WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.500 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:09.020 This is episode 363, recorded December 5th. 00:00:09.020 --> 00:00:09.800 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:10.760 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:10.760 --> 00:00:13.480 And this week we are sponsored by ourselves. 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:16.540 So we will plug our own stuff a little bit later. 00:00:16.540 --> 00:00:23.200 And if you want to follow the show, follow it at pythonbytes at fosstodon.org. 00:00:23.200 --> 00:00:28.700 And also Michael and I are both on Fosstodon as well, which is Mastodon. 00:00:28.700 --> 00:00:32.360 If you're anywhere other than Fosstodon also, that's fine. 00:00:32.360 --> 00:00:33.400 You can still follow us. 00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:37.380 But if you would like an invite, hit one of us up and we will send you an invite. 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:42.380 Mastodon has made it easier to start following people from other instances, by the way. 00:00:42.380 --> 00:00:43.740 I don't know if you remember how it used to be. 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:48.440 You'd go and somebody would be like at mass.to and it'd be like, sign in. 00:00:48.440 --> 00:00:50.320 And you couldn't follow them. 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:51.020 You have to sign in. 00:00:51.020 --> 00:00:52.260 You're like, but I have an account here. 00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:53.240 What is this weirdness? 00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:57.380 So now if you say follow, it'll pull a dropdown and say, you know, give me a few letters out of your 00:00:57.380 --> 00:01:01.240 instance and then we'll direct you over there where you're signed in to click follow. 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.080 So it's a little bit easier to follow anybody on Mastodon. 00:01:04.080 --> 00:01:05.560 It's still clunky. 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:06.980 I don't know why it's so hard. 00:01:06.980 --> 00:01:10.340 So what I usually do is I'm not trying that. 00:01:10.340 --> 00:01:16.460 I usually like pop somebody's whole, like say, at mkennedy at fosstodon.org or something. 00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:18.940 I pop it in the search, the search bar. 00:01:18.940 --> 00:01:20.400 That's what I did previously as well. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.600 Yeah. 00:01:20.600 --> 00:01:20.940 Yeah. 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:23.160 It usually, usually finds the person, right? 00:01:23.160 --> 00:01:23.580 So yeah. 00:01:23.580 --> 00:01:23.920 Yeah. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.960 You can even put just the whole URL of their profile without reordering it to their username. 00:01:27.960 --> 00:01:31.300 But if I'm trying to find the URL, that's sometimes, yeah. 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:32.320 Indeed. 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:33.120 All right. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:38.580 Well, it's Mastodon's getting a little smoother and actually Mastodon conversations are going 00:01:38.580 --> 00:01:41.200 to be featured at least in my, my stuff here somewhat heavily. 00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:42.920 So yeah, let's talk about FixIt. 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:46.180 So FixIt is this, what's the best way to put it? 00:01:46.180 --> 00:01:50.140 It's probably a Flake 8 like, they compare it to Flake 8. 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:56.380 This comes from Meta, AKA Facebook, and it's a linter for their monorepo. 00:01:56.380 --> 00:01:59.400 And when you hear monorepo, that is not a monolith. 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:04.380 Ironically, a lot of times the more broken up your code is, the more it fits a monorepo. 00:02:04.380 --> 00:02:08.240 But anyway, it's, they have literally a single repo. 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:08.760 Is it Git? 00:02:08.760 --> 00:02:09.260 I'm not sure. 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.700 But something like a single Git repo for all of Facebook, which is just insane. 00:02:13.700 --> 00:02:15.160 They want to lint that. 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:18.940 And they want to have things like Black applied to it. 00:02:18.940 --> 00:02:22.620 And Black actually came from Łukasz Langa, who was at Meta at the time. 00:02:22.620 --> 00:02:23.480 So kind of funny. 00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:24.740 But they don't use Black. 00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:26.680 I don't know why they don't use Black. 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:27.740 They have some reasons. 00:02:27.740 --> 00:02:32.840 Seems like Black saw some of them and could be probably adapted while Łukasz was there. 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:33.920 But anyway, they don't. 00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:38.260 So they had this thing called FixIt that goes through and is more like Black, 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:42.320 even though they compare it to Flake 8 in that it not just finds problems, 00:02:42.320 --> 00:02:47.620 but fixes them and normalizes things like, where do your commas go in a list? 00:02:47.620 --> 00:02:50.820 You know, or you have a plus to continue a line. 00:02:50.820 --> 00:02:53.400 Is that at the end of the one line or the beginning of the other line? 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:53.580 Right? 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:55.220 Those kinds of things we're all familiar with. 00:02:55.220 --> 00:02:57.140 So they built one called FixIt. 00:02:57.260 --> 00:03:01.000 And now they released another one called FixIt 2 that's supposed to be better. 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:04.600 And they open sourced it so people can check this out if they're interested. 00:03:04.600 --> 00:03:05.040 Right? 00:03:05.040 --> 00:03:06.600 So I'll tell you quick about it. 00:03:06.600 --> 00:03:07.740 A quick few things about it. 00:03:07.900 --> 00:03:10.940 And let's bump over to the Mastodon. 00:03:10.940 --> 00:03:11.700 Not the Mastodon. 00:03:11.700 --> 00:03:12.240 Omnivore. 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:12.960 Other thing. 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:13.380 Other thing. 00:03:13.380 --> 00:03:15.240 Because I have notes on this big, long thing. 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:21.020 So it turns out that Python is super popular over at Meta, which is really cool. 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:24.280 They have production engineers and software engineers. 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:28.040 So production engineers are like software devs who do production. 00:03:28.040 --> 00:03:29.540 Their main role is to do production. 00:03:29.540 --> 00:03:34.180 And they also have a whole Python language foundation team, which is pretty interesting. 00:03:34.180 --> 00:03:39.140 And the job of this team is basically to build tools for the rest of the team. 00:03:39.140 --> 00:03:40.660 And that's where this FixIt thing comes. 00:03:40.660 --> 00:03:46.860 So one question is like, why not just use, say, Black or Flake 8 or whatever, right? 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:47.220 Or Format. 00:03:47.220 --> 00:03:49.180 Well, hey, now we're getting there. 00:03:49.180 --> 00:03:49.420 Okay. 00:03:49.420 --> 00:03:52.600 So it says, of course, there's alternatives to Flake 8. 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:56.500 But, for example, Flake 8 doesn't fix things. 00:03:56.500 --> 00:03:58.460 It just tells you that there are errors. 00:03:58.460 --> 00:03:58.960 Yeah. 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.940 It has limited support. 00:04:01.940 --> 00:04:06.680 This is kind of interesting for hierarchical configurations for different projects within 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:07.300 a monorepo. 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:12.020 So even though it's a monorepo, maybe like the API gets formatted this way. 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:17.660 But the, I don't know, the DevOps decode gets a different set of configurations because it's 00:04:17.660 --> 00:04:18.160 a different team. 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:20.440 But you still want to just hit the repo with it, right? 00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:21.080 Interesting. 00:04:21.080 --> 00:04:21.740 Yeah. 00:04:21.740 --> 00:04:22.000 Yeah. 00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:24.900 That's an interesting, so there's, it's worth bringing up, I thought, because there are 00:04:24.900 --> 00:04:27.120 some interesting ideas and some interesting challenges. 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.420 Slow performance on code, on large code bases. 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:36.860 And then another thing that they do a lot is they plug in custom rules, blending rules and 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:37.540 correction rules. 00:04:37.540 --> 00:04:41.880 Like at a hierarchical level, which is kind of interesting, right? 00:04:41.880 --> 00:04:45.440 Now, Brian, I don't know, everyone sees it, but I have a list of these four things, these 00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:47.860 four reasons of why not just X. 