WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:04.200 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:11.660 your earbuds. This is episode 416, recorded January 13th, 2025. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.660 --> 00:00:12.680 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:12.680 --> 00:00:16.400 This episode is brought to you by us. Check out our stuff that we're doing 00:00:16.400 --> 00:00:20.540 over at Brian's course. Where's your course, Brian? I forgot the URL. 00:00:20.540 --> 00:00:21.920 pythontest.com. 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:27.300 pythontest.com. That's right. And over at Talk Python Training. Links are in the podcast 00:00:27.300 --> 00:00:32.320 player show notes or on the homepage, all of those things. Follow us on Mastodon and Bluesky. 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:37.200 We love to connect with people over there. In fact, Brian, you don't really have visibility 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:41.800 into this yet, but there's a bunch of recommendations I got from, I think it was Bluesky, 00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:44.020 which fills out many of my topics today. 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:44.800 Nice. 00:00:44.800 --> 00:00:50.180 Yes. And I encourage people to follow us out there. Use the starter pack on my profile if they wish. 00:00:50.180 --> 00:00:55.140 And if you want to get all this stuff sent to you automatically as an email, and this might be 00:00:55.140 --> 00:00:58.700 getting an upgrade. We're not entirely sure yet. We're playing around with some ideas here. 00:00:58.700 --> 00:00:59.020 Yeah. 00:00:59.020 --> 00:01:02.200 Content-wise. But you should definitely subscribe to the email. 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:05.760 I don't buy stat.fm. Click on newsletter. Guess what? You'll get a newsletter if you do it. That'd 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:11.180 be awesome. We'd love to talk to you there. And with that, Happy New Year, Brian. It's been a 00:01:11.180 --> 00:01:16.740 couple of weeks we've been on break. Some of it by decision, some of it mandatory by family stuff, 00:01:16.740 --> 00:01:20.920 all those kinds of things. That's on my end. But welcome back. Happy New Year. 00:01:20.980 --> 00:01:27.340 Welcome back. Yes. Thanks. It's really good to be back. I'm glad to start talking coding and Python 00:01:27.340 --> 00:01:28.420 on the air again. 00:01:28.420 --> 00:01:34.120 Yeah, absolutely. You get to this age where you get phone calls out of the blue. You've got to come 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:41.100 help your father with this because he's old and can't do stuff. And just sometimes you jump on a 00:01:41.100 --> 00:01:46.880 plane for non-vacation reasons and it's not as fun as it could be, but you got to do it. That was me 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:52.560 last week. Okay. Well, how about this week? What do you got for us? Well, I was thinking that this 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:58.280 week at the start of the new year, people might be thinking of some changes. So some of the changes 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:04.240 they might be thinking about is terminal or shell changes. If you're kind of a terminal person, 00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:10.040 and especially if you were a macOS or Linux user, one of the things that just came out recently is 00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:19.960 ghosty. So at G H O S T T Y, get it go T T Y. Yeah, that's clever. That's clever. It's a it's a fast 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:27.100 feature rich and cross platform terminal emulator that uses platform native UI and GPU acceleration. 00:02:27.100 --> 00:02:34.720 So super fast, super featured. Why am I covering this? It's kind of fun actually. So ghosty, 00:02:34.720 --> 00:02:39.180 have you heard about this? I have absolutely heard about it. I haven't installed. I have played with 00:02:39.180 --> 00:02:46.160 it. It is fun. It is not yet dethroned warp as my way to my go to yet, but I like it. Both of them 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:51.460 are written in high speed languages. I think ghosted is zig of all zig language is awesome. And yeah, 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:57.480 warp is rust, but yeah, I love it. Okay. Yep. So ghosty just came out. Let's see. They did the 00:02:57.480 --> 00:03:03.300 announcement announcement of a release in October, but it it just came out at the end of the year. I 00:03:03.300 --> 00:03:11.600 think it was the 31st of December or something like that in into the year. But it's so what, why, 00:03:11.600 --> 00:03:17.820 why am I talking about this? Because it's it's kind of fun. And also it has some interesting heritage. 00:03:17.820 --> 00:03:24.800 So this is started by Mitchell Hashimoto, which is one of the co-founders of HashiCorp. He think he 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:32.900 left HashiCorp in 2023, but anyway, some, some, some nice heritage. It's a feature rich. What does 00:03:32.900 --> 00:03:38.540 feature rich mean? That's a, it's a fast feature rich, fast. It's got themes. It's got all that stuff, 00:03:38.540 --> 00:03:45.100 sort of stuff. But a couple of reviews that I was reading of it were saying that it really is pretty 00:03:45.100 --> 00:03:51.000 fast and partly because it's less code. They really, the code for it is a lot stream, 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:59.080 more streamlined than a lot of other things. And, and having it be native and really focusing on some 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:04.740 of the speed and as well as features. So the tagline really, when you go to the about page, 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:09.980 it says there are many, many excellent terminal emulators available, but they all kind of force you 00:04:09.980 --> 00:04:17.100 to either choose speed features or a native UI and ghost D wants to do all three. And I kind of like 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:21.940 that. I've had issues with things that don't really look like, you know, they're not, they don't really 00:04:21.940 --> 00:04:28.800 look like a native feel. Anyway. I kind of, I haven't, I've just downloaded it, started playing with it a 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:33.420 little bit. I haven't done much with it, but a lot of people on a blue sky were talking about it and 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:40.760 masked over the break. as far as shells go, so ghosty does integrate with, with shells, 00:04:40.760 --> 00:04:46.780 with different shells that integrates with, it says, some of the features require integrating with 00:04:46.780 --> 00:04:52.860 your shell. It automatically does automatic injection of shell integration for bash, Z shell, 00:04:52.860 --> 00:05:00.680 fish and elvish. And I've been thinking about fish because fish was actually in the news as well. 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:08.020 fish, you're, you're into jam bands. I got it. Yeah. I kind of forgot about fish anyway. 00:05:08.020 --> 00:05:16.120 but, and then the announcement at in December as well is that fish shell, is the 4.0 is in beta 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:22.340 and it is rewritten in rust. So, that's kind of fun. Do you know what it was written in before? 00:05:22.340 --> 00:05:30.440 I think it was CVC or C++. Yeah. a port from C++ to rust. So, not sure about 00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:35.960 the reasons around that, but it's kind of fun. if you, it'd be fun to get, if you want to contribute 00:05:35.960 --> 00:05:41.700 or whatever, I think there's more energy around rust than C++ right now. Yeah. one of the 00:05:41.700 --> 00:05:46.540 things that I'm, I'm intrigued by with fish because I I've been setting up new environments 00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:52.520 lately and stuff and, and I like my environment, my shell environment, but, keeping it all 00:05:52.520 --> 00:05:59.820 like all the extras on different machines is, is a little tricky. and, apparently fish has a, 00:05:59.820 --> 00:06:04.520 I haven't used fish, but apparently fish has a lot of stuff built in that, that other people have 00:06:04.520 --> 00:06:10.340 have to configure later. So, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'll check that out. Very nice. Yeah. Are you, 00:06:10.340 --> 00:06:15.560 you used to do a Z shell and oh my Z shell? Are you still? