WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.820 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.820 --> 00:00:11.060 This is episode 317, recorded January 3rd, 2023, and I am Brian Okken. 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:12.200 Hello, I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.200 --> 00:00:14.760 Welcome to 2023. How exciting. 00:00:14.760 --> 00:00:20.040 It is very exciting. It's a lot like 2022, but I think maybe a little more optimism. We'll see. 00:00:20.040 --> 00:00:26.880 Yeah, but I've had one extra shower since 2022. Do you remember 2022? It just feels like a few days ago. 00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:29.700 It honestly, it really flew by. Yeah. 00:00:30.100 --> 00:00:33.720 I mean, we stayed inside for like two years and they're like, hey, look, we're going to go outside. 00:00:33.720 --> 00:00:36.400 Oh, time flies when you're not just stuck inside. 00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:38.920 I even actually rode a bicycle the other day. 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:39.600 Nice. 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:41.760 And then Oregon said we're going to rain for two weeks. 00:00:41.760 --> 00:00:43.300 Of course. Of course it did. 00:00:43.300 --> 00:00:46.260 Yeah. Well, let's kick it off. What do you got for us first? 00:00:46.260 --> 00:00:52.500 All right. Let's talk about the Stack Overflow 2022 developer survey. 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:58.760 Now, this is one of the better surveys that gives you a pulse on the developer community. 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:03.140 It's, you know, we do the PSF survey every year and that one I think is really well done. 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:06.240 This one's interesting because it's not just Python, obviously. 00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:08.800 It's all of Stack Overflow people. 00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:09.340 Yeah. 00:01:09.340 --> 00:01:11.580 And it's really, really long. 00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:12.920 Notice the scroll bar. 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:19.480 So I'm going to try to go through these and just hit on some of the high points for us. 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:20.080 All right. 00:01:20.080 --> 00:01:22.820 So they did that as well for us at the top here. 00:01:22.820 --> 00:01:26.160 They kind of summarized some little things you can call out in the jump to other sections saying, 00:01:26.520 --> 00:01:30.380 learning to code online increased by 10% year over year. 00:01:30.380 --> 00:01:35.540 However, respondents older than 45 years are most likely to have learned from books, 00:01:35.540 --> 00:01:45.520 whereas the youngins are more likely to use some kind of online course or, you know, YouTube video or something along those lines. 00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:46.760 Does that surprise you? 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:47.460 No. 00:01:47.860 --> 00:01:48.380 Yeah, me either. 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:55.380 So last year they said we saw Git rise as a fundamental tool of software development. 00:01:55.380 --> 00:01:59.080 So like if you are a software developer, you basically just need to know Git. 00:01:59.080 --> 00:02:06.560 Surprisingly, this year they said that's Docker this year, increasing from 55% usage to 69% usage. 00:02:06.960 --> 00:02:12.700 And I kind of feel like the hype and the heyday of Docker was actually a couple of years ago. 00:02:12.700 --> 00:02:17.540 And I hear a little bit less, maybe it's just less hype, but it's just more like, yeah, we're just using it. 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:21.200 But I don't know that that was surprising and interesting to me. 00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:24.540 I'm using it more in places where I didn't used to. 00:02:24.540 --> 00:02:25.620 Like what? 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:29.060 Build chains for just to keep them consistent. 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:31.980 We're just, and it isn't even a cloud thing. 00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:38.320 It's just having, being able to have a consistent build system no matter what machine you're on. 00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:39.980 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 00:02:39.980 --> 00:02:43.040 CI systems are utilizing Docker more. 00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:43.560 Sure. 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:48.360 I've heard of even people using Docker to manage and employ. 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:49.960 Is that how you would phrase it? 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:54.320 Little apps to Raspberry Pis for like home automation and stuff. 00:02:54.320 --> 00:02:54.780 Really? 00:02:54.780 --> 00:03:00.020 I'm sure there would be more of that if you could actually get a Raspberry Pi, but you know, this is more of a theoretical. 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:02.220 Those who already have the Raspberry Pi. 00:03:02.220 --> 00:03:09.060 The most, one of my favorite sections of this is the most loved, most dreaded and most wanted. 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:09.840 Yeah. 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:17.040 Because it really tells you, you know, how do people feel about how things are now and how do they feel about where they're going? 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.540 Right. 00:03:17.540 --> 00:03:26.360 What, what would they do if they were unencumbered by, you know, their boss saying, nope, we're using this particular database or nope, it's all Angular. 00:03:26.600 --> 00:03:30.360 And you're on the team that does Angular, so I don't care what you want, you're doing Angular, you know? 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:35.300 And so Rust is on its seventh year as the most loved language. 00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:36.880 Seven years? 00:03:36.880 --> 00:03:38.340 Is it even seven years old? 00:03:38.340 --> 00:03:39.220 I know. 00:03:39.220 --> 00:03:39.880 I know. 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:40.740 That's my thought as well. 00:03:40.740 --> 00:03:41.280 Okay. 00:03:41.700 --> 00:03:45.200 Seven percent of developers saying they want to continue using it. 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:45.740 Wow. 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:48.260 I mean, yeah, anyway, that's pretty interesting. 00:03:48.260 --> 00:03:56.540 But it also, Python and Rust are basically exactly tied as the most wanted programming language. 00:03:56.540 --> 00:03:57.240 That's cool. 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:58.220 I can see that. 00:03:58.480 --> 00:03:59.260 Yeah, absolutely. 00:03:59.260 --> 00:04:00.780 Phoenix. 00:04:00.780 --> 00:04:05.300 Phoenix is some web framework I've never heard of that is apparently the most popular. 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:09.800 AngularJS, it continues into its third year of being the most dreaded. 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:10.800 All right. 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:11.200 What else? 00:04:11.200 --> 00:04:11.900 Go ahead. 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:13.280 Oh, just React. 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:14.760 Yeah. 00:04:14.760 --> 00:04:16.520 It's most wanted, but who knows? 00:04:16.520 --> 00:04:17.460 Yeah, exactly. 00:04:17.460 --> 00:04:23.040 So some of these questions and some of these phrasings and analyses are super, super good, 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:24.920 and others are really bad. 00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:26.960 So I'll try to highlight some of these. 00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:28.700 So let me jump down here. 00:04:28.700 --> 00:04:31.160 Well, I don't really care about the education stuff. 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:32.540 Education. 00:04:32.540 --> 00:04:34.340 Education profile. 00:04:34.340 --> 00:04:39.800 It tells you things like, yeah, there's an insane number of guys versus women. 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:40.860 No, that's fine. 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:43.700 I just thought it was funny that you said I don't care about education. 00:04:43.700 --> 00:04:44.880 No, I don't. 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:49.420 Teacher, you know, leave the kids alone. 00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:49.800 All right. 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.720 So no, like it's fine, but it's, you know, people can check it out if they care about it, 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:54.940 right? 00:04:54.940 --> 00:04:58.260 Like there's stuff about the demographics, like age and gender. 00:04:58.260 --> 00:04:59.280 That is pretty interesting. 00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:01.260 I wish some of these numbers were better. 00:05:01.260 --> 00:05:04.840 Like, yeah, it totally is. 00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:05.160 Right. 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.220 But, you know, that's also not news. 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:11.500 So, yeah, some of the most popular technologies here. 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:16.140 Now, I know, Brian, I might just be getting older and grumpy, but when I look at this, 00:05:16.180 --> 00:05:20.760 there's like, it's almost all these responses are broken into two segments, professional 00:05:20.760 --> 00:05:22.940 developers and learning to code people. 00:05:22.940 --> 00:05:26.380 And the default is to take all those together. 00:05:26.380 --> 00:05:28.180 And I guess that's the biggest picture. 00:05:28.180 --> 00:05:29.220 But I don't know. 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:32.500 I just, when I look at this, I'm just like professional developers tell me about this. 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:38.440 Like, you know, if some, if you're on your third week of a coding tutorial and that tutorial 00:05:38.440 --> 00:05:43.600 says use this, like how, how much does that really speak to the state of the community? 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:44.740 I don't think it, you know. 00:05:44.740 --> 00:05:45.060 Agreed. 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:49.200 So I'm checking, like when I think about these, I'm just going to check professional 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:49.620 developer. 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:51.680 And if you want the same numbers, you can do so as well. 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:52.700 So where are we? 00:05:52.700 --> 00:05:56.440 We are on programming languages, scripting and markup. 00:05:56.440 --> 00:05:59.680 JavaScript is definitely the most popular here. 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.920 This is one of those areas where I don't, I think you need to phrase it a little bit different. 