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:54.080 Three of them are green because rough space format hits all of those. 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:55.320 Rough format didn't exist. 00:04:55.320 --> 00:05:00.820 And I honestly wonder if Ruff format existed, you know, this is, is this a thing that gets 00:05:00.820 --> 00:05:01.120 created? 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:01.940 I'm not sure. 00:05:01.940 --> 00:05:03.100 I mean, it's an open question. 00:05:03.440 --> 00:05:06.260 I didn't know that rough could do hierarchical configuration. 00:05:06.260 --> 00:05:07.300 I actually am. 00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:12.960 Well, what rough can do is you can have a ruff.toml that configures it at different levels. 00:05:12.960 --> 00:05:13.400 Right. 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:19.000 So given the number of engineers and the fact there's a single repo, how hard would it be 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:26.200 to automate, search this repo for all the ruff.tomls, run Ruff format dot in that working directory? 00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:26.740 Yeah. 00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:27.160 Done. 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:27.800 You know what I mean? 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:28.200 Right. 00:05:28.200 --> 00:05:32.020 It would, I don't think it inherently does, but in 30 minutes it does. 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:32.980 You know what I mean? 00:05:32.980 --> 00:05:33.200 Yeah. 00:05:33.200 --> 00:05:34.780 Of one person's time. 00:05:34.780 --> 00:05:39.200 So I wouldn't suspect like as a company, like, well, we couldn't possibly have somebody write 00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:39.860 that automation. 00:05:39.860 --> 00:05:41.300 That's way too much for us. 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:45.960 So, you know, so I think that obviously I don't believe that's a, you know, dash dash 00:05:45.960 --> 00:05:50.120 hierarchical sort of option, but I think that could easily, easily be added. 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:51.820 So that's pretty cool. 00:05:51.820 --> 00:05:57.180 It says even with, here's the irony is even with the one we built, the, it didn't contain 00:05:57.180 --> 00:06:01.040 the local rent, linting rules or the hierarchical configuration. 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.120 And those are the core requirements. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.880 So it's like, okay, well, we redesigned it to this new one. 00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:06.160 Right. 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:10.700 And what's interesting is it works on the, using the LibCST module. 00:06:10.700 --> 00:06:11.260 Okay. 00:06:11.460 --> 00:06:14.260 Which is a concrete syntax tree. 00:06:14.260 --> 00:06:18.860 You often hear of the AST or abstract syntax tree, which is like the intent of the code 00:06:18.860 --> 00:06:21.580 is to loop over this iterable, but it is not. 00:06:21.580 --> 00:06:26.260 The variable is named this and there's two spaces here and there's a comment, right? 00:06:26.260 --> 00:06:28.300 It tries to like throw away, just get to the essence. 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:31.620 But the CST is the code just in hierarchy form. 00:06:31.620 --> 00:06:33.620 And which means if you want to fix it, right? 00:06:33.620 --> 00:06:36.980 That's way more applicable for, these kinds of tools here. 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:38.660 So anyway, people can check it out. 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:39.460 It's on PyPI. 00:06:39.460 --> 00:06:43.260 And I think it's an, it's an interesting thing to contrast with rough. 00:06:43.260 --> 00:06:44.420 So yeah. 00:06:44.420 --> 00:06:44.880 Yeah. 00:06:44.880 --> 00:06:46.020 Anyway, it's out there for people. 00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:51.900 It's obviously tested on some pretty seriously large code bases and it could be interesting, 00:06:51.900 --> 00:06:57.560 but I'm still going to rough space format dot for my, for my money. 00:06:57.560 --> 00:06:58.460 Yeah. 00:06:58.460 --> 00:06:58.940 Yeah. 00:06:58.940 --> 00:07:05.820 Interesting comment from a grant, in the chat, another YAML file for each, sub 00:07:05.820 --> 00:07:08.340 project as opposed to supporting PyProject.com. 00:07:08.700 --> 00:07:08.940 Yuck. 00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:08.980 Yuck. 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:10.820 But you know, totally fair. 00:07:10.820 --> 00:07:16.020 In this case, I think it might be like, you gotta remember this isn't just Python, right? 00:07:16.020 --> 00:07:18.180 This is like every bit of code at Facebook. 00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:18.920 Oh yeah. 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:19.480 Right. 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:24.900 So it's, it's probably react PHP, optimize PHP, go. 00:07:24.900 --> 00:07:26.380 I, who knows how much stuff is in there. 00:07:26.380 --> 00:07:28.340 Gobs of config files in each project. 00:07:28.340 --> 00:07:28.620 Yes. 00:07:28.620 --> 00:07:29.260 It's yeah. 00:07:29.260 --> 00:07:33.180 I mean, you wouldn't want all the configs for all the languages all mixed together. 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:33.480 Right. 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.160 So anyway, but still interesting, interesting stuff. 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:38.880 Anyway, all right. 00:07:38.880 --> 00:07:41.180 how would you like to talk about user interfaces? 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:45.420 No, we have been known to go on a GUI kick before. 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:47.740 It's been a while. 00:07:47.740 --> 00:07:48.320 Let's do it. 00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:48.600 Yeah. 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:49.060 I'm here for it. 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:49.520 All right. 00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:53.760 So, Samuel Colvin, the, make it fast, Brian. 00:07:53.760 --> 00:07:56.580 That was funny. 00:07:56.580 --> 00:08:03.840 the, the person that brought us, Pydantic is, has, has worked very closely with, 00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:05.240 uh, FastAPI as well. 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:07.620 So FastAPI and Pydantic work great together. 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:09.320 Now there's fast UI. 00:08:09.320 --> 00:08:15.020 Well, fast UI is working with, FastAPI, but it also works with other stuff too. 00:08:15.020 --> 00:08:21.800 So, so a Samuel Colvin has just recently brought us fast UI, which is, looks like an 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:22.760 active development. 00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:29.000 It's been modified five hours ago and the, it's already got, but it only, I only heard 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:33.860 about it like last week and, it's now at 1.8 thousand stars. 00:08:33.860 --> 00:08:35.240 that's pretty awesome. 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:35.660 Anyway. 00:08:35.660 --> 00:08:42.480 so what's this, it is supposedly a, it's still a work in progress. 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:49.340 So not production ready, but it's a way to build app web applications and web UIs, defined 00:08:49.340 --> 00:08:51.220 by declarative Python code. 00:08:51.220 --> 00:08:53.620 So, there's a few points around this. 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:56.800 It's, so it's for, there's a bunch of parts of it. 00:08:56.860 --> 00:09:02.280 It's, it's a pipe UI package, fast UI, but so it brings in some models and some 00:09:02.280 --> 00:09:03.580 UI elements and components. 00:09:03.580 --> 00:09:05.760 it's also an MPM package. 00:09:05.760 --> 00:09:09.400 So you, it brings in a little, react type script stuff. 00:09:09.400 --> 00:09:12.600 the, so what does it really mean though? 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:18.140 It means that you can kind of look at in, in, there's a couple examples he shows, you 00:09:18.140 --> 00:09:26.000 declare it kind of like this, you're declaring, is sort of for a, or a FastAPI endpoint 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:27.840 like user table or something like that. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:28.640 That's an endpoint. 00:09:28.640 --> 00:09:35.500 It's going to, return this thing that doesn't look like HTML and it doesn't quite look like 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:41.280 Python either, but it is, it's like a, there's a C page object, which wraps the page. 00:09:41.280 --> 00:09:46.100 There's components inside, which is a list of things like headings and a table. 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:51.020 And it, it, I don't really know what this looks like, but it's not bad. 00:09:51.020 --> 00:09:54.740 so I'm kind of excited to play with it. 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:59.900 But in a few lines of code, he shows a fairly workable, clean looking user interface. 00:09:59.900 --> 00:10:06.320 And then, along with it, for the release, he released a full demo, which you can walk 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:11.500 through, a UI demo that was really zippy and works pretty good. 00:10:11.500 --> 00:10:16.260 Like the tables one is kind of fun because it shows like, a whole bunch of names and 00:10:16.260 --> 00:10:18.500 popular of names of cities and populations. 