WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:05.180 Hello and welcome to Python Byte, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.180 --> 00:00:11.300 This is episode 410, recorded Monday, November 18th at 7.37 a.m. 00:00:11.300 --> 00:00:14.540 Again, an unusual time for our live streaming, but here we are. 00:00:14.540 --> 00:00:15.560 I am Michael Kennedy. 00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:16.820 And I am Brian Okken. 00:00:16.820 --> 00:00:23.680 This episode is brought to you by us, our courses, the podcast, all those things, Brian's book, etc. 00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:27.100 Check them out. Links are in the podcast show notes there. 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:28.480 You can find them right in your podcast player. 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:33.800 And we have a standard introduction, Brian, of, hey, follow us on Mastodon. 00:00:33.800 --> 00:00:35.960 But you know what? This is not news to you. 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:40.080 You created us a Python Bytes Bluesky account. How about that? 00:00:40.080 --> 00:00:41.320 Yeah, Bluesky. 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.840 So you can still follow us on Mastodon. We're still very active there. 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:50.640 But if you're one of the many people that never really made your way to Mastodon, but decided to make your way to Bluesky, 00:00:50.640 --> 00:01:00.520 well then make your way over to the Python Bytes.bsky.social account where that is the jumping off point to stay in touch with all of us. 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.120 So follow the podcast there. 00:01:02.120 --> 00:01:03.320 You can follow Brian. 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:05.560 He's linked in the profile there. 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.140 You can follow me over there as well. 00:01:08.500 --> 00:01:11.340 And once you click on me, you can find Talk Python, all those things. 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:12.560 Follow the chain. 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:13.520 Follow the chain. 00:01:13.520 --> 00:01:16.400 So follow us on Mastodon and Bluesky. 00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:17.880 I'm enjoying Bluesky, Brian. 00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:18.580 What do you think about it? 00:01:19.020 --> 00:01:21.980 I think the default, I like it. 00:01:21.980 --> 00:01:24.520 Also, I like that the default experience is pretty good. 00:01:24.520 --> 00:01:32.500 Mastodon, I love Mastodon, but I had to get to, I'm using the Mona client on my iPhone, and it works. 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:40.860 It's a really comfortable thing, but it took me a while to get there because there really isn't, I don't, if there is a default Mastodon client, it's not great. 00:01:40.860 --> 00:01:45.060 Yeah, there is a default one, but I tried it for a while and I switched to Mona as well. 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:45.800 Yeah, so. 00:01:45.800 --> 00:01:46.140 Yeah. 00:01:46.660 --> 00:01:47.420 I'm liking it. 00:01:47.420 --> 00:01:51.320 If a bunch of people want to move over there, you know, we should be part of that community. 00:01:51.320 --> 00:01:53.120 There's a ton of familiar faces. 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.660 Many of the people we talk about on the show are pretty active over there, so. 00:01:56.660 --> 00:01:59.420 But it doesn't, you know, one thing, it doesn't have an edit feature. 00:01:59.420 --> 00:02:01.140 When you post, you're done. 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:02.500 You can't edit it later. 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:06.680 Just prepare people, prepare to receive a lot of typos from me. 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:10.180 For some reason, I like type fast on my phone and I don't really look and just hit send. 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:11.420 That may be on me. 00:02:11.420 --> 00:02:16.580 But I think it's bad form to call people out on typos on social media platforms. 00:02:16.580 --> 00:02:17.720 You know, that's just. 00:02:17.720 --> 00:02:18.460 Yeah. 00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:18.760 Anyway. 00:02:18.760 --> 00:02:19.460 Cool. 00:02:19.460 --> 00:02:20.120 Indeed. 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:20.880 Indeed. 00:02:20.880 --> 00:02:22.920 And, you know, final bits of introduction. 00:02:22.920 --> 00:02:24.040 Check out the live show. 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:25.260 We don't know when it is. 00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:27.340 Maybe Monday at 7. 00:02:27.340 --> 00:02:28.060 You'd like to say normally. 00:02:28.060 --> 00:02:28.740 What? 00:02:28.740 --> 00:02:29.860 I don't remember. 00:02:29.860 --> 00:02:30.360 No. 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:30.880 Well, what? 00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:33.780 There's what we normally say is Monday at 10 a.m. 00:02:33.780 --> 00:02:34.400 Pacific time. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.920 But then there's what we normally do, which recently has been 7.30 a.m. 00:02:37.920 --> 00:02:38.520 All over the place. 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:39.020 Yeah. 00:02:39.020 --> 00:02:39.500 Blame Brian. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:40.800 No, it's fine. 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:41.240 It's fine. 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.560 We'll figure out a time. 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.240 But you can always find the next episode pretty much right as this one ships. 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.240 So if you just click on there, it'll take you to YouTube. 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:49.900 That has the time. 00:02:49.900 --> 00:02:50.220 Yeah. 00:02:50.220 --> 00:02:51.720 Finally, subscribe to the newsletter. 00:02:51.720 --> 00:02:52.760 You guys know the deal. 00:02:52.760 --> 00:02:53.600 Handcrafted. 00:02:53.600 --> 00:02:54.200 Artisanal. 00:02:54.200 --> 00:02:54.860 From Brian. 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:56.260 By the pythonbytes.fm newsletter. 00:02:56.260 --> 00:02:58.000 And with that, what do we got? 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.760 Let's talk about Django for a bit. 00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:07.960 So Carlton Gibson, who was the Django fellow and has stepped, I think, last year. 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:08.780 I believe he did step down. 00:03:08.780 --> 00:03:10.060 He is a Django chatter, though. 00:03:10.060 --> 00:03:11.020 Django chat. 00:03:11.020 --> 00:03:11.280 Yeah. 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:12.180 Django chat's awesome. 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:13.340 Another podcast. 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:16.880 But so he has thoughts on Django core. 00:03:16.880 --> 00:03:20.260 And it's kind of a long article, but it's well written. 00:03:20.260 --> 00:03:29.380 And it's talking about Django core versus Django plugins and the longevity of Django and everything. 00:03:29.820 --> 00:03:34.020 And the whether or not batteries included and things like that and how to sustain it. 00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:39.580 So one of the things that I guess I kind of forget that Django will be 20 years old. 00:03:39.580 --> 00:03:42.580 Nick's birthday is 20 years ago or 20 years. 