00:06:04.020 --> 00:06:05.900 Let's see what the question exactly is. 00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:12.400 Which programming languages have you done extensive development work in over the year, over the 00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:12.820 last year? 00:06:12.820 --> 00:06:13.140 Okay. 00:06:13.140 --> 00:06:17.760 I, I don't know how quite how to solve this problem, but there's a ton of Python people 00:06:17.760 --> 00:06:18.880 who did JavaScript work. 00:06:18.880 --> 00:06:19.360 Yeah. 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:24.020 There is a ton of C++ people who did SQL, right? 00:06:24.020 --> 00:06:25.600 There's also Python people who did SQL. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:32.880 So SQL ranks above Python, but there's very few people whose job it is as a developer to 00:06:32.880 --> 00:06:36.100 write SQL and not use something else. 00:06:36.100 --> 00:06:36.660 Right. 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:40.160 So that's, it's weird to have SQL even in there. 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:40.900 Yeah, I know. 00:06:40.900 --> 00:06:43.300 Well, HTML and CSS, right. 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.700 Is, is like a little bit weirder as well. 00:06:45.700 --> 00:06:50.820 And so I feel like it should say like, what is your primary programming language or something 00:06:50.820 --> 00:06:52.580 like, you know, something like that. 00:06:52.580 --> 00:06:52.760 Right. 00:06:52.760 --> 00:06:55.600 I feel like it's, it's, it's kind of like favorite movie. 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.380 Like what's your favorite movie, but not princess bride. 00:06:58.380 --> 00:07:00.040 Other than that, what's your favorite movie? 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:01.000 Yes, exactly. 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:01.740 Exactly. 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:07.240 So like there's people who do Node.js and JavaScript, and that is what I think this top bar where 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:08.520 JavaScript is should represent. 00:07:08.520 --> 00:07:08.920 Yeah. 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:11.220 But it's that plus everyone else, right? 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:11.860 Aggregated. 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:12.980 so I don't know. 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:15.260 It's, these are a little bit weird, but I'll just go to the top. 00:07:15.260 --> 00:07:15.420 Yeah, back end. 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:20.400 So like, unless you're primarily just a front end developer, what back end languages? 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:21.260 Right, right. 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:24.040 Or maybe you're using Node on the back end, but then other than that. 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:28.420 So, JavaScript, number one, HTML, top programming language. 00:07:28.420 --> 00:07:28.880 Okay. 00:07:28.880 --> 00:07:31.840 SQL, third most, and then Python and then TypeScript. 00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:34.420 So, you know, like a bunch of interesting ones. 00:07:34.420 --> 00:07:42.540 And then you've got your, your, your, VM, garbage collected JavaScript, Java and C# back there. 00:07:42.540 --> 00:07:45.340 And then it starts to fall, fall off pretty quick after that. 00:07:45.340 --> 00:07:48.700 Down at the very bottom, let's see the very bottom one is Crystal. 00:07:48.700 --> 00:07:49.280 Okay. 00:07:49.280 --> 00:07:50.220 And APL. 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:50.940 Oh my gosh. 00:07:50.940 --> 00:07:51.740 APL. 00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:53.860 APL is, is, something. 00:07:53.860 --> 00:07:54.280 All right. 00:07:54.280 --> 00:07:57.780 another one that's worth, talking about is databases. 00:07:57.780 --> 00:08:04.640 So we've got Postgres, MySQL, SQLite, SQL Server, MongoDB as the top five. 00:08:04.640 --> 00:08:08.740 So, it's pretty clear that Postgres has the momentum. 00:08:08.740 --> 00:08:12.400 Like MySQL was higher and now Postgres is passing it. 00:08:12.440 --> 00:08:15.180 But, you know, that's kind of, going up, here. 00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:18.600 So this is which environments have you done extensive work in? 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.560 We'll also see that in like the loved versus dreaded section. 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:23.100 Yeah. 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:28.220 And by the way, on the audience, Marco says, I've already aged myself with that Pink Floyd reference. 00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:28.540 Indeed. 00:08:28.540 --> 00:08:29.060 Yeah. 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:30.840 All right. 00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:37.260 So cloud platforms, you know, AWS, I'm going to surprise you that AWS has over half of the entire market. 00:08:37.260 --> 00:08:37.860 No. 00:08:37.860 --> 00:08:38.480 No. 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.140 But only, it's only a smidge over half, it's 55. 00:08:41.140 --> 00:08:41.580 So. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:42.500 Yeah, exactly. 00:08:42.500 --> 00:08:44.160 web technologies. 00:08:44.160 --> 00:08:45.560 Here's another one. 00:08:45.560 --> 00:08:47.020 no, not this. 00:08:47.020 --> 00:08:48.520 This one's kind of, kind of okay. 00:08:48.520 --> 00:08:54.020 But like, for example, they've got Node.js, but they don't have Python, right? 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:55.460 So, I don't know. 00:08:55.460 --> 00:08:56.740 It's a little bit funky. 00:08:56.740 --> 00:09:06.500 Like they've Node and Express and Express runs on Node, whereas they have Flask and Django, but they don't have the thing that Django and Flask run on. 00:09:06.500 --> 00:09:07.540 Which is, I don't know. 00:09:07.580 --> 00:09:09.920 Anyway, it's a little bit of a challenging one. 00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:12.500 But Node and React are quite high up there. 00:09:12.500 --> 00:09:17.960 Look at this artifact, this living fossil right here, Brian. 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:18.920 What's number three? 00:09:18.920 --> 00:09:19.620 jQuery. 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:20.480 jQuery. 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:21.240 You know it. 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:23.400 Dollar document ready. 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.940 Let's go. 00:09:23.940 --> 00:09:24.860 All right. 00:09:25.140 --> 00:09:26.740 I learned jQuery a long time ago. 00:09:26.740 --> 00:09:30.420 Yeah, I still use a little bit of jQuery if there's some site that's already using it. 00:09:30.420 --> 00:09:31.160 I'm like, yeah, whatever. 00:09:31.160 --> 00:09:34.360 It's gonna, I'm just gonna put one handler in here and not worry about it. 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:35.580 FastAPIs on the list. 00:09:35.580 --> 00:09:37.580 Yeah, FastAPIs on the list. 00:09:37.580 --> 00:09:40.600 Django and Flask are 14.6%. 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:41.020 Both. 00:09:41.020 --> 00:09:44.180 FastAPIs, 6% and going up. 00:09:44.180 --> 00:09:47.900 FastAPIs just actually had a Ruby on Rails, which is pretty interesting. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:53.820 Wait, so Phoenix is down at 2%, 2.13%, but I thought it was like. 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:55.780 It's the most loved. 00:09:55.780 --> 00:09:56.520 Okay. 00:09:56.520 --> 00:09:57.380 It's the most wanted. 00:09:57.380 --> 00:10:04.280 I'm not, I looked at it, I'm not sure I agree with that, but it's a web framework built on 00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:05.820 the Elixir language. 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:07.400 So, there you have it. 00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:07.920 And we'll see. 00:10:07.920 --> 00:10:14.280 So, yeah, another one here that's worth pointing out, I'm not gonna go over too many more. 00:10:14.280 --> 00:10:15.660 Other frameworks and libraries. 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.360 This one is pretty weird in terms of like the partition. 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:23.420 This is what I had in mind when I'm like, there's something really weird about this. 00:10:23.420 --> 00:10:23.880 So. 00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:26.080 .NET and NumPy in the same bucket. 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:26.760 Exactly. 00:10:26.760 --> 00:10:30.080 So, .NET is the equivalent of Python. 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:32.340 It's the equivalent of C++. 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:35.040 It's the equivalent of Ruby, right? 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.700 It's like a huge and broad. 00:10:36.700 --> 00:10:41.380 And it's the thing that all the other stuff in that ecosystem runs on, right? 00:10:41.380 --> 00:10:43.140 ASP.NET or whatever. 00:10:43.140 --> 00:10:45.620 And so, they say, what other language do you work with? 00:10:45.680 --> 00:10:47.180 Do you work with other libraries? 00:10:47.180 --> 00:10:49.260 Do you work with .NET or do you work with NumPy? 00:10:49.260 --> 00:10:50.740 Or do you work with Pandas? 00:10:50.740 --> 00:10:52.080 There's no Python here, right? 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.540 And there's no Go and there's no, no. 00:10:54.540 --> 00:10:55.460 I don't know. 00:10:55.460 --> 00:11:00.200 Like, it's just, it's, I feel like this just fully is like out of place here. 00:11:00.280 --> 00:11:06.020 So, if you just go past that, the top two are NumPy and Pandas, which by quite a good margin. 00:11:06.020 --> 00:11:11.780 And then Spring for Java, React Native for mobile with JavaScript, Flutter. 00:11:11.780 --> 00:11:15.800 And, but then back to a bunch of Python libraries. 00:11:15.800 --> 00:11:15.860 Yeah. 00:11:15.860 --> 00:11:17.360 Like you learn PyTorch. 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.020 Yeah. 00:11:18.020 --> 00:11:22.520 So, Python actually ranks pretty high in the other frameworks and libraries you might be using. 00:11:22.880 --> 00:11:22.980 All right. 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:27.180 Let's just, let's jump to the loved, dreaded, wanted section. 00:11:27.180 --> 00:11:28.560 And then that's probably enough. 00:11:28.560 --> 00:11:29.620 People can check out the rest. 00:11:29.620 --> 00:11:30.220 All right. 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:34.920 So, they've got this sort of, you know, like what is driving the market? 00:11:35.260 --> 00:11:38.660 Greed versus fear type of thing. 00:11:38.660 --> 00:11:47.620 And so, they put each technology up and it's got a how much love versus how much hate does this technology get in a single bar, which is, the graphics here are pretty nice. 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:51.220 So, Rust, 86% love. 