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:22.320 And you can quickly filter by country and it's like super fast. 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.320 So, I think you get kind of a lot for not much work. 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.260 If the, if the workflow looks okay. 00:10:30.260 --> 00:10:32.320 So you've done more UIs than I have. 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:33.260 What do you think of this? 00:10:33.260 --> 00:10:34.180 It's interesting. 00:10:34.180 --> 00:10:35.100 Okay. 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:40.900 so when I think of building web apps for myself, I don't shy away from saying, oh, I 00:10:40.900 --> 00:10:46.100 have to write HTML or there has to be a template model or something like that. 00:10:46.100 --> 00:10:46.220 Right. 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:47.360 That's, that's okay for me. 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:47.760 Yeah. 00:10:47.980 --> 00:10:53.040 But I've been doing it for 15 years, at least I would say probably started doing web stuff 00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:53.680 in 2000. 00:10:53.680 --> 00:10:55.360 So that's a little bit more than that. 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:56.800 Anyway, that's a long time. 00:10:56.800 --> 00:11:00.240 And so I'm super comfortable with it, but I know there's a lot of use cases where I just 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.340 want something quick and easy. 00:11:01.340 --> 00:11:06.640 I want a simple deployment or I'm not a web developer and I just want to get this up and 00:11:06.640 --> 00:11:06.960 going. 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:07.920 I like it. 00:11:07.920 --> 00:11:15.980 a lot of the sort of low code zero HTML styles of that I've seen like, oh, here you 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:21.600 can do it in Python have kind of a top to bottom linear way of creating the code. 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.500 And I super dislike that, right? 00:11:23.500 --> 00:11:25.200 Like first I'm going to create a page object. 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.260 Then I'm going to say page.components.add. 00:11:27.260 --> 00:11:29.840 Then I'm going to go page.components.add. 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:34.240 And then I'll get a table and I'll say table.rows.add, you know, like, wow, like makes it really 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:36.820 hard to see the visual look. 00:11:36.820 --> 00:11:40.800 So you go check out the fast UI, GitHub readme. 00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:45.300 You'll see that the structure and the indentation of the code matches the DOM. 00:11:45.300 --> 00:11:46.580 And that's quite nice. 00:11:46.580 --> 00:11:47.080 Yeah. 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:48.840 So I really liked that aspect of it. 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:54.500 it reminds me a lot of Flutter where you write code in the exact same way. 00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:59.620 You've got, I don't know if you call it a DOM, but whatever the widget graph is in called 00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:01.780 in Flutter, you do the same type of thing. 00:12:01.780 --> 00:12:07.040 Like you, you'd have a body and then the body has a child and then the child can be some complex 00:12:07.040 --> 00:12:07.480 thing. 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.680 And it's all inherited, nested in a very, very similar way. 00:12:10.680 --> 00:12:12.640 So yeah, I think it's super interesting. 00:12:12.640 --> 00:12:14.220 I think it will empower a lot of people. 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:18.340 I like the structure of the code matches the thing you're building. 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:20.140 That makes it way more appealing to me. 00:12:20.140 --> 00:12:21.700 Cause that's part of what's nice about HTML. 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:25.240 You go in there and you're like, you're in the table and you're indented in the table 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:25.740 visually. 00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:26.340 You know what I mean? 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:26.800 Yeah. 00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:27.360 Yeah. 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.800 The, and there's, there's, there's a lot of fun stuff here too. 00:12:31.020 --> 00:12:35.640 So even like forms and stuff that you can do with, even server side validation. 00:12:35.640 --> 00:12:43.380 So, that it's not just a component library, but also some, some react and some other 00:12:43.380 --> 00:12:45.340 things going with it is pretty cool. 00:12:45.340 --> 00:12:50.880 The, Kim brings up, something that I thought of directly for myself. 00:12:50.880 --> 00:12:56.500 he says it's got a lot of appeal for enterprise grade web apps where boring, simple table layout 00:12:56.500 --> 00:12:57.640 is more than enough. 00:12:57.780 --> 00:13:03.840 And, I'm kind of thinking of it, I was thinking of it kind of like that, a dataset 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:04.620 sort of thing. 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:09.540 If basically I've got a database that I want to front in for, but if, but I, you know, it's 00:13:09.540 --> 00:13:12.960 not necessarily SQL or something or dataset just freaks me out maybe. 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.140 but something like this is I think pretty nice. 00:13:17.140 --> 00:13:21.980 And I think a lot of enterprise projects will be using, using this to play with. 00:13:21.980 --> 00:13:26.740 So yeah, I'm actually thinking about it for my own, for an internal project myself. 00:13:26.740 --> 00:13:27.640 So yeah, sure. 00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:28.360 It looks quite neat. 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:30.220 And being based on FastAPI. 00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:30.840 Yeah. 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:37.940 boy, would it be cool if there was a run it locally as an electron app like thing where, 00:13:37.940 --> 00:13:42.680 where the electron app shipped with Python and just ran a hidden building user. 00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:48.320 So like it becomes a, make it a thing, an exe or a dot app I could share with my users. 00:13:48.800 --> 00:13:49.240 Yeah. 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:50.620 But yeah, I agree. 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:52.580 I agree with Kim that forms over data. 00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:53.360 This nails it. 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:53.540 Yeah. 00:13:53.540 --> 00:13:58.860 And like you said, if, I mean, a most web app, a web, a lot of web developers, it doesn't 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:02.160 take that much web training to, to write some HTML. 00:14:02.500 --> 00:14:09.040 I mean, to do it well, it takes a little bit, but, but to do it good enough for a lot 00:14:09.040 --> 00:14:10.620 of projects, it's not bad. 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:17.320 And, or a normal HTML, CSS and the normal tool chain is still pretty good or build a 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:18.360 Django app or something. 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.880 But, there's a lot of people that don't even, that don't even want to get into it at 00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:23.260 all. 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.820 So I think this is a good fit for that. 00:14:25.820 --> 00:14:27.740 So anyway, indeed. 00:14:27.740 --> 00:14:31.540 And Chris may ask about, you know, Hey, I wonder what the escape hatch story is. 00:14:31.540 --> 00:14:34.840 That's always a good question when you're in a framework that kind of defines so much for 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:34.980 you. 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:38.420 Like, well, what if I went a little bit more, then what? 00:14:38.420 --> 00:14:39.380 So yeah. 00:14:39.380 --> 00:14:40.060 Yeah. 00:14:40.060 --> 00:14:45.420 Brian, is it a good time to remind people that maybe they should check out a course or two? 00:14:45.420 --> 00:14:46.420 Yeah, sure. 00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:48.520 Let's, I will. 00:14:48.520 --> 00:14:52.820 So I'll, I'll remind people that this, this episode is brought to you by both of us, 00:14:52.820 --> 00:14:53.540 Michael and Brian. 00:14:53.540 --> 00:15:00.140 And the thing that I've been working on a lot lately is courses, courses, python 00:15:00.140 --> 00:15:01.500 test.com. 00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:04.580 And that is the complete by test course. 00:15:04.580 --> 00:15:06.500 And, it's almost done. 00:15:06.500 --> 00:15:07.460 We'll be done this month. 00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:12.500 I've got 13 out of 16 chapters done so far and it will grow then. 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:17.260 after, after I've gone through the entire Python testing with my test book, there's extras 00:15:17.260 --> 00:15:17.540 there. 