00:03:42.580 --> 00:03:44.300 That's a pretty long time. 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:45.480 So it must be 19 now. 00:03:45.480 --> 00:03:48.660 And that's a long time. 00:03:48.660 --> 00:03:54.640 And so one of the sustainable abilities, sustainable parts is that there's lots of stuff there. 00:03:54.640 --> 00:03:59.220 There's like this idea of the it's the web framework for perfectionists with deadlines. 00:03:59.420 --> 00:04:04.520 And it's also the batteries included framework, but not too many batteries. 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:06.500 So there's a small core. 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:15.600 And then also talking about like a lot of people understand that the power of Django isn't really just the core. 00:04:15.600 --> 00:04:23.300 It's that you can get something up quickly with the core, but it's the all the plugins that are available because the ecosystem is a plugin architecture. 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.920 And the so what is this talking about? 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.400 A lot of people don't realize that there's just a few people working. 00:04:31.400 --> 00:04:34.700 I mean, it's not a huge team for how many people are using Django. 00:04:34.700 --> 00:04:36.500 There's one and a half. 00:04:36.500 --> 00:04:38.100 I'm trying to find it. 00:04:38.100 --> 00:04:38.780 I like this. 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:40.540 Anyway, we'll get to that. 00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:41.720 There's one and a half. 00:04:42.420 --> 00:04:43.880 Wait, wait, we can't just go right past it. 00:04:43.880 --> 00:04:47.580 This is a this is a this is great. 00:04:47.580 --> 00:04:49.420 Pinky in the brain reference. 00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:49.880 Amazing. 00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:50.440 Yeah. 00:04:50.440 --> 00:04:51.120 Pinky in the brain. 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:51.940 I love them. 00:04:51.940 --> 00:04:53.380 OK, so G brain. 00:04:53.380 --> 00:04:54.520 What are we going to do tonight? 00:04:54.520 --> 00:04:56.100 Same thing we do every night. 00:04:56.100 --> 00:04:56.500 Pinky. 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:58.680 Try to get our package into Django core. 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:01.140 This is hilarious. 00:05:01.640 --> 00:05:07.500 So the idea is it's difficult to get features into Django core, but maybe you don't want to. 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:12.140 Somebody I can't remember the attribution. 00:05:12.140 --> 00:05:19.060 It's listed in here, but somebody mentioned that core is where plugins go to die and which is a little harsh. 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:25.700 But I people need to understand that if you get your feature in core, it doesn't change very frequently. 00:05:25.700 --> 00:05:27.580 Then they do. 00:05:27.580 --> 00:05:31.480 They do a deprecation release like every two years. 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.560 So if if you want to deprecate a feature, it's two years. 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.120 If you want to add something new, it's a slow process. 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:38.420 There's a lot of testing involved. 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:44.080 It's going to be way easier to get a new feature if it's in if it's in a plugin also. 00:05:44.080 --> 00:05:48.800 And if we look back, I mean, thinking in the future, like we might. 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:55.840 One example here was I'm not going to try to find it, but one example was XHTML or X. 00:05:55.840 --> 00:05:56.920 Yeah, that's right. 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:57.640 XHTML. 00:05:57.640 --> 00:05:58.540 Super awesome. 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:00.000 A lot of people are using it. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.500 Should that be part of supported natively in core? 00:06:03.500 --> 00:06:06.380 Well, we look back a few years. 00:06:06.380 --> 00:06:09.000 It would have been like React or something. 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:11.980 Should should Django natively support React? 00:06:11.980 --> 00:06:13.400 Glad they chose no. 00:06:13.400 --> 00:06:18.760 Now, XHTML might be the next no in a few years. 00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:19.400 We never know. 00:06:20.280 --> 00:06:23.640 Also, yeah, there's a lot of examples around that. 00:06:23.640 --> 00:06:24.900 Django REST framework. 00:06:24.900 --> 00:06:27.720 I kind of forget that that's not a core thing. 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.380 That's a it's just one of the really popular plugins. 00:06:30.380 --> 00:06:35.660 But there's like Django Ninja that is that is awesome also. 00:06:35.880 --> 00:06:40.760 And maybe it wouldn't exist if Django REST framework was part of the core. 00:06:40.760 --> 00:06:42.600 So the ecosystem is great. 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:46.440 But there is there is a tension there that I like this. 00:06:46.720 --> 00:07:01.160 The discussion of is that Django, even the Django website doesn't like the team doesn't like to to like pick the plugins that everybody should use or the winner plugins, because that's kind of like bringing in a decor. 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:05.860 That's that kind of reduces the competition and the ecosystem. 00:07:05.860 --> 00:07:12.300 But at the same time, it's hard as a beginner to jump in and say, OK, so what know really what plugins should I be using? 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.700 And there isn't a should for everybody, of course. 00:07:15.700 --> 00:07:19.780 But I think there I guess this I enjoyed this discussion. 00:07:19.780 --> 00:07:25.400 It's around how how should we support the ecosystem while not squelching the ecosystem? 00:07:25.400 --> 00:07:35.080 So anyway, I I saw corollars between this and pytest as well, because pytest has the same sort of issue that it's there's a there's a core. 00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:37.900 And there's things in the core that I wish weren't there. 00:07:37.900 --> 00:07:41.940 And there's things that are out of the core that I think maybe should be. 00:07:41.940 --> 00:07:50.640 And and so everybody's going to have those opinions and dealing with whether or not you sanction a plugin or not. 00:07:50.640 --> 00:07:54.260 That's a it's a troubling thing for every every system. 00:07:54.260 --> 00:07:56.900 So anyway, it's a it's a tough tension. 00:07:56.900 --> 00:08:03.920 So anyway, out in the audience, we got you have any says it's great to see Django now got task you feature added. 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:05.180 No need for celery anymore. 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:06.060 Here it is. 00:08:06.060 --> 00:08:06.260 Right. 00:08:06.260 --> 00:08:06.600 Yeah. 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:09.460 It's awesome to be able to just say, no, we can run stuff asynchronously. 00:08:09.460 --> 00:08:15.420 We don't need a mega infrastructure like maybe just an async loop or a thread or, you know. 00:08:15.420 --> 00:08:15.800 Yeah. 