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. If, 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:20.540 if I use the regular terminal or I term or stuff like that, then I am, but I think with warp, 00:06:20.540 --> 00:06:26.480 I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I'm sure that it, it doesn't run Z shell, not directly anyway. It may 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:32.660 underneath the cover somehow, but it feels like it kind of does its own thing, you know? Yeah. And I'm 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:37.660 enjoying it. It comes to be built with a lot of stuff that I used to install like McFly and other 00:06:37.660 --> 00:06:43.640 types of stuff. Well, so I used to have, it used to be a heavy duty Z shell user and had tons of 00:06:43.640 --> 00:06:48.980 configuration changes. But when I started doing a bunch of machines, I kind of just went back to 00:06:48.980 --> 00:06:54.900 vanilla bash and with a, with just a, like a bash or C file. but we'll see. 00:06:54.900 --> 00:06:59.980 It's the history. The history is so hard on bash compared to some of the other things, 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:03.740 unless you configure it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, what you got for us? 00:07:03.740 --> 00:07:10.780 All right. Let's take it for a loop here. This one comes to us from Owen Lamont. And I told you 00:07:10.780 --> 00:07:16.340 stuff was coming from blue sky and Owen has a special honor in this episode. He doesn't know it, 00:07:16.340 --> 00:07:24.100 but he might have a, a perfect, perfect, trifecta sort of thing going on here. So this, 00:07:24.100 --> 00:07:27.860 this one that we're going to cover, he pointed out. And then the next one we're going to cover 00:07:28.060 --> 00:07:33.320 is, the next one I'm going to cover is my second main topic is actually created by him. 00:07:33.320 --> 00:07:38.980 Then something else, I can't remember exactly what it was, was referred to. So he's got three things in 00:07:38.980 --> 00:07:43.700 three different sections, which is pretty wild. So Owen, thanks for sending this in. And like, 00:07:43.700 --> 00:07:48.640 like I said, I encourage lots of people, to send their stuff in because that is a super helpful 00:07:48.640 --> 00:07:55.820 and we'd love to have it up. So this one is called wind loop. Now, something that's a hassle is if 00:07:55.820 --> 00:08:02.940 you're working in asyncio, well, asyncio is not as high performance as it could be, right? So there 00:08:02.940 --> 00:08:10.800 are things like uv lib, which is the backend powering things like uvloop, hence wind loop, uvloop. 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:17.700 The problem is uvloop is not compatible with windows, even though the foundation of 00:08:17.700 --> 00:08:24.940 lib uv is compatible. Make that make sense, huh? So this person came along and worked on it, 00:08:24.940 --> 00:08:30.360 Vizonext and said, all right, I've been waiting for people to set this up and make it work. And well, 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:34.520 I guess I'm going to have to do it myself. So he said, because nobody was willing to step up after so 00:08:34.520 --> 00:08:38.880 many years of waiting, I went ahead and downloaded the source code for uvloop, started modifying the 00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:43.220 source code, to be windows compatible by carefully removing and changing parts that were 00:08:43.220 --> 00:08:48.960 not made for windows, such as forking processes rather than launching sub processes and so on and 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:55.040 so on. So here's a, does it have any, any, benchmarks? Where are your benchmarks? I think 00:08:55.040 --> 00:09:00.700 it might actually, no. Yeah, it does have some benchmarks. So this is a way to replace the asyncio 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:08.820 event loop to upgrade it to have faster performance, much like uv lib, uvloop does for Mac and Linux. 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:13.940 But you can just do that here and you can kind of use them both, right? You can just do sort of a 00:09:13.940 --> 00:09:19.440 import, try, except like try to import this or check your platform and import the right thing and just 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:25.840 sort of swap between them. Okay, cool. Yeah. So, it says if you run it, with the different 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:30.260 policies, it'll show you like how much faster, you can get like, it gets, I don't know, 00:09:30.260 --> 00:09:34.140 is this like five times faster or something for some benchmark, you know, all those things go. 00:09:34.140 --> 00:09:39.580 And then where are we? They've got some nice examples. Yeah. It says, check out the, 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:45.580 how to use when loop when uvloop is not available. So it just basically says if the platform is when 00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:53.340 32 sigwin or CLI, just import the run method from when loop, otherwise import it from uv lib. You could 00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:59.760 also probably, you know, probably a nice way would just to be set the asyncio event loop policy before 00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:04.120 an event loop comes into existence, which then when it goes and creates a no event loop automatically, 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:08.560 it'll use the when, when loop or uvloop one or whatever, but yeah, people can check it out. 00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:13.420 It shows how to use it with FastAPI, and things like that. So pretty neat, I think. 00:10:13.420 --> 00:10:20.000 Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So if you're doing asyncio stuff and you're on windows and you've been like, 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.120 people keep telling me uvloop is awesome. I hear you. I can't use it. When loop, check it out. 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:29.200 And thanks Owen for sending that in. I also kind of, I really liked that it kind of works with 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:35.280 both or you can, you can have, have some examples to use both because there are people that are test, 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:41.100 you know, test developing on windows and pushing to the Linux. So yeah. Or you're a framework creator 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:46.460 and you have users on both. Yeah. Which you should think about because like we've said before, 00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:50.960 it's like over half of the Python users are using windows. So yeah, the majority, 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:57.280 if you single down to a single platform, the majority, the biggest one is windows and then 00:10:57.280 --> 00:11:02.800 it breaks into pieces. Right. Yeah. Luckily all the other pieces are Linux sort of things. 00:11:02.800 --> 00:11:07.760 That's right. And that, I think that's the problem is right. Everything is POSIX like 00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:14.480 except for windows. Right. That's a challenge. So yeah. Oh, well, anyway. Okay. Well, let's, 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:19.760 let's take a look to get this right. Oh, I've got some news from, from both from astral, 00:11:19.760 --> 00:11:26.400 a couple of astral topics, uv and Ruff. first off, I saw this like little notice that there's 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:34.160 a rough 2025 style guide and I'm like, well, what do we need a new style guide for 2025? but, 00:11:34.160 --> 00:11:37.840 but I'm really, there's a bunch of stuff in here, but what I'm really excited about is the, 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:43.840 the modifications to the F string formatting. And yeah. I, we're getting really nerdy here. If, 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.800 if you're getting excited about F string format, but F yes, there was a great sticker for us that 00:11:48.800 --> 00:11:55.200 F yes, when the strings came out. so one of the cool things is, I guess it didn't do deal 00:11:55.200 --> 00:12:02.640 with the, formatting the expressions inside, the interpolated expressions inside of the curly 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:08.080 braces inside of an F string. And so, yeah, often it's just a variable name, which isn't a big deal, 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:13.680 but you can put code in there and, and now, now rough, we'll, we'll, 00:12:13.680 --> 00:12:19.360 we'll format that correctly. So, it's doing like, like here's, it shows an example of like, 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:25.680 uh, you know, layer layer method plus five and it was two stuck together. So now, rough will 00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:30.000 spread it out a little bit. I do that all the time. Like if I have a time delta and I want to know how 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:35.120 much time I want to represent that in milliseconds, but it has a total seconds. So I'll just times a 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:40.160 thousand. Yeah. And actually more and more now I'm like, do I really need to assign this to a variable 00:12:40.160 --> 00:12:43.360 just so I can stick it into an F string. I'll just stick the code in the F string. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.800 so I'm doing that more and more. So having a rough deal with that is great. But with that also, 00:12:48.800 --> 00:12:53.760 there's a bunch of other cool things like, quotes are now normalized in f-strings according 00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:58.640 to a project configuration. So if you want, if you set it to be double quotes or single quotes, 00:12:58.640 --> 00:13:04.800 it'll deal with that. But, and they're left untouched if normalizing would result in an invalid 00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:10.320 F string, of course it checks to make sure it doesn't make things up, looks for, 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:16.240 unnecessary, escape, like back tick or the, you know, the backslash, if it doesn't, 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.240 if it's not needed to be there. So that's nice. Yeah. That's excellent. Like for example, 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.320 you have single quote and then you will have another single quote in the string. You've got to escape it. 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.400 It'll rather than leave it there, it'll convert it, the outer strength to double quotes. So you 00:13:28.400 --> 00:13:33.440 just don't need that escape at all, which is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. and then, 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:39.200 one of the last things is, it looks at the interpolated expressions in an F string to see 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:45.520 whether it might be acceptable to split the F string over multiple lines. So, and, and it has done 00:13:45.520 --> 00:13:50.400 that with strings of splitting it on multiple lines. But I don't think it did that with f-strings before 00:13:50.400 --> 00:13:54.000 because it could have mucked up the interpolation. Now it's figuring that out. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:59.040 And doing the right thing. So, it just lots, lots of good cleanup work for F string. 00:13:59.040 --> 00:14:03.520 there's other stuff in here too, that, that I think is really nice. There's a, 00:14:03.520 --> 00:14:08.160 prefer wrapping the assert message. Basically, do I care about this? Not really, except for, 00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:13.440 I like the new one better. It looks better. so sure. better looking code is always a good thing. 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:18.640 So thanks Astral for not like ignore it. I mean, rough is why we've got fell in love with these guys 00:14:18.640 --> 00:14:23.120 in the first place. And yeah, so, so I'm glad that there's still work going on here. 00:14:23.680 --> 00:14:28.240 now I've got a bit of a tangent that seems like a tangent, but not really. 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:36.160 the Python 3.14, 314, the PI release of Python is in alpha right now. December, as of December 00:14:36.160 --> 00:14:41.680 17th, there's the alpha three. So it's been an alpha for a while. but so you can play with it, 00:14:41.680 --> 00:14:48.240 but how do you play with it if you're kind of a uv person? Well, Charlie Marsh posted, 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:57.520 uh, in just on the seventh that you can use, what was that uv Python? Yeah. 3.14. And then you 00:14:57.520 --> 00:15:05.120 do --preview because 3.14 isn't there yet, but if you use the preview, it works. And after I've, 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:11.360 after I did this now I can just, now I don't have to use preview when I just say like uv, V and V, 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:17.520 uh, and then pick up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 3.14 or whatever. Yeah. It just works because 00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:22.800 this is now it's on my machine. So, so there's a preview mode to grab that, which is really nice. 00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:27.920 I like it. Oh, that's excellent. Yeah. They're doing really good work over there and you're right that, 00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:34.080 that rough started it all. So that's, that's really cool to see. And one of the things that I've noticed 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:40.540 that I'm, I wasn't really up for a lot of the, like the big packagers to create my PI project 00:15:40.540 --> 00:15:47.740 Toml for me and to start a project, but uv in it, it rocks. it does just enough. Like if you 00:15:47.740 --> 00:15:53.740 pop into a new, a new project and just say uv and like you, you start coding and you say uv in it, 00:15:53.740 --> 00:15:59.340 it creates enough boiler plate. That's good, but not too much. Like it'll generate a PI project. Toml for 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:05.260 you. but it's not too big. You can just, you know, add more stuff. Yeah. That is such a balancing act, 00:16:05.260 --> 00:16:08.540 right? Like I'm going to create a new project, run this cookie cutter or this other template. 00:16:08.540 --> 00:16:13.100 Do you want to use Postgres? How about celery? Do you like caching? What kind of are like, 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:17.740 whoa, whoa, I just, I just don't, I just need to like a PI project Toml on a few things and what's 00:16:17.740 --> 00:16:22.540 the right layout relative structure. Let's, let's not overdo it, you know? Yeah. 00:16:22.540 --> 00:16:28.620 That's too much opinion. and then, also uv sync. I'm using a uv sync all the time. So you 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:33.740 clone a project and do uv sync and it'll pick up the project Toml and create a virtual environment and 00:16:33.740 --> 00:16:41.100 all that. So nice. Well, I really appreciate your perfect segue because this next topic of mine is 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:47.500 called uv dash secure. Nice. Pretty awesome. This was the one created by Owen Lamont and he just 00:16:47.500 --> 00:16:52.940 released, he's been working on for a little while and people might be familiar with pip audit. So pip 00:16:52.940 --> 00:16:58.940 audit will go and look at what is installed in your virtual environment. So I've got a virtual environment. 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:05.260 I've installed some packages through whatever pip install dash E or through just pip install or dash 00:17:05.260 --> 00:17:11.180 requirements, however you get it, right? You've got all those requirements installed. And what if there's 00:17:11.180 --> 00:17:17.500 some kind of malware or some other horrible thing that you mistyped like Jane, Jane Gagu or I don't know, 00:17:17.500 --> 00:17:21.580 whatever, like you, somehow you miss a letter and you get something terrible or something was just 00:17:21.580 --> 00:17:26.220 taken over. It was fine. And then it wasn't fine. This will go, pip audit will go back and talk to, 00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:31.020 you can't remember exactly what it's going back to, but there's an API that checks for vulnerabilities 00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:35.820 in different packages. And basically if a vulnerability is found, it's listed there. You'll know, right? 00:17:35.820 --> 00:17:40.140 Cool. Cool. So that's great. But that requires you to have all those things installed. 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:47.740 Oh yeah. And it doesn't work. It doesn't like look at things like the uv lock file. So uv secure allows you 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:56.060 to ask, Hey, what is the status and vulnerability story of my project before I install them? Right. It's, it's good to 00:17:56.060 --> 00:18:00.860 know, Hey, you've installed a virus that is now running loose in your computer. You'll want to try to work on that, 00:18:00.860 --> 00:18:08.540 get it out. It's better to know before you install it. Okay. Right. And so when Owen submitted this to us, I'm like, this is awesome, 00:18:08.540 --> 00:18:17.420 but I'm not a uv sync kind of guy. I'm a uv pip install and a uv pip compile to generate a requirements.txt file. 00:18:17.420 --> 00:18:25.500 So he said, no problem. I'll update it to also do requirements files. And then I ran that just go in 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:31.580 to the working folder for Python bytes and say uv dash secure. So first of all, you can install it with 00:18:31.580 --> 00:18:37.100 UV as a tool or with pip X or however you want. Then you say uv dash secure, and it'll say, I'm looking at 00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:41.740 this requirements file, or I'm looking at this lock file or whatever it is. And it'll take a minute. 