00:15:17.540 --> 00:15:22.280 And as I've noted before, there's a lot of stuff at the end, that has changed a 00:15:22.280 --> 00:15:25.780 lot like talks and CI and things, since the book came out. 00:15:25.780 --> 00:15:27.300 So, it's pretty excited. 00:15:27.300 --> 00:15:28.540 So how about you? 00:15:28.540 --> 00:15:28.960 Sure. 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:29.220 Yeah. 00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:29.840 Very awesome. 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.880 I would just want to like highlight maybe some of our new courses. 00:15:32.880 --> 00:15:38.460 We have an early access Visual Studio Code for Python developers course, which is partway 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:40.360 done, but available in early access mode. 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:44.360 If you want to check that out, we have a data science jumpstart with 10 projects from Matt 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:50.660 Harrison and, HTMX plus Django course by Christopher Trudeau. 00:15:50.660 --> 00:15:55.080 So all of those are excellent and we've got plenty more coming as well. 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:56.240 So people should check those out. 00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:56.620 Sweet. 00:15:56.620 --> 00:15:57.160 All right. 00:15:57.160 --> 00:15:58.240 Let's go to Mastodon. 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.180 So this one's not exactly Python, but there are Python elements to it. 00:16:03.180 --> 00:16:07.760 And basically I said, like, we talked about this after the show and I thought, you know, 00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:10.280 why don't I just have this conversation for people out there? 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:11.100 I'll throw out a list. 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:12.980 It's like, I've got a bunch of emails. 00:16:12.980 --> 00:16:15.400 want to be able to reach out to people. 00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:19.620 I want to run a newsletter or I want to run a training company in a podcast, you know, 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:21.140 and wouldn't gather those up. 00:16:21.140 --> 00:16:25.700 And for many years I've been using MailChimp and they just increasingly rubbed me the wrong 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:25.960 way. 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:27.140 It's just on principle. 00:16:27.140 --> 00:16:29.660 I'm not super keen about it. 00:16:29.660 --> 00:16:34.040 Like three months ago, like, oh, we got to raise our prices because the database storage 00:16:34.040 --> 00:16:37.640 for your 20 K or whatever it turns out to be is really rough. 00:16:37.640 --> 00:16:38.740 So it's another a hundred dollars. 00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:41.020 Then the next month, like, oh, we're going to need to raise our prices. 00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:44.020 It's another a hundred dollars on top of the previous another a hundred dollars. 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.760 And she's like, I'm not really using a lot of this. 00:16:46.760 --> 00:16:48.640 And it's, I kind of want to look for something else. 00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:48.860 Right. 00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:52.140 So I went to Mastodon and said, Hey folks, MailChimp alternatives. 00:16:52.140 --> 00:16:56.520 And boy, oh boy, do we get like a ton of conversation about this. 00:16:56.520 --> 00:17:03.580 And so I've gathered this all up and put the results of that into, into a list that I 00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:04.900 posted on the show notes. 00:17:04.900 --> 00:17:08.340 So I just want to run through this really quick because there's some interesting choices 00:17:08.340 --> 00:17:11.340 for people that have like small or large mailing lists. 00:17:11.340 --> 00:17:11.600 Right. 00:17:11.600 --> 00:17:15.540 So they come from all these different places and interesting choices. 00:17:15.540 --> 00:17:21.620 So for example, one of them is called email octopus because it can how much it can send 00:17:21.620 --> 00:17:26.260 like eight times as much email as like a regular, maybe for like a two handed creature with all 00:17:26.260 --> 00:17:26.960 of its eight arms. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:27.800 It can really send email. 00:17:27.800 --> 00:17:28.060 Now. 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:30.760 So this one is email marketing, which is kind of interesting. 00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:37.500 There's list monk, which is an open source free self-hosted newsletter and mailing list manager. 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.360 Interesting. 00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:38.620 Right. 00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:40.160 With 12,000 GitHub stars. 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.860 There's Calia, which, is similar is also open source. 00:17:44.860 --> 00:17:46.840 Gemacht in Deutschland made in Germany. 00:17:46.840 --> 00:17:47.840 Very, very cool. 00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:49.640 It looks kind of visually nice. 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:49.920 Right. 00:17:50.340 --> 00:17:57.260 There's Millie Harold, which is a Ruby on rails one also self-hosted, which is kind of fun. 00:17:57.260 --> 00:17:59.100 There's send portal again. 00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:01.640 So I didn't know about so many of these open source ones. 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:05.700 And that's kind of why I thought my, it might be interesting to point this out to people on 00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:06.000 the show. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.160 Right. 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.120 Like there's actually a bunch of open source ones. 00:18:08.120 --> 00:18:10.580 Quite sadly, I haven't found a decent Python one. 00:18:10.780 --> 00:18:14.360 So there's that there's Brevo, which is another one. 00:18:14.360 --> 00:18:15.680 button down. 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:19.360 This one is not open source, but it is made with Python open source. 00:18:19.360 --> 00:18:23.180 So I talked to the guy who runs button down and this one is written in Django. 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:29.020 So if you want your newsletters powered by Django, I don't think it's open source, but anyway, 00:18:29.020 --> 00:18:30.800 pretty, pretty neat option there. 00:18:30.800 --> 00:18:33.540 There's Zoho, which is pretty cool. 00:18:33.540 --> 00:18:34.320 Cindy. 00:18:34.320 --> 00:18:35.500 Here's another cool one. 00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:40.760 Cindy as also self-hosted, but you, it's not open source, but you buy it. 00:18:40.760 --> 00:18:44.480 It wants for like $70 and then you run it on your system. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:49.700 And what's cool is it hooks into AWS SES, which is our simple email service, which if 00:18:49.700 --> 00:18:51.340 you send a bunch of emails, you probably have. 00:18:51.340 --> 00:18:53.000 I don't, I do, but I don't use it. 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:56.300 I have SendGrid, which it also works with and mail jet and elastic email. 00:18:56.300 --> 00:19:00.320 And the thing that's cool about these is you can send like 10,000 emails for a dollar. 00:19:00.320 --> 00:19:01.240 Right. 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:02.760 And it's based on consumption, right? 00:19:02.760 --> 00:19:08.420 Like even if I don't send a mail in MailChimp, it's many hundreds of dollars to just say, well, 00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:10.200 we're going to keep your database records fresh for you. 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:11.120 We'll sit here. 00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:15.340 But this one, it's like, you know, they say a hundred times cheaper. 00:19:15.340 --> 00:19:19.040 I mean, obviously it matters how you use it, but you plug it into one of these super, super 00:19:19.040 --> 00:19:21.080 simple things and they'll even set it up for you. 00:19:21.080 --> 00:19:25.000 You can pay them like another 70 bucks and they'll set up a server and a Ubuntu server or 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:25.460 Linux server. 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:26.240 I'll set it for you. 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:28.520 So this is the one I'm actually thinking of going with potentially. 00:19:28.520 --> 00:19:35.520 And there's ConvertKit, Mautic, I don't know, open source marketing instead of just email, 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:37.020 Constant Contact. 00:19:37.520 --> 00:19:41.280 I don't have any relations with any of these, by the way, folks, get response, ConvertKit, 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:42.120 all of those. 00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:48.200 So if you want to see the Mastodon conversation about why people suggested them, some people 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.760 are like, oh, I worked with that, but it sucks. 00:19:49.760 --> 00:19:50.540 Don't use that. 00:19:50.540 --> 00:19:51.880 And so on. 