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:20.240 On the other hand, it's it's weight that's permanently on Django now. 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:20.460 Right. 00:08:20.700 --> 00:08:21.120 Yeah. 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:21.540 Yeah. 00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:21.600 Yeah. 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:21.680 Yeah. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:21.720 Yeah. 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:29.680 And another little comic that was in there is this is this comic of how you think happens open source apps are maintained. 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:36.180 And there's a picture of like tons of people hanging out, drawing on whiteboards and talking and stuff. 00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:43.040 And the reality is one dude in a basement saying just one more ticket before I go to bed. 00:08:43.040 --> 00:08:44.900 So. 00:08:44.900 --> 00:08:45.420 Yeah. 00:08:45.420 --> 00:08:46.340 Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:46.640 --> 00:08:47.500 Let's go to the future. 00:08:47.500 --> 00:08:48.140 Okay. 00:08:48.140 --> 00:08:48.920 Where we're going. 00:08:48.920 --> 00:08:50.300 We don't need roads. 00:08:50.300 --> 00:08:52.160 We're going to go to the future pool. 00:08:52.160 --> 00:08:54.140 This one comes to us from Pat Decker. 00:08:54.140 --> 00:08:55.080 Thank you, Pat. 00:08:55.080 --> 00:09:05.160 So this is an interesting idea about library that allows you to do multi processing type of work, but with asyncio. 00:09:05.160 --> 00:09:11.200 One of the challenges with asyncio is you can overwhelm the system and it does not. 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:12.540 What's the term? 00:09:12.540 --> 00:09:14.940 I think you would say it doesn't feel back pressure. 00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:16.640 So let me give you an example. 00:09:16.640 --> 00:09:26.320 If you're doing regular programming where you call a function in a blocks, I'm calling it writing a database query and it stays there until the response until the database gets back to you. 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:26.500 Right. 00:09:26.500 --> 00:09:27.820 Well, the database is busy. 00:09:27.820 --> 00:09:31.440 That slows down the part of the code that's calling the database. 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:31.940 Right. 00:09:31.940 --> 00:09:35.200 The code is calling the part of the code that's calling database in. 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.880 It kind of backs up the entire system and slows it down. 00:09:37.880 --> 00:09:42.200 But with asyncio, you're just sort of throwing more work at it and then carrying on. 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.400 So you can go make even more work for it. 00:09:44.400 --> 00:09:44.620 Right. 00:09:44.860 --> 00:09:48.760 So one of the challenges of asyncio is you can just overwhelm the system. 00:09:48.760 --> 00:09:54.040 If you know, Hey, we really can only take 10 concurrent requests, but if it gets over that, it's going to be a problem. 00:09:54.040 --> 00:09:56.040 It's challenging to set that limit. 00:09:56.040 --> 00:09:56.460 Okay. 00:09:56.460 --> 00:09:58.480 So that's kind of what this feature pool thing does. 00:09:58.480 --> 00:09:59.680 It's, it's cool. 00:09:59.680 --> 00:10:03.820 It's a small use case because the way that you use it, but still it's, it's cool. 00:10:03.820 --> 00:10:12.860 So in multi-processing, this is the traditional, I create the processes because Python has this thing called the GIL and we can't really do computational parallelism. 00:10:12.860 --> 00:10:13.840 So we're going to do it this way. 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.600 So what you can do is say, Hey, maybe we only have two cores or I only want to consume two cores or whatever. 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:29.200 So you can say with pool of two workers, create no more than two processes, just sort of like start processing as many requests as you have, but only take them two at a time. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.720 As one gets done, get the next and just keep going until you're out. 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:31.980 Right. 00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:32.360 Yeah. 00:10:32.420 --> 00:10:35.420 So that's what this idea of future pool is, but for asyncio. 00:10:35.420 --> 00:10:39.140 So you can say async with future pool of however many you want. 00:10:39.140 --> 00:10:44.100 And then you can await future pool map, some function over some block of work. 00:10:44.100 --> 00:10:45.800 Simple, but interesting, right? 00:10:45.800 --> 00:10:46.180 Yeah. 00:10:46.180 --> 00:10:48.300 And this way it will stop the caller. 00:10:48.300 --> 00:10:49.980 Can't go on anymore. 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:53.020 Then while it's, it's sort of limiting. 00:10:53.260 --> 00:10:57.280 So why do I say this is pretty limited and why, why would it be better? 00:10:57.280 --> 00:10:58.400 How could it be better? 00:10:58.400 --> 00:11:06.220 So this is a local little thing that you create in one function once and it, it does the work. 00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:09.780 Also, you can't just say, run this task asynchronously. 00:11:09.780 --> 00:11:13.100 You have to use this map reduce pattern on it. 00:11:13.100 --> 00:11:13.540 Yeah. 00:11:13.540 --> 00:11:15.820 Which is not a normal programming thing. 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:17.060 It's not like I'm calling this function. 00:11:17.060 --> 00:11:17.560 I'm awaiting that. 00:11:17.560 --> 00:11:18.240 I'm calling that function. 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:18.760 I'm awaiting that. 00:11:18.760 --> 00:11:26.000 What would be awesome is if some way you could go and say for this program or, or this thread, 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:30.900 or maybe not ideal, but maybe even for this event loop, I don't care how work gets to it. 00:11:30.900 --> 00:11:32.320 Let's limit it to five at a time. 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.600 So if a web request kicks something off, awesome. 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:38.460 It's, it, it goes into that thing that's limited by five concurrent requests. 00:11:38.460 --> 00:11:45.140 If I say, await something I call, it's also participating in this, this pooling, throttling, 00:11:45.140 --> 00:11:45.920 limiting type thing. 00:11:45.920 --> 00:11:48.680 But asyncio, as far as I know, doesn't have that concept. 00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:54.060 So maybe this could both be useful for some folks and motivation for someone to create 00:11:54.060 --> 00:11:56.680 something really interesting that is a little more broadly useful. 00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:57.100 Yeah. 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:04.840 It's probably dangerous to architect on the fly here, but isn't there like something that 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.140 you've used before that is async sometimes that. 00:12:08.140 --> 00:12:08.620 Yeah. 00:12:08.620 --> 00:12:13.240 I used unsync, U-N-S-Y-N-C, which is pretty interesting. 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:18.120 And that would be, that would certainly be possible to do that because what that does is that converts 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:24.640 or processes all the asynchronous requests everywhere into a single loop on a single background thread. 