00:18:41.740 --> 00:18:48.540 Cause it's, you know, the Python bytes project has 86 packages it uses. So it calls that API 86 times 00:18:48.540 --> 00:18:52.780 and gets a response. There's a bit of a delay there. Sure. You could parallelize that, but maybe harm the 00:18:52.780 --> 00:18:58.060 API. I don't know how much it can take in parallel, but anyway, it says if there's a problem or whether 00:18:58.060 --> 00:19:03.340 everything looks safe and Hey, everything looks good. Gotta love that. Nice. Yeah. So, nice work on that, 00:19:03.340 --> 00:19:10.860 Owen and yeah, people can check out uv secure. Cool. Yep. And yeah, there it is. I'm being checked to see if 00:19:10.860 --> 00:19:15.420 I'm secure trying to pull it up, but yeah, scan your uv lock file for dependencies with known vulnerabilities. 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:22.780 And now also works with requirements.txt files that were generated by uv. I imagine with others as well, 00:19:22.780 --> 00:19:29.340 pinned ones at least, you know? Yeah. I mean, people might write their own now. Who knows? Whatever. 00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:34.700 Yeah. They might, they might. All right. that's it for our main items, isn't it? 00:19:34.700 --> 00:19:40.700 It is. Yeah. You got any extras? just, I guess, a little bit over the 00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:48.220 the, break I did, I did play around with PI test, more and, and, started testing 00:19:48.220 --> 00:19:53.740 code again. So, we'd talked about doing seasons. So I thought, yeah, what the heck I'll do. I'll, 00:19:53.740 --> 00:20:00.700 I'll shift over. And so after nine and a half years and 223 episodes, season two is starting. 00:20:03.260 --> 00:20:08.460 so I'm going to do PI test plugins. So please, anybody, so there's an episode up just 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:12.940 introducing the, introducing the season that there'll be probably short, short or long, 00:20:12.940 --> 00:20:17.180 depending on what we want to talk about for different plugins. some of them are going to 00:20:17.180 --> 00:20:23.420 combine, plugins, like all the orderings together or something or whatever, or individual ones. 00:20:23.420 --> 00:20:28.460 So, if you'd like to submit your favorite plugin or something you'd like me to take a look at, 00:20:28.460 --> 00:20:35.100 um, go ahead. And how would you do that? you would, either go to, to blue sky or mastodon. 00:20:35.100 --> 00:20:41.660 or I recently added a contact form on python test.com. Oh, I have to add my blue sky to that contact 00:20:41.660 --> 00:20:50.620 form also. Oh, come on now. Don't forget it. Anyway. So that's my extra. Excellent. And real-time follow-up, 00:20:50.620 --> 00:20:55.740 uh, you have Henny, out there points out that sneak maybe as possible does something similar. 00:20:55.740 --> 00:21:00.140 Yeah. And that's for sure. I wonder if it's using the sneak API for that uv secure. Not sure anyway, 00:21:00.140 --> 00:21:06.620 but MP bought it, but yeah, that's another thing to consider. Okay. I have a few extras. This is the 00:21:06.620 --> 00:21:10.780 try. This is the trifecta part and I'm just going to link to it. I'm not going to play it. We've already 00:21:10.780 --> 00:21:17.740 all had plenty of heavy metal, but Owen, was inspired by the funny song that we did with, remember 00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:24.380 the curl heavy metal, like super heavy metal. That was awesome. TLS connect. Oh, so, 00:21:24.380 --> 00:21:29.340 he did one for HTTP status codes and it goes through all the different HTTP status codes. So I'll link to 00:21:29.340 --> 00:21:33.180 that. You can play it. You make sure you turn on the audio cause it's off by default because it's 00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:39.980 pretty good. It's pretty good. I'm I do enjoy it. gosh, I wonder if it has, I'm a teapot in there. 00:21:39.980 --> 00:21:46.460 I didn't listen that hard before 18, 19, whatever it is. That's a pretty good one. Okay. So, 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:52.140 people can check that out. That's, that's pretty fun following on that. And, who knows, maybe I 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:56.380 might do some more fun stuff with songs later as well with some of these episodes. I think we can do it, 00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:59.580 but we're not doing this episode. We've got to play around. So another thing to announce is 00:21:59.580 --> 00:22:07.580 Picon Austria is coming. When is it coming in April 6th and 7th? And it's opening party on the 5th. I mean, 00:22:07.580 --> 00:22:13.420 who wouldn't want to go to a party in Austria, have some good beer. Yeah. Great. Yeah. So I met 00:22:13.420 --> 00:22:19.260 some of the folks behind this at Picon Slovakia 2018 when I was there giving a talk and they're 00:22:19.260 --> 00:22:23.020 putting this on. I think it is free. Yeah. Attendance is free, but space is limited. So you 00:22:23.020 --> 00:22:31.260 still got to sign up. So if you're near Austria in Austria or can take a train over to Austria and like 00:22:31.260 --> 00:22:36.300 to do that, you know, check it out. I would absolutely go if I could, but it intersects with some 00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:41.660 family stuff that I can't get out of. So I'm not going this year, unfortunately, because of the 00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:46.460 dates, but it still would be fun and people can check it out. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. All 00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:53.740 right. Another one, Leonard Richardson, the guy who created beautiful soup. this was sent into 00:22:53.740 --> 00:23:00.380 me. I want to give a little bit of a credit here as well. This one was sent in by Sue mana and she said, 00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:06.940 Hey, check it out. New updates for beautiful soup. Apparently this is a pretty big change for 13 beta 00:23:06.940 --> 00:23:12.380 three was just updated, uploaded to pipe AI and hoping to get another round of feedback says 00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:17.740 Leonard before the final release, because apparently some, there's some kind of changes and stuff and you 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:23.420 can check it out. There's a Google groups link to talk about the changes that he's proposing and trying 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:28.060 out and so on. That's pretty awesome. I think I've been using beautiful soup since I started using 00:23:28.060 --> 00:23:33.340 Python. yeah, yeah, I agree. If you scroll through the comments here, Eric Holscher says, 00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:37.420 I just want to say thanks. Beautiful soup has been a constant utility, basically as long as I've been 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:41.260 doing Python. So I thought that was a pretty apparent you're on the same vibe. They're pretty awesome. 00:23:41.260 --> 00:23:47.260 Yeah. Cool. So beautiful soup certainly rocks and I've used it a ton as well. Okay. I have one more 00:23:47.260 --> 00:23:53.260 extra Brian, but I want to close out the show with something special and unexpected for people. Okay. 00:23:53.260 --> 00:23:58.940 Okay. Okay. So in order to do that at the end, I think let's do the joke first. 00:23:58.940 --> 00:24:00.140 Oh, I'm all for jokes. 00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:06.620 Yeah. So you know what it's like to go to stack overflow, right? It's not, it's super helpful, 00:24:06.620 --> 00:24:10.700 but it can be a little prickly. Let's say, yeah, yeah. You'll submit a question like, 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:15.180 well, that question was answered seven, asked and answered seven years ago over there. Like, well, 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:18.780 yes, but it doesn't work that way anymore. Or, you know, you just, you shouldn't, 00:24:18.780 --> 00:24:24.060 why are you even asking this? You shouldn't do this. Right. So this comes back to a very common 00:24:24.060 --> 00:24:28.540 sort of question, you know, optimist versus pessimist, but we have a third category, 00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:34.940 a stack overflowist. Okay. So here's a glass. It's exactly 50% full of water. I mean, 00:24:34.940 --> 00:24:37.980 you can debate it's full of, it's a hundred percent full, but whatever. Like that's, 00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:42.540 that's not the debate. That's the chemistry joke. This one is the optimist pessimist versus stack 00:24:42.540 --> 00:24:48.140 overflowist. The first one is the optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass 00:24:48.140 --> 00:24:55.660 is half empty. The stack over for this says the glass is a stupid question. And so I've in the show 00:24:55.660 --> 00:25:02.140 notes, I entitled the joke. That's a stupid cup, stupid glass. I like it. Pretty good. Right? Yeah. 00:25:02.140 --> 00:25:07.420 Yeah. And then like, of course, I'm, I'm the nerd in me is looking at this going, 00:25:07.420 --> 00:25:11.900 well, visually it's halfway up, but the, since the cup is wider at the top, 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:16.940 it's got more, more air than it does. Anyway, I would say pessimist wins. 00:25:16.940 --> 00:25:21.480 It's going to go for this comes in second. Optimist. No, no, no, no. That's a stupid cup. Okay. 