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:52.560 You can check it out. 00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:56.520 So I thought there's probably enough people out there who are going like, I have this 00:19:56.520 --> 00:19:59.480 problem and I just see so many choices and what are they? 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:00.480 Maybe there's open source. 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:01.600 Maybe there's some Python thing. 00:20:01.600 --> 00:20:02.340 So there it is. 00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:05.540 So we don't have a solution, but you've got something. 00:20:05.540 --> 00:20:06.160 Well, I'll. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:09.300 Well, I can report back to people how things go. 00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:11.280 So it's a fork in the road for me. 00:20:11.280 --> 00:20:11.800 Right. 00:20:11.800 --> 00:20:12.180 Yeah. 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.520 On one hand, I don't really do. 00:20:14.520 --> 00:20:16.100 I don't do any tracking of people. 00:20:16.100 --> 00:20:19.680 And so I don't know, like retargeting and all these kind of like campaigns where like, if 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.220 you come and visit this page, but then two days you visit that page, then we're going to 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.920 send, you know, like that kind of stuff. 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:25.800 I don't really do that. 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:28.520 So I just basically send emails to people. 00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:32.600 And in that case, right, you should be looking at something simpler. 00:20:32.600 --> 00:20:34.540 Maybe one of those open source ones is pretty nice. 00:20:34.540 --> 00:20:40.020 But if you want to do really interesting automations, which maybe I should look into, I don't know. 00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:43.180 Then maybe one of the real simple ones is not the right choice. 00:20:43.180 --> 00:20:47.740 So I should either go way more simpler or more advanced, but I'm in this like middle ground 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:50.520 paying tons of money for something that I don't really appreciate. 00:20:50.520 --> 00:20:53.120 And I've also finally wrapping this, put a bow on this. 00:20:53.260 --> 00:20:57.480 People have said, well, you know, you can just use mail merge with Excel, with Google 00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.140 sheets and like send it out of your Gmail. 00:20:59.140 --> 00:21:00.880 Like, no, that's awesome. 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:06.060 If you want to, if you run like a, like a soccer team and you want to send them a message or 00:21:06.060 --> 00:21:06.720 something like that. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:08.880 But if you have to be subjected to the U.S. 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:14.980 Can't spam act, the GDPR, people delete my stuff, delete my, my info you have on me. 00:21:14.980 --> 00:21:17.180 I want to unsubscribe. 00:21:17.180 --> 00:21:20.220 I want to partially unsubscribe or my mail bounced. 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:21.340 And then you got to stop sending it. 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:25.040 Like all of that, you can't just like automate send. 00:21:25.040 --> 00:21:26.840 Even out of send grade is not enough, right? 00:21:26.840 --> 00:21:29.580 You need to have a whole backend that like deals with all that crap. 00:21:29.580 --> 00:21:32.460 And that's what a lot of these like open source ones bring. 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:33.900 So anyway, pretty cool. 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:40.660 Newsletter is having a newsletter is more complicated than people think because it, it's just is. 00:21:40.660 --> 00:21:43.060 It's way more complicated. 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:49.080 And the weird thing that like the first time I tried to set one up was that you have to put your address down. 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:52.580 And, it's, it's kind of a weird work. 00:21:52.580 --> 00:21:55.060 It makes sense, but also it's weird. 00:21:55.060 --> 00:21:56.640 But it kind of doesn't make sense. 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:58.280 It kind of doesn't make sense. 00:21:58.280 --> 00:21:58.700 Yeah. 00:21:58.700 --> 00:21:59.200 Yeah. 00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.900 Like, yeah. 00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:01.540 I really just have to put my house there. 00:22:01.540 --> 00:22:02.400 What can I put there? 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.120 Like, but because the U S can't spam act, I think is the reason that that is there. 00:22:06.120 --> 00:22:09.260 And yeah, you know, that's the government, right? 00:22:09.260 --> 00:22:15.960 Like maybe we should have cook up cookie banners that everyone clicks like five times an hour a day for the rest of their life. 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.120 That's going to make things better. 00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:22.680 Well, you know, I used to like, I know we've done this enough, but sorry about that. 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:28.160 the, I used to do MailChimp, but I had a PO box set up just for that. 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.220 And I was like, I don't use it for anything. 00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:35.440 So instead of paying the post office, I switched to paying a convert kit because convert. 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.400 One of the things convert kit does is you can use their address, which, which is interesting. 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:44.420 but, I'm, I'm, I'm still on the fence on convert kit. 00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:45.080 I'm trying it out. 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:45.880 So we'll see. 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:46.420 Yeah. 00:22:46.420 --> 00:22:50.220 We can both report back to people and see, but it's tricky stuff. 00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:51.800 So anyway, hopefully it helps the folks. 00:22:51.800 --> 00:22:56.260 Now completely change of gears, back to command line interfaces. 00:22:56.260 --> 00:23:01.180 I talked about user interfaces, on GUIs, but let's talk CLIs a little bit. 00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:04.740 so back on episode, what was it? 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:05.640 361. 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:07.540 We talked about appeal. 00:23:07.540 --> 00:23:13.420 and I've talked about art person click and typer and stuff like that before appeal was another one. 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:21.640 and, and this all came out because I did an episode on, on Python test about, art parse applications and testing. 00:23:22.260 --> 00:23:33.920 So somebody actually Sander 76, on fostered on, contacted me and said, Hey, there's a bunch of other options other than the ones you've covered so far. 00:23:34.040 --> 00:23:35.040 have you looked at this? 00:23:35.040 --> 00:23:36.240 have you looked at these and how do you test them? 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.740 I don't have an answer about how to test them, but I was interested in this whole kind of line of things. 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:56.340 So there's a, there's a, a, a, a, a set of command line interface tools that instead of, instead of art parse style or something of telling, you know, defining flags, they define it based on an object, a configurable object. 00:23:56.560 --> 00:24:02.480 So, let's, his, clip stick for instance, let's, let's start with Tyro. 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.260 This is one of the early ones. 00:24:04.260 --> 00:24:05.680 It's kind of easy to figure out. 00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:16.540 Tyro is a, is a command line interface, tool that you can use, data classes or Pydantic or attrs to define the, the, all the options. 00:24:16.540 --> 00:24:20.980 So for instance, here's an example it was showing the video. 00:24:20.980 --> 00:24:29.220 you can take a, you import Tyro and then you define a data class with, types on, on a bunch of arcs. 00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:34.360 You just, it doesn't matter what it is, what's called, but you have a class with a bunch of elements in it. 00:24:34.360 --> 00:24:37.160 And those are the things that you can pass to your application now. 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:42.500 And then you just, you, you implement a Tyro CLI, application. 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.500 That's, that's the arguments. 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:47.920 And that's, it's kind of cool on parsing arcs that way. 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:50.060 so that, that's Tyro. 00:24:50.060 --> 00:24:53.640 And then there's, there's clip stick, which is kind of cute. 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:54.640 Like CLI. 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.060 Yeah. 00:24:56.060 --> 00:25:05.380 Anyway, that defines, defines all of your types within a, a base model, like from Pydantic, Pydantic base model. 00:25:05.380 --> 00:25:07.660 And then you can define a whole bunch of types in there. 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:11.400 and then you can, and it has help and all that stuff. 