00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:25.040 No. 00:12:25.040 --> 00:12:25.720 Yeah. 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:27.160 Possibly that. 00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:32.300 I was just thinking a similar model of you'd want to, you'd want to like give work to this, 00:12:32.300 --> 00:12:33.260 this system. 00:12:33.260 --> 00:12:33.900 Exactly. 00:12:33.900 --> 00:12:38.260 And have it be async until it can't be, and then have it block. 00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:38.740 Mm-hmm. 00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:39.360 I see. 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:39.700 Yeah. 00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:40.080 Yeah. 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:40.220 Yeah. 00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:41.140 Yeah. 00:12:41.140 --> 00:12:41.680 That would be great. 00:12:41.680 --> 00:12:47.660 The problem is I think it really needs something a little bit lower level than people can build 00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:48.440 packages for. 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:48.880 Yeah. 00:12:48.880 --> 00:12:51.780 It kind of needs to be part of, you know, part of Python itself. 00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:53.120 There is uv loop. 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:53.920 Part of the cohort. 00:12:53.920 --> 00:12:54.540 Yeah. 00:12:54.540 --> 00:12:55.760 Part of the, wait, here we go again. 00:12:56.300 --> 00:13:01.900 So it needs to be something that is the loop itself almost as work gets added to it. 00:13:01.900 --> 00:13:02.060 Right. 00:13:02.060 --> 00:13:06.460 But, you know, uv loop can replace the regular asyncio loop, which is generally a good idea 00:13:06.460 --> 00:13:06.980 when possible. 00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:10.300 But so maybe, maybe it's, it's that level that you got to work at. 00:13:10.300 --> 00:13:13.040 Maybe we could look, look in that realm and, and see what we could do. 00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:16.700 Because it would be really cool to say, hey, this thing can handle all, all the concurrency 00:13:16.700 --> 00:13:21.820 you want to throw at it, but it's only going to pass it on or you execute it more 10 at 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:22.840 a time or something like that. 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:23.180 Yeah. 00:13:23.180 --> 00:13:23.700 Anyway. 00:13:23.700 --> 00:13:24.620 Oh dear. 00:13:24.620 --> 00:13:27.060 People can go to the future with future pool and check it out. 00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:29.340 And maybe it's useful for your project. 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:29.720 Yeah. 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:30.300 It's funny. 00:13:30.300 --> 00:13:32.760 You said uv loop and I'm like, uv has loops. 00:13:32.760 --> 00:13:33.340 Oh no. 00:13:33.340 --> 00:13:35.120 UV loop was a thing way before uv. 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:35.680 Yeah. 00:13:35.680 --> 00:13:37.300 UV loop was a, yeah. 00:13:37.300 --> 00:13:38.560 Magic stack, right? 00:13:38.560 --> 00:13:39.540 UV loop's been around. 00:13:39.540 --> 00:13:42.120 I don't know how long it's been around, but at least three years. 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:43.160 At least eight years. 00:13:43.160 --> 00:13:43.960 Oh, sorry. 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:44.140 Yeah. 00:13:44.140 --> 00:13:44.920 At least eight years. 00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:46.360 So that's longer than uv. 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.760 Yeah. 00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:47.200 Yeah. 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:47.620 Anyway. 00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:48.100 Okay. 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:48.500 Yeah. 00:13:48.500 --> 00:13:49.080 All right. 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:49.460 Over to you. 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:55.740 I want to go to an article called, from Brett Cannon, called Don't Return Named Tuples 00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:57.020 in New APIs. 00:13:57.020 --> 00:14:02.440 It's a simple sort of thing, but it's, it's a good thing to, to remind people of. 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:10.500 So first off, I want to thank Brett for using the term API in a sense of the API for a method 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:16.640 or for a function or for a class or module and not necessarily an API for a REST API. 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:22.840 We're not talking about REST APIs or web APIs, talking about good old function, just good 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:23.320 old APIs. 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:23.760 Anyway. 00:14:24.540 --> 00:14:30.800 So the idea is named tuples are kind of awesome and they're fun because you can just in one 00:14:30.800 --> 00:14:36.140 line say, Hey, I've got like, say a point and it's, it's cool. 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:40.980 And why would I return that where I turn a named tuple is because something like that, like a 00:14:40.980 --> 00:14:41.220 point. 00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:44.680 So that it's obvious that people can access X, Y, Z or whatever. 00:14:44.680 --> 00:14:51.800 And, and in some things like point, it's easy to, you know, or get mouse position, you know, 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:52.800 it's an X, Y coordinate. 00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:55.440 So X and Y are probably there. 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.120 However, so why, why would you not want to use this? 00:14:58.420 --> 00:15:05.140 And he's arguing that, and I kind of agree is that it's really easy to implement something 00:15:05.140 --> 00:15:05.980 with a named tuple. 00:15:05.980 --> 00:15:14.620 But now you've got to support both index based index access, like a tuple or named access as 00:15:14.620 --> 00:15:15.360 if it was a dictionary. 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:21.660 So having both index access and name access is probably not what you meant. 00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:26.700 And I think I've seen this a lot of people assume once it's a named tuple, people are 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:28.680 going to use the name, but it's also a tuple. 00:15:28.680 --> 00:15:32.140 So you can use it, you can slice it and I'll do all sorts of stuff. 00:15:32.140 --> 00:15:39.500 So the, and it's really just to get around like to not have to do a class, but classes are 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:40.020 easier now. 00:15:40.020 --> 00:15:44.100 So there's some alternatives to alternatives to named tuple. 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:51.160 You can return a data class and that would be something I'd grab possibly data class or a 00:15:51.160 --> 00:15:54.080 dictionary, dictionary would work fine or typed dict. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:59.500 The, one of the things that is nice about a typed dick is dict is that you get editor 00:15:59.500 --> 00:16:02.320 support as well, because you've got the types defined in there. 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:07.900 and then something new to me, which I'm going to have to play with is a simple namespace, 00:16:07.900 --> 00:16:15.180 um, which gives us the ability to, to access the names, but, it's not indexable. 00:16:15.180 --> 00:16:18.440 I haven't played with a namespace, simple namespace. 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:20.080 So I'll have to do that. 00:16:20.420 --> 00:16:21.840 I haven't heard a simple namespace either. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:23.200 And I haven't really used type dict. 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.200 well, they both are good options. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.040 I haven't either. 00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:31.760 I like kind of jumped on the, data class, bandwagon, and use data classes a lot 00:16:31.760 --> 00:16:37.140 now, because I do think about that is, is actually, I need to think about it more, 00:16:37.140 --> 00:16:40.460 but I haven't really been using named tuples to return stuff. 00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:44.500 but so the, so what's the recommendation really is just be careful. 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:48.060 and, I'll read his quote. 00:16:48.060 --> 00:16:53.740 He said, my key point in all of this is to prefer readability and ergonomics over brevity in your 00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:54.180 code. 00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:59.460 that means avoiding named tuples, except when you're expanding or tweaking in an existing 00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:05.460 API where the named tuple improves over the plain tuple that is already being used. 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:09.780 So if you're art and that's, I guess that that's something I think I have done. 00:17:09.780 --> 00:17:16.320 If, if you are, the return value was a tuple before it's been a tuple for a long time, there's 00:17:16.320 --> 00:17:19.880 existing code using it, but it really should have been a named something. 00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:24.020 adding, adding a named tuple allows people to use both. 00:17:24.020 --> 00:17:26.940 and that might be ergonomically better. 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:32.500 The, but, the caveat really is you've got a lot of testing to do because you've got 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:34.160 to test both accesses now. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:35.460 So, test more. 00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:36.280 So, okay. 00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:36.760 Awesome. 00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:37.180 Yeah. 00:17:37.180 --> 00:17:38.280 That's a good article blog, Brett. 00:17:38.280 --> 00:17:39.920 No surprise there. 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:40.560 No surprise. 00:17:40.560 --> 00:17:41.100 Okay. 00:17:41.100 --> 00:17:46.000 Let's talk about a different programming language, but I think this is interesting and interesting 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.740 perspective. 00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:47.240 Okay. 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.020 So the Zig programming language, are you familiar with Zig? 00:17:50.020 --> 00:17:50.680 No. 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.060 I, it's kind of new to me as well. 00:17:53.060 --> 00:17:58.120 If you go and look at some examples here, it looks, I think it looks a little like rust 00:17:58.120 --> 00:18:02.860 like, I'm not sure, but we go down, it's, it does a lot of, simple things like 00:18:02.860 --> 00:18:08.380 it interoperates really quickly and easily with, either C or, or windows APIs or stuff 00:18:08.380 --> 00:18:08.860 like that. 00:18:08.860 --> 00:18:13.340 But yeah, it looks, it looks pretty approachable, but it's a low level level, low level programming 00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:15.220 language like here arrest. 00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:15.460 Right. 00:18:15.600 --> 00:18:20.220 What are those, what are all those, semicolons and curly braces doing in my code? 00:18:20.220 --> 00:18:21.760 I know I, you probably delete them. 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:22.720 I don't think you really need it. 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:26.600 So here's the interesting thing. 00:18:26.600 --> 00:18:33.020 They recently were spending quite a bit of money on AWS and they've decided that they would be 00:18:33.020 --> 00:18:36.900 better off not spending their supporters money on hosting. 00:18:37.120 --> 00:18:43.600 So for example, they said the rust foundation reports that it spends $404,000 on infrastructure 00:18:43.600 --> 00:18:45.740 websites and stuff like that. 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:47.280 And probably mostly packages. 00:18:47.280 --> 00:18:50.800 And it says, we don't really know anything about PI PI and Python. 00:18:50.800 --> 00:18:53.760 Like what does python.org cost to run? 00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:58.360 And mostly because that's a lot of the infrastructure costs are donated. 00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:03.420 They said, look, as this language is growing, we don't really want for that to be our issue. 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:07.660 So they were getting upwards of a thousand dollars a month for their AWS bill, which is 00:19:07.660 --> 00:19:10.160 not insane, but for an open source project. 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:10.640 Yeah. 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:11.040 Yeah. 00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:12.100 It's kind of up there. 00:19:12.100 --> 00:19:14.420 But what they said is look, zigling.org. 00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:16.640 That's their equivalent of python.org. 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.280 It says, this is not an essential service. 00:19:18.280 --> 00:19:23.980 It's not an emergency if it goes down and 99% uptime is perfectly fine. 00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:29.560 It's the last 1% of uptime that represents 99% of the costs, which is pretty interesting. 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:32.660 So they said, look, we got a $36 Hetzner server. 00:19:32.660 --> 00:19:35.160 Which comes with 20 terabytes. 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:41.320 I think 20, at least 20 terabytes of bandwidth, which is about $2,000 of AWS bandwidth included 00:19:41.320 --> 00:19:42.060 for the $36. 00:19:42.060 --> 00:19:45.620 And maybe someday we'll go crazy and spend a hundred or 200 bucks, but we don't need to 00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:46.220 do more than that. 00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:47.680 Like this, this is enough. 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.040 Right. 00:19:48.040 --> 00:19:50.180 And so what are they doing instead? 00:19:50.180 --> 00:19:56.580 They're saying one, they're encouraging and setting up a system that has package mirrors. 00:19:56.580 --> 00:19:57.060 Right. 