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.100 That's a stupid cup. All right. You ready for the last thing? This is pretty awesome. This is, 00:25:25.100 --> 00:25:29.060 this is pretty wild. We live in, we live in incredible times. So I've started doing this thing over at 00:25:29.060 --> 00:25:34.300 Talk Python. This is only tangentially the actual topic it is, but it isn't. I've started doing this 00:25:34.300 --> 00:25:39.340 thing called episode deep dive. So I wrote up on the Talk Python blog, introducing episode deep dives 00:25:39.340 --> 00:25:44.600 at Talk Python. And so if you go to a, any, I'm embarrassed to say it took me a while to understand 00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:49.820 the snorkel reference, but deep dive. Yeah. Well, you got to pick something from your font. Awesome 00:25:49.820 --> 00:25:54.880 icons. And I'd already used up some other stuff. So it's a snorkel as the icon to click the button. 00:25:54.880 --> 00:26:00.440 I like it. Yeah. So now for every episode that I publish, I'm putting together what's called a deep 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:07.160 dive. And actually it's ironic that the older ones are better because the more of them I've done, 00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:12.800 the better I've got at, you know, figure them out. Let's yeah. It's so weird. So here, let's see. 00:26:12.800 --> 00:26:17.520 Space science. Does this have a deep dive? It does. Okay. So space science, this one is, 00:26:17.620 --> 00:26:23.460 I interviewed Thomas Alban, Alban about his YouTube channel and his work. I think it was a European 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:28.080 space, yeah, or European space agency and so on. But instead of just having the show notes, now it has 00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:32.440 this thing called the deep dive, which comes into their background. It says, Hey, if you're new to 00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:37.480 Python, these are the types of things you want to like research a little bit to understand this topic 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:42.980 really well. Like this one's about visualization. So it talks about Matplotlib and pandas and spicy pie 00:26:42.980 --> 00:26:48.380 and visvis. And then it goes into all the like the takeaways and links and documents and tools and 00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:53.720 excellent stuff to just make it way more useful. Right. Okay. So yeah, thanks. We might start doing 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.520 that here. I'm trying to decide because we're shown us are pretty close to this, but they're not exactly, 00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:02.520 we can play with it, but you know, we've looked at a little, right. It's a ton of work though. I don't 00:27:02.520 --> 00:27:07.420 have them all done. I'm back. I don't know. I'm back to like 2022 and I've got to go back to 2016. 00:27:07.420 --> 00:27:13.040 So there you go. But many of the new ones are done, which is awesome. So here's the thing that, 00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:17.820 here's the thing I'm going to close out the show with that I think is crazy. And I think people will 00:27:17.820 --> 00:27:22.840 enjoy. This is kind of a separate topic, but it just, that was a lead in because you'll see in a 00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:29.060 second why notebook LM. Have you played with notebook LM? No. So notebook LM is originally came out, 00:27:29.060 --> 00:27:34.380 it's from Google and it came out as a way to help people understand documents like researchers, 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:40.300 professors, and so on. So what you do is you give notebook LM a PDF or a couple of PDFs, 00:27:40.300 --> 00:27:44.680 and then you can ask it questions like, what are the, what are the researchers think about this? 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:48.920 And it's based on all of their thing, but the most insane thing, and this is what we're going to close 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.820 out the show with is you can push a button. Literally, you don't have to give it prompts 00:27:52.820 --> 00:27:57.060 or anything. You just push a button and say, create a talk show, like similar to what we're doing here, 00:27:57.060 --> 00:28:04.180 talk show, like podcast episode of this paper. It is so insane. So if I was researching, 00:28:04.180 --> 00:28:10.420 I don't know if I was researching something between FastAPI and Django and somebody written up a really 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:14.780 detailed report, I could upload that. And I could just say, Hey, I want to have a couple of people 00:28:14.780 --> 00:28:20.500 talk to me about the trade-offs and it brings in other world knowledge, right? It's not just the 00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:25.200 words in there. Like, it's kind of like ChatGPT in that it knows everything. And then it also just 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:31.340 talks about this and it is insane. So going back to what the heck with these deep dives, 00:28:31.340 --> 00:28:36.100 if you scroll down a little bit, there's a, listen to a conversation about our deep dives. 00:28:36.100 --> 00:28:41.780 So those of you watching just the live stream, I'm not going to play this here because it's 13 minutes 00:28:41.780 --> 00:28:46.640 and 54 seconds, but you can go to this link here and just click the play button if you want to hear it. 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:51.580 Okay. Okay. For everyone else, Brian, I'm going to put it as the closeout to the show. So there's 00:28:51.580 --> 00:28:56.600 nothing else, but I'm going to play this because it is an insane view into what is possible. So 00:28:56.600 --> 00:29:01.920 what I did is I took this deep dive conversation, blog posts, the deep dive blog posts, gave it to 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.900 notebook LM. And I said, I want to hear people talk about it. So I'm going to drop that in and people 00:29:05.900 --> 00:29:09.260 can hear about it now. I think your mind's going to be blown, but if you don't want to listen to it, 00:29:09.260 --> 00:29:10.640 you can just, you know, this is the end of the show. 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:15.360 That's funny because you sent this to me and I started listening and I totally thought you just 00:29:15.360 --> 00:29:18.800 like, like somebody else was doing a podcast about your deep dives. 00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:25.060 It's crazy if you haven't heard it and it has interruptions like, oh yeah. Uh huh. Or, 00:29:25.060 --> 00:29:30.940 you know, and it's, it's got that kind of artificial back and forth, but it's done in a really nice way. 00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:36.880 It's, it is, it's not just speech to text. It is something entirely on unworldly. It is weird. 00:29:36.880 --> 00:29:40.840 And I thought it'd be fun to close out the show just to, just to give people a weird glimpse into 00:29:40.840 --> 00:29:45.480 this world. And it'll talk about the deep dives if you care. Cool. All right. Well, with that later, 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:50.080 everyone later, you ever listened to a podcast and it's packed with like all this insightful info, 00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:53.540 but then like a week later, you're like, wait, what was that again? 00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.900 It's like trying to, I don't know, grasp smoke or something. Yeah, exactly. 00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:01.020 Try to remember those key takeaways. You're not alone. If you're like that. 00:30:01.020 --> 00:30:03.760 Not at all. A lot of us struggle with that kind of thing. 