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:55.940 So, people who use Rust really like Rust and they don't strongly dislike it. 00:11:55.940 --> 00:11:57.880 It's probably a self-selecting group, right? 00:11:57.880 --> 00:12:02.580 If you made, if you took, I don't know, JavaScript people and told them they had to do Rust, they might not like it. 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:04.340 But Rust people seem to really like Rust. 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:05.240 Elixir. 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:09.600 I've never done anything with Elixir, but it's also really high. 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:16.820 Clojure TypeScript and Python is there at about two-thirds loved, one-third dreaded, I suppose, or not loved. 00:12:16.820 --> 00:12:18.540 And you can see it goes down from there. 00:12:18.540 --> 00:12:23.400 Yeah, I kind of want to talk to those 32% of the people and say, what is it that you don't like? 00:12:23.400 --> 00:12:24.800 Well, I agree. 00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:31.360 I feel like there's a lot of people who end up, so, for example, if you look at just the third that says they don't like it, 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.200 that's 11 times as many people using Elixir. 00:12:34.420 --> 00:12:37.640 And that's two times all the people using Rust. 00:12:37.640 --> 00:12:40.960 So I think it's a little bit, you know, a scale thing, right? 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.840 Like, there's a bunch of people who were working in one technology and then they were told, you're going to do Python. 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:51.900 And some of them wanted that change and some of them probably like, but I like C++ or I like whatever I'm doing. 00:12:51.980 --> 00:12:54.320 And, you know, they're unhappy to be in that situation. 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.660 So I imagine there's some of that going on here. 00:12:56.900 --> 00:13:02.540 There's less people like being moved into Elixir projects unless they really, you know, want to because it's a pretty small group. 00:13:02.540 --> 00:13:04.080 Anyway, there's that. 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:12.320 And then if you switch to the wanted, though, Python and Rust tie for number one in most wanted, along with TypeScript is showing very notable there. 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:12.660 Yeah. 00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:13.300 Nice. 00:13:13.660 --> 00:13:13.860 Yeah. 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.900 Last one, we'll say databases, I suppose. 00:13:16.900 --> 00:13:20.340 Postgres, most loved, least dreaded. 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:25.220 Redis, again, one of the things like, does this really belong on this list? 00:13:25.220 --> 00:13:26.340 Redis is cool. 00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:31.040 It's mostly for caching and message queues, not really as a standalone independent database. 00:13:31.300 --> 00:13:33.720 So can it really be the most wanted database? 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:37.960 You technically, I know, can make it work that way, but it's not really built for it. 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:38.920 So I don't know. 00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:41.180 Anyway, Redis is number two, whether it belongs there or not. 00:13:41.180 --> 00:13:43.840 And then MongoDB and SQLite and so on. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.000 In terms of wanted, Postgres and Mongo. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.620 Nice. 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.020 No, not too much of a change. 00:13:48.020 --> 00:13:48.540 All right. 00:13:48.540 --> 00:13:50.360 I think that's pretty much it. 00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:54.380 I'll give just a quick shout out to some graphics that are down here that people can play with. 00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:57.800 If you really want to go explore, Brian, check this out. 00:13:57.800 --> 00:13:59.500 Like, which one is this? 00:14:00.020 --> 00:14:01.640 This database one's probably fair. 00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:05.280 So there's this giant, I don't know what section is this. 00:14:05.280 --> 00:14:09.120 It is work with versus want to work with. 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:09.820 Okay. 00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:12.980 So it has this wheel. 00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:18.940 And as you move around the wheel, it'll show you, for example, 5,000 people who worked with 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:20.920 Postgres want to work with SQLite. 00:14:20.920 --> 00:14:24.720 8,000 people who work with MongoDB want to stay with it. 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.260 Whereas 7,000 people who work with MySQL want to move to MongoDB. 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:35.320 And similarly, there's like, it shows you all these interesting trends and flows from this 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:36.740 technology to that technology. 00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:42.060 Like if you go up here to the language one and you go to pros and you click on C#, it's 00:14:42.060 --> 00:14:46.520 pretty interesting because like the C# people, they want to go to TypeScript or Python 00:14:46.520 --> 00:14:49.420 or JavaScript or HTML, but they don't want to go to Java. 00:14:49.420 --> 00:14:51.540 Like there's no arc over to Java, right? 00:14:51.540 --> 00:14:54.780 Because these are basically the same technology with slight different trade-offs. 00:14:54.900 --> 00:14:57.320 So if you wanted to be in Java, you would just be in Java, I feel like. 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:58.000 Yeah. 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.420 You can sort of check out these flows and stuff. 00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:04.140 Anyway, I think that's more than enough on this survey, but people should go check it out. 00:15:04.140 --> 00:15:07.620 There's a lot of data here and a lot of things to learn. 00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:09.060 So does that say HypeScript? 00:15:09.060 --> 00:15:10.520 HypeScript? 00:15:10.520 --> 00:15:11.820 It doesn't fit on the screen. 00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:12.200 That's all. 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:12.500 Oh, okay. 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:13.600 It's HypeScript. 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:14.460 Hype. 00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:15.040 Yeah. 00:15:15.040 --> 00:15:16.720 There's just YPE script. 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.480 HypeScript with, yeah, it's just a scaling. 00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:20.120 Nice. 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:20.400 Yeah. 00:15:20.400 --> 00:15:21.000 Okay. 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.440 Before we move on real quick, John out in the audience says, 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.560 it's interesting that MySQL and MariaDB are perceived so differently. 00:15:27.560 --> 00:15:28.160 Yeah. 00:15:28.160 --> 00:15:29.080 That is true. 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:29.680 Yeah. 00:15:29.680 --> 00:15:30.340 I don't know much. 00:15:30.340 --> 00:15:36.380 I think that MySQL has a problem that people used it a long time ago, 00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:39.440 and maybe it's different now, but I mean, that's what I'm basing it. 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.580 My experience with MySQL is like all over 10 years ago. 00:15:43.580 --> 00:15:44.260 Yeah. 00:15:44.260 --> 00:15:44.720 Same. 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:45.340 All right. 00:15:45.340 --> 00:15:46.260 What you got for us next? 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:51.100 Well, I wanted to talk about Peppy, or I don't know. 00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:53.100 It's P-E-P-Y.tech. 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:59.360 So I found out about this from the person that wrote it, Petru Reres. 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.780 So we've talked about something similar. 00:16:03.780 --> 00:16:10.400 What we've talked about before is PyPI download stats or pypistats.org. 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:12.480 And so I was like, well, what's different? 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.280 So Peppy does download stats for packages. 00:16:16.280 --> 00:16:20.320 So what we're showing here is the stats for pytest. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:27.360 And what the PyPI stats does is it shows you a breakdown of like you've got the overall packages, 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:32.800 but then you can also look at downloads per Python 2 versus 3, 00:16:32.800 --> 00:16:36.760 and then major and minor versions of Python. 00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:39.180 And so that's kind of interesting. 00:16:39.180 --> 00:16:40.160 Okay. 00:16:40.160 --> 00:16:48.720 But actually now, after we're like so much far past the 2 versus 3 split, like I'm not even supporting 2 anymore. 00:16:49.380 --> 00:16:53.060 So what I like is Peppy doesn't do that. 00:16:53.060 --> 00:16:55.980 So Peppy's same stats are same for pytest. 00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:59.180 What it's looking at is it grabs like the top handful. 00:16:59.180 --> 00:17:00.920 So let's do the default. 00:17:00.920 --> 00:17:03.180 I have it all customized right now. 00:17:03.460 --> 00:17:05.960 So let's drop those off. 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:17.260 By default, it shows us the last few versions of pytest plus all of the downloads for the last major one. 00:17:17.260 --> 00:17:19.260 So all the 7x downloads. 00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:23.540 And so the numbers are a little different because we're not showing everything. 00:17:23.540 --> 00:17:28.500 So right off the bat, I kind of like that I'm just caring about the last few versions. 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:29.340 That's kind of nice. 00:17:29.340 --> 00:17:37.900 And it also has a daily, weekly, monthly chart so that you can kind of see trends going on, which is nice. 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:46.380 What I didn't realize at first is that you can select different statistics. 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:51.440 So if I wanted to see everything on all versions, I can just go ahead and type a star there. 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:53.420 I think that works. 00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:53.860 Yeah. 00:17:53.860 --> 00:17:54.480 There you go. 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:56.680 And then it does all of the downloads. 