WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:04.480 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.900 --> 00:00:10.320 This is episode 437, I can't believe that, recorded June 23rd, 2025. 00:00:11.030 --> 00:00:11.900 And I am Brian Okken. 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:12.360 And 00:00:12.360 --> 00:00:12.960 I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:19.020 And this episode is sponsored by Posit, so check out that section later in the episode. 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:20.340 We really appreciate it. 00:00:20.470 --> 00:00:26.320 If you'd like to send us items or comment on the show, you can reach all of us. 00:00:26.380 --> 00:00:55.600 the links to our socials on blue sky and mastodon are in the show notes so check those out and if you'd like to sometime join us live or at least watch the show even later we since they're all they're all up later you can head over to pythonbytes.fm/live and find out where all the videos are or schedule to watch us we or hang out with us we um we do watch the chat and sometimes take questions from there or extra comments. 00:00:56.160 --> 00:00:59.420 And that is Mondays at 10 a.m. usually, 10 a.m. Pacific time. 00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:04.920 Also, finally, please go over to pythonbytes.fm and sign up for the newsletter. 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:13.000 We're putting a lot of work into this to try to make this a useful resource for you, not just the links to the topics, but some of the background information. 00:01:14.360 --> 00:01:16.600 And it's just more than just the show notes. 00:01:16.820 --> 00:01:18.020 So check it out. 00:01:19.500 --> 00:01:20.900 They won't know until they subscribe, Ryan. 00:01:21.240 --> 00:01:23.320 Yeah, you just, I mean, you can always delete it. 00:01:23.410 --> 00:01:28.260 Like, we don't sell your name or anything or spam you, so might as well sign up and try it. 00:01:28.410 --> 00:01:33.420 Speaking of, I guess, Python stuff, Michael, do you want to kick us off with the first topic? 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:37.840 I have a meta topic, a topic of topics, if you will. 00:01:38.240 --> 00:01:46.660 The Python Language Summit was held at PyCon this year, back in May, I guess May 14th, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 00:01:47.140 --> 00:01:49.180 However, why are we talking about this now? 00:01:49.560 --> 00:02:05.160 Because Seth Michael Larson, who is the, I don't know his title exam, I messed it up, sorry Seth, security developer in residence at the PSF for Python, was the official note taker, blogger, eyes of the community sort of thing. 00:02:05.420 --> 00:02:18.460 And they just, they just published on June 12th, the Python Language Summit 2025 write-up, which is a write-up of the whole event and the 10 or so talks that were given there. 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:25.380 So you get some really interesting looks into where the core developers are focusing, what they're considering for the future. 00:02:25.540 --> 00:02:30.620 Most of this stuff is forward-looking, or at least if it's not 100% forward-looking, it's like, hey, we should be doing this. 00:02:30.720 --> 00:02:33.300 It's talking about problems that need to be solved in the future, you know? 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:38.300 So I actually interviewed Seth over at Talk Python. 00:02:38.540 --> 00:02:40.280 This will be out in a couple of weeks. 00:02:40.420 --> 00:02:45.120 The live stream, like ours, is also available here at the links on Talk Python. 00:02:45.320 --> 00:02:47.240 So people can't wait for the edited version. 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:48.300 they can check that out. 00:02:49.300 --> 00:02:56.040 But just to give you a sense of what was out there, some of the topics included how do we make breaking changes less painful? 00:02:56.460 --> 00:03:04.360 That was Itamar Oren from Meta talked about like when you move from say Python 3.11 to 3.13 or something like that, like what broke? 00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:19.680 You know, when you have millions of lines of Python like Meta does and that's executing at scale, you know, maybe minor, things that might seem minor inconsequential to the rest of us, like all of a sudden, that 5% performance change here made a big difference one way or the other, like that kind of stuff, right? 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.300 And it talks about non-obvious problems. 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:34.580 Like, for example, if you want to learn about something that was taken out, like if you think there's a problem because a part of a standard library was removed, well, the documentation was also removed. 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:38.860 So it's like, how do you find the thing that was documented, but it's no longer there? 00:03:39.480 --> 00:03:46.680 You can go back in history to the different versions of Python docs, but the default is latest, which no longer, you know, which are basically 404s, which is weird. 00:03:47.480 --> 00:03:48.360 So like that kind of stuff, right? 00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:52.800 That's a decent idea just to like leave it in for versions. 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:55.140 Just make the 00:03:55.140 --> 00:03:57.100 background like red or yellow or something. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.120 Go, this thing is dead. 00:03:58.380 --> 00:03:59.920 If you're viewing it, stop viewing it. 00:04:00.140 --> 00:04:00.780 It's going to hurt your eyes. 00:04:03.220 --> 00:04:04.820 The next, there was a whole series. 00:04:04.880 --> 00:04:19.440 I would say a third of this entire conversation was on async, IO, threading, concurrency, crazy ideas about like how do we deal with, What can we do to make it obvious at runtime that you're running into threading problems? 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:26.780 Because just last week, Brian, you talked about this, the experimental tag came off of the free-threaded Python. 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.280 So now it's really free-threaded. 00:04:28.400 --> 00:04:29.440 It's truly free. 00:04:29.740 --> 00:04:31.940 But there's a lot of like, well, what are the consequences of that? 00:04:31.940 --> 00:04:32.780 And how do we build for that? 00:04:32.780 --> 00:04:34.200 And what can we do to make this easier? 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:35.280 And I'll put that in quotes. 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:40.060 So there was an uncontentious talk about contention by Mark Shannon, which is