WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.720 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:10.960 This is episode 322, recorded February 7th, 2023. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:12.280 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:13.800 I'm Calvin Hendryx-Parker. 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:15.760 Welcome, Calvin. Awesome to have you here. 00:00:15.760 --> 00:00:18.500 I'm excited to be back. I love it's kind of my annual retreat. 00:00:18.500 --> 00:00:23.580 That's right. That's right. Your annual drop-in to share all your ideas with us. 00:00:23.580 --> 00:00:25.640 You got some good ones to talk about, I know. 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:30.700 Also want to say thank you to Microsoft for Startups Founders Hub for sponsoring this episode. 00:00:30.700 --> 00:00:37.860 If you want to connect with any of us, me, Brian, Calvin, or even just the show, you can find us over on Fastedon. 00:00:37.860 --> 00:00:41.480 We're all over there, actually, on Mastodon, so you can find the links in the show notes. 00:00:41.480 --> 00:00:46.600 And if you're listening but not watching, just go to pythonby.fm.com slash stream slash live, 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.820 where we will be streaming live every Tuesday, usually. 00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:52.980 But you can definitely subscribe to get notified there. 00:00:53.140 --> 00:00:56.760 Calvin, I know you've been here before, multiple times. 00:00:56.760 --> 00:01:01.560 You always come to put us to shame with your fancy camera that you got going. 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:02.080 We love it. 00:01:02.080 --> 00:01:06.400 Tell people who maybe haven't heard about you or met you before who you are. 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.380 Sure. So I'm Calvin Hendryx-Parker. 00:01:08.380 --> 00:01:10.480 I'm co-founder and CTO of Six Feet Up. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:15.940 We are a software development company that helps digital leaders transform their impact. 00:01:15.940 --> 00:01:19.220 We do a lot of interesting work now around impactful projects. 00:01:19.220 --> 00:01:22.240 So it's like climate change, making the world a better place. 00:01:22.240 --> 00:01:24.980 In addition, I've started a couple of communities. 00:01:24.980 --> 00:01:27.240 So the IndiePy community here, local Indianapolis. 00:01:27.240 --> 00:01:33.240 And then we kind of branched out from that into some little local conferences into now Python Web Conference. 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:38.040 So that's probably the big thing you'll hear from me at least this month and next month. 00:01:38.300 --> 00:01:39.980 Yeah, we'll talk about that at the end of the show. 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:41.460 But that's an amazing conference. 00:01:41.460 --> 00:01:47.700 You have, I would say, potentially more talks or on par as many talks as US PyCon. 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:49.580 It's really a lot going on there. 00:01:49.580 --> 00:01:51.500 Last year, there were almost too many. 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:52.800 Like, it was so good. 00:01:52.800 --> 00:01:54.140 I just kept saying yes to everybody. 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:56.640 This year, we pulled back a little bit. 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:58.420 We had more submissions. 00:01:58.420 --> 00:01:59.280 We'll talk about this later. 00:01:59.360 --> 00:02:00.940 But it was really hard to choose. 00:02:00.940 --> 00:02:03.920 Yeah, it's tough to say no to deserving people. 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:05.200 But it's so much talent. 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:06.320 So many great people. 00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:07.180 Indeed. 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:09.060 All right, Brian, kick us off. 00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:12.600 I just wanted to talk about packaging today a little bit. 00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:14.540 I've got, I'm splitting it up into two segments. 00:02:14.540 --> 00:02:22.140 But I really want to focus on right now on the PyPA has a packaging Python projects tutorial page. 00:02:22.140 --> 00:02:25.240 It's linked in the show notes, of course. 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:29.340 But I think this is a good, it's really pretty good, well written. 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:31.600 And so I want to point people in this direction. 00:02:31.600 --> 00:02:37.080 If you want to share your Python code with somebody else, packaging it is the right way to go, I think. 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:43.660 And this tutorial walks through, it's not necessarily trivial to do it. 00:02:43.660 --> 00:02:47.420 So, and it, I wish it was easier, but it, it's not bad. 00:02:47.420 --> 00:02:52.700 So it walks through what you, you know, walks through setting up your directory structure. 00:02:52.700 --> 00:02:56.480 It's, and then you have to have some package files with it. 00:02:56.480 --> 00:03:01.260 You've got to have a license file and a pyproject.toml now and a readme. 00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:05.040 And then it talks about your source directory and your test directory. 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:07.040 So you've got the directory set up. 00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:10.300 I know you're a fan of the source directory for packages. 00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:11.220 It looks like. 00:03:11.220 --> 00:03:12.100 Yeah. 00:03:12.320 --> 00:03:13.760 Exactly. 00:03:13.760 --> 00:03:17.040 Your philosophy is winning out here is the official recommendation. 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.800 Yeah. 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:21.960 And I mostly, I used to have good reasons behind it. 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:27.880 Now I just like having the top level stuff, just be packaging and having the actual source 00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:29.720 code be somewhere else in the source directory. 00:03:29.720 --> 00:03:33.720 So it just, it's a, it's a, while you're developing, it's, it's nicer. 00:03:33.720 --> 00:03:36.780 If you have a single that there is like caveats though. 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:41.440 If you have a single file that you're just sharing, that might seem like overkill. 00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:46.440 And I, I, I, I'm fine with, of course, I have packages as well that are single file that 00:03:46.440 --> 00:03:47.440 I don't do this with. 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:51.900 So you don't have to, but most things, most projects are going to have more than one file 00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:53.360 if you're sharing it. 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:54.940 So there's this. 00:03:54.940 --> 00:03:56.440 So, and then what do you put in it? 00:03:56.440 --> 00:04:01.940 So it talks about what you put in the different things in the PyProject.toml and a little 00:04:01.940 --> 00:04:03.800 bit into the readme and some of the metadata. 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:10.260 The, one of the things we're going to jump into a little bit later in the show is that 00:04:10.260 --> 00:04:13.720 there are lots of options for what build backend you use. 00:04:14.440 --> 00:04:20.740 This, this project itself, or this document talks about hatchling, setup tools, FLIT and 00:04:20.740 --> 00:04:21.440 PDM. 00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:26.380 And they, neither of them look that different and they kind of do the same thing, but you 00:04:26.380 --> 00:04:28.160 can have different metadata that goes with it. 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:33.360 So that's, I think both a good thing that we have options and a bad thing that some people 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:34.700 don't know how to choose. 00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:39.120 So is it really tough to like, know why should you do it? 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:42.740 Maybe setup tools probably shouldn't be the choice. 00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:46.160 I don't feel like that you're kind of moving a little bit away from that, but yeah. 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:47.300 The history here is so deep. 00:04:47.300 --> 00:04:52.500 Like, I feel like there's like a whole day, a whole college course you could give on why 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:53.880 these things are the way they are now. 00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:54.340 Yeah. 00:04:54.340 --> 00:04:55.320 Yeah. 00:04:55.320 --> 00:05:00.880 So the, in it, the project, the tutorial goes down into even distributing. 00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:09.020 So all the way down to recommending that you use Twine to upload to the test repository, 00:05:09.020 --> 00:05:09.740 test by PI. 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:14.740 And you have to get a token and it's not trivial and all this sort of stuff. 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:19.260 So it's a little, it's still a little daunting, but this will walk through, walk you through 00:05:19.260 --> 00:05:20.340 the, all the steps. 00:05:20.340 --> 00:05:22.420 I have a personal opinion, of course. 00:05:22.420 --> 00:05:26.000 And my opinion is read this and then check out Flit. 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:31.040 Because for simple projects, Flit is, I think, still the easiest. 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:35.640 It replaces the build step with Flit build. 00:05:35.640 --> 00:05:40.120 And it replaces the creation of some of these files with Flit init. 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:44.260 And it replaces the Twine upload with just Flit publish. 00:05:44.260 --> 00:05:49.680 And I use it on a few projects and I haven't had reason to switch yet. 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:54.400 There's, it's not perfect, but it's pretty easy for small projects. 00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:57.940 So I would say read both of these if you want to share some Python code. 00:05:57.940 --> 00:05:58.340 So. 00:05:58.340 --> 00:05:59.200 Excellent. 