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:04.020 And then also when I just dropped that, I don't know if you noticed, but it shows all the different download stats already. 00:18:04.020 --> 00:18:08.400 So you can kind of get a glimpse of what you're going to find right off the bat. 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:15.940 Now going down through the chart, we've got both a chart and a table for when they grab the data. 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:20.660 And this split up of, I'm not looking at Python version. 00:18:20.660 --> 00:18:25.880 I'm looking at version for the package that I care about or possibly my package. 00:18:26.040 --> 00:18:28.840 So I did this recently for pytest-check. 00:18:28.840 --> 00:18:33.420 And I was thinking about it for pytest of like, which version should I support? 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:40.240 And clearly, like most, like tons of people have switched up to, most people have switched to 7x already. 00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:46.020 So yeah, I think it's perfectly fair game to not support 6x pytest anymore. 00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:47.140 So why not? 00:18:47.140 --> 00:18:51.420 Anyway, so just a different take on download stats. 00:18:51.420 --> 00:19:00.000 Plus, it includes some cool badges that if you want to grab your, like add this to your repo to say how many downloads per week or per month. 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.960 Kind of neat. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.140 Yeah, that's really cool. 00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:14.340 If you, you know, if you're open, if you're maintaining some open source package and you're like, and it depends on something like this, like pytest, you just, you can quickly look at that and make a call. 00:19:14.340 --> 00:19:18.800 Like, well, how, how important is it for me to support this old version? 00:19:18.800 --> 00:19:21.980 Or how ready am I to move to the new thing? 00:19:21.980 --> 00:19:28.140 Adopt this feature that won't allow older versions of, you know, Python or whatever it is you're looking at, right? 00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:29.220 Like, should we add types? 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.920 Well, that might not work on like, where is that? 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.020 3.3 and before. 00:19:33.020 --> 00:19:33.680 Yeah. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.000 Well, like on pytest-check, I've got a feature that I'm going to deprecate. 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.940 And it's only been in since like the last version. 00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:44.500 I just didn't think through the API enough, I think. 00:19:44.500 --> 00:19:48.520 But so I wanted to take a look how many people are using the most recent version. 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:53.620 And actually, so most of the people are, or quite a few people are using the most recent version. 00:19:53.620 --> 00:19:55.120 But it isn't most. 00:19:55.120 --> 00:20:02.640 It's, if I do like a total of every version, it's definitely not most people using the most recent one. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.960 But I don't know. 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.900 And of those, I have no idea what, if they're using the feature or not. 00:20:06.900 --> 00:20:08.680 Anyway, interesting. 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:09.820 Take a look on it. 00:20:09.820 --> 00:20:10.920 And I appreciate it. 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:12.860 And it's an open source project as well. 00:20:12.860 --> 00:20:17.740 And some of these graphs have been updated by a contributor. 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.460 So it's kind of nice to have it alive and well on open source. 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:22.180 Peppy. 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:22.700 Peppy. 00:20:22.700 --> 00:20:23.140 Tech. 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:23.680 Yeah. 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:24.080 Very nice. 00:20:24.080 --> 00:20:24.840 Good find. 00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:25.240 I like it. 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:25.760 All right. 00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:27.900 Off to our sponsor for the week. 00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:28.840 Yes. 00:20:28.840 --> 00:20:32.900 Thank you, Microsoft, for sponsoring this episode. 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:36.720 This episode is brought to you by Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub. 00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:38.200 Starting a business is hard. 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:42.980 But by some estimates, over 90% of startups will go out of business in the first year. 00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:43.400 Ouch. 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:51.820 With this in mind, Microsoft for Startups set out to understand what startups need to be successful and create a digital platform to help overcome those challenges. 00:20:52.620 --> 00:20:55.160 Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub was born. 00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:02.240 Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub provides all founders at any stage with free resources to help solve startup challenges. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:11.060 The platform provides technology benefits, access to expert guidance and skilling resources, mentorship and network connections, and much more. 00:21:11.420 --> 00:21:20.040 Unlike others in the industry, Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub does not require startups to be investor-backed or third-party validated to participate. 00:21:20.040 --> 00:21:21.840 It is truly open to all. 00:21:21.840 --> 00:21:22.720 So what do you get? 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:30.120 You can speed up development with free access to GitHub and the Microsoft Cloud with the ability to unlock credits over time. 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:41.540 To help with your startup and to help innovate, Founders Hub is partnering with innovative companies like OpenAI, a global leader in AI research and development, to provide exclusive benefits and discounts. 00:21:41.540 --> 00:21:45.500 Through Founders Hub, becoming a founder is no longer about who you know. 00:21:45.500 --> 00:22:00.420 You'll have access to their mentorship network, giving you access to a pool of hundreds of mentors across a range of disciplines, across areas like idea validation, fundraising, management, and coaching, sales and marketing, as well as specific technical stress points. 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:07.660 You'll be able to book a one-on-one meeting with the mentors, many of whom are former founders themselves. 00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:13.820 Make your ideas a reality today with the critical support you'll get from Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub. 00:22:13.820 --> 00:22:21.220 To join the program, visit pythonbytes.fm/foundershub 2022 or click the link in your show notes. 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:21.920 Indeed. 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.360 Thank you, Microsoft for Startups. 00:22:23.360 --> 00:22:26.320 Let's move over here. 00:22:26.320 --> 00:22:31.800 So this next one comes to us from several folks recommending it. 00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:36.420 And to be honest, I'm not sure if I would cover it if there wasn't a bunch of people said, hey, you should cover this. 00:22:36.420 --> 00:22:36.980 This is really interesting. 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.700 So I'll sort of take their lead and say, this does look pretty interesting. 00:22:40.700 --> 00:22:46.560 So Jeff Hutchins and Abdulaziz Al-Skwasim sent this in. 00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:47.820 Thank you both for sending. 00:22:47.820 --> 00:22:50.380 And this is the CodeOn Python compiler. 00:22:50.380 --> 00:22:51.420 Have you heard about this, Brian? 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:54.540 Just from people submitting it. 00:22:54.540 --> 00:22:55.400 Yeah. 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:59.360 And people talk about Python performance all the time. 00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:03.280 Sometimes, I would say most of the time, it doesn't really matter to you. 00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:08.760 Most of the time, you're spending way more time waiting on a network, waiting on an API call, waiting on a database. 00:23:08.760 --> 00:23:11.300 But sometimes, it really does matter. 00:23:11.300 --> 00:23:13.200 And you need your code to go faster, right? 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:25.500 So traditional options have included things like Numba or Cython or even PyPy, P-Y, P-Y for the JIT compiled version of Python. 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:31.440 So here's one more thing to put into that category of options called CodeOn from ExaLoop. 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:37.840 And it's a high-performance, zero-overhead, extensible Python compiler using LLVM. 00:23:37.840 --> 00:23:45.320 And LLVM is one of the compilers that gets used all the time, of course, for a bunch of different things. 00:23:45.560 --> 00:23:53.740 And they claim that it is on the order of 10 to 100 times or more faster than regular Python for single-core performance. 00:23:53.740 --> 00:23:57.420 And because it really compiles to some native code. 00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:01.680 They say also, by the way, sometimes better than C++ in terms of performance. 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:09.400 But it also, because it compiles to some native representation, it doesn't involve the GIL, so you also get better scaling. 00:24:09.620 --> 00:24:18.300 And it comes out of this, I think, genetics project called SEC, bioinformatics, rather, which is this language for bioinformatics. 00:24:18.300 --> 00:24:24.100 And I think what they've decided is like, you know, let's just go and just do straight Python, right? 00:24:24.100 --> 00:24:30.300 And if you go to exaLoop.io, they've got a couple of sort of selling points here. 00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:32.380 Performance, I see, is a Python. 00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:36.380 It adopts Python syntax and is fully interoperable with Python. 00:24:36.820 --> 00:24:40.480 And they've got this little flow graphic type thing. 00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:41.740 Shows your Python code. 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:45.000 And if you look, it's not even type annotated, which kind of surprised me, Brian. 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.500 I figured they would at least require you add, you know, Python type ints. 00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:48.940 Yeah. 