00:19:57.060 --> 00:20:02.780 Remember we talked about that PEP that would basically sign wheels and then allow them 00:20:02.780 --> 00:20:05.720 to be hosted somewhere else as long as the signature still matches. 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:07.880 So they're doing that kind of stuff from the start. 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:10.880 They're like, we can spread this out in a distributed style. 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:13.540 So no single thing has taken a huge hit. 00:20:13.860 --> 00:20:17.800 And if it fails in one place, the equivalent of pip could say, well, let's try a mirror 00:20:17.800 --> 00:20:19.500 or something like that, you know? 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:19.900 Yeah. 00:20:19.900 --> 00:20:21.000 And yeah. 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.620 Anyway, so they're like, all right, well, 36 bucks a month. 00:20:23.620 --> 00:20:25.960 And on top of that, what were they doing before? 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.020 AWS is what they were doing before, I believe. 00:20:28.020 --> 00:20:33.100 So on AWS, if they wanted to push out a new website deploy, it took five minutes to push 00:20:33.100 --> 00:20:35.560 it out, deploy, go through all the stuff just to get it up. 00:20:35.560 --> 00:20:39.680 And on their little Hetzner server, it takes zero, takes two seconds. 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.560 It's so crazy. 00:20:41.560 --> 00:20:42.480 To set up the job. 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:42.840 Yeah. 00:20:42.840 --> 00:20:43.640 Yeah. 00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:45.920 Basically to call start and then off it goes, right? 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:47.520 There's probably something like check every second. 00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:48.960 There's a new job or whatever. 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.600 Anyway, I think this is a, you know, packaging is a big conversation. 00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:55.280 Cloud, no cloud is a big conversation. 00:20:55.280 --> 00:21:01.620 Costs and risks like the black swan of, well, what if the people backing Pythons, especially 00:21:01.620 --> 00:21:04.640 PyPI, that infrastructure, what if they decided to stop? 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.400 Like how do you get a hundred thousand dollars a month all of a sudden? 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:07.840 Yeah. 00:21:07.840 --> 00:21:08.940 You know, that's a big deal. 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:12.860 I think people would figure it out, but it would be a big disruption where like, okay, 00:21:12.860 --> 00:21:13.780 what are we going to set up? 00:21:13.780 --> 00:21:18.640 And this PEP with self-hosted wheels is like a done, a bit of a deposit down on that. 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:23.860 But anyway, this is interesting from a growing, but not yet super popular language. 00:21:23.860 --> 00:21:24.200 Yeah. 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:24.780 Interesting. 00:21:24.780 --> 00:21:25.200 Cool. 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:26.180 Indeed. 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:34.240 And all the curly braces and stuff were because it's mentioned by Corky that it's also interoperable 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:34.700 with C. 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:35.860 So that's interesting. 00:21:35.860 --> 00:21:36.140 Cool. 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:36.500 Yeah. 00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:36.980 Yeah. 00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:38.060 It says it's more like C. 00:21:38.060 --> 00:21:39.140 I suppose so. 00:21:39.140 --> 00:21:40.940 It's, it's an interesting link. 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:41.440 All right. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.500 Well, that's it for our main topics. 00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:44.500 Got any extras? 00:21:44.500 --> 00:21:47.100 I just have one extra that's going on. 00:21:47.100 --> 00:21:48.560 I wanted to let people know about. 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.660 on, at the testing code, Python test.com. 00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:58.960 I've got courses and, and that's, they're going well and I'm glad people are getting 00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.360 value. 00:21:59.360 --> 00:22:04.960 But I also had a community and the community have a community, but it, it used to be on Slack, 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:06.580 but it's one of those growth things. 00:22:06.580 --> 00:22:09.620 Slack was, it was free on Slack and now it's not. 00:22:09.620 --> 00:22:16.160 and so we switched to a Podia based forum and it's just not fun. 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:22.420 So, and, I mean, great that Podia offers a forum since the courses are on Podia, 00:22:22.420 --> 00:22:29.180 but the, I'm going to say after several months of being on Podia and only like five 00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:32.340 comments on there, it's not, it's just not cutting it. 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:33.260 It's not sparking joy. 00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:33.960 No. 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:40.460 So we're going to, we're going to try discord and, and so just, I guess, 00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:41.880 hang in there, everyone. 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:46.060 I'm trying to trying to get it associated so that everybody has that has community access 00:22:46.060 --> 00:22:48.320 will get access to the discord server. 00:22:48.320 --> 00:22:52.360 And, I'll probably, I don't know what we're going to do. 00:22:52.360 --> 00:22:53.500 I want it to be sustainable. 00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:55.300 So it can't just be completely free. 00:22:55.300 --> 00:23:00.800 but I also want it to, and, but I want it to be something that's easy for everybody to 00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:01.180 get into. 00:23:01.320 --> 00:23:03.480 So I guess, just stay tuned. 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.180 we'll get that all ironed out as soon as we can. 00:23:06.180 --> 00:23:08.520 So anyway, any extras from you? 00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:09.460 Yeah, I got a few. 00:23:09.460 --> 00:23:10.740 It's, it's tricky, right? 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:13.320 You want to pick something where people already are. 00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:16.900 Like they've got some app like Slack or discord or something open. 00:23:16.900 --> 00:23:21.520 There's a lot of cool options that you could pick even some neat self hosted ones. 00:23:21.520 --> 00:23:25.260 But if it's a completely different app that people have to remember to open instead of 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:29.320 just another tab next to the thing they're already in, I think it's, it changes it, you 00:23:29.320 --> 00:23:30.320 know? 00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:30.320 So there's a problem. 00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:33.520 Like, for example, they got to go to podium versus like, oh, I'm over on this thing. 