00:05:59.200 --> 00:05:59.620 Yeah. 00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:00.500 Very good recommendation. 00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:03.760 And I think people need guidance here because there are so many choices. 00:06:03.760 --> 00:06:07.220 There's going to be a lot of conversation in the Python space around this actually. 00:06:07.220 --> 00:06:07.980 For sure. 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:08.580 Yep. 00:06:09.460 --> 00:06:10.120 All right. 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:11.920 Let's move on though for right now. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:14.380 Real time follow up here. 00:06:14.380 --> 00:06:20.780 As of about 30 minutes ago, OFEC, the creator of Hatch, and I are going to have a conversation 00:06:20.780 --> 00:06:22.260 March 1st on Talk Python. 00:06:22.260 --> 00:06:26.920 So if people want to hear more about Hatch, that's coming up in about three weeks or so. 00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:28.460 But what do I want to talk about? 00:06:28.460 --> 00:06:30.080 Something fun. 00:06:30.080 --> 00:06:32.100 Last time we had the Unreple. 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:33.980 This time we have the Untangle. 00:06:33.980 --> 00:06:39.260 So Untangle by ST Chris on GitHub. 00:06:39.260 --> 00:06:43.220 Converts XML to dynamic Python objects. 00:06:43.220 --> 00:06:47.020 So thankfully we've largely moved past XML. 00:06:47.020 --> 00:06:51.560 And really thankfully we've largely moved past XML namespaces. 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.480 Because that just is a complication that never needed to exist. 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:58.860 But there's still plenty of XML stuff out there that people have to work with. 00:06:58.860 --> 00:07:01.680 So here's a cool little library that people can use. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:09.020 So we already have XML support in Python through the element tree API, which is pretty nice. 00:07:09.140 --> 00:07:09.680 It works well. 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:11.900 You give it an XML document. 00:07:11.900 --> 00:07:18.960 But then you do sort of navigate it through like child parent or dot attribute. 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:24.100 There's like some, you know, it's not totally the cleanest, most straightforward API. 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:35.280 So with this Untangle thing, you can treat it like a Python object that just dynamically adopts the nodes as fields of those objects as a hierarchy. 00:07:36.020 --> 00:07:37.560 So super simple. 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:37.660 So super simple. 00:07:37.660 --> 00:07:43.080 You just get it to parse either a URL, a file, or from a string, just an XML string. 00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:45.600 There's an example that is just real simple. 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:48.260 It has a root and it has a child node. 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:53.220 And on the child node, it has an attribute where it says name equals child one. 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:53.700 Okay. 00:07:53.700 --> 00:08:01.060 So if you were to load that up with this Untangle thing, you just, whatever you get back, you say dot root, because that's the first element. 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:07.020 You wanted to say, for example, that name attribute, say dot root, because that's the name of the root is whatever the first element. 00:08:07.020 --> 00:08:08.740 Then the next element is dot child. 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:14.880 And then to get the attribute, you just treat it like a dictionary and say bracket name and outcomes, outcomes have value. 00:08:14.880 --> 00:08:16.920 So that seems really, really clean and nice. 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:17.920 It does look clean. 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:19.560 Other than the fact you're still dealing with XML. 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:20.340 Yeah, well. 00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:24.000 I was just dealing with XML this morning. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:24.580 Yuck. 00:08:24.580 --> 00:08:26.020 Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:26.020 --> 00:08:32.740 So I suppose there's an API for enumerating things where you have multiple ones, right? 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:36.440 You could have child, child, child, child with name one, child with name two, right? 00:08:36.500 --> 00:08:39.120 As a list of things in this XML. 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:44.520 So it's, there's probably, you know, maybe if there's multiple ones, I don't know, maybe it's a list or something. 00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:49.640 I have to look, actually realize I didn't totally look into that, but it's a pretty cool library. 00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:54.100 If people are doing things like that, they can definitely check it out. 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:54.560 Here we go. 00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:54.780 Maybe. 00:08:54.780 --> 00:08:55.400 Yeah. 00:08:55.400 --> 00:09:04.440 I think I will try this out because I have used elementary and it does the job, but I always thought maybe it could be easier. 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:06.260 What's the speed like? 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:08.360 Do you know anything on if it's fast, slow? 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:13.220 Honestly, I would imagine what it's doing is it's probably using element tree. 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:13.820 Yeah. 00:09:13.820 --> 00:09:18.380 It's just like a thin wrapper over top of it, but I don't, I don't know. 00:09:18.380 --> 00:09:18.880 Let's see. 00:09:18.880 --> 00:09:23.780 Oh, it's using defused XML. 00:09:23.780 --> 00:09:23.920 Yeah. 00:09:23.920 --> 00:09:24.700 Sax. 00:09:24.700 --> 00:09:25.100 Okay. 00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:29.140 I have no, I don't know anything about Sax XML, but yeah. 00:09:29.140 --> 00:09:29.480 Okay. 00:09:29.480 --> 00:09:30.240 Pretty interesting. 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:31.960 No, I don't know anything. 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:32.360 It doesn't. 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:38.460 Unfortunately, the read me doesn't have a lot of information about, you know, like its performance and other things. 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:39.100 But yeah. 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:40.320 They also have a blog post. 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:42.720 You can check out about why they built it, which is kind of neat. 00:09:42.920 --> 00:09:46.360 So also sweet, short and sweet, but check it out. 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.320 If that sounds like something that would benefit you. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:49.220 That's very cool. 00:09:49.220 --> 00:09:49.740 Indeed. 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:50.260 All right. 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:50.840 Over to you, Calvin. 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:56.640 Well, something else that could benefit you is going to be, my pie is official one. 00:09:56.800 --> 00:10:00.680 Oh, released, I think this was as of about a week and a half ago. 00:10:00.680 --> 00:10:02.520 So it was pretty, pretty new news. 00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:03.780 A ton of stuff here. 00:10:03.780 --> 00:10:10.680 So for those, you don't know, my pie is the static type checker for Python, basically a Python linter on steroids. 00:10:10.680 --> 00:10:19.740 so if you are using type hints, this is going to be a great way for you to make sure your code is, basically ready to go before it even runs. 00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:27.340 something a lot of developers coming to Python from other statically or strongly type languages, really appreciate. 00:10:27.340 --> 00:10:38.100 And I think it's something that a lot of Python developers are moving to, especially with like the surge in populative languages like TypeScript, because the IDEs are really supporting this like so well. 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:41.620 So it, you, you get a significant improvement in your quality of life. 00:10:41.620 --> 00:10:45.900 If you move to a tool like my pie and start using my Python and Python hints. 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:47.900 So, type hints in Python. 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:49.840 there's some things to watch out for. 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:53.400 So as this new release rolls out, they are changing their numbering scheme. 00:10:53.400 --> 00:11:03.760 It used to be like 0.999, you know, they kept kind of extending this like 0.9, beta release window, but it's actually now 1.0. 00:11:03.760 --> 00:11:04.720 It is not Simver. 00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:09.840 so do not count on minor releases, not having backward incompatibilities. 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.920 although they should be very minimal is what they claim. 00:11:12.920 --> 00:11:16.180 But something you may want to be aware of if you are upgrading to this. 00:11:16.420 --> 00:11:28.740 And when you go in and pin your, you know, my pie version, you want to be really explicit about it because they're going to make sure they announce those significant backward incompatibilities in any kind of blog posts in the release before that feature releases. 00:11:28.740 --> 00:11:29.660 So the idea is... 00:11:29.660 --> 00:11:31.940 Do you say it has a, like a gut feel ver? 00:11:31.940 --> 00:11:32.980 Yeah, yeah, right. 00:11:32.980 --> 00:11:33.800 A season dance ver? 00:11:33.800 --> 00:11:35.000 Like what's the official term? 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:36.580 Like, yeah, it feels like a big release. 00:11:36.580 --> 00:11:38.140 Let's go ahead and change this part of the version. 00:11:38.140 --> 00:11:42.140 But on that same note, they do have feature flags for this. 00:11:42.140 --> 00:11:46.240 So if there is a new big feature coming, there's going to be a backward incompatible feature. 