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:49.560 But no. 00:24:49.560 --> 00:24:53.440 It says you take Python syntax and semantics and you feed it in. 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.040 It builds up an abstract syntax tree. 00:24:56.040 --> 00:25:01.360 It does some kind of type inference to figure out what the types are, like ints. 00:25:01.360 --> 00:25:06.640 Comes up with an intermediate representation and then applies a bunch of JIT style optimization. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.120 And domain specific optimizations and outcomes. 00:25:10.120 --> 00:25:11.100 Pretty interesting. 00:25:11.100 --> 00:25:14.120 Native code, as I said, but also, where does this show? 00:25:14.120 --> 00:25:16.440 I guess it doesn't have a better picture because it's cut off here. 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:21.380 Outcomes, native code, but also WebAssembly and GPU targeted code. 00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:21.980 That's cool. 00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:22.280 Think about that. 00:25:22.280 --> 00:25:23.620 You want to write some code? 00:25:23.620 --> 00:25:26.360 This Python code does matrix stuff. 00:25:26.360 --> 00:25:32.700 I want it to run on my NVIDIA GPU, you know, --GPU or whatever the thing you do to make it come out with that. 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.160 It's pretty, pretty wild. 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.080 Or put it on the web with WebAssembly. 00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:38.240 It sounds great. 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:39.180 It does sound great. 00:25:39.560 --> 00:25:41.180 So they've got some examples. 00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:47.520 It says we're going to have a list of fruits, just three strings, banana, apple, and lime, and some prices. 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:50.500 In the dictionary, banana has a price, apple has a price. 00:25:50.500 --> 00:25:53.880 And it says we're going to write standard for fruit in fruits. 00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:56.160 F string, print out the price of the fruit. 00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:02.500 And then it's going to put a bunch of stuff in the cart by doing list, multiplication, and addition, like you would expect. 00:26:02.660 --> 00:26:05.060 Call the sum with a comprehension and print it out. 00:26:05.060 --> 00:26:06.420 And then, boom, no problem. 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:08.580 Compile that to native code if you want. 00:26:08.580 --> 00:26:09.140 Okay. 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:11.520 It says if you know Python, there's nothing to learn. 00:26:11.520 --> 00:26:13.860 Yeah, it's a bunch of... 00:26:13.860 --> 00:26:14.100 Yeah, go ahead. 00:26:14.100 --> 00:26:16.260 The question is, which Python? 00:26:16.260 --> 00:26:19.340 It says Python syntax, but which Python syntax? 00:26:19.340 --> 00:26:22.340 Is it 3.10, 3.9, 3.11? 00:26:22.340 --> 00:26:27.300 It's not clear other than 3.6 or above because of the f-strings. 00:26:27.300 --> 00:26:29.560 The only giveaway I see here. 00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:36.260 And possibly lots of people are fine with not exactly knowing which version of the syntax. 00:26:36.260 --> 00:26:38.000 Yeah, it didn't say. 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.780 I mean, maybe if you go into the docs, it'll exactly say right, but not on the little landing page. 00:26:41.780 --> 00:26:47.720 It was initially dissolved to solve computing challenges in genomics, which it's so focused on. 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:56.760 Also, it's got a bunch of stuff focused on finance and GPUs for CUDA programming, as well as WebAssembly, which is pretty dope. 00:26:56.760 --> 00:26:57.220 Yeah. 00:26:57.220 --> 00:26:59.760 Also, if you scroll down a little bit, there's a little video. 00:27:00.120 --> 00:27:01.200 Let me, I'll hit, tell it to go. 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:02.020 There's a video. 00:27:02.020 --> 00:27:02.820 I'll tell it to stop. 00:27:02.820 --> 00:27:03.140 I don't know. 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:09.240 Where they show it running as a kernel in Jupyter Notebooks. 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:10.020 Oh, wow. 00:27:10.020 --> 00:27:19.760 Just doing standard Python stuff with kind of mass intensive things and then pulling in matplotlib and showing the various things you get with matplotlib. 00:27:20.140 --> 00:27:21.620 So, yeah, it looks pretty good. 00:27:21.620 --> 00:27:22.640 So, what do you think? 00:27:23.300 --> 00:27:28.800 I think even if it, I'd like to know what version of Python it's compatible with, but other than that, it looks fun. 00:27:28.800 --> 00:27:30.700 It looks really good. 00:27:30.700 --> 00:27:31.740 It's on GitHub. 00:27:32.260 --> 00:27:36.140 And so, it is technically at least source open. 00:27:36.140 --> 00:27:37.140 What is the license here? 00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:40.040 The license is a business source license. 00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:41.440 What the heck is a business source license? 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:42.200 Okay. 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:43.900 From MariaDB Corp. 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:45.020 Yeah. 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:47.320 I'm going to have to figure out what the business source license is. 00:27:47.320 --> 00:27:47.960 I don't know. 00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:51.520 You can read the source, but it's hard. 00:27:51.520 --> 00:27:52.000 I don't know. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.400 That's what I said. 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.220 Is it source open or is it not? 00:27:54.220 --> 00:27:54.760 Yeah. 00:27:54.760 --> 00:27:56.920 And so, all this stuff is good. 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:04.560 And the reason I'm hesitant to recommend it, but I think these benefits are really big and, you know, people can use it, then great. 00:28:04.560 --> 00:28:07.220 You go a little further, it says ExalupinU. 00:28:07.220 --> 00:28:09.240 This is free for non-production use. 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:13.520 If you want to use it for things that are commercial, then do you know what it costs? 00:28:13.520 --> 00:28:14.340 Don't know. 00:28:14.340 --> 00:28:15.100 Contact us. 00:28:15.100 --> 00:28:16.120 I don't know either. 00:28:16.120 --> 00:28:18.640 If you got to ask, it's too much for you. 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:20.860 Let's just put it there. 00:28:20.860 --> 00:28:22.440 That's what my dad always said. 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:24.160 If you got to ask, you can't afford it. 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.400 Exactly. 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.560 Which, I don't know. 00:28:27.560 --> 00:28:29.940 I'm not against them charging for it. 00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.960 I understand that this is probably an insane amount of work to put together. 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.480 If that's their model, that's their prerogative and it's fine. 00:28:36.760 --> 00:28:39.080 I don't think everything has to be given away free. 00:28:39.080 --> 00:28:41.000 There's tons of work that goes into a lot of stuff. 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.700 And sometimes charging for it is the right answer. 00:28:43.700 --> 00:28:45.800 But just tell people what it costs. 00:28:45.800 --> 00:28:47.760 You know, don't make them email you. 00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:49.220 That is really not good. 00:28:49.220 --> 00:28:54.280 So, Robert mentioned, Robert Robinson, maybe it's a sliding scale. 00:28:54.280 --> 00:28:56.580 And it's like, it depends on who's asking. 00:28:56.580 --> 00:28:59.880 You know, Microsoft calls up and asks. 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:00.900 It's a different price. 00:29:00.900 --> 00:29:03.120 I'm sure it is a different price. 00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:06.680 And I'm sure that's, oh, do you want to run it on all of Azure? 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:07.920 Well, here's the price. 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:10.560 But, you know, put some common cases in there. 00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:13.840 Are you a data scientist and you want to use it for an API? 00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:14.900 Here's what it costs. 00:29:14.900 --> 00:29:17.220 Are you trying to host it as a server? 00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:21.220 Well, here, like, then maybe you need to, like, there should be at least a little bit of a, 00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:24.780 here's the realm of where you start, right? 00:29:24.780 --> 00:29:27.460 A lot of things have, you know, here's the base price. 00:29:27.460 --> 00:29:28.620 Here's the pro price. 00:29:28.620 --> 00:29:30.140 Here's the enterprise price. 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.040 And here's the contact us if that doesn't fit you, right? 00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:36.360 But to say it costs money and we won't tell you what it costs. 00:29:36.360 --> 00:29:37.020 I don't know. 00:29:37.020 --> 00:29:39.040 It just sounds not great. 00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:46.320 And I hope people, so the free non-production, non-commercial versus commercial, that's still a fuzzy line. 00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:48.460 And I wish there was, like, more detail. 00:29:48.460 --> 00:29:49.820 Whenever anybody does that. 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:55.500 Because I've been in situations a lot where I'm just some dude writing a script in a company. 00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:56.520 And the company's big. 00:29:56.520 --> 00:29:58.760 But I just want to get this thing to work. 00:29:58.760 --> 00:30:01.660 And it's just a small piece of my build chain or something. 00:30:01.660 --> 00:30:08.180 I'm not going to get okay to do a corporate license for something just to save me five minutes a day. 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:09.100 Yeah. 00:30:09.100 --> 00:30:10.820 Maybe you're not selling it, right? 00:30:10.820 --> 00:30:11.420 Yeah. 00:30:11.420 --> 00:30:11.920 For example. 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.760 Yeah. 00:30:12.760 --> 00:30:13.840 That's another thing. 00:30:13.840 --> 00:30:15.620 Is it part of the thing I'm selling? 00:30:15.620 --> 00:30:18.640 Or is it just part of my work to get something else done? 00:30:19.500 --> 00:30:19.980 Yep. 00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:20.900 Indeed. 00:30:20.900 --> 00:30:23.300 So anyway, pluses and minuses. 00:30:23.300 --> 00:30:25.620 But it's an interesting contribution. 00:30:25.620 --> 00:30:27.580 And thanks, folks, for sending that in. 00:30:27.580 --> 00:30:28.100 Definitely. 