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:50.740 So, you just import asyncIO, easy. 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:56.520 And then you import AOCache, and you've got to, you know, just basically run your loop somewhere. 00:13:56.520 --> 00:14:02.920 Or if you're using something like FastAPI, just that thing's generating or managing the loop for you, so you don't have to worry about it. 00:14:02.920 --> 00:14:08.040 So, you can just say await cache.set, key, comma, value, await, cache.get key. 00:14:08.040 --> 00:14:09.900 Sounds pretty straightforward, right? 00:14:09.900 --> 00:14:11.980 You can even use it as a decorator. 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:21.700 So, if you put at cache on a function, you can give it time to live, the target, which is Redis, the key to use for that particular thing, and so on. 00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:22.880 And then off it goes. 00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:23.660 It's the serializer. 00:14:23.660 --> 00:14:25.940 You have pickles, or you have message pack, or JSON. 00:14:25.940 --> 00:14:27.800 And then, there you go. 00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:28.520 Pretty cool, huh? 00:14:28.520 --> 00:14:29.600 So, does it... 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:29.800 Okay. 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:33.820 So, for a function, does it cache the input and output of that function, then? 00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:35.860 I think it caches the output. 00:14:35.860 --> 00:14:36.620 Okay. 00:14:37.540 --> 00:14:43.260 But it doesn't look like it varies by argument. 00:14:43.260 --> 00:14:44.660 At least in this example, it's not very... 00:14:44.660 --> 00:14:45.540 At least, yeah. 00:14:45.540 --> 00:14:47.300 And I don't see how you would... 00:14:47.300 --> 00:14:49.220 Like, this key is the lookup value, right? 00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:52.460 So, you might call that cache call key result or something. 00:14:52.460 --> 00:14:56.100 I don't see how you dynamically do that. 00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:57.220 It's got to be, like, a void. 00:14:57.220 --> 00:14:58.860 But, you know, a lot of times, that's... 00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:02.120 You just, like, show me all the products in this database or whatever, right? 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:02.520 Yeah. 00:15:02.520 --> 00:15:02.980 Yeah. 00:15:02.980 --> 00:15:03.600 Cool. 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:04.040 Cool. 00:15:04.040 --> 00:15:05.020 Yeah, pretty neat, huh? 00:15:05.020 --> 00:15:06.400 Very neat. 00:15:06.400 --> 00:15:06.880 Yeah. 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.780 And then you have different... 00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:10.120 Three basic ideas to think about. 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:10.960 You have these backends. 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.880 So, you have Redis backed by AIO Redis. 00:15:13.880 --> 00:15:16.640 You have Memcache backed by AIO Memcache. 00:15:16.640 --> 00:15:17.660 And then serializers. 00:15:17.660 --> 00:15:21.900 Like, you can serialize just string, pickle, JSON, message pack. 00:15:21.900 --> 00:15:23.300 But you can also build your own. 00:15:23.300 --> 00:15:24.820 And you can also plug in. 00:15:24.820 --> 00:15:27.980 There's a bunch of examples and documentation people can check out. 00:15:27.980 --> 00:15:29.240 So, this looks really neat to me. 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:29.680 Yeah. 00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:30.380 Nice. 00:15:30.380 --> 00:15:32.540 It's not quite something that I need. 00:15:32.540 --> 00:15:35.340 But if I did need it, I would definitely go... 00:15:35.340 --> 00:15:35.620 I know. 00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:37.320 And I'd be all over it. 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:37.680 Yeah. 00:15:37.680 --> 00:15:45.440 Regarding the level of detail we have in our podcast, SE Steve says, I only listen to podcasts 00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:46.040 about APIs. 00:15:46.040 --> 00:15:47.520 Nice. 00:15:47.520 --> 00:15:49.160 Nice, nice. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:51.040 What's your last one, Brian? 00:15:51.040 --> 00:15:56.020 My last one is, well, the Python Packaging Project. 00:15:56.020 --> 00:15:57.460 Packaging Python Project. 00:15:57.460 --> 00:15:57.940 Same thing. 00:15:57.940 --> 00:15:59.300 No, I have a new one. 00:15:59.300 --> 00:16:00.860 But I got it from this. 00:16:00.860 --> 00:16:06.740 So, when I was reading this article or this tutorial again, I came across something I wasn't familiar with. 00:16:06.740 --> 00:16:07.940 So, I had to go check it out. 00:16:07.940 --> 00:16:14.040 So, down with creating a PyProject.toml, one of the options is Hatchling. 00:16:14.040 --> 00:16:15.760 Hatchling? 00:16:15.760 --> 00:16:16.320 Yeah. 00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:17.420 I've heard of Hatch. 00:16:17.420 --> 00:16:19.160 Is this somehow related to Hatch? 00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:20.440 Yeah, it is Hatch. 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.120 So, have we already covered Hatch? 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.120 Actually, no, I don't think we have here, but I love the idea of it. 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:25.680 Okay. 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:32.400 So, Hatch is a modern, extensible Python project manager with a whole bunch of cool features, 00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:39.160 like a standardized build system and reproducible builds by default, and environment management, 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:40.780 which, you know, okay. 00:16:40.780 --> 00:16:45.360 So, I'm not sure if this is similar to Poetry's environment manager or not. 