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:48.140 The previous release notes will note it. 00:11:48.140 --> 00:11:49.560 The release will have it. 00:11:49.560 --> 00:11:50.980 There'll be a flag to turn it on. 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:53.140 So you can try it out easily in your workflow. 00:11:53.140 --> 00:11:57.240 See what breaks without having to, you know, downgrade, re-upgrade, downgrade, re-upgrade. 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:01.500 So you can actually turn it on and off and make sure it works inside your workflow and your process. 00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.140 Lots of performance improvements. 00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:06.980 So 1.0 is 40% faster than 0.991. 00:12:06.980 --> 00:12:10.560 There's about 20 optimizations in this list. 00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:16.200 And this is, you can see by my scroll bar, there's a ton of stuff that happened when they went to release 1.0. 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:21.300 But some more things in here that are nice features, for example, warning about variables before definition 00:12:21.300 --> 00:12:24.500 kind of goes along with this possibly undefined variables. 00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:26.420 So for example, B is never true. 00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:27.380 X never happens. 00:12:27.380 --> 00:12:29.060 You'll never be able to print X. 00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:31.720 mypy will tell you about that before you ever run your code. 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.700 So it's kind of like just a lot of those belts and suspenders, nice safety checks. 00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:37.220 Keep your code nice and clean. 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:43.860 Combine this with, you know, tools like black and things like that to just have super tight code that is easy to read for everybody. 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:47.380 Some new features that are supported as of Python 3.11. 00:12:47.380 --> 00:12:49.700 The new self type is supported. 00:12:49.700 --> 00:12:57.460 So if you are having a method that returns an instance of the class, you can use the self type. 00:12:57.460 --> 00:13:02.980 So if you have a sub class, you get the correct sub class return instead of having to explicitly, you know, 00:13:02.980 --> 00:13:05.620 redefine that for every sub class you are doing. 00:13:05.620 --> 00:13:10.560 So more convenience methods for those who are diving deep into the typing system here. 00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.160 The self type is so good. 00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:12.620 Yeah. 00:13:12.620 --> 00:13:14.700 It's really, it cleans up a lot of problems. 00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:20.500 It was really janky to, you know, if you're inside the class, you put in quotes, the name of the class. 00:13:20.640 --> 00:13:26.800 Well, how's it supposed to find, you know, that one, or if it's going to create a circular dependency, you've got to do weird things. 00:13:26.800 --> 00:13:28.880 So yeah, that's really, really nice. 00:13:28.880 --> 00:13:37.720 I do wish that Python had like a two stage parser aspect where it would say, go through, here's all the stuff that's defined in the class. 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.420 Oh, here's some type things and other reference. 00:13:40.420 --> 00:13:41.480 We might not know what that is. 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.320 Let's go all through and then go back again and see if we can figure out what that is, you know. 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:52.660 But the way it works now is when you're in the middle of a class, that class doesn't exist yet because it's not done defining until you're at the end. 00:13:52.660 --> 00:13:57.420 But if you've got to say, I'm going to compare this against another one of me, well, how do you say that in types? 00:13:57.420 --> 00:13:57.780 Self. 00:13:57.780 --> 00:13:58.660 Right. 00:13:58.660 --> 00:13:59.700 That's what we got. 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:04.220 And I can see this like being rolled in to proper Python. 00:14:04.220 --> 00:14:05.680 It seems like at some point. 00:14:05.680 --> 00:14:18.120 I just feel like types went on from being this pie in the sky idea to bolted on type feature to it's really getting ironed out and really well supported by the community and really well supported by all the editors. 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.900 There's some new stuff in here that I don't know too much about. 00:14:22.900 --> 00:14:25.980 We're not heavy into types yet. 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:30.640 We're doing a lot with Django and doing some type ins there to start making some APIs. 00:14:30.640 --> 00:14:32.360 But that's where we're still diving in. 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.220 A bunch of new like miscellaneous features. 00:14:34.220 --> 00:14:40.840 So if you are looking for features galore that has happened in mypy 1.0, there's a bunch of fixes to crashes. 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:43.540 So this seems like it's a really robust release. 00:14:43.540 --> 00:14:48.780 Another important one here is going to be the Python 310 match statement support. 00:14:48.780 --> 00:14:50.640 So it can compile those as well. 00:14:50.640 --> 00:14:58.680 So they're staying on top of all the recent language features, which is obviously what's needed to get momentum behind a project like this. 00:14:58.680 --> 00:15:02.400 I think anybody who's using type ins better be using the mypy stuff. 00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:06.040 For those who don't know, it's also supported by Dropbox. 00:15:06.040 --> 00:15:13.880 So when I said 40% or no, yeah, the 40% faster, that was actually running against the Dropbox main code base. 00:15:13.880 --> 00:15:17.200 So they're actually, that's the benchmark against Dropbox itself. 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:18.240 Interesting. 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:18.860 Yeah. 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:19.260 Yeah. 00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:22.940 mypyC is pretty an interesting thing that opens up once you start to adopt types. 00:15:22.940 --> 00:15:29.580 For me, the main reason I use types in my world, and I realize that I live in a different world than a lot of folks. 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:38.080 But for me, it's really about making the editor tell me what it should know already and not, do I need to go look in that method? 00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:44.100 Does this actually take, when it says user ID, is that a string or is that a BSON from MongoDB? 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:48.160 I can't remember what kind of thing this stores for this day, it says, you know? 00:15:48.160 --> 00:15:48.840 Yeah. 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:49.980 And then, oh, okay, that's obvious, right? 00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:51.840 Just so you don't have to keep bouncing around. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:54.340 You just stay in the way you're trying to focus. 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:54.740 And I love it. 00:15:54.740 --> 00:15:54.820 Yeah. 00:15:54.820 --> 00:15:55.660 It's that extra smart. 00:15:55.820 --> 00:16:03.640 I mean, if you're using a PyCharm or VS Code and you thought it was smart before, once you introduce these types in there, it gets even smarter. 00:16:03.640 --> 00:16:04.980 Absolutely. 00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:05.980 All right. 00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:06.260 Awesome. 00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:06.820 Awesome one. 00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:08.760 Now, two pieces of real-time feedback. 00:16:08.760 --> 00:16:19.140 One, I found out with the untangle that if you have multiple nodes of the same thing, like you would in an RSS feed, you have multiple posts or a blog post, same thing for the posts. 00:16:20.920 --> 00:16:26.400 You just still say root dot, you know, main thing dot child or whatever the name of that node is. 00:16:26.400 --> 00:16:30.240 That becomes a list instead of a single thing if there's more than one. 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:31.080 Okay. 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:33.280 So that's pretty interesting. 00:16:33.280 --> 00:16:37.680 And then the other one here is over to you, Brian. 00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:41.160 Jeff asked, can an old project be converted to work with Flit? 00:16:41.560 --> 00:16:43.580 And yes, probably, maybe. 00:16:43.580 --> 00:16:45.680 It really depends on the project. 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:48.800 Some of it can be re... 00:16:48.800 --> 00:16:50.480 There's not that much to it, right? 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:56.920 There's PyProject.toml and a few other things, and it's probably not that much work to migrate it, I guess. 00:16:56.920 --> 00:16:59.360 Yeah, but I mean, an old... 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:07.400 I'm assuming by old project, it's an old setup.py setup tools project, and you could do anything in that. 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:11.820 So if you were going crazy, you can't go crazy anymore. 00:17:11.820 --> 00:17:16.340 But if it was a fairly simple, straightforward, then yeah, probably. 00:17:16.340 --> 00:17:18.400 If you were going crazy, you get what you deserve. 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:18.940 How about that? 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:30.440 So, all right, before we move on to our next topic, let me tell you about our sponsor for this week, Microsoft First Startups Founders Hub. 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:32.100 Really great program. 00:17:32.100 --> 00:17:44.500 If you have a startup and you want to get tons of support, not just technical support, but also networking with people who have founded their own startups, then you should check out Microsoft First Startup Founders Hub. 00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:50.200 As Brian mentioned last time, we heard back from one of our listeners who signed up and had done several startups and said, 00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:53.140 I was a little skeptical, but this is a really great program. 