00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:37.260 And now I just go to the next tab open to see what's happening in this community. 00:23:37.260 --> 00:23:38.280 Yeah. 00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:43.920 So, and I even like when I mentioned it to my, so my daughter's in healthcare, she's not 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.280 even like my oldest daughter. 00:23:45.280 --> 00:23:48.920 And, and, and I mentioned it to her and she's like, oh, I can help you with that. 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:50.040 I'm on discord all the time. 00:23:50.040 --> 00:23:51.020 I'm like, oh, okay. 00:23:51.020 --> 00:23:52.200 great. 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:53.360 So that's awesome. 00:23:53.360 --> 00:23:54.300 I love it. 00:23:54.300 --> 00:23:55.240 All right. 00:23:55.240 --> 00:23:55.960 I got some extras. 00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:56.520 Okay. 00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:00.080 One, still, still living the Zen, Zen browser lifestyle. 00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:01.400 It's, it's pretty good. 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.000 So I'm going to keep going with that. 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.200 That's fun, but that's not actually an extra. 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:11.340 First extra is I was on the work item podcast talking with Dan over there for an hour about 00:24:11.340 --> 00:24:13.320 Python and business and stuff. 00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:14.940 And people can check that out if they want. 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:15.360 That's fun. 00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.840 Neat. 00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:16.360 Yes. 00:24:16.360 --> 00:24:21.500 I feel like I, let me know if I talked about this before, Brian, I searched and searched 00:24:21.500 --> 00:24:24.740 and couldn't find it, but in my mind, we talked about, did, did I talk about the fact 00:24:24.740 --> 00:24:28.440 that you can subscribe as an RSS to GitHub releases? 00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:29.660 I don't know. 00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:30.480 I don't think so. 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:31.820 Cause I couldn't find it in my mind. 00:24:31.820 --> 00:24:32.100 I did. 00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:38.020 But anyway, if you go to any release and you just type dot Adam on the end, what you get 00:24:38.020 --> 00:24:42.440 is a popular download window instead of showing it, but it gives you an RSS feed. 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:43.940 So go to your project. 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:46.580 You like click on the releases and put dot Adam on the end. 00:24:46.580 --> 00:24:48.640 And you can put that in your RSS feeder reader. 00:24:48.820 --> 00:24:52.620 So that'll pop up if you like, Hey, there's a new release of this thing that I'm interested 00:24:52.620 --> 00:24:52.860 in. 00:24:52.860 --> 00:24:53.920 That's pretty cool. 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:58.040 And then let me make sure I attribution, right. 00:24:58.040 --> 00:24:59.320 This is Jamie Thompson. 00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:05.940 So this over and said, there's a new release of PI test BDD behavior driven design in not 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:08.400 just a new release, but 8.0, which is a big release. 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:08.640 Right. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.040 And probably the most interesting thing is the data tables. 00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:12.120 Have you seen these data tables? 00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:12.960 That's neat. 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:18.120 It's kind of like a parameterized query, but it's also kind of like a markdown table. 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.940 Given the following users exist. 00:25:19.940 --> 00:25:23.640 And then you just have pipe, you know, a header pipe name, pipe email, pipe Twitter, 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.600 and then values just row, row, row, row, row. 00:25:26.600 --> 00:25:27.360 That's pretty neat. 00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:27.560 Yeah. 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:27.960 Yeah. 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:28.460 All right. 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:33.860 So anyway, if people like their BDD, they can check out my test BDD. 00:25:33.860 --> 00:25:34.520 That's pretty cool. 00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:38.620 Also last week I rewrote all the code. 00:25:38.740 --> 00:25:45.240 I did a little terminal CLI magic and there are a little over 10,000 lines of Python code 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:47.080 that don't involve blank space. 00:25:47.080 --> 00:25:52.260 So meaningful lines for talk Python and Python bytes a little bit less, but not tremendously 00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:52.640 less. 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:58.020 I rewrote that in court, which is asynchronous flask, which was pretty awesome. 00:25:58.360 --> 00:26:03.280 So this thing is, is running a little more efficiently, a little bit faster, a little bit better than 00:26:03.280 --> 00:26:03.920 it was before. 00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:09.900 And completely rewriting 10,000 lines of code in two days is, is quite a, quite an undertaking. 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:10.980 You're tired at the end of that. 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:11.580 Let me tell you. 00:26:12.580 --> 00:26:13.440 But it's awesome. 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:14.480 It came out really, really well. 00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:15.960 I did it in two rewrites, actually. 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:20.500 One rewrite to just convert it from pyramid to flask, and then a second rewrite to convert 00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:25.260 it from sync to async for almost every endpoint and all the code below it and all that, all the 00:26:25.260 --> 00:26:26.500 database queries and stuff like that. 00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:30.940 So did it affect like everything or did it, what were the main parts? 00:26:30.940 --> 00:26:35.760 There were, there was, there's certain parts that it doesn't affect, but anything with database 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:37.500 access required it. 00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:41.460 And then there's, there's all in, in web frameworks, when you're writing web apps, you're always 00:26:41.460 --> 00:26:45.900 dealing with little aspects of that's frameworks API. 00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:51.540 So I need to get the URL of the current request to see if I should do a redirect or 00:26:51.540 --> 00:26:52.060 not. 00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:56.800 Well, the way you get the URL is completely different in pyramid versus flask. 