00:30:03.760 --> 00:30:08.340 Making podcast knowledge stick. So that's what we're going to deep dive into today. 00:30:08.340 --> 00:30:12.560 We're looking at what Talk Python is calling episode deep dives. 00:30:12.560 --> 00:30:13.180 Okay. 00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:16.920 This could be the solution for that podcast information overload. 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:21.940 Interesting. I'm intrigued by how Talk Python is, you know, going beyond just the audio. 00:30:22.060 --> 00:30:25.900 They're realizing that people consume information in different ways. 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:26.180 Right. 00:30:26.180 --> 00:30:28.140 And so they're providing tools to deal with that. 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:33.200 It's not about ditching the podcast. It's about having something to go along with it. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.520 Like imagine you're panning for gold, right? You're swirling the pan around and you see those 00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:38.940 little flecks of gold. Yeah. 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:44.460 A deep dive is like having a tool that magically extracts those golden nuggets. 00:30:44.460 --> 00:30:47.520 Saves you a ton of time and effort. 00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:50.600 I like that analogy. It definitely captures that essence of efficiency. 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:55.860 But how are these deep dives? Like, are they really that much different from just detailed 00:30:55.860 --> 00:30:56.460 show notes? 00:30:56.460 --> 00:31:02.300 Oh, that's a good question. Think of it like this. Typical show notes give you like the bullet 00:31:02.300 --> 00:31:02.700 points. 00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:03.040 Right. 00:31:03.040 --> 00:31:04.180 The bare minimum. 00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:04.600 Yeah. 00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:07.680 Deep dives are like, it's like getting the director's cut of the episode. 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:08.320 Oh. 00:31:08.320 --> 00:31:09.640 With all the behind the scenes insights. 00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:09.980 Interesting. 00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:11.040 Deleted scenes. 00:31:11.040 --> 00:31:11.420 Yeah. 00:31:11.420 --> 00:31:13.400 Bonus features. So you get guest backgrounds. 00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:19.120 Key quotes, code examples, links to resources, all that stuff. It's just a much richer experience. 00:31:19.120 --> 00:31:25.000 So all that richness, that must lead to a lot of practical benefits. I mean, let's be honest, 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:29.540 re-listening to a whole episode to find one specific thing, that can be a real time suck. 00:31:29.540 --> 00:31:30.540 Yeah, for sure. 00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:34.520 The deep dive, you can just quickly skim and locate what you need. 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:35.700 That's such a time saver. 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:36.100 Yeah. 00:31:36.100 --> 00:31:41.860 Doesn't this risk kind of discouraging people from actively listening during the podcast 00:31:41.860 --> 00:31:42.460 itself? 00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:42.720 Yeah. 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.200 Because they're like, oh, I don't really need to pay attention. 00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:45.600 Yeah. 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:47.700 There's going to be a summary waiting for me later. 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:54.700 That's a good point. That's a valid concern. But think of it like taking notes during a lecture. 00:31:54.700 --> 00:31:59.400 Taking notes doesn't replace listening, right? It just enhances it. 00:31:59.400 --> 00:31:59.680 Right. 00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:02.020 It forces you to engage more actively. 00:32:02.020 --> 00:32:02.740 Makes sense. 00:32:02.740 --> 00:32:05.000 Knowing you're creating that reference for later. 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:05.340 Yeah. 00:32:05.340 --> 00:32:10.500 Deep dives can serve a similar function. They can prompt more focused listening. 00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:16.480 Okay. Yeah, I see that. It's about being more intentional with how you absorb the information. 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:16.860 Yeah. 00:32:16.860 --> 00:32:21.680 So we've established that deep dives go beyond typical show notes, and they can actually improve 00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:26.720 how we engage with a podcast. But what about people who, you know, maybe they're visual learners 00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.440 or they just prefer reading? Can these deep dives cater to different learning styles? 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.040 Oh, absolutely. Podcasts are fantastic for auditory learners. 00:32:34.040 --> 00:32:34.400 Right. 00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.880 But not everybody learns the same way. Some people just, you know, they prefer reading. Some people 00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:40.680 have a hard time focusing solely on audio. 00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:41.640 Yeah, that's true. 00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:45.720 Deep dives give you that alternative pathway. It makes it accessible to more people. 00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:46.980 I like that. 00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:47.240 Yeah. 00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:51.860 So how are these deep dives structured? Is it just like a wall of text summarizing the whole 00:32:51.860 --> 00:32:52.100 thing? 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:57.880 Oh, no, no, no. Not at all. They're really well designed, very scannable, digestible. Each 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.360 one starts with what they call a guest spotlight section. 00:33:01.360 --> 00:33:01.740 Okay. 00:33:01.740 --> 00:33:06.860 It's like a mini biography of the guest. It gives you insight into their background, their expertise. 00:33:06.860 --> 00:33:07.500 Yeah. 00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:11.400 That adds context to their perspective. So you're not just hearing opinions, you're understanding 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:12.360 where they're coming from. 00:33:12.360 --> 00:33:15.080 I like that. It's like getting to peek behind the curtain a little bit. 00:33:15.080 --> 00:33:15.400 Yeah. 00:33:15.540 --> 00:33:19.120 So we've got the guest spotlight setting the stage. What comes after that? 00:33:19.120 --> 00:33:24.700 So then the content is broken up. It follows the flow of the conversation. They've got clear 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:28.600 headings and subheadings, you know, guiding you through the topics. And of course, it's 00:33:28.600 --> 00:33:32.300 got all the links to libraries, code examples, resources, all that. 00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:37.920 So it's really structured in a way that respects your time, lets you prioritize the information 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.080 that matters most to you. I'm still a little skeptical, though. Can we look at a specific 00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:44.400 example to see how it all plays out? 00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:49.600 Absolutely. Let's look at the deep dive for the episode, secure coding for Python with 00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:50.360 She Hacks Purple. 00:33:50.360 --> 00:33:55.540 Okay. Sounds intriguing. This episode was all about threat modeling for Python developers, 00:33:55.540 --> 00:33:55.800 right? 00:33:55.800 --> 00:33:59.900 Exactly. And even if you haven't listened to the whole episode, the deep dive gives you 00:33:59.900 --> 00:34:05.600 a ton of insight. It starts with a background on Tanya Janca. She's the guest, also known 00:34:05.600 --> 00:34:10.140 as She Hacks Purple. It highlights her journey, you know, from software developer to penetration 00:34:10.140 --> 00:34:13.900 tester, and then how she eventually landed in application security. 00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:19.060 So you get a sense of her expertise and how her experience informs her view on secure 00:34:19.060 --> 00:34:21.400 coding. But why She Hacks Purple? 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:27.140 The deep dive explains that, too. It comes from her role blending offensive and defensive security, 00:34:27.140 --> 00:34:29.680 which is often called like purple teaming. 