00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:56.580 It's fantastic for us, and I just wanted to let you know how well it's working out. 00:17:57.040 --> 00:17:58.500 So definitely a good program. 00:17:58.500 --> 00:17:59.300 People will check it out. 00:17:59.300 --> 00:18:06.260 So what it is Microsoft created this program to help people become successful starting a business. 00:18:06.260 --> 00:18:10.360 By some estimates, 90% of startups go out of business within the first year. 00:18:10.360 --> 00:18:12.480 That's not what you want for your startup. 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.560 You want it to succeed. 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.400 So with Microsoft First Startup Founders Hub, you get access to free resources. 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:23.380 So this includes platform technologies like Azure, GitHub. 00:18:23.380 --> 00:18:25.240 They partner with OpenAI. 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.580 I've heard ChatGPT is catching on, so that's kind of cool. 00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:32.520 So you get access to some of the resources from them, which is fantastic. 00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:38.080 But you also get access to the mentorship network, which I think maybe is even the most important part. 00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:48.400 You get access to a pool of hundreds of mentors across ranges of disciplines, across areas like idea validation, fundraising, management and coaching, sales and marketing, and others. 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:53.800 So you can go and book one-on-one meetings with these folks, and many of them are former founders themselves. 00:18:53.800 --> 00:19:00.240 So you can make your idea a reality today with the critical support you get from Microsoft for startups, Founders Hub. 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:07.020 Just visit pythonbytes.fm/foundershub 2022 to go apply. 00:19:07.020 --> 00:19:08.320 The link's in your show notes. 00:19:08.320 --> 00:19:10.640 You don't have to be VC-backed. 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.740 You don't have to be third-party validated. 00:19:12.740 --> 00:19:13.820 You just apply. 00:19:13.820 --> 00:19:18.780 If they like what you want, it's free, and they'll take you on to the program, and you can get started. 00:19:18.780 --> 00:19:21.960 So thank you to Microsoft for supporting our show. 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:24.740 And with that, Brian, over to you. 00:19:24.740 --> 00:19:25.240 Yeah. 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.060 So go back to the same article for a second. 00:19:29.060 --> 00:19:31.060 Just scroll a little further down the same page. 00:19:31.060 --> 00:19:31.620 Okay, got it. 00:19:31.620 --> 00:19:38.060 So within the same packaging Python projects thing, there was... 00:19:38.060 --> 00:19:39.940 I have a reason to bring this up. 00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:44.700 But anyway, it lists a whole bunch of tools you can use for your build a backend. 00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:47.740 It's got PDM, FLIT, Subtools, and HatchLink. 00:19:47.740 --> 00:19:54.520 There's another page on the same in PyPI or PyPA that is the packaging flow. 00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:57.780 And this one talks about it as more of a high level. 00:19:57.780 --> 00:20:00.220 It's not a tutorial that talks about the high level thing. 00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:08.980 And there, it lists all of those, FLIT, Hatch, PDM, Poetry, Subtools, and then also Trampolin and Way, which I've not heard of. 00:20:08.980 --> 00:20:11.700 So this can cause confusion. 00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:13.260 And that's really what we're talking about. 00:20:13.260 --> 00:20:14.940 Is I have... 00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:27.340 And I'm bringing this up because just independent of my involvement with Python bytes, I've been involved with people having trouble figuring out how to package their Python code independently. 00:20:27.340 --> 00:20:32.760 I've got a web developer doing it, a tools backend person, and then somebody that's just trying... 00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:38.520 He's a C# person that just was trying to package a front end to his tool, a Python front end. 00:20:38.520 --> 00:20:40.860 And he was like, I don't know how to do all this. 00:20:40.860 --> 00:20:43.020 And it is confusing. 00:20:43.020 --> 00:20:46.920 And it even is confusing for seasoned Python developers. 00:20:47.340 --> 00:20:48.680 And here, we've got... 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:50.100 Oh, I didn't link it right now. 00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:59.580 But there was a Doug Hellman from Module of the Week posted that he's published lots of packages. 00:20:59.580 --> 00:21:03.820 And he went to do it again and was a little lost and wanted some advice. 00:21:03.820 --> 00:21:09.340 So new people or people that are outside of the scope are confused. 00:21:09.340 --> 00:21:12.420 And I think it's fair to recognize that. 00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:15.500 And so there's a lot of discussion around it. 00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:22.540 And Pradyan put together a blog post, was talking about it on Disqus. 00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:27.800 And he put together an article called Thoughts on the Python Packaging Ecosystem. 00:21:27.800 --> 00:21:30.920 And I think it's a kind of a fair discussion around it. 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:37.680 And one of the points is that a lot of Python users are not software engineers. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.900 But we also have to recognize that a lot are. 00:21:40.900 --> 00:21:44.360 So it's a diverse ecosystem. 00:21:44.860 --> 00:21:47.500 And I think it's going to be a mess. 00:21:47.500 --> 00:21:48.860 It's going to be a mess for a while. 00:21:48.860 --> 00:21:50.880 And I think it's going to be... 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:53.180 I think it's good that it's a mess in some cases. 00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:54.500 It's good that we have... 00:21:54.500 --> 00:21:56.760 We don't just have setup tools now. 00:21:56.760 --> 00:22:07.300 We have a lot of ways that are working on different pieces of the problem of, you know, how to make it easier around PyProject.atomla. 00:22:07.300 --> 00:22:09.160 And you can have a different build backend. 00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:12.400 He breaks down the points. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:13.920 It's a big article. 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:22.300 But one of the things is it kind of unintentionally, the packaging ecosystem unintentionally became a competitive space that it is today. 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.620 And maybe we need to make an... 00:22:25.620 --> 00:22:32.480 The community needs to make an explicit decision if we should continue operating under that model that led to what we have now. 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:37.640 We could pick from in different tools to do in different things. 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.340 That's a good model, according to this. 00:22:40.840 --> 00:22:46.860 Or in approximately the same choices to get a really bad user experience. 00:22:46.860 --> 00:22:48.880 Bad for some people, good for others. 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:55.440 And then, you know, also maybe we should pick a default because picking a default doesn't make the other approaches illegal. 00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.220 They just aren't the default. 00:22:57.220 --> 00:22:59.040 And I'm kind of leaning towards that. 00:22:59.040 --> 00:23:02.120 I think it would be good to have something, but I'm not sure what. 00:23:03.580 --> 00:23:09.060 Longer down the line, pardon me, of the scroll, is pip. 00:23:09.060 --> 00:23:12.680 One of the top ideas is maybe we should have pip. 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:14.540 Well, okay, I'll back up a little bit. 00:23:14.540 --> 00:23:18.880 Some of these tools like Poetry and PDM are workflow tools. 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:23.560 And other tools like Flit are more build. 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:26.500 Flit's more like I want to build, just build a wheel. 00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:31.000 It also does publish, but mostly the workload is around building the wheel. 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:39.580 Whereas PDM and Poetry are like this whole workflow thing, control your virtual environment, do a whole bunch of stuff. 00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:51.040 And I know a lot of people from other languages like JavaScript, maybe Go, I don't know, are used to these high-end workflow things that do everything for you. 00:23:51.040 --> 00:23:56.440 But we're already used to a multi-tool model now, so I'm not sure how to get from here to there. 00:23:56.800 --> 00:23:59.440 It would be interesting to have pip do it. 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:01.160 I mean, we already all use pip. 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:10.980 So could pip expand to do both the focus thing it's doing now, installing a package, and then also do some workflow stuff? 00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:16.120 And I guess I'd be kind of open to explore that idea, but I was curious what you guys thought. 00:24:16.120 --> 00:24:17.360 I'd be open to explore it. 00:24:17.360 --> 00:24:22.500 Not to disparage anything, but I personally dislike the things that try to put their workflow onto you. 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:24.880 I'd much rather have something simpler. 00:24:25.040 --> 00:24:29.280 And as someone who teaches Python, this is a huge problem for people getting into language. 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:31.420 They feel like it's a big challenge. 00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:33.080 Why is it so hard? 00:24:33.080 --> 00:24:34.680 Why do I have to learn all these things? 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.840 I picked the wrong thing, and now am I screwed? 