00:26:56.800 --> 00:27:02.720 So anything that kind of touched headers, cookies, URLs, you know, if you want to know if somebody's 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:05.540 logged in and that's, you know, that's also a cookie, right? 00:27:05.540 --> 00:27:11.280 There's, it's surprisingly knock on effects and flask and quartz a little bit funky in 00:27:11.280 --> 00:27:15.460 some ways where there's this thread local requests that you can just access out of thin air, 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:16.220 which is cool. 00:27:16.220 --> 00:27:19.840 Unless for some reason the call started here and it ends up over there. 00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:25.060 Maybe there was a thread or some kind of delay where that's become disconnected that it'll 00:27:25.060 --> 00:27:28.300 complain to you that it doesn't know what the request is, even though you have a request 00:27:28.300 --> 00:27:28.660 object. 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:30.640 Like there's a lot of weird changes. 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:31.460 So yeah. 00:27:31.460 --> 00:27:32.840 But anyway, it was really fun. 00:27:32.840 --> 00:27:35.820 I'm doing a write-up on that, but I just thought I'd throw that out there and that's going 00:27:35.820 --> 00:27:36.080 well. 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:36.460 Cool. 00:27:36.460 --> 00:27:37.200 And that's it. 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.300 Shall we, shall we tell a joke? 00:27:39.300 --> 00:27:40.560 A joke would be wonderful. 00:27:40.820 --> 00:27:44.940 This one, we've done short form jokes and we've done long form jokes, Brian. 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:47.660 This might be the best long form joke. 00:27:47.660 --> 00:27:51.480 So y'all are going to have to stick with me for just a second here, but check this out. 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.320 Here's the breaking headline. 00:27:53.320 --> 00:27:53.840 Breaking. 00:27:53.840 --> 00:27:58.840 JavaScript developer commits to a framework for a record-breaking three weeks. 00:28:00.100 --> 00:28:05.200 Of course, it comes with a picture of a clown luring JavaScript developers into some shady 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:05.500 spot. 00:28:05.500 --> 00:28:07.280 But let me read the press release, okay? 00:28:07.280 --> 00:28:08.680 Simi Valley, California. 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:14.260 In an unprecedented display of consistency that has left the tech world reeling, local web 00:28:14.260 --> 00:28:19.120 developer Alex Chen, 28, has reportedly stuck with the same JavaScript framework for an astonishing 00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:19.820 three weeks. 00:28:19.820 --> 00:28:24.840 Chen, known in the local dev circles as the framework whisperer, or his abilities to adopt 00:28:24.840 --> 00:28:31.380 and discard JS frameworks at breakneck speeds, has been using Svelte without interruption since 00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:36.760 August 1st, shattering his previous record of four days set with Vue.js back in 2022. 00:28:36.760 --> 00:28:41.400 I don't know what came over me, Chen said, visibly shaken by his own stability. 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.340 I woke up one morning and I just don't feel like switching to Angular or React or that new 00:28:45.340 --> 00:28:46.920 framework that was released during the interview. 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.740 The news has sent shockwaves through the JavaScript community. 00:28:50.740 --> 00:28:56.080 Framework creators are reportedly in crisis mode, with one ace anonymous source from a 00:28:56.080 --> 00:29:00.500 major tech company stating, if developers start sticking with one framework, how will 00:29:00.500 --> 00:29:01.520 we justify our jobs? 00:29:01.520 --> 00:29:05.300 Chen's colleagues have expressed a mix of awe and concern. 00:29:05.300 --> 00:29:08.480 Senior developer Lisa Patel noted, I'm worried about Alex. 00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:12.900 Yesterday, I caught him reading the documentation instead of immediately rewriting our entire 00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:14.160 code base in a new framework. 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.240 It's not like him at all. 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.600 The unprecedented event has not been without its challenges. 00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:24.000 Chen admitted to suffering from withdrawal symptoms, including uncontrollable urges to 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:30.540 create new npm packages and a persistent eye twitch triggered by the site of a stable 00:29:30.540 --> 00:29:31.320 well-maintained code. 00:29:31.320 --> 00:29:34.420 Despite the difficulties, Chen remains committed to seeing this through. 00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:38.620 Taking it one day at a time, he said, his fingers twitching as he resists the urge to type 00:29:38.620 --> 00:29:39.960 NPX create next app. 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:44.840 But I've heard whispers of a revolutionary new framework that's only been downloaded 50 times. 00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:47.280 Maybe I'll check it out, you know, just to stay informed. 00:29:47.280 --> 00:29:48.860 Good, right? 00:29:49.660 --> 00:29:50.380 That's funny. 00:29:50.380 --> 00:29:51.700 Yeah. 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:53.580 You got to appreciate the stability. 00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:57.140 Appreciate the stability of Django, of Python, of a lot of things that we got. 00:29:57.140 --> 00:30:03.020 I mean, it's a joke, but it's also true that there's a lot of churn on that space. 00:30:03.020 --> 00:30:03.400 Yeah. 00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.500 I mean, like how many people here are like, should I stick with Python or should I go to 00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:08.520 Zig now? 00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:09.400 Yeah, I know. 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:12.960 Well, we might have just, we might have sent a whole bunch of people over there unintentionally. 00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:13.980 That wasn't the intention. 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.980 I mean, Zig has a lot less. 00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:20.740 I mean, I don't think tractor when I think Zig, but Rust kind of. 00:30:20.740 --> 00:30:21.520 Yeah, true. 00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:26.200 Well, and if you want to make sure you're alphabetically sorted to the very end, right by the comment 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.100 section, Zig. 00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:27.840 Yeah. 00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:31.980 So people just like change frameworks by the alphabet and then they turn out. 00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.300 You get to the end. 00:30:33.300 --> 00:30:34.820 They're like, well, there's nothing left to change. 00:30:34.820 --> 00:30:35.340 They're over here. 00:30:35.340 --> 00:30:37.460 Nice. 00:30:37.460 --> 00:30:39.620 Well, always, always lovely to have you here. 00:30:39.620 --> 00:30:40.000 Thanks. 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.800 Thank you. 00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:41.200 Yep.