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:46.520 I haven't played with it much. 00:16:46.520 --> 00:16:50.040 But you don't actually have to care, which is nice. 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.440 Because poetry, you have to care about it, because that's part of the whole thing. 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:58.380 Anyway, publishing is easy to PyPI and other sources. 00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:03.960 Version management, project generation with same defaults, which I haven't tried that, so 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:04.640 I want to try that. 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:10.020 And supposedly a responsive CLI that's two to three times faster than equivalent tools. 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:11.840 So, this I definitely need to try. 00:17:11.840 --> 00:17:19.140 So, this is, I would think it's similar on the line of Flit, I think, but with some extra 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:20.360 things thrown in. 00:17:20.360 --> 00:17:26.160 And one of the reasons why I love Flit now is because even though Setup Tools does now support 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:31.440 PyProject Tommel properly, completely, Flit's like twice as fast for building stuff. 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.920 But, so I definitely want to try out Hatch and try this. 00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:39.760 I did try one little small project, just converting a Flip project to Hatch, and it took me like 00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:43.100 five minutes just using, the documentation here is great. 00:17:43.100 --> 00:17:48.020 So, the excellent documentation here about how to use the different pieces of it. 00:17:48.020 --> 00:17:48.940 So, it's pretty neat. 00:17:48.940 --> 00:17:49.640 Have you tried it? 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:50.580 I have not tried it. 00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:52.840 I've looked at it, and it looks neat to me. 00:17:52.840 --> 00:17:55.060 I don't make many packages. 00:17:55.060 --> 00:17:58.200 I more build applications and web apps and stuff. 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:03.620 So, I'm less in the, what's the right tool to build packages properly? 00:18:03.620 --> 00:18:05.580 You know, and I know you're doing that a little bit more. 00:18:05.580 --> 00:18:07.940 So, I just want to learn from you. 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:09.020 I guess, good mix. 00:18:09.020 --> 00:18:12.320 I do more packages and less applications, and you do more applications. 00:18:12.320 --> 00:18:13.300 So, it's good. 00:18:13.300 --> 00:18:13.540 Yeah. 00:18:13.540 --> 00:18:15.840 Some live feedback. 00:18:15.840 --> 00:18:23.020 Henry Schreiner says, you can use any PEP 6.21 backend, Hatchlane, PDM, FlitCore, and so 00:18:23.020 --> 00:18:27.540 on with Hatch or with PDM2, one of the fantastic results of standardization. 00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:31.980 And that Hatchlane does a much better job of getting source files right than FlitCore. 00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:32.580 Okay. 00:18:32.580 --> 00:18:33.320 Interesting. 00:18:33.320 --> 00:18:33.640 Yeah. 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:39.460 Yeah, there was a lot of cool options with the Hatch that you could specify exactly which 00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:42.020 modules and packages to pick up if you need to. 00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:45.960 That's one of the things that's a little bit mysterious with Flit, how to figure it out, 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.040 because it just sort of knows somehow. 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:54.020 I think it's the stuff that's in Git, but it's interesting. 00:18:54.020 --> 00:18:59.820 So, the main thing is, is I really like, with the standardization, that Hatch is possible, 00:18:59.820 --> 00:19:06.780 that Flit's possible, that PDM is possible, that we can do new things, and they're not that 00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:07.160 different. 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:12.560 Like, it's kind of the backend of packaging, and the frontend is the PyProject.tom. 00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:15.200 That's a better world to be in. 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.200 Yeah, that separation lets there be a lot more exploration. 00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:20.380 A lot more variation. 00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:20.860 Yep. 00:19:20.860 --> 00:19:21.320 All right. 00:19:21.320 --> 00:19:23.000 Well, that's it for our items, isn't it? 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:24.540 I think so, yeah. 00:19:24.540 --> 00:19:26.260 You got any extras? 00:19:26.260 --> 00:19:30.500 No, but hopefully I will soon. 00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:31.900 So, I've got something I'm working on. 00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:32.400 Oh, right on. 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:32.880 Yeah. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:33.700 Yes, I know. 00:19:33.700 --> 00:19:35.480 I think I know what you're alluding to. 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:37.440 Very exciting stuff coming quite soon. 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:37.980 Yeah. 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:38.480 How about you? 