00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:38.320 No, you're not out of luck. 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:41.460 You just delete your virtual environment and start over. 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:42.880 But yes, things are a little... 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.860 I think having many of them, one, is a problem. 00:24:47.320 --> 00:24:53.160 And I think something that forces workflows on you, I'm not a huge fan of. 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.680 I feel like we've already got lots of tools that solve it pretty well. 00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:00.560 I'm kind of not against pip doing a little bit more. 00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:04.860 I use pip-tools for managing my dependencies, and it is so good. 00:25:04.860 --> 00:25:06.580 It is so good. 00:25:06.700 --> 00:25:09.620 You state just your top-level dependencies, and when it's time to... 00:25:09.620 --> 00:25:10.300 Let's see what new. 00:25:10.300 --> 00:25:11.760 Let's make sure we upgrade to the new things. 00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:14.020 You just run pip-tools upgrade, and it'll regenerate. 00:25:14.020 --> 00:25:15.740 You can evaluate what the changes are. 00:25:15.740 --> 00:25:17.400 I really, really like pip-tools. 00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:21.320 I think it's a much simpler scenario than a lot of them. 00:25:21.320 --> 00:25:23.180 And I know other people really like it. 00:25:23.180 --> 00:25:25.040 Anyway, this is what I like. 00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:29.620 We could possibly leave pip alone and expand pip-tools to do the rest of the workflow stuff. 00:25:29.620 --> 00:25:30.540 Yes, potentially. 00:25:30.540 --> 00:25:33.140 Yeah, we could, but I kind of agree with that. 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:38.520 Like, Unix small tools do one thing really well, which is why I've kind of gone with the 00:25:38.520 --> 00:25:42.320 pip-tools approach as well, because I really feel like pip-tools does such an incredible 00:25:42.320 --> 00:25:48.280 job at that dependency resolution and getting exactly what you need way better and way faster 00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:49.480 than pip itself does. 00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:52.280 I think that approach that, like, Flit takes, it seems like... 00:25:52.280 --> 00:25:56.740 I've never used Flit, but the fact that it can just wrap around pre-existing tools to 00:25:56.740 --> 00:26:03.680 provide a common interface for users to be able to build, package, push the whole deal 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:08.380 seems, like, really nice because it guides them through step-by-step that process until 00:26:08.380 --> 00:26:12.080 maybe at some point they don't need it or they just enjoy it, and it's using some of those 00:26:12.080 --> 00:26:13.240 standard tools behind the scenes. 00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:13.800 Yeah. 00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:18.880 But also with Michael, I don't like the predefined workflows that, like, I'm not a huge fan of 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.240 poetry necessarily because it just doesn't fit the way my brain wants. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.420 the work down a project. 00:26:23.420 --> 00:26:24.860 And I'm not surprised. 00:26:24.860 --> 00:26:31.420 So I was thinking an analogy of, like, if you're going to have a pocket knife, which tools should 00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:32.660 be in the pocket knife? 00:26:32.660 --> 00:26:36.640 And if you go into, like, the medium pocket knives on the Victorinox site... 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.520 Oh, no, it won't load. 00:26:37.520 --> 00:26:38.920 You get, like, tons... 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:39.880 Even the small ones. 00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.560 So the medium ones, you get, like, tons of different tools. 00:26:42.560 --> 00:26:43.760 Which tools should be there? 00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:44.800 Nobody's going to agree. 00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:49.560 And I thought, well, at least in the small ones, maybe people can agree. 00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:52.880 Because, oh, no, not even in the small ones, people can't agree. 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.440 Which should go together. 00:26:54.440 --> 00:26:55.280 So, yeah. 00:26:55.280 --> 00:27:00.520 I want my Swiss Army knife to also have drywall tools and something from my car. 00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:06.460 But it seems like the combination, though, of really small tools that do one thing really 00:27:06.460 --> 00:27:11.000 well with some tools to layer on top of it, whether it's your IDE, whether it's FLIT. 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.160 And you can have the opinionated workflows layered on top of it. 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:20.720 They rest on top of a solid set of identical tools that produce the identical thing. 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:21.200 Yeah. 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.140 I'm in that camp as well. 00:27:24.140 --> 00:27:24.520 That's why. 00:27:24.520 --> 00:27:27.820 But I totally get that that's confusing for people. 00:27:27.820 --> 00:27:28.520 Oh, totally confusing. 00:27:29.040 --> 00:27:32.760 The first time I go to explain to someone how they're going to manage, like, their 00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:36.860 dependencies on a Django project, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have to step back and think about 00:27:36.860 --> 00:27:41.760 the 20 steps that kind of go into how I learned to do this that I'm now explaining to some new 00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.200 person. 00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.780 I'm like, I'm sorry, this doesn't sound easy at all. 00:27:44.780 --> 00:27:46.420 There's got to be a better way. 00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:47.780 But I don't know if there is. 00:27:47.780 --> 00:27:48.300 Yeah. 00:27:48.300 --> 00:27:49.300 Anyway. 00:27:49.300 --> 00:27:49.880 Okay. 00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:51.260 Rabbit hole. 00:27:51.260 --> 00:27:51.760 But. 00:27:51.760 --> 00:27:52.420 Oh, totally. 00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:56.180 I mean, Python packaging is the ultimate rabbit hole in the Python community. 00:27:56.180 --> 00:27:56.740 Yeah. 00:27:56.740 --> 00:27:58.040 Speaking of packages. 00:27:58.040 --> 00:27:58.200 Packages. 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.760 Michael, do you want to jump into yours? 00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:03.600 I do want to talk about more packages. 00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:07.500 This is the simplified version, but also a bit of real time follow up as well. 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:13.780 Again, I'm having many of the folks that were on that discuss thread that you mentioned, 00:28:13.780 --> 00:28:18.960 Brian, about this topic on Talk Python probably in a couple of weeks as a big panel discussion 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:19.280 about it. 00:28:19.280 --> 00:28:24.360 So if you all want to hear more of this, but for a long time with the folks who are participating 00:28:24.360 --> 00:28:25.580 and dive on in. 00:28:25.580 --> 00:28:26.720 Okay. 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:32.020 Oh, also, apparently, I said chat GTP, right? 00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:35.980 And I meant ChatGPT, as Sharaf pointed out. 00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.640 So thanks for that. 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.060 That's the one I meant. 00:28:38.060 --> 00:28:38.860 You know the one. 00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:39.120 All right. 00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:44.880 So there's this cool GitHub page, I guess, called Top PyPI Packages. 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.780 And so this is a pretty neat place. 00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:53.600 It shows you the top 5,000 most downloaded PyPI packages updated monthly. 00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:59.840 So you can scroll down here and you can say, show me the top 100, show me the top 1,000 or 00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:00.100 whatever. 00:29:00.100 --> 00:29:02.340 I'll pull up the 1,000 for you, Brian. 00:29:02.340 --> 00:29:03.060 There you go. 00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:05.620 So these are updated over the last 30 days. 00:29:05.620 --> 00:29:07.380 And it actually says when it was last updated. 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.360 And that was February 1st, which is a week ago as of this recording. 00:29:11.360 --> 00:29:12.800 So that's pretty fresh, really. 00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:16.860 And so you can find things like pytestCheck. 00:29:16.860 --> 00:29:18.040 Is that in here somewhere, Brian? 00:29:18.040 --> 00:29:21.820 It's in the top 5,000, but not the top 1,000. 00:29:21.820 --> 00:29:22.520 Oh, okay. 00:29:22.520 --> 00:29:23.360 Did I get the wrong one? 00:29:23.360 --> 00:29:23.640 Sorry. 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:24.700 I tried to pull you up there. 00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:29.860 But you see things like Boto3 and URLlib are the most popular. 00:29:29.860 --> 00:29:38.180 So Boto3 is downloaded 522 million times every month, every 30 days or so, which is just insane. 00:29:38.580 --> 00:29:44.920 You got to be careful because some of these are really popular dependencies rather than directly really important libraries. 00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:49.700 Like I use Boto3 all the time as a dependency, less often directly. 00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:53.960 Definitely for URLlib3, I don't think I've ever used it directly, but obviously it gets installed. 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.340 But I'm going to use many things. 00:29:55.340 --> 00:29:58.120 So this is pretty cool if people want to check it out. 00:29:58.120 --> 00:29:59.020 Calvin, what do you think? 