00:34:29.680 --> 00:34:33.740 Ah, okay. Makes sense. So now we're starting to understand who we're dealing with. But let's 00:34:33.740 --> 00:34:38.260 go beyond the introduction. What were some of the key takeaways from the actual secure coding 00:34:38.260 --> 00:34:38.760 discussion? 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:45.040 Well, one central concept was threat modeling, which they described as like a structured brainstorming 00:34:45.040 --> 00:34:50.900 session where the developers, a security person, and a product owner all come together to, as Tanya 00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:57.920 put it, brainstorm evil. They ask four key questions. Based on the work of Adam Shostak, who's, you know, 00:34:57.960 --> 00:34:59.300 kind of a big name in security. 00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:02.780 Hold on. Four questions to brainstorm evil. I like that. What are they? 00:35:02.780 --> 00:35:05.400 Well, the first one is, what are we building? 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:05.800 Okay. 00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:11.380 That involves sketching out an architectural diagram to understand the components of the system. 00:35:11.380 --> 00:35:13.840 And then it's what can go wrong. 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:14.580 Oh, okay. 00:35:14.740 --> 00:35:19.780 And that's where they put on their black hats and brainstorm potential risks and vulnerabilities. 00:35:19.780 --> 00:35:22.140 Okay. So far, so good. What about the next two? 00:35:22.140 --> 00:35:25.220 The third question is, what are we going to do about it? 00:35:25.220 --> 00:35:25.680 Makes sense. 00:35:25.680 --> 00:35:30.900 And that's where they shift gears and start discussing mitigation strategies. And then the final question 00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:32.920 is, did we do a good job? 00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:33.300 Okay. 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:37.600 That involves validating the process, making sure those mitigations are actually effective. 00:35:37.600 --> 00:35:42.040 So it's a comprehensive process that goes beyond just identifying threats. It's about 00:35:42.040 --> 00:35:45.720 proactively addressing them. Are we getting a little too deep into the weeds here though? 00:35:45.720 --> 00:35:49.140 Yeah, you're right. We are getting a little ahead of ourselves. The point is, 00:35:49.140 --> 00:35:54.880 the deep dive breaks this concept down in a really clear and concise way, 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:59.640 even if you're not familiar with threat modeling at all. And it does this for all the key topics from 00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:00.080 the episode. 00:36:00.080 --> 00:36:03.440 Okay. I see the value there. It's like having a condensed version of the conversation. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:03.800 Yeah. 00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:07.000 Highlighting the most important points. But let's pull back for a second. 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.900 Back to the deep dives themselves. We've seen how they're structured, 00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:14.680 the benefits they offer. We've even gotten a glimpse of what they actually look like. 00:36:14.680 --> 00:36:20.320 But what about availability? Are these deep dives available for every single Talk Python episode? 00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:24.780 That's where it gets interesting. They are available for all Talk Python episodes from 00:36:24.780 --> 00:36:28.900 number 440 onwards, which is November 30th, 2023. 00:36:28.900 --> 00:36:31.260 Oh, okay. So fairly recent episodes are covered. 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:31.500 Yeah. 00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:33.200 What about the older ones? Are they just out of luck? 00:36:33.200 --> 00:36:37.840 No, no, no. Not at all. Michael Kennedy and the Talk Python team are actually working on 00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:39.760 updating older episodes with deep dives. 00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:40.340 That's great. 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:42.980 It's a big job. But they're steadily making progress. 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:48.880 What if there's a specific older episode that I really want to deep dive for? Can I do anything 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:49.380 about that? 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:52.080 You absolutely can. Michael is really receptive to feedback. 00:36:52.080 --> 00:36:52.620 Okay. 00:36:52.620 --> 00:36:56.280 So if there's an episode you really want, you can reach out to him directly through his website, 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:57.760 himkennedy.codes. 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:02.520 So it's kind of a community effort then. Listeners can help decide which episodes get the deep dive 00:37:02.520 --> 00:37:07.120 treatment sooner. I like that. But some people might argue that, you know, just reading a summary 00:37:07.120 --> 00:37:12.020 isn't really enough, especially for these, you know, complex technical topics. What are your 00:37:12.020 --> 00:37:12.520 thoughts on that? 00:37:12.660 --> 00:37:17.540 I mean, that's fair. Deep dives aren't meant to replace listening to the episode. They're designed 00:37:17.540 --> 00:37:24.140 to work together. Think of it like this. You watch a fascinating documentary. You're captivated. You 00:37:24.140 --> 00:37:28.100 love it. But later on, some of the details get a little fuzzy. 00:37:28.100 --> 00:37:29.400 Yeah, that happened. 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:33.260 Would you rather struggle to remember or have a nice, concise recap? 00:37:33.260 --> 00:37:34.840 Oh, a recap is nice. 00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:41.320 Yeah, to refresh your memory. Deep dives provide that extra layer. They help solidify that knowledge. 00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:45.700 Yeah, it's like having a study guide for your favorite podcasts. You get the big picture from 00:37:45.700 --> 00:37:50.960 listening, and then the deep dive helps you focus on the important details. Let's zoom out for a second. 00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:58.380 Away from Talk Python, what do you think this trend towards more structured and interactive podcast 00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:03.720 content? What do you think it says about how we're consuming information these days? 00:38:03.720 --> 00:38:07.740 It's really fascinating, isn't it? We're moving beyond passive consumption. 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:08.340 For sure. 00:38:08.340 --> 00:38:12.140 People are demanding more. They want to engage with the content. 00:38:12.140 --> 00:38:12.540 Right. 00:38:12.540 --> 00:38:17.520 Dissect it, make it their own. Podcasts are evolving from just entertainment. 00:38:17.520 --> 00:38:17.940 Yeah. 00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:21.200 To really powerful learning platforms. 00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:25.220 I like that. The lines are blurring between education and entertainment, which I think is really 00:38:25.220 --> 00:38:31.700 exciting. But are we risking losing something in this shift, you know, by focusing on efficiency 00:38:31.700 --> 00:38:35.880 and structure? Could it make podcasts feel less? Less human? 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:41.080 Oh, that is a really thoughtful question. We definitely need to retain that human element, 00:38:41.080 --> 00:38:45.560 that personal connection. That's what draws people to podcasts in the first place. The host's voice, 00:38:45.560 --> 00:38:52.060 you know, the curiosity in their questions, those unscripted moments. All of that is essential. 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:56.600 It's that personal touch that makes you feel like you're part of a conversation, not just listening 00:38:56.600 --> 00:39:01.960 to a lecture. Can these structured summaries, like deep dives, can they go exist with that human 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:02.280 element? 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:05.260 I think they can. And they might even enhance it. 00:39:05.260 --> 00:39:05.900 Oh, interesting. 00:39:05.900 --> 00:39:11.760 By providing the tools to understand and retain the information, it deepens their connection to the 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:13.360 content and to the creators. 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:18.720 So instead of replacing the human element, it's more about creating a richer experience. 