00:30:28.100 --> 00:30:28.680 Indeed. 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:31.620 Well, so I want to talk about type hints a little bit. 00:30:31.620 --> 00:30:33.140 I've been thinking about type hints a lot. 00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:39.360 And ran across this article called Eight Levels of Using Type Hints in Python. 00:30:39.360 --> 00:30:42.160 And it's from Yong Cho. 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.700 And first off, I love the graphic. 00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:46.640 This is an Unsplash graphic. 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:49.420 But I'm kind of a fan of it. 00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:56.740 It looks like posters, like band posters or something like that on something. 00:30:56.740 --> 00:30:58.520 And half of them are peeled off. 00:30:58.520 --> 00:31:01.160 So cool image. 00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:01.460 Anyway. 00:31:01.460 --> 00:31:01.860 Yeah. 00:31:01.860 --> 00:31:03.020 Complete side note. 00:31:04.360 --> 00:31:08.280 So I was attracted to this because this eight stage. 00:31:08.280 --> 00:31:11.920 I kind of thought of it as like eight stages of using type hints. 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.020 Because that's kind of how I started using type hints. 00:31:15.020 --> 00:31:17.500 And it almost got the order the same. 00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:19.380 So let's go through these orders. 00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:22.440 So the first one is, did I skip over it? 00:31:23.060 --> 00:31:26.800 The first was type hints for basic data types. 00:31:26.800 --> 00:31:31.580 So basically, you kind of do this if you're using data classes at all. 00:31:31.580 --> 00:31:35.320 You just say, well, I've got my age as an int. 00:31:35.320 --> 00:31:37.380 And it defaults to 29. 00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.820 Just to kind of tell people what you're thinking about. 00:31:40.820 --> 00:31:45.260 And while you're, you know, my hosts are a tuple. 00:31:45.260 --> 00:31:48.060 And they default to an empty tuple or something. 00:31:48.060 --> 00:31:51.640 So this is pretty much how I started as well. 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:55.120 And I started mostly because I started using type data classes. 00:31:55.120 --> 00:32:00.720 And this is what they look like when you're declaring the contents of a data class. 00:32:02.180 --> 00:32:03.840 And then, so where do you go from there? 00:32:03.840 --> 00:32:09.920 The next stage is defining a constant using final type. 00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:11.600 Actually, I've never used this. 00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:12.780 Have you ever used final? 00:32:12.780 --> 00:32:15.000 I've wanted to use it. 00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:20.160 But it's so not exactly enforced type of thing. 00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:26.260 It's like, I would love to have a constant in Python. 00:32:26.260 --> 00:32:30.580 But doing it through typing means the only time it's going to be validated or checked 00:32:30.580 --> 00:32:32.260 is if I run mypy or something. 00:32:32.260 --> 00:32:33.920 And most of the time, I'm not. 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:36.540 So it's like, well, okay, whatever. 00:32:36.540 --> 00:32:36.980 I'm not saying. 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:37.340 Yeah. 00:32:37.340 --> 00:32:43.960 I'm actually increasing the amount of times I'm using mypy or other type checking things. 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.460 But yeah, I wouldn't have put this number two. 00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:47.520 But minor gripe. 00:32:47.520 --> 00:32:48.420 It's kind of a cool feature. 00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:49.620 It is a cool feature, though. 00:32:49.620 --> 00:32:49.780 Yeah. 00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:52.020 I don't knock its existence. 00:32:52.020 --> 00:32:54.880 I just wish it was more supported in the language. 00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:55.480 Yeah. 00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:00.380 The third is adding multiple type hints to one variable. 00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:03.860 Like it shows here a couple different ways. 00:33:03.860 --> 00:33:08.580 The union of an int and a float or the bar of int and float. 00:33:08.580 --> 00:33:14.880 And the number one way I use this, I mean, I use things like this also. 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.180 Like it could be an int or a float. 00:33:16.180 --> 00:33:23.820 But I mostly use it for like int or none or something or none because I've got a default 00:33:23.820 --> 00:33:24.780 value of none. 00:33:24.780 --> 00:33:28.000 And I kind of wish there was another way to do it. 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.380 Because when you have a, I don't know, it's kind of convenient anyway. 00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:36.980 But like let's say I've got a parameter to a function and it defaults when I internally 00:33:36.980 --> 00:33:40.460 I assign it, it defaults to none if nobody passes anything in. 00:33:40.660 --> 00:33:44.140 But I also don't really want somebody to pass none in, you know? 00:33:44.140 --> 00:33:50.820 So I wish there was a like the default is none, but users can't pass in none or something 00:33:50.820 --> 00:33:51.420 like that. 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:52.720 Yeah. 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:54.100 But anyway, it works. 00:33:54.100 --> 00:33:59.600 And in the end, it helps with testing anyway to be able to pass in all the types. 00:33:59.600 --> 00:34:03.880 But so yeah, and I've totally switched to the bar thing. 00:34:04.020 --> 00:34:06.140 I think it was 310 that added that. 00:34:06.140 --> 00:34:06.720 Do you remember? 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:07.900 I think it was 310. 00:34:07.900 --> 00:34:08.780 I think it was 310. 00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:09.040 Yeah. 00:34:09.040 --> 00:34:09.520 It says right here. 00:34:09.520 --> 00:34:10.380 It even says there. 00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:10.600 Yeah. 00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:10.900 Uh-huh. 00:34:10.900 --> 00:34:11.180 Yeah. 00:34:11.180 --> 00:34:16.480 So anything I'm writing, I support 310 and above because I like the bar. 00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:23.900 The next thing is using general type hints, which also this is, yeah, I think now we're starting 00:34:23.900 --> 00:34:28.260 to increase the stage of understanding of how type hints can help you. 00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:35.560 And the notion, like in the example, they use iterable as, you know, from typing import 00:34:35.560 --> 00:34:35.980 iterable. 00:34:35.980 --> 00:34:41.060 So you say that, you know, I'm accepting something like numbers and it takes an iterable. 00:34:41.060 --> 00:34:43.100 I love this use. 00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:46.760 And I, you know, it takes a little bit more of advanced use. 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:48.680 You get a little more comfortable with type hints. 00:34:48.680 --> 00:34:54.780 And to be able to say, I'm going to do iteration like 4in and nums, it doesn't really matter what 00:34:54.780 --> 00:35:00.640 it is, if it's a list or a tuple or something else, as long as I can iterate over it, it's 00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:00.940 good. 00:35:00.940 --> 00:35:07.500 So, and the other thing is probably, and I'm not sure why they didn't put, is optional, but 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:13.400 along the same as iterable, I like, I'm going to often say it's iterable, but the type inside 00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:16.560 is an int or something like that. 00:35:16.560 --> 00:35:17.760 But anyway. 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:18.340 Right. 00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:22.880 The fifth one is a little bracket int or something like a whole bracket string so you know what 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:23.280 you get out. 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:23.480 Yeah. 00:35:23.860 --> 00:35:26.340 The fifth is a type hints for functions. 00:35:26.340 --> 00:35:30.340 And I probably would have put this as like number two because I started using this right 00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:38.100 away of, yeah, to say, because it's, that's one of the things that's hard with when I came 00:35:38.100 --> 00:35:43.760 to Python from C++ is knowing like, where do I put the return value? 00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:49.500 Like the return type is, is, you know, maybe, maybe it's multiple return types, which I don't 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:50.400 really want it to be. 00:35:50.720 --> 00:35:54.900 But, but it's nice to be able to see what the return type is and type hints add that 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:56.700 with, with type hints for functions. 00:35:56.700 --> 00:35:56.900 Right. 00:35:56.900 --> 00:36:00.940 Or you read a function, you know, like I want to call that, but what do I do? 00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:01.500 Yeah. 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:04.440 Do I have to read the function and try to understand it? 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:05.800 Or can I just read the definition? 00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:06.300 Right. 00:36:06.360 --> 00:36:08.360 I think this is one of the main uses, right? 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:08.500 Yeah. 00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:08.560 Yeah. 00:36:08.560 --> 00:36:08.760 Yeah. 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:15.260 And it's also nice to be able to see right there with a union type is, is not a possibility. 00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:19.880 Do I have to deal with nothing coming back as something is possible? 00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:22.340 Number six is alias for type hints. 00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:24.400 And I kind of love this. 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.120 I haven't been using this much, but I'm going to start using it more. 00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:31.720 Especially it says with in Python 310. 00:36:31.720 --> 00:36:37.220 So before Python 310, you had to do like from typing import type alias and have this weird 00:36:37.220 --> 00:36:38.900 syntax thing around it. 00:36:39.460 --> 00:36:41.380 But it's not really that weird. 00:36:41.380 --> 00:36:45.620 It's a, but the, after 310, you just sort of declare a thing. 00:36:45.620 --> 00:36:50.120 It says like post type posts type is a dict that goes from it to string. 00:36:50.120 --> 00:36:50.960 That's great. 00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:54.080 And then you can use that as a type hint or other places. 