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.580 So basing it on, on, on, Pydantic object. 00:25:14.580 --> 00:25:21.820 And then also there's, there's a, a, nicely designed website called, with, Pydantic art parse. 00:25:21.820 --> 00:25:23.800 So art parse with Pydantic. 00:25:23.800 --> 00:25:29.840 So there's another one that's, defining, arguments based on a base model. 00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:32.960 and I just, I haven't played with these yet. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:43.780 I just wanted to report back that these are some different ways to, to set up user interfaces using, using like Pydantic or data classes or attrs or something like that. 00:25:43.780 --> 00:25:44.040 Yeah. 00:25:44.040 --> 00:25:45.240 As an object. 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:55.800 And then, and then you have, instead of, you get like this Arga, Args object, instead of having a whole bunch of different elements, you have like this object with all of your arguments that you can pass around. 00:25:55.800 --> 00:25:59.000 And since it's things like Pydantic, you can do things. 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:03.680 I'm, I haven't played with it, but I'm guessing that you can do things like limit the scope. 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:08.300 So it's not just an integer, but it's an integer between one and five or something like that. 00:26:08.300 --> 00:26:09.060 right. 00:26:09.060 --> 00:26:09.400 Yeah. 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:09.720 That's cool. 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:10.240 Yeah. 00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:11.340 So these are fun. 00:26:11.340 --> 00:26:12.460 Those are super fun. 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:12.880 Yeah. 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:14.040 Pydantic is great. 00:26:14.260 --> 00:26:18.620 Typing for this kind of stuff is great because it, it's usually not open-ended, right? 00:26:18.620 --> 00:26:19.660 That should be a number. 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:23.540 And if it's not, it's going to be a problem or that should be a string for the host name. 00:26:23.540 --> 00:26:23.960 Yeah. 00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:24.400 It's required. 00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:27.400 All these things like really map over to that validation side of Pydantic. 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:32.020 But I do want to, so, from, Sandra 76 is a question. 00:26:32.020 --> 00:26:34.960 How do you test these or, or is testing easier? 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.680 it is a good question. 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:43.560 And I, it, I've put it on my to-do list for January, January or sometime in 2024 to take a look at. 00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:45.960 So I'll have to report back about that also. 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:46.380 Yeah. 00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:46.840 Very nice. 00:26:46.840 --> 00:26:47.400 Very nice. 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:54.040 So it's the, Samuel Colvin and team day for you with fast UI and the Pydantic based stuff. 00:26:54.040 --> 00:26:54.460 Yeah, indeed. 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:55.120 Good stuff. 00:26:55.120 --> 00:26:55.560 So. 00:26:55.560 --> 00:26:56.120 All right. 00:26:56.120 --> 00:26:57.200 Extras. 00:26:57.200 --> 00:26:58.100 You want me to do mine first? 00:26:58.100 --> 00:26:58.640 Yeah. 00:26:58.640 --> 00:26:59.520 Let's hit yours first. 00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:00.040 All right. 00:27:00.040 --> 00:27:01.780 Well, I have one and it's super quick. 00:27:01.780 --> 00:27:09.420 So I just, you know, there was this, announcement here that Google is, Google Chrome in particular 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:16.080 is looking to limit ad blockers and start like limiting how much control people have over their 00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:22.640 privacy and data and stuff with what's called the manifest V three, API for basically for 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:24.400 using, extensions. 00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:30.840 And the main rule here is that they're limiting how many domains and rules you can apply to block 00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:32.760 basically to limit network traffic. 00:27:32.760 --> 00:27:38.100 So you can say, well, there's 500 ads you can block, but those are the only 500, right? 00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:39.040 Which really limits it. 00:27:39.040 --> 00:27:40.540 So people are whining. 00:27:40.540 --> 00:27:42.000 I'm like, you know, why don't I just write an article? 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.300 Because like I could turn all that stuff off and I don't care at my house. 00:27:46.300 --> 00:27:51.080 And you could too, just instead of worrying about what these browsers are doing, just go 00:27:51.080 --> 00:27:52.720 and turn on a network level ad blocker. 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.860 Like you can use next DNS, which I've talked about before, or you can, if you want to run 00:27:56.860 --> 00:27:59.620 your own server and only have it when you're home, you can do this pie hole. 00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:04.260 I know that's super awesome, but next DNS is a service, which so when you're at the 00:28:04.260 --> 00:28:08.980 coffee shop or traveling or on your phone, you can also have the benefit of pie hole. 00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:12.820 But anyway, I talked a lot about how, how that works and how you set it up with some cool 00:28:12.820 --> 00:28:17.460 graphs, like it's like 10,000 block queries on my network for just two people for a little 00:28:17.460 --> 00:28:17.660 bit. 00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:19.080 And also this is all great. 00:28:19.080 --> 00:28:22.760 Once you set this up though, when you get to a place that says, Hey, you have to disable 00:28:22.760 --> 00:28:25.540 your ad blocker or you can't watch this movie, read this article. 00:28:25.540 --> 00:28:26.240 You're like, you know what? 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.740 I hate you, but just for a minute, I have to do this because I really, really need to get 00:28:29.740 --> 00:28:29.900 here. 00:28:29.900 --> 00:28:32.360 It talks about how you can set up a second browser. 00:28:32.360 --> 00:28:37.260 Like for me, it's Firefox, not Vivaldi, like Vivaldi's my own, but Firefox, I set it up 00:28:37.260 --> 00:28:42.920 to use a DNS over HTTPS, but one that doesn't block like Cloudflare or something that doesn't 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:43.400 filter anything. 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:47.900 So if I have to escape my, my blocking network for whatever reason, I can just run Firefox 00:28:47.900 --> 00:28:52.840 and it tunnels out of all this restrictions, which is usually nice, but when you need to turn 00:28:52.840 --> 00:28:54.000 it off, you got to turn it off. 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.100 So there's quick article essay, whatever you want to call it for people to check out. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:58.480 Yeah. 00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.060 Things like that still bug me though. 00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:02.380 Like the turn off ad blockers. 00:29:02.380 --> 00:29:07.060 There's, it's not, can't be that high of a percentage of the population that's turning them off. 00:29:07.060 --> 00:29:08.780 So yeah, I know. 00:29:08.780 --> 00:29:09.120 Weird. 00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:09.560 Yeah. 00:29:09.560 --> 00:29:13.900 There was a, one show was like Peacock or Paramount. 00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:20.120 One of those streaming platforms would not let my wife watch some show because it says she 00:29:20.120 --> 00:29:20.940 had her ad blocker on. 00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:21.740 Of course she didn't. 00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:24.460 She had, she was on the wifi, which was blocking everything. 00:29:24.740 --> 00:29:29.520 and also the side of the extra benefit here is this means your mobile apps have ad 00:29:29.520 --> 00:29:30.340 blockers built in. 00:29:30.340 --> 00:29:32.340 This means your TV has an ad blocker built in. 00:29:32.340 --> 00:29:35.300 This means like everything has an ad blocker built in, not just your browser. 00:29:35.300 --> 00:29:35.680 Right. 00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:40.500 So, all this whinging over, like whether or not you're, you can do blocking in a browser, 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:43.640 like, you know, you could just do better and it's not even your problem anymore. 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:43.980 Right. 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:46.780 So yeah, it was super. 00:29:46.780 --> 00:29:48.560 She's like, well, Michael, how do I watch this? 00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:50.160 I'm like, I don't know, actually. 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.820 I'm sorry, but I don't want to turn it off for the whole everything. 00:29:52.820 --> 00:29:53.160 Right. 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:54.620 Like, I just want to let you watch your movies. 