00:29:59.020 --> 00:30:08.440 Oh, I'm excited about this too because just thinking about the number of times the Amazon cloud must go download Boto3 from PyPy. 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:10.140 Mind-blowing. 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:15.540 Like there's all the serverless that's on server someplace downloading packages in the background. 00:30:15.540 --> 00:30:18.100 Now you get a feel for it with a big number. 00:30:18.100 --> 00:30:24.640 Yeah, it's really nuts, which is also a little bit ironic because it comes from AWS and they send it over to PyPI and then it comes back to AWS. 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.640 It's a weird world. 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:31.860 Don't they use Fastly for their CDN? 00:30:31.860 --> 00:30:32.920 I think they use Fastly. 00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:34.340 PyPI? 00:30:34.340 --> 00:30:34.880 Yeah. 00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:35.940 I believe so. 00:30:36.300 --> 00:30:36.500 Yeah. 00:30:36.500 --> 00:30:39.120 It's like they have to go to a competitor to get like... 00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:39.920 Yes, exactly. 00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:41.540 Yeah. 00:30:41.540 --> 00:30:42.120 How interesting. 00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:44.200 So this is interesting in and of itself. 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:45.380 And it tells you which ones are there. 00:30:45.380 --> 00:30:46.980 And there's an API which you can hit. 00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:48.280 Let's not hit the minified one. 00:30:48.280 --> 00:30:49.660 Let's hit the non-minified one. 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:55.280 And it'll tell you actually returns when it was updated, what the query was, et cetera, et cetera. 00:30:55.280 --> 00:30:58.820 And so you actually can get this as a JSON endpoint, which is pretty cool. 00:30:58.820 --> 00:31:04.420 It's just a static file that gets updated every couple of days on this GitHub page setup. 00:31:04.420 --> 00:31:06.960 So that's also an interesting way to think of an API. 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.160 My API is a static file that periodically gets refreshed. 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:11.120 But there it is. 00:31:11.120 --> 00:31:12.980 So you don't have to go hard on much there. 00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:14.400 I kind of love it, though. 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:15.680 I kind of do, too. 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:16.760 Just a static file. 00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:17.320 Yeah. 00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:18.240 Yeah. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.120 Think how scalable that bad boy is. 00:31:20.120 --> 00:31:20.440 Okay. 00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:22.540 Especially if you put a CD in behind it. 00:31:23.380 --> 00:31:31.100 And then related to that by the same person, there is Hugovic top PyPI packages on GitHub, 00:31:31.100 --> 00:31:34.940 which is a regular dump of the most downloaded packages from PyPI. 00:31:34.940 --> 00:31:38.060 So that sounds like, yeah, Michael, you told us about that. 00:31:38.060 --> 00:31:38.940 Thanks a bunch. 00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:41.480 No, it's not the names. 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:42.820 It's all of it. 00:31:42.820 --> 00:31:46.300 It's all of the data that is here. 00:31:46.300 --> 00:31:47.780 Where do they have it? 00:31:47.780 --> 00:31:48.180 This one? 00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:49.400 I don't know if I want to open this up. 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:50.820 But it's really big. 00:31:50.820 --> 00:31:52.780 So it's all the XML. 00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:54.540 I'm not sure where it is in here. 00:31:54.540 --> 00:31:58.540 But it's all the XML files of, or rather, XML. 00:31:58.540 --> 00:32:01.300 The JSON files that Untangle got me thinking XML. 00:32:01.300 --> 00:32:06.580 So it's all the JSON files of what comes out of the PyPI API. 00:32:06.580 --> 00:32:07.760 But all of them. 00:32:07.760 --> 00:32:12.360 It's when I checked it out and unzipped it, and it was like 22 gigs on disk. 00:32:12.360 --> 00:32:16.820 So this is a big beast right here if you download it. 00:32:16.820 --> 00:32:18.420 Actually, no, this is not the right link. 00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:19.640 I'll have to find it. 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:20.960 I'll put it in the show notes. 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.060 But there's this guy. 00:32:23.060 --> 00:32:23.580 Darn it. 00:32:23.580 --> 00:32:24.720 This is the wrong one. 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:29.860 But there's also, linked off of this, there's one where you get all of the packages, which 00:32:29.860 --> 00:32:31.940 is all the JSON for every package. 00:32:31.940 --> 00:32:33.940 I'll have to figure out where I got that from, unfortunately. 00:32:33.940 --> 00:32:35.580 It's the wrong link I pulled up. 00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:38.160 But anyway, these are both really cool resources. 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:40.420 And you'll have to check the links for that other one. 00:32:40.420 --> 00:32:40.960 Cool. 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:41.260 Yeah, definitely. 00:32:41.260 --> 00:32:41.820 Yeah. 00:32:41.820 --> 00:32:42.820 All right. 00:32:42.820 --> 00:32:43.680 Calum? 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:48.800 Coming in at 57 on that list for the last 30 days is SQLAlchemy. 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.540 So for those of you who aren't familiar and do like Swiss Army Knives, this is the Swiss 00:32:53.540 --> 00:32:55.000 Army Knife of database tools. 00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.640 It's not only an ORM, but it has a whole SQL toolkit built into it. 00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:03.140 So if you've never touched SQLAlchemy, but do deal with databases, you may want to check 00:33:03.140 --> 00:33:03.560 this out. 00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:07.780 And more importantly, and this kind of ties in with my previous announcement on the mypy 00:33:07.780 --> 00:33:08.960 1.0 release. 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:13.400 There's a lot more support in this release for types and typing. 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:18.580 So there's kind of native out of the box mypy experience has been improved. 00:33:18.580 --> 00:33:24.120 Now, the author of SQLAlchemy, Mike Baer, is actually going to be joining us in a few weeks 00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:29.140 here at Python Web Conference and giving a tutorial length session on SQLAlchemy. 00:33:29.140 --> 00:33:32.120 He did this last time two years ago when he released 1.4. 00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:36.780 So for those of you who've kind of been following along in the background, the 1.4 release was 00:33:36.780 --> 00:33:41.880 kind of the first half of this major revamp of SQLAlchemy into this new world. 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:44.820 And so 2.0 is the second half of that revamp. 00:33:44.820 --> 00:33:49.700 So it's really been like four years coming for this major release of SQLAlchemy. 00:33:49.700 --> 00:33:53.680 So if you want to know what's new and hear it from the horse's mouth, Mike Baer is going 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.280 to be joining us and he'll be happy to answer all of your questions. 00:33:57.280 --> 00:33:58.060 Let's see. 00:33:58.060 --> 00:34:01.240 There's a ton of new things released in here. 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:03.060 I think if I scroll down. 00:34:03.060 --> 00:34:03.520 Yeah. 00:34:03.520 --> 00:34:08.020 So plugin free, 484 compatible ORM syntaxes. 00:34:08.020 --> 00:34:10.160 So again, kind of ripping out the old stuff. 00:34:10.160 --> 00:34:14.140 All the typing support in here is all fresh. 00:34:14.140 --> 00:34:20.580 If you are using the mypy plugins from before, you're going to want to take all those out. 00:34:20.580 --> 00:34:22.640 They're considered deprecated at this point. 00:34:22.900 --> 00:34:25.520 So that's something that's very important for you to consider. 00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:31.740 But now SQLAlchemy 2.0 is using all the new Python 3.0 wonderfulness of like data classes, 00:34:31.740 --> 00:34:33.420 enums, inline annotations. 00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:38.120 It's just really a nice modernization of a really powerful package. 00:34:38.120 --> 00:34:39.740 See what else was in here? 00:34:39.740 --> 00:34:41.220 There was a super importance. 00:34:41.220 --> 00:34:42.720 Oh yeah, some performance stuff. 00:34:42.720 --> 00:34:48.260 So this all new fully integrated ORM approach to bulk inserts is quite interesting. 00:34:48.260 --> 00:34:52.520 You will get a major speed increase, except if you're using MySQL. 00:34:52.520 --> 00:34:57.300 The MySQL folks have not implemented the insert returning syntax. 00:34:57.300 --> 00:34:59.380 But if you're on MariaDB, you're good to go. 00:34:59.380 --> 00:35:01.300 So that's something to pay attention to. 00:35:01.300 --> 00:35:06.260 In addition to that performance, there's also the bulk optimized schema reflection. 00:35:06.260 --> 00:35:12.320 So if you were using SQLAlchemy, it was basically doing a table by table reflection. 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.180 If you were asking it for metadata about the tables. 00:35:15.180 --> 00:35:18.940 Now in all of the backends, there is basically a... 00:35:18.940 --> 00:35:20.420 Oh, sorry. 00:35:20.420 --> 00:35:22.680 I think it's only for Postgres and Oracle right now. 00:35:22.680 --> 00:35:26.420 So Postgres and Oracle support the bulk schema upgrades. 00:35:26.420 --> 00:35:29.680 You can see right here for Postgres, a 250% improvement. 00:35:29.680 --> 00:35:32.640 And for Oracle, a 900% improvement. 00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:36.240 I'm not sure what it was doing before, but it's a heck of a lot faster now. 00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:37.640 At 900% improvement. 00:35:37.640 --> 00:35:39.380 Always a benefit there. 00:35:39.380 --> 00:35:44.440 And in addition, I'll kind of point out some of the things that were in the migration guide 00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:45.940 and the what's new in 2.0 guide. 