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:39.580 I have one extra. 00:19:39.580 --> 00:19:41.000 This one's quick, but quite cool. 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:47.640 So, I'm sitting here on my MacBook Pro with the M1, you know, MacBook Pro, the M1 Max. 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.700 And until recently, I wasn't able to use PyPy. 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.580 Now, PyPy is the JIT compiled, often faster version of Python. 00:19:57.580 --> 00:20:03.560 Sometimes you'll hear people say PyPy when they are referring to PyPI, but all the people 00:20:03.560 --> 00:20:05.860 who work on PyPI pronounce it that way. 00:20:05.860 --> 00:20:08.760 And it leaves space for PyPy to be pronounced it like it should. 00:20:08.760 --> 00:20:13.900 So, PyPy is the fast JIT compiled version of Python. 00:20:13.900 --> 00:20:19.860 And the big news is, a couple weeks ago, they announced support for M1, which is pretty cool. 00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:22.320 So, if you're on Apple Silicon, you can now use PyPy. 00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:23.140 That's very cool. 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:23.580 Natively. 00:20:23.580 --> 00:20:24.020 Yeah. 00:20:24.020 --> 00:20:32.180 It was done by Fajal and supported by contributions from the Open Collective, which is pretty cool. 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:39.640 And it's based on support for ARCH64, which is ARM64 and Linux, with some variations on 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:40.200 how this works. 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:46.400 So, they've got 3.8 and 3.9 working on macOS ARM64 platform, which is pretty cool. 00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:49.560 So, if you're using that and you've been waiting for this, it should make your code run faster, 00:20:49.560 --> 00:20:51.380 maybe use less memory, that kind of thing. 00:20:51.380 --> 00:20:51.940 Very cool. 00:20:51.940 --> 00:21:00.340 If people are interested in PyPy, testing code on episode 190, I interviewed Carl Frederick Bowles 00:21:00.340 --> 00:21:02.000 about testing PyPy. 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:03.280 Oh, cool. 00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:04.120 Yeah. 00:21:04.120 --> 00:21:05.220 There's a lot of testing. 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:08.100 I mean, it's the entire Python runtime, basically. 00:21:08.100 --> 00:21:10.480 It's like in much of the standard library. 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:11.060 That's a lot of work. 00:21:11.060 --> 00:21:11.540 Yeah. 00:21:11.540 --> 00:21:12.900 It's an interesting story. 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:13.800 So, yeah. 00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:19.480 Would you say that testing and documentation are often really good things to add to your 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:21.500 project that go along together in some ways? 00:21:21.500 --> 00:21:24.440 Well, hopefully you're doing it at the same time, but yes. 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:25.080 Yes. 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:30.900 You know, we've all worked with different types of team dynamics, the sort of flat hierarchy. 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:34.760 People would just take over the projects, the parts of the projects that they seem best suited 00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:35.100 for. 00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:39.400 And there might be more hierarchical versions. 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:46.560 So, our joke this week is about a somewhat dominating senior developer here. 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:49.880 And there's a junior developer just hired onto the team. 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:51.040 This is a picture. 00:21:51.040 --> 00:21:51.960 People can check it out. 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:53.440 Just follow the link in the show notes. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.460 The junior asks, where's the documentation? 00:21:55.460 --> 00:22:00.040 In a very stern face, the team says, I am the documentation. 00:22:01.800 --> 00:22:06.760 Hopefully, you're not currently working in this situation, but it's pretty funny. 00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:10.000 You know, there's always bits. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.020 There's always pieces of the system that are like, well, how does this work? 00:22:14.020 --> 00:22:15.820 Oh, you've got to ask that guy. 00:22:15.820 --> 00:22:17.660 He's not even on our team anymore. 00:22:17.660 --> 00:22:19.660 Yeah, but he's the one that wrote it. 00:22:19.660 --> 00:22:21.420 And luckily, he's still with the company. 00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:22.260 So, go talk to him. 00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:22.820 Exactly. 00:22:22.820 --> 00:22:24.640 No one understands that we don't touch it anymore. 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:25.540 It seems to still work. 00:22:25.540 --> 00:22:26.020 Yeah. 00:22:26.580 --> 00:22:26.900 Exactly. 00:22:26.900 --> 00:22:27.760 All right. 00:22:27.760 --> 00:22:29.900 Well, what seems to still be working is our podcast, Brian. 00:22:29.900 --> 00:22:30.840 It does. 00:22:30.840 --> 00:22:31.140 Thanks for being here. 00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:31.560 Yeah. 00:22:31.560 --> 00:22:32.100 Thanks for being here. 00:22:32.100 --> 00:22:32.400 Thank you. 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:33.300 Yep. 00:22:33.300 --> 00:22:34.600 Thanks for everyone to listen. 00:22:34.600 --> 00:22:35.480 See y'all later.