00:29:54.620 --> 00:29:55.260 How do you do that? 00:29:55.260 --> 00:29:56.160 So that's in there as well. 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:56.540 Yeah. 00:29:56.540 --> 00:29:57.240 Okay, cool. 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:57.820 Nice. 00:29:57.820 --> 00:29:58.380 Okay. 00:29:58.380 --> 00:29:59.800 I've got a few extras. 00:29:59.800 --> 00:30:01.280 won't take long though. 00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:03.380 Django five released yesterday. 00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:07.020 we've already talked about all the cool features of Django five. 00:30:07.020 --> 00:30:07.360 Didn't we? 00:30:07.360 --> 00:30:08.920 I think you covered it a couple of weeks ago. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:15.200 but, it, I just noticed that it is, it's not a beta or anything anymore. 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.740 It's, it's released. 00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.280 So as of December 4th, it's all grown up. 00:30:19.280 --> 00:30:19.600 Yeah. 00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.660 So that's awesome. 00:30:20.660 --> 00:30:22.340 I'm excited to play with that. 00:30:22.340 --> 00:30:23.760 so that that's fun. 00:30:23.760 --> 00:30:26.220 A, and then something submitted by Paul Barry. 00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:31.500 So thank you is, it's Brian seemed, he says, Brian seems to like Vim and you can use 00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:33.140 Vim key bindings in a lot of places. 00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:38.300 And so he sent over the Vim key bindings everywhere, the ultimate list. 00:30:38.540 --> 00:30:45.580 And, it is a GitHub repo with a whole bunch of awesome, things like, debuggers 00:30:45.580 --> 00:30:47.740 and, like Vim PDB. 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:48.820 I didn't know you could do that. 00:30:48.820 --> 00:30:49.940 That's, that'd be fun. 00:30:49.940 --> 00:30:54.660 IPython, you can turn, VIK bindings on with IPython. 00:30:54.660 --> 00:31:01.660 anyway, quite a few fun, fun settings and telling you how to do it for different 00:31:01.660 --> 00:31:02.080 things. 00:31:02.080 --> 00:31:04.640 So even email clients, look at that. 00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:06.320 Yeah. 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.660 None of them I use, but I used to use mutt a long time ago. 00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:13.340 yeah, I don't see mine either, but that's so good. 00:31:13.340 --> 00:31:13.620 Thunderbird. 00:31:13.620 --> 00:31:14.780 I should try that. 00:31:14.780 --> 00:31:15.280 Yeah. 00:31:15.280 --> 00:31:16.800 So, okay. 00:31:16.800 --> 00:31:21.440 So, and then I've got for my last extra, I have a little drama. 00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:27.760 So I talked about last week that I think that Python or we have before the testing code is 00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:33.640 now Python test my other podcast, but I left it on the domain testing code for a while. 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:38.400 But, recently I tried switching it to, to podcasts. 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:42.080 so what we're looking at now is podcast.pythontest.com. 00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:44.000 So the new URL is that. 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.280 but if you just go to, if you just go to pythontest.com, there's a, there's a link to 00:31:48.280 --> 00:31:48.840 the podcast. 00:31:48.840 --> 00:31:50.600 So you can find it that way. 00:31:50.600 --> 00:31:52.640 Just podcast.pythontest.com. 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:54.640 Anyway, what do I do with the old domain? 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:56.860 I redirected it, but it didn't work. 00:31:56.860 --> 00:31:58.200 I don't know what I did wrong. 00:31:58.460 --> 00:32:02.300 I contacted, name cheap and they said, it looks fine to us. 00:32:02.300 --> 00:32:04.200 so not sure what went wrong. 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:11.200 So I changed it, changed the DNS settings last night to, to just point to like a small 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:11.640 site. 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:17.120 So, a small site that looks like this, this morning, it just says, Hey, I'm here. 00:32:17.120 --> 00:32:17.760 Testing code. 00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:19.040 The podcast moved. 00:32:19.040 --> 00:32:19.600 It's over there. 00:32:19.600 --> 00:32:23.120 and so just so that it won't 404 on people. 00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:24.660 And I also have some redirects. 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:30.540 So if you say like testing code.com slash 23, it'll redirect to the 23rd episode over 00:32:30.540 --> 00:32:31.200 on the other one. 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:31.760 Awesome. 00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:33.760 Except it didn't work last night. 00:32:33.760 --> 00:32:39.000 I was pulling my hair out and then, I woke up this morning and it worked on my phone, 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:40.540 but not here yet. 00:32:40.540 --> 00:32:45.900 So, I know that there's this thing of saying, if you ever muck with DNS, it can take up to 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:48.220 72 hours to like ripple through the internet. 00:32:48.220 --> 00:32:50.400 I haven't ever had to deal with that before. 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.820 It's always been pretty quick. 00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:54.640 Whenever I muck with DNS settings, apparently I'm, 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:55.180 hitting that. 00:32:55.180 --> 00:32:58.060 So hopefully in a few days, it'll be all resolved. 00:32:58.060 --> 00:33:03.660 And so now I have to reset my, days since it lasts DNS problem to zero. 00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:04.640 so. 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:05.980 Days since last. 00:33:05.980 --> 00:33:07.240 Oh my God. 00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:08.340 That is so amazing. 00:33:08.340 --> 00:33:09.380 I love it. 00:33:09.380 --> 00:33:11.620 So I'm showing a, an Etsy. 00:33:11.620 --> 00:33:15.940 I think you can find them lots of places, but there's an Etsy state sticker that says zero 00:33:15.940 --> 00:33:19.760 days since it, it was DNS and in parentheses, it's always DNS. 00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:22.060 It is anyway. 00:33:22.060 --> 00:33:23.780 Oh my gosh, Brian. 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:26.780 Are you, are you foreshadowing here? 00:33:26.780 --> 00:33:27.420 Maybe. 00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:28.780 Do you know what I did this whole weekend? 00:33:28.780 --> 00:33:30.380 I have two things to cover for my extras. 00:33:30.380 --> 00:33:30.960 Okay. 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.460 well I covered the one and I also just realized I wanted to give a quick mention just 00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:35.920 in case. 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.900 I spent my, I don't know anything to show, but so let's just leave this up because it's 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:40.140 perfect. 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:40.480 Okay. 00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:46.860 I spent all of the weekend and a good chunk of Monday migrating domains from different places. 00:33:46.860 --> 00:33:47.860 I have a bunch of old ones. 00:33:47.860 --> 00:33:52.420 I have a bunch of old ones at GoDaddy because 15 years ago that seemed all right. 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:53.440 Yeah. 00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:55.300 And they're super hard to get out of there. 00:33:55.300 --> 00:34:01.280 so I've got a bunch of Google domains because I thought Google domains is beautiful until Google 00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:06.900 decided to shut that down because apparently it's too much work to store like a DNS file. 00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:08.420 That's it's a hundred characters. 00:34:08.420 --> 00:34:09.000 I don't know. 00:34:09.160 --> 00:34:11.800 Cause it's a commodity now and they can't make money off of it. 00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:12.800 I know. 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:13.380 I know. 00:34:13.380 --> 00:34:14.800 Anyway, I can understand it. 00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:17.300 But anyway, so I had like, well, I don't want to stuff on that thing. 00:34:17.300 --> 00:34:18.820 That's like shutting down. 00:34:18.820 --> 00:34:21.620 I got to move that off and I got some others in other place. 00:34:21.620 --> 00:34:24.980 So moving that all together, holy moly, does that take some time? 00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:26.300 And sometimes they move quickly. 00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:27.780 Sometimes they don't. 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:33.240 Some of the domains have, security turned on that if they transfer, it takes three days 00:34:33.240 --> 00:34:35.700 for it to disable, but the domain will transfer right away. 00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:40.240 But if you transfer it to, you reset it too quickly, it'll like just permanently stop working. 