00:36:54.080 --> 00:36:55.540 So that's interesting. 00:36:55.540 --> 00:36:56.300 That's news to me. 00:36:56.300 --> 00:36:56.560 Yeah. 00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:57.200 That's really interesting. 00:36:57.200 --> 00:36:59.920 So definitely, I'll definitely start using that. 00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:01.500 So I'm glad I read the article for that. 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:07.780 Type hints for class for a class itself, which I'm not sure why it was titled this, but basically 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:08.940 it's the self type. 00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:15.280 And this is very helpful if you have a class, a class that has objects that refer to other 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.560 objects of the same type. 00:37:16.560 --> 00:37:19.180 I don't know how you did that before then. 00:37:19.180 --> 00:37:21.300 I guess I wasn't caring about it, but. 00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:24.880 You had to do as a hack or you put it into quotes. 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:29.980 So the example from this article is a class called list node, and it's going to be past the 00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:30.840 previous node, right? 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:32.160 So what is the type of that? 00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:33.380 Well, it should be a list node. 00:37:33.380 --> 00:37:33.920 Yeah. 00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.320 Python is in the process of building up the list node class. 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.680 So it doesn't yet know what it is. 00:37:38.680 --> 00:37:41.380 But you're trying to define a function that has that. 00:37:41.380 --> 00:37:43.340 So there's this weird patch 22 thing. 00:37:43.340 --> 00:37:43.780 Yeah. 00:37:43.780 --> 00:37:44.660 Chicken and egg thing. 00:37:44.660 --> 00:37:47.300 So what you put is you would put list node in quotes. 00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:48.460 That's the old version. 00:37:48.460 --> 00:37:50.320 And of course, it was just a string. 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.940 But then it's like, well, but it's a string that says that. 00:37:53.140 --> 00:37:55.640 So we're going to just guess that that's what you want. 00:37:55.640 --> 00:37:56.580 It was weird. 00:37:56.580 --> 00:37:57.140 Okay. 00:37:57.140 --> 00:38:01.580 Well, the eighth and final one is to provide literals for variables. 00:38:01.580 --> 00:38:04.440 And I haven't done this, but it's kind of nice also. 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:05.720 And I didn't know you could do this. 00:38:06.180 --> 00:38:10.660 Just to say, and in the example, it's from typing import literal. 00:38:10.660 --> 00:38:17.800 And then you define like a weekend that's a literal that can only be the strings Saturday 00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:18.620 or Sunday. 00:38:18.940 --> 00:38:21.200 And so this isn't an enumeration. 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:25.920 It's a it's just saying that it can only have these particular values. 00:38:26.120 --> 00:38:27.600 So I think I got that right. 00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:30.780 I don't think it has to be an enumeration, but no, no. 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.760 So this is in the end. 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:38.280 So like the example says, well, if you assign that variable to Monday, it's going to your 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:42.120 your type checkers are going to complain because you didn't assign the one of the known ones. 00:38:42.120 --> 00:38:48.440 And I probably would use this in conjunction with enums or maybe I don't have to with enums. 00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:49.160 I don't know. 00:38:49.160 --> 00:38:54.100 But but there's a lot of stuff that is passed around that it's kind of like an enum, but it's 00:38:54.100 --> 00:38:54.600 passed around. 00:38:54.600 --> 00:38:56.100 It's just a handful of strings that. 00:38:56.100 --> 00:38:57.420 It can only be one of these strings. 00:38:57.420 --> 00:38:59.660 So yeah, be nice for this to support it. 00:38:59.660 --> 00:39:04.940 Henry on the audience points out that X colon final equals true also maps to one of these 00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:06.400 literal checks. 00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:09.060 So is literal of true rather than just a bool. 00:39:09.060 --> 00:39:12.680 So the type checker can make sure it's always true, not true or false. 00:39:12.680 --> 00:39:15.480 So there's an interesting tie together of those as well. 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:18.620 And Robert points out that it sounds like a case of the Mondays. 00:39:18.620 --> 00:39:20.040 Oh, dear. 00:39:20.040 --> 00:39:24.920 And Henry mentions that last time I checked self was not supported by my pie. 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:26.640 But so we'll have to check on that. 00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.100 Yeah. 00:39:27.100 --> 00:39:28.740 Anybody from my pie listening? 00:39:28.740 --> 00:39:30.040 Let us know. 00:39:30.040 --> 00:39:30.740 Let us know. 00:39:30.740 --> 00:39:33.380 Well, that's it for for this. 00:39:33.380 --> 00:39:39.580 I just thought it was a good I and I do think this is a good idea is to to not try to jump 00:39:39.580 --> 00:39:41.360 in the deep end of type hints. 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:47.520 Try some of the simple stuff first and then you get to caring about it. 00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:48.340 Yeah. 00:39:48.340 --> 00:39:50.920 That was a good little discussion around it. 00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:51.360 That was fun. 00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:51.780 Yeah. 00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:52.440 All right. 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:54.080 Got any extras for us you want to throw out there? 00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:59.720 The only extra I wanted to bring up is the testing code hasn't had an episode since like 00:39:59.720 --> 00:40:00.820 October or something. 00:40:00.820 --> 00:40:02.460 And it's not dead. 00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:06.980 I just kind of wanted to take the holiday off without telling anybody. 00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:09.420 And it's coming back. 00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:11.860 So sometime in January, there will be a testing code episode. 00:40:11.860 --> 00:40:12.720 Oh, excellent. 00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:13.600 Looking forward to it. 00:40:13.600 --> 00:40:13.900 All right. 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:18.840 I have a few extras and one leads to another, which leads to another as is the nature of 00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.460 all these things. 00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:22.460 So I wrote I ran across a couple of articles. 00:40:22.460 --> 00:40:23.320 Let me start that way. 00:40:23.540 --> 00:40:28.640 that sort of talked about RSS and how RSS is actually kind of important as a foundation 00:40:28.640 --> 00:40:32.780 of the independent web and in ways maybe bigger than like I really realized. 00:40:32.780 --> 00:40:34.820 So there's this one called Back to RSS. 00:40:34.820 --> 00:40:36.580 I'll just read a little excerpt from each of them. 00:40:36.580 --> 00:40:39.920 It says it's 2023 or 1999 or whatever. 00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.020 Personal sites are back. 00:40:41.020 --> 00:40:41.720 Blogs are back. 00:40:41.720 --> 00:40:42.560 RSS is back. 00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:46.100 And owning your data is becoming real, which kind of a cool thing. 00:40:46.100 --> 00:40:51.340 And then also there's this one the same day on The Verge called Bring Back Personal 00:40:51.340 --> 00:40:51.860 Blogging. 00:40:52.540 --> 00:40:57.900 And yeah, anyway, so I ended up writing a welcome back RSS article that kind of riffed 00:40:57.900 --> 00:41:02.340 on those ideas and talked about some more, talked about Reader, which I talked about before 00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:03.020 and stuff. 00:41:03.020 --> 00:41:06.580 So yeah, anyway, people can go check out that article. 00:41:06.580 --> 00:41:07.540 And it's interesting. 00:41:07.540 --> 00:41:14.340 And as part of the conversation, I learned about Reader, as in reader.readthedocs.io, which 00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:17.300 is a reader is a Python feed reader library. 00:41:17.300 --> 00:41:22.520 So it does things like let you subscribe with Python to RSS and Adam and JSON feed. 00:41:22.520 --> 00:41:24.760 Mark articles as read and important. 00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:25.860 Filter them. 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:26.800 Get stats. 00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:27.960 Do all of it. 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:33.480 Like basically, if you wanted the logical internals of an RSS reader, here's a Python 00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:34.820 library to do that, which is cool. 00:41:34.820 --> 00:41:40.240 Now what we need to do is have a listener like take Reader and put a textual front end on it. 00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:41.320 So we have like... 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:43.780 Yes, actually, that's a pretty interesting idea. 00:41:43.780 --> 00:41:44.440 That'd be cool. 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:53.680 This guy over here built this thing called Kustos, which is basically like Instapaper, a self-hosted 00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:55.640 Python web app built on Reader. 00:41:55.640 --> 00:41:57.220 So people can check that out. 00:41:57.220 --> 00:41:59.500 And then Readwise looks really interesting. 00:41:59.500 --> 00:42:00.700 Are you familiar with Readwise? 00:42:00.700 --> 00:42:01.560 No. 00:42:01.560 --> 00:42:09.200 So it's like an RSS reader, but it also lets you take notes, mark stuff as read for later, 00:42:09.200 --> 00:42:14.060 even if it doesn't have an RSS feed and highlight like your research as you're going through it 00:42:14.060 --> 00:42:14.780 and save it. 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:18.800 So think how good that would be for people that say, dude, Hogcaster, you got to remember a 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.700 bunch of stuff about an article. 00:42:19.700 --> 00:42:23.020 Pull that thing back up and it's got your highlights and your notes on it. 00:42:23.020 --> 00:42:23.600 So... 00:42:23.600 --> 00:42:24.880 Oh, I'm liking this. 00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:25.880 I'm going to have to check it out. 00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:27.180 Yeah, that's looking pretty good. 00:42:27.180 --> 00:42:30.320 So anyway, all that stuff came from this little article that I wrote. 