00:35:45.940 --> 00:35:48.660 You're going to want to make sure you check those out here. 00:35:48.660 --> 00:35:52.040 There's like the migration process linked from this article or blog post. 00:35:52.040 --> 00:35:55.780 You're going to want to make sure you read through those because there's major incompatibilities 00:35:55.780 --> 00:35:57.520 from 1.4 into 2.0. 00:35:57.680 --> 00:36:03.420 But the migration guide is really similar to like the 2 to 3 guide Python had. 00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:07.400 Tells you how to mechanically go through and make sure you're going to be compatible for 00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:08.740 the latest version of SQLAlchemy. 00:36:08.740 --> 00:36:14.520 Another speed improvement here is that all the native C extensions have been ported to Cython. 00:36:14.520 --> 00:36:16.100 Some of them are... 00:36:16.100 --> 00:36:17.380 They're all as fast. 00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:20.460 Some of them are slightly faster than their previous C extensions. 00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:26.020 But this also removes risks of memory corruption and stomping on each other and things that 00:36:26.020 --> 00:36:28.380 C does really well that you don't want. 00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:29.940 So that's also a nice benefit. 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:36.040 And then the kind of tying into that same benefit is the SQLAlchemy is now PEP 5.17 enabled. 00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:41.220 So that means the PyProject.toml file that we just saw in the last couple of announcements 00:36:41.220 --> 00:36:46.420 is supported, which means when you're on your local machine and doing a source build of SQL 00:36:46.420 --> 00:36:51.080 Alchemy, it can automatically go grab some of the dependencies such as Cython, which can 00:36:51.080 --> 00:36:52.480 be tricky to get installed for some people. 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:57.400 So that is simplifying a lot of people's lives to go to SQLAlchemy 2.0. 00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:59.960 Yeah, SQLAlchemy 2.0 is a huge release. 00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:01.180 Yeah, it's a big deal. 00:37:01.180 --> 00:37:02.980 It's been years in the coming. 00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:08.240 And then it was in this intermediate 1.4 mode where you could choose either API and 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:09.960 they finally removed some things. 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.080 But to me, the biggest deal is the async. 00:37:12.080 --> 00:37:12.640 Yeah. 00:37:12.640 --> 00:37:13.220 Right. 00:37:13.220 --> 00:37:17.440 It's in the prior versions, there was just no way to do any async things, which meant 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.480 on all the scalable areas, you were kind of stuck trying to find somewhere else to go. 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:25.300 Now, if you really like SQLAlchemy, you can just use the async API. 00:37:25.300 --> 00:37:25.860 Yeah. 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:29.960 I think a lot of people are going to benefit from those types, all the type support in mypy 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:30.700 native support. 00:37:30.700 --> 00:37:31.620 Yeah, absolutely. 00:37:31.620 --> 00:37:32.840 And game back to your editor. 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.060 The Vulcan search have always been a hassle in ORMs. 00:37:36.060 --> 00:37:39.140 So it sounds like that's really gotten a lot of love too. 00:37:39.140 --> 00:37:40.160 Yeah, definitely. 00:37:40.160 --> 00:37:41.220 I look forward to it. 00:37:41.220 --> 00:37:43.060 I do as well. 00:37:43.060 --> 00:37:44.460 All right. 00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:46.920 Well, that's all of our topics. 00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:49.340 Brian, what do you got for us as an extra? 00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:55.200 I guess just one quick extra is like one of the things I've been working on the side 00:37:55.200 --> 00:38:00.380 is I'm going to create a new build backend for Python and a new workflow tool. 00:38:00.380 --> 00:38:01.820 No. 00:38:01.820 --> 00:38:04.320 I'm not. 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:06.520 But what will you name it? 00:38:08.140 --> 00:38:12.860 Well, I think flick because I always thought flit should have been flick. 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:14.940 So like a little football. 00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:15.740 So yeah. 00:38:15.740 --> 00:38:16.280 There you go. 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:19.200 So how about let's go to Calvin's extras? 00:38:19.200 --> 00:38:19.720 Yeah. 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:20.320 Sure. 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.600 So I kind of mentioned this in the intro, but we are putting on the Python Web Conference. 00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:26.380 This will be our fifth annual. 00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:28.460 So big five years. 00:38:28.460 --> 00:38:31.200 I'm wearing one of the jerseys from last year. 00:38:31.200 --> 00:38:34.600 You can't see it, but it was really awesome last year. 00:38:34.600 --> 00:38:35.700 We had 90 speakers. 00:38:35.700 --> 00:38:42.640 We had, I think it was over 400 attendees, something like 23 or 22 time zones. 00:38:42.640 --> 00:38:44.340 Like it was really a global event. 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.160 That's one of the things I'm really proud of. 00:38:46.160 --> 00:38:51.140 This event was meant to fill a hole, I felt like, in the Python community for folks who couldn't 00:38:51.140 --> 00:38:55.940 travel, couldn't afford to go to an in-person conference or wasn't a regional conference near 00:38:55.940 --> 00:38:56.240 them. 00:38:56.660 --> 00:38:59.500 I know the PSF is doing a lot of work right now and getting some regional conferences into 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:05.040 other areas, but this is still, and will always be virtual and always be accessible to folks. 00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:09.720 So if you go and register and you can't afford to pay for this, we do have a grant program. 00:39:09.720 --> 00:39:13.900 We want to make sure that if you have a need to be in this room, you should be in this room 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:15.140 and everyone is included. 00:39:15.140 --> 00:39:16.780 This year is going to be no exception. 00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:19.060 There's a lot of amazing speakers who have joined us. 00:39:19.060 --> 00:39:22.820 It'll be five half days from the 13th to the 17th. 00:39:22.820 --> 00:39:26.160 There'll be a keynote speaker kickoff every day, a keynote speaker at the end of every day. 00:39:26.600 --> 00:39:28.100 And there's some awesome speakers coming up. 00:39:28.100 --> 00:39:29.440 We've got some people from GitLab. 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:34.740 We've been focusing on finding some folks from climate initiatives to actually come and give 00:39:34.740 --> 00:39:38.340 some of our talks where they're using technology for good in these areas. 00:39:38.340 --> 00:39:40.340 There'll be a set of tutorials as well. 00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:45.040 So I mentioned Mike Baer's tutorial already, but there'll be three or four other tutorials 00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.940 as well. 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:49.580 I know Matt Harrison is going to be giving one of the tutorial, not tutorial, he'll be 00:39:49.580 --> 00:39:51.100 giving a keynote this year. 00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:53.940 So he's back again from last year. 00:39:53.940 --> 00:39:55.380 He gave a keynote and a tutorial. 00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:57.380 Man's the hardest working man in Python. 00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:01.040 But we really appreciate him joining us as well. 00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:05.200 And if you've got questions, make sure you just go to pythonwebconf.com. 00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:08.200 You can also find me on CalvinHP on Twitter. 00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:10.600 There's also a Twitter account for Python Web Conf. 00:40:10.600 --> 00:40:14.420 So you can follow Python Web Conf on all the socials and join us. 00:40:14.420 --> 00:40:16.620 There'll be socials actually during the event as well. 00:40:16.620 --> 00:40:17.800 So it should be tons of fun. 00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:20.960 We'll have just everything for the community. 00:40:21.140 --> 00:40:22.800 So I have a question right off the bat. 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:24.360 It says webconf. 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.480 If I'm not a web developer, am I still going to be interested in this? 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:28.960 Or is it primarily web development? 00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:30.480 That's an excellent question, Brian. 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:35.340 We originally, the webconf name meant a conference for web people. 00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:40.020 But we switched it around, you know, because we felt like this was an opportunity for the 00:40:40.020 --> 00:40:42.120 conference for Python to be on the web. 00:40:42.120 --> 00:40:45.820 And now we have app dev track, which is like not more than just web. 00:40:45.820 --> 00:40:47.100 We'll have a cloud track. 00:40:47.100 --> 00:40:49.480 We will have a PyData track. 00:40:49.580 --> 00:40:53.700 It's actually officially sanctioned PyData event. 00:40:53.700 --> 00:40:56.700 And we have a culture track in addition to the tutorial. 00:40:56.700 --> 00:41:00.220 So there is actually something for everybody in the Python world here. 00:41:00.220 --> 00:41:04.380 And we're really trying to, again, I mentioned filling the gap for people who can't make it 00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:05.200 to specific conferences. 00:41:05.200 --> 00:41:09.820 We're also trying to fill the gap for talks that I feel are a little more on the intermediate 00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:11.920 to advanced level. 