00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:19.360 Exactly. 00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.340 That caters to different learning styles. 00:39:21.340 --> 00:39:25.620 It's about empowering the listeners to engage on their own terms. 00:39:25.620 --> 00:39:26.140 I like that. 00:39:26.140 --> 00:39:32.140 In a way that resonates with them. And that, in turn, creates a more vibrant and engaged community 00:39:32.140 --> 00:39:33.040 around the podcast. 00:39:33.040 --> 00:39:39.260 Okay, I'm seeing deep dives in a whole new light. It's not just about summarizing. It's about fostering 00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:44.280 deeper engagement, making information more accessible, and ultimately empowering listeners 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:46.680 to get more out of their podcast experience. 00:39:46.680 --> 00:39:51.600 It's recognizing that learning is a journey. And podcasts are an incredible vehicle for that 00:39:51.600 --> 00:39:57.220 journey. But like any journey, having the right tools and resources makes all the difference. 00:39:57.220 --> 00:40:03.460 So if these deep dives are the tools, what kind of impact can they have on the journey itself? 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:07.180 What does this mean for the future of podcasts as a learning medium? 00:40:07.180 --> 00:40:09.660 It feels like we're on the cusp of something big. 00:40:09.660 --> 00:40:13.860 Yeah, podcasts have definitely transformed how we listen to things. 00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:19.220 For sure. But now it's like we're moving beyond just listening to actually learning from podcasts. 00:40:19.220 --> 00:40:19.560 Yeah. 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:25.040 Like podcasts in the future, where they all come with these detailed summaries and maybe 00:40:25.040 --> 00:40:27.880 interactive exercises, even community forums. 00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:28.320 Whoa. 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.040 All built right in. 00:40:29.040 --> 00:40:32.720 That would be pretty cool. It would really make knowledge accessible to everybody. 00:40:32.720 --> 00:40:36.880 Exactly. It's like no longer would these valuable insights be trapped in an audio stream, 00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:41.820 lost forever. As soon as the episode ends, they'd be readily available, searchable. You could 00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:42.620 share them easily. 00:40:42.620 --> 00:40:44.240 And it would really help people learn, too. 00:40:44.240 --> 00:40:50.560 Oh, yeah, for sure. What about the impact on the creators, the podcasters themselves? 00:40:50.560 --> 00:40:55.920 Oh, that's a great point. This kind of engagement, you know, it could really strengthen the bond 00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.580 between podcasters and their audience. 00:40:58.580 --> 00:41:00.040 It's like building a community. 00:41:00.040 --> 00:41:00.600 Yeah. 00:41:00.600 --> 00:41:01.960 Instead of just having a bunch of listeners. 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:05.140 Exactly. It could take podcasting to a whole new level. 00:41:05.140 --> 00:41:06.600 This is really eye-opening. 00:41:06.600 --> 00:41:06.860 Yeah. 00:41:06.860 --> 00:41:12.700 What started as a deep dive into episode deep dives has turned into this, like, exploration 00:41:12.700 --> 00:41:14.240 of the future of podcasts. 00:41:14.240 --> 00:41:14.620 Yeah. 00:41:14.620 --> 00:41:15.700 And I'm excited about it. 00:41:15.700 --> 00:41:18.020 Me, too. It's clear that podcasting is still young. 00:41:18.020 --> 00:41:19.380 It's got so much potential. 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:23.120 And innovations like deep dives are just the beginning. 00:41:23.120 --> 00:41:24.580 So if you're listening to this. 00:41:24.580 --> 00:41:24.920 Yeah. 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:31.040 And you want to see how deep dives work, I really encourage you to check out talkpython.fm 00:41:31.040 --> 00:41:32.660 and explore for yourself. 00:41:32.660 --> 00:41:33.100 Yeah. 00:41:33.100 --> 00:41:36.080 You might be surprised at how much more you get out of your podcasts. 00:41:36.080 --> 00:41:41.680 It could even inspire you to think about how you learn and connect with information in new ways. 00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:43.480 It's all about embracing this evolution. 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:44.200 Absolutely. 00:41:44.200 --> 00:41:46.620 How we learn, how we connect with information. 00:41:46.620 --> 00:41:50.860 Because knowledge is most powerful when we share it, when we explore it. 00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:51.040 Yeah. 00:41:51.040 --> 00:41:52.200 And when we put it into action. 00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:56.060 So on that note, we'll wrap up this deep dive. 00:41:56.060 --> 00:41:58.380 Hopefully this has given you some new ideas. 00:41:58.380 --> 00:41:58.720 Yeah. 00:41:58.720 --> 00:42:02.580 And inspired you to look at the world of podcasts with a fresh perspective. 00:42:02.580 --> 00:42:03.660 Happy listening. 00:42:03.660 --> 00:42:05.020 I think we are, yeah. 00:42:05.020 --> 00:42:06.460 Podcasts have come a long way. 00:42:06.460 --> 00:42:07.120 They really have. 00:42:07.120 --> 00:42:11.120 But now it's like we're talking about not just passive listening anymore. 00:42:11.120 --> 00:42:12.100 It's active learning. 00:42:12.100 --> 00:42:12.540 Right. 00:42:12.540 --> 00:42:13.060 Right. 00:42:13.060 --> 00:42:13.980 It's exciting. 00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:14.400 Yeah. 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:20.700 And think about the impact this could have on, you know, on creators, on podcasters. 00:42:20.700 --> 00:42:21.380 Oh, yeah. 00:42:21.380 --> 00:42:22.260 For sure. 00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:29.580 This deeper level of engagement, I think it could lead to like a much stronger connection between the people making the podcasts. 00:42:29.580 --> 00:42:29.900 Yeah. 00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:30.960 And the people listening. 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:31.280 Yeah. 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:34.780 It's like you're building a community, not just broadcasting to an audience. 00:42:34.780 --> 00:42:35.440 Exactly. 00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:35.860 Yeah. 00:42:35.860 --> 00:42:40.160 It's turning podcasting into this collaborative learning experience. 00:42:40.160 --> 00:42:40.960 I love that. 00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:42.480 This has been really eye-opening. 00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:45.360 I mean, we started by diving into episode deep dives. 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:45.660 Yeah. 00:42:45.660 --> 00:42:49.140 But it's turned into this whole exploration of the future of podcasts. 00:42:49.140 --> 00:42:49.980 It has. 00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:51.600 And I'm feeling pretty optimistic about it. 00:42:51.600 --> 00:42:51.860 I do. 00:42:51.860 --> 00:42:55.080 It's clear that podcasting is still in its early stages. 00:42:55.080 --> 00:42:56.600 And there's so much potential. 00:42:56.600 --> 00:43:00.200 And I think things like deep dives are just paving the way. 00:43:00.200 --> 00:43:01.080 They're leading the charge. 00:43:01.080 --> 00:43:07.640 So to all our listeners out there, if you want to see how deep dives work and practice, head over to talkpython.fm. 00:43:07.640 --> 00:43:08.000 Yeah. 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:09.020 Explore a little bit. 00:43:09.020 --> 00:43:12.900 You might be surprised at how much more you can get out of your podcast listening. 00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:22.720 It might even inspire you to think about how you can incorporate some of these ideas into your own work or learning or whatever you're doing. 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:23.360 Yeah, for sure. 00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:28.420 It's all about embracing this evolution and how we learn, how we connect with information. 00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:29.160 Exactly. 00:43:29.160 --> 00:43:32.160 And on that note, we'll wrap up this deep dive. 00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:33.000 We hope you enjoyed it. 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:38.760 We hope it gave you some new ideas and inspired you to explore the world of podcasts with a fresh perspective. 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:39.420 Absolutely. 00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:40.920 Happy listening, everyone.