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:31.320 People can check that out. 00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:31.600 Nice. 00:42:31.600 --> 00:42:33.120 Another very important thing. 00:42:33.120 --> 00:42:39.900 There's this Mastodon account called Year Progress, and it just goes along. 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:45.940 And every day, it just hosts a progress bar for how far we are in the daily progress. 00:42:45.940 --> 00:42:53.440 So it's like a little ASCII, you know, TQDM style progress bar of the year. 00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.220 And it's just notable that we just had 100% progress for the year. 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:02.580 Now that we're done, it's reset to zero, but it was 100%. 00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:06.240 Actually, it looks like it doesn't actually do it every day, but it does it when it goes 00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:07.040 to a new percentage. 00:43:07.040 --> 00:43:09.480 So it's every few days or two or three days, right? 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:09.960 Yeah. 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:10.240 Yeah. 00:43:10.240 --> 00:43:12.300 It looks like it, which I guess is probably good. 00:43:12.300 --> 00:43:14.300 I mean, thank you for not doing it. 00:43:14.300 --> 00:43:18.660 It's like saving 3.6, 2.6 posts, something like that. 00:43:18.660 --> 00:43:18.920 Yeah. 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:19.900 All right. 00:43:19.900 --> 00:43:21.480 And don't just watch it. 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.220 Wait for it. 00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:24.680 It's not that exciting. 00:43:24.680 --> 00:43:25.920 It doesn't actually that often. 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.420 It has no decimal point. 00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:31.780 So it's got to work in big ASCII blocks. 00:43:31.780 --> 00:43:32.720 So it does what it does. 00:43:32.720 --> 00:43:33.140 All right. 00:43:33.140 --> 00:43:39.180 This is something that people might want to keep an eye out who had automated builds running 00:43:39.180 --> 00:43:42.500 over the winter break and also used PyTorch. 00:43:42.700 --> 00:43:47.400 So one of the thoughts I had was I was just kind of kicking back. 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:47.920 We were hanging around. 00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:50.980 I'm like, you know, I'm going to work on some of these little weird projects. 00:43:50.980 --> 00:43:55.380 I'd like the login page on Talk Python training to just be a little smoother and cleaner. 00:43:55.380 --> 00:43:56.700 Maybe I'll just go play with that. 00:43:56.700 --> 00:44:00.440 I'm not really going to do real work, but it'd be kind of fun to do some web design and just 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:02.860 sort of like no pressure, redesign that a little bit. 00:44:02.860 --> 00:44:07.900 And I thought, but I'm going to be careful about adding new libraries, updating existing 00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:13.040 ones like pip-tools style, update them because is anybody watching? 00:44:13.040 --> 00:44:15.760 And if something bad got in there, would anybody know? 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:16.680 Are they all on break? 00:44:16.680 --> 00:44:17.080 Right. 00:44:17.080 --> 00:44:20.920 Well, it turns out my paranoid side was on to something. 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:25.980 Luckily, not anything I was using, but PyTorch discloses malicious dependency chain compromise 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:26.940 over the holidays. 00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:28.900 This is bad. 00:44:28.900 --> 00:44:35.600 If you pip installed somehow the PyTorch stuff, I don't know the exact how it links together, 00:44:35.600 --> 00:44:40.700 but it says PyTorch has identified a malicious dependency with the same name as the frameworks 00:44:40.700 --> 00:44:42.320 Torch Triton library. 00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:49.420 So that was like somehow shipped or directly linked in PyTorch in a way that I don't fully 00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:50.620 understand because I don't use it. 00:44:50.620 --> 00:44:59.060 But what happened is on Merry, Merry Christmas, on December 25th, users who installed PyTorch 00:44:59.060 --> 00:45:03.480 nightly should ensure their systems are not compromised because of this Triton torch. 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:07.260 What they did is somebody put a malicious version on PyPI. 00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:12.620 And when PyTorch was getting set up, instead of picking its own version, it preferred the 00:45:12.620 --> 00:45:14.800 PyPI version, which was a virus. 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:17.540 So anyway, people can check that out. 00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:19.220 It's sub-ideal. 00:45:19.220 --> 00:45:24.460 Since the PyPI index takes precedence, this malicious package was being installed instead 00:45:24.460 --> 00:45:26.260 of the version from the official repository. 00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:30.060 This enables somebody to register a package to do bad things. 00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:31.700 Anyway, people can read all about that. 00:45:31.700 --> 00:45:36.160 But if you have PyTorch and you pip installed it over the point of break, read that. 00:45:36.160 --> 00:45:36.700 Yeah. 00:45:36.700 --> 00:45:41.500 Plus, you know, kudos for them for coming up with a great domain name, bleepingcomputer.com. 00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:42.560 Yes, I know, bleepingcomputer. 00:45:42.560 --> 00:45:44.900 There's a lot of good articles on bleepingcomputer. 00:45:44.900 --> 00:45:46.380 It's in my RSS feed. 00:45:47.700 --> 00:45:48.260 All right. 00:45:48.260 --> 00:45:49.560 Well, that's all I got for extras. 00:45:49.560 --> 00:45:50.460 How about a joke? 00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:51.580 Yeah, it sounds great. 00:45:51.580 --> 00:45:56.620 So first of all, let me, I don't want to kill the punchline before we set the stage. 00:45:56.620 --> 00:45:56.900 Okay. 00:45:56.900 --> 00:45:58.300 So I pulled up just the picture. 00:45:58.300 --> 00:46:00.960 Can you tell people what this is on the screen, Brian? 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:01.920 You remember these things? 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.340 Well, remember, they're still there. 00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:06.180 Not on my laptop. 00:46:06.180 --> 00:46:07.680 Not on my Mac mini. 00:46:08.020 --> 00:46:10.680 It's on the back of like a computer or something. 00:46:10.680 --> 00:46:12.720 A desktop computer. 00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:17.080 Next to the power cord, there's a toggle switch with a on and off. 00:46:17.080 --> 00:46:18.440 It's on and off toggle switch. 00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:18.960 Right. 00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:24.340 It's like a physical power button directly on the power supply on a desktop computer, right? 00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:24.840 Yep. 00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:25.400 Yeah. 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:27.380 And Robert got it exactly right. 00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:28.440 So here is the joke. 00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:30.540 They finally made a switch to exit Vim. 00:46:30.540 --> 00:46:37.660 And they've highlighted that physical power button on the back of the power supply. 00:46:38.620 --> 00:46:39.100 Nice. 00:46:39.100 --> 00:46:41.200 You're a Vim lover. 00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:44.100 So I won't rub it in too much. 00:46:44.100 --> 00:46:45.700 But that's a pretty effective way to exit Vim. 00:46:45.700 --> 00:46:47.620 Vim runs in a window. 00:46:47.620 --> 00:46:48.980 So just close the window. 00:46:48.980 --> 00:46:50.240 You know, whatever. 00:46:50.240 --> 00:46:55.460 The funny thing about power switches. 00:46:55.460 --> 00:47:00.300 So I used to work with a lot of embedded systems. 00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:02.520 And some of them run Windows embedded. 00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:10.020 And embedded systems are supposed to be able to toggle the power off, just like from the power supply. 00:47:10.020 --> 00:47:10.140 Yeah. 00:47:10.140 --> 00:47:10.460 Yeah. 00:47:10.460 --> 00:47:17.380 And now normal Windows, you're not supposed to do that because, you know, you want to let it shut down gracefully. 00:47:17.580 --> 00:47:24.460 And if the disk is moving at the time, and there's even with Windows embedded, there's some issues or any embedded operating system. 00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:31.000 There are a possibility you could do some damage to the disk if you power off at exactly the right time. 00:47:31.100 --> 00:47:34.220 But there's supposed to be safeguards in place to take care of it. 00:47:34.220 --> 00:47:38.980 So I'm just in the habit of using these things all the time of, like, toggle off and on. 00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:48.060 And if we get, like, a new batch of people in that are mostly from DevOps or from non-embedded worlds, they're like, what are you doing? 00:47:48.060 --> 00:47:49.100 You're going to break it? 00:47:49.100 --> 00:47:50.240 Yeah, you're going to break it. 00:47:50.240 --> 00:47:51.920 Like, no, these are good. 00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:52.820 Yeah. 00:47:52.820 --> 00:47:54.320 That's awesome. 00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.720 Yeah, my little circuit Python thing. 00:47:56.720 --> 00:47:57.880 It doesn't have a power switch. 00:47:58.080 --> 00:48:00.660 You just disconnect it from power if you want it off. 00:48:00.660 --> 00:48:02.380 That's how it works. 00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:11.700 Well, and one of the reasons, now I'm going in the weeds, but one of the reasons for the need for the ability to just power off is because a lot of times instruments are in a huge rack. 00:48:11.700 --> 00:48:14.880 And you don't go through and power off each individual instrument. 00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:16.220 You just turn the rack off. 00:48:16.220 --> 00:48:18.240 Wow, interesting. 00:48:18.240 --> 00:48:18.840 Cool. 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:21.540 Well, it's good to be back in 2023. 00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:23.820 Yeah, it is good to be back. 00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:24.960 So welcome back. 00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:28.520 And thanks, everybody, for tuning in. 00:48:28.520 --> 00:48:29.480 Yeah, you bet. 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:30.160 Bye, all.