00:34:40.240 --> 00:34:47.140 Some of them have to have SSL as part of the DNS definition, like, dot dev requires 00:34:47.140 --> 00:34:48.060 only SSL. 00:34:48.060 --> 00:34:51.880 But if you want to use let's encrypt, well, it's got to resolve to someplace, but it can't 00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:52.600 resolve to someplace. 00:34:52.600 --> 00:34:53.500 It's not as SSL. 00:34:53.500 --> 00:34:57.380 You're like, okay, who decided to invent a catch 22 for domain names? 00:34:57.380 --> 00:34:58.460 Like, oh, ah. 00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:04.200 So the last one of the last ones switching is Python bytes.fm, which I requested after a 00:35:04.200 --> 00:35:09.500 45 minute phone call, figure out why GoDaddy couldn't give me the access code to do the 00:35:09.500 --> 00:35:09.820 switch. 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:15.920 I finally did this morning and I got it, but I hope everyone gets to hear from us after 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:16.800 it switches. 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.480 So if there's the reason, the whole reason to tell the story is that for some reason it 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:23.060 stops working, it will be back. 00:35:23.060 --> 00:35:23.800 I apologize. 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:24.780 I'll get it. 00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:25.360 I'll get it there. 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:26.400 I think it's going to go seamlessly. 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.500 Sometimes I do. 00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:28.560 Sometimes they don't. 00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:29.540 Fingers crossed for this one. 00:35:29.540 --> 00:35:32.160 So we need to buy these stickers in bulk then. 00:35:32.160 --> 00:35:35.740 We're going to zero days since it was DNS. 00:35:35.740 --> 00:35:36.720 It's always DNS. 00:35:36.720 --> 00:35:37.160 Yeah. 00:35:37.160 --> 00:35:38.760 So we need to get those ordered now. 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.580 Mojo's asking where I ended up. 00:35:42.580 --> 00:35:46.300 I ended up, let me do it like this so I don't give away the joke. 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:49.300 I ended up at hover.com. 00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:49.840 Okay. 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:51.460 It's the one thing that they do. 00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:53.140 They don't do other stuff. 00:35:53.140 --> 00:35:58.280 They don't kill white rhinos for sport, nor do they not care about their DNS. 00:35:58.280 --> 00:35:59.080 It's like their job. 00:35:59.080 --> 00:36:01.040 So it seemed like a good place so far. 00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:02.000 Fingers crossed. 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:02.700 Thank you, Robert. 00:36:02.700 --> 00:36:03.800 All right. 00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:07.160 So you already had probably the best joke for the show, but I've got a joke as well. 00:36:07.160 --> 00:36:07.920 You ready for it? 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:08.300 Okay. 00:36:08.300 --> 00:36:08.700 Yeah. 00:36:08.700 --> 00:36:09.380 Okay. 00:36:09.380 --> 00:36:10.280 Oh, I love this. 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:10.960 So, yeah. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:17.020 So Chris, no, Josh Collinsworth, sorry, came up with this thing and it looks like some kind 00:36:17.020 --> 00:36:17.860 of code he's written. 00:36:17.860 --> 00:36:20.780 It's over on codepen.io that generates these. 00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:25.040 So it's an honest LinkedIn notification generator. 00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:29.760 So, you know, you go to like your activity or your notifications and it tells you stuff. 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:35.640 Well, this one tells you stuff that is, you know, more in line with the reality of LinkedIn 00:36:35.640 --> 00:36:37.940 rather than what LinkedIn wants to tell you. 00:36:37.940 --> 00:36:39.420 So here's a picture of this woman. 00:36:39.420 --> 00:36:42.540 It says, congratulate a near stranger for tears at a job. 00:36:42.540 --> 00:36:44.440 You didn't know they had, they had. 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:46.740 And then there's like a, yeah, it's so good. 00:36:46.740 --> 00:36:48.760 There's like a blurred picture of somebody. 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:50.380 It says, someone looked at your profile. 00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:50.720 Who? 00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:52.620 We're holding that information for ransom. 00:36:52.620 --> 00:36:59.640 It says, smiling guys, says, follow the worst coworker you've ever had for their sudden 00:36:59.640 --> 00:37:00.960 unsolicited insights. 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.360 And it just goes on and on. 00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:03.880 I think it even has infinite scroll. 00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:10.080 Somebody connected with your first manager from your job in 2014 reacted to a former classmate's 00:37:10.080 --> 00:37:10.380 post. 00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:11.400 Thought you should know. 00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:16.880 So one of the influencers shared an incredibly crappy opinion just for the engagement. 00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:17.820 Click to engage. 00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:20.520 Never hire anyone who writes CSF ever. 00:37:20.520 --> 00:37:21.500 No CSS. 00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:23.520 So on and so on. 00:37:23.520 --> 00:37:25.080 It's just, it's so good. 00:37:25.080 --> 00:37:28.720 Wish that guy who made you cry in the bathroom a happy birthday. 00:37:28.720 --> 00:37:30.200 That was great. 00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:34.180 Oh, that was, that was a, did you already get the one where it was like free work? 00:37:34.180 --> 00:37:35.160 The free labor one? 00:37:35.160 --> 00:37:35.740 Oh yeah. 00:37:35.740 --> 00:37:36.920 No, where is it? 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:37.580 No, right there. 00:37:37.580 --> 00:37:39.760 You're, you're one of the few experts invited. 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:40.520 Oh yeah. 00:37:40.520 --> 00:37:40.720 Yeah. 00:37:40.740 --> 00:37:46.960 You're one of the few experts invited to slash do free unpaid labor rather add to this 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:48.000 collaborative article. 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.180 How do you exploit users without them noticing? 00:37:50.180 --> 00:37:54.780 Well, I've been getting those like a whole bunch lately and I, and I actually clicked on 00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:56.460 it when I'm like, what are they talking about? 00:37:56.460 --> 00:37:58.800 Oh, they want me to write articles for free. 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:00.700 no, I'm not doing that. 00:38:00.700 --> 00:38:03.840 I got one this morning even. 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:10.220 So I got not one of these, but I got a congratulate John Gould on his new or gold, on his new, 00:38:10.220 --> 00:38:11.100 uh, promotion. 00:38:11.180 --> 00:38:12.560 And I'm like, he owns the company. 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:13.560 I don't understand. 00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:15.560 I don't understand. 00:38:15.560 --> 00:38:16.400 I don't understand. 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:16.700 Yeah. 00:38:16.700 --> 00:38:19.080 Good little pat on the old back there, John. 00:38:19.080 --> 00:38:19.720 Good job. 00:38:19.720 --> 00:38:21.200 Giving yourself a promotion there. 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:22.600 Exactly. 00:38:23.060 --> 00:38:27.860 Chris Taylor and 36 others at soul sucking corporation shared this post from the CEO in hopes of 00:38:27.860 --> 00:38:29.180 avoiding the next round of layoffs. 00:38:29.180 --> 00:38:30.300 These are good. 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.400 Get a lot of those. 00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.740 Yeah. 00:38:31.740 --> 00:38:32.340 All right. 00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:35.320 Well, I don't know if it's too dark, but that's what I brought for the joke. 00:38:35.700 --> 00:38:36.680 I think it's great. 00:38:36.680 --> 00:38:37.640 I think I do. 00:38:37.640 --> 00:38:42.780 I kind of like LinkedIn to like keep in touch with people and keep up your resume and stuff 00:38:42.780 --> 00:38:43.260 like that. 00:38:43.260 --> 00:38:49.680 But I don't actually ever use it as a finding new articles through service. 00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:51.560 But anyway, there's a whole group of people who do. 00:38:51.560 --> 00:38:54.460 I don't think I'm part of it either, but yeah, I'm not the target audience. 00:38:54.460 --> 00:38:55.520 So it's all right. 00:38:55.520 --> 00:38:55.900 Yeah. 00:38:55.900 --> 00:38:56.500 All right. 00:38:56.500 --> 00:38:59.700 Well, thanks again for a lovely Python bites. 00:38:59.700 --> 00:39:00.500 Absolutely. 00:39:00.500 --> 00:39:01.120 Bye.