00:41:11.920 --> 00:41:16.200 If you're looking for very entry-level tutorials, this may not be the conference for you. 00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:18.760 I mean, there'll be great community, lots of questions you can ask. 00:41:19.020 --> 00:41:19.660 There'll be tutorials. 00:41:19.660 --> 00:41:24.240 But I really wanted to make sure that the talks kind of scaled up that next notch. 00:41:24.240 --> 00:41:30.120 When I go to a lot of regional conferences or even PyCon, there's some entry-level stuff 00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:31.920 there that's great for people who are new to Python. 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:33.720 This is that next step. 00:41:33.720 --> 00:41:34.160 Cool. 00:41:34.160 --> 00:41:39.020 I don't need to cut you off, but can we see if Michael's got any extras? 00:41:39.460 --> 00:41:39.660 Yeah. 00:41:39.660 --> 00:41:39.760 Yeah. 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:40.660 I do. 00:41:40.660 --> 00:41:46.380 One, while Calvin's thing is up, I'm going to be speaking at that there conference about 00:41:46.380 --> 00:41:49.140 making your Python web apps fly with CDNs. 00:41:49.140 --> 00:41:50.300 Speaking of CDNs earlier. 00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:51.840 So I'm really excited about that one. 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:52.620 That's a fun topic. 00:41:53.520 --> 00:41:56.280 But I want to tell you a couple tips and tricks. 00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.740 I'll keep these short here, but they're kind of fun. 00:41:58.740 --> 00:42:06.540 So I recently discovered that with many of the browsers like Vivaldi or Chrome, sadly not 00:42:06.540 --> 00:42:06.900 Firefox. 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:09.140 Honestly, that's one of the reasons I quit using Firefox. 00:42:09.140 --> 00:42:12.620 They support progressive web apps, which many people may know. 00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:18.300 But even if you have a thing that is not a progressive web app, you can install it as a standalone, 00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:21.620 from your perspective, application that lives in the dock. 00:42:21.620 --> 00:42:26.100 So the thing I got on my screen and I linked to in the show notes is here's my Vivaldi, but 00:42:26.100 --> 00:42:28.520 then I have my different mail clients. 00:42:28.520 --> 00:42:31.180 I got ProtonMail and Gmail and I got the Google Calendar. 00:42:31.180 --> 00:42:33.340 All of those are just regular web apps. 00:42:33.340 --> 00:42:35.420 I don't think any of them are progressive web apps. 00:42:35.420 --> 00:42:39.000 But if you right click on the tab, you say create shortcut and say open in a window, they 00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:43.340 become their own little app that you put in your dock or your taskbar or whatever. 00:42:43.340 --> 00:42:47.260 So for example, like here's ProtonMail running. 00:42:47.260 --> 00:42:49.840 You can see, again, link in the show notes to the picture. 00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:51.180 And it just looks like an app. 00:42:51.180 --> 00:42:52.260 Like you would know it was an app. 00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:54.680 You'd think it was an ElectronJS app, basically. 00:42:54.680 --> 00:42:59.460 So if you want to have those as separate things, you're going to have running an Alt-Tab or Control-Tab 00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:00.000 over to you. 00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:00.660 There you go. 00:43:00.660 --> 00:43:03.040 Oh, no, I closed my browser and my mail's gone again. 00:43:03.040 --> 00:43:04.080 I got to open it back up. 00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:06.420 If that ever frustrates you, here's a cool fix for it. 00:43:06.420 --> 00:43:07.220 All right. 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:10.700 Also, speaking of Proton, I started using SimpleLogin. 00:43:10.700 --> 00:43:11.920 Have either of you all used this? 00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:12.440 No. 00:43:12.440 --> 00:43:17.480 So I have a pro account at Proton, which is like, I don't know, a couple dollars a month 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:20.220 for a bunch of years if you pay away in advance, I think. 00:43:20.220 --> 00:43:21.840 It's not very much. 00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:26.120 But along with that comes this thing called SimpleLogin, which every time you go to a 00:43:26.120 --> 00:43:30.280 website, I don't think I have the extension in this profile in my browser. 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:35.520 But if you go to a website, it suggests, hey, we'll create an automatic fake one-off email 00:43:35.520 --> 00:43:38.060 address that gets sent to wherever you decide it gets sent to. 00:43:38.060 --> 00:43:42.120 And you can reply to it and it goes back through there and things like that. 00:43:42.120 --> 00:43:42.600 It's really cool. 00:43:42.600 --> 00:43:48.880 So if I went to arstechnica.com and I created it, it would be like some random thing at 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:53.240 arstechnica-simple-logon-ish.io or whatever. 00:43:53.240 --> 00:43:54.920 So you kind of know where it comes from. 00:43:54.920 --> 00:43:59.780 But if you want to just delete that and make it mail stop or you can figure out if it's sold 00:43:59.780 --> 00:44:00.060 or whatever. 00:44:00.060 --> 00:44:02.800 So anyway, recommendation on checking that as well. 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:04.540 It's also open source. 00:44:04.620 --> 00:44:07.600 You can host it yourself if you like hosting email. 00:44:07.600 --> 00:44:11.100 I don't really feel like doing that. 00:44:11.100 --> 00:44:17.000 If you've heard about a new topic, if you've heard about all the crazy stuff with chips, 00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:20.500 the Chips Act in the US, similar stuff in Europe. 00:44:20.500 --> 00:44:26.980 If you've heard about Biden banning chips or the US government banning chips to be used in 00:44:26.980 --> 00:44:29.520 certain things, primarily in China. 00:44:29.520 --> 00:44:34.380 But there's a bunch of angles in which this kind of stuff is heating up. 00:44:34.420 --> 00:44:37.640 Not just with the US, but primarily around the US. 00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:44.400 There's an incredibly good documentary on YouTube called US vs. China, The War You Can't See 00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.180 that talks about the history of this. 00:44:46.180 --> 00:44:49.960 And it just reminds me of how much good stuff there is on YouTube. 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:54.320 I mean, I know there's a lot of stupid cats falling off of chairs and like idiots. 00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:56.840 But hidden in there, there are some... 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:02.140 This is a better documentary than you would find on professional top tier television networks. 00:45:02.140 --> 00:45:03.940 It's really good. 00:45:04.220 --> 00:45:06.340 Anyway, if that's interesting to you. 00:45:06.340 --> 00:45:09.200 I will second that documentary note. 00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:13.840 I have a 15-year-old here who's obsessed with long form YouTube. 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.300 And some of the things he has shown me has just blown my mind. 00:45:16.300 --> 00:45:20.060 Like why the superconducting super collider didn't succeed. 00:45:20.060 --> 00:45:22.600 Eight hours of like documentary on that. 00:45:22.600 --> 00:45:23.400 I was like, what? 00:45:23.900 --> 00:45:25.800 Yeah, there is no more Discovery Channel. 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.120 There's no more History Channel. 00:45:27.120 --> 00:45:27.700 Yeah. 00:45:27.700 --> 00:45:31.700 I know they exist in name, but not in what they were, where they actually have real science and 00:45:31.700 --> 00:45:32.340 real information. 00:45:32.340 --> 00:45:34.900 They're just reality TV and other silly stuff. 00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:36.340 So, all right. 00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:37.680 I know we'll get short on time, Brian. 00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:38.880 So, I'll go quick. 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.720 Talk Python's hiring. 00:45:41.020 --> 00:45:46.480 So, I'm looking to hire somebody that does Flutter and Dart, not Python. 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.080 Because if it's Python, I'd be doing it myself. 00:45:48.080 --> 00:45:52.820 But if you're out there and you have experience with publishing apps and Flutter apps in particular 00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:59.100 to the various app stores, if you're used to working on like Android and iOS and others with Flutter, 00:45:59.100 --> 00:46:02.580 and you can show me an app in the app store, I would love to work with you. 00:46:02.580 --> 00:46:07.180 I'm going to post this somewhere pretty soon, but I want to put it out to the community first 00:46:07.180 --> 00:46:11.000 because I'd rather hire somebody from our community than just some random person off the internet. 00:46:11.000 --> 00:46:15.940 And it's primarily to do a complete rework of our mobile apps for Talk Python training. 00:46:15.940 --> 00:46:17.280 So, that'll be a lot of fun. 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.100 If people are interested, just email me, michael at talkpython.fm. 00:46:22.100 --> 00:46:23.620 That's it. 00:46:23.620 --> 00:46:24.640 Those are all my extras. 00:46:24.640 --> 00:46:25.260 Yeah. 00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:25.960 Nice. 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.100 Calvin, thanks for being here. 00:46:28.100 --> 00:46:29.320 Thanks for having me. 00:46:29.320 --> 00:46:30.680 I really enjoy it. 00:46:30.680 --> 00:46:31.320 It's lots of fun. 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:33.280 I get to go learn new things each time I come. 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:36.020 Yeah, we do every time we show up as well. 00:46:36.020 --> 00:46:36.480 It's a lot of fun. 00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:36.600 Yep. 00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:36.980 All right. 00:46:36.980 --> 00:46:38.040 And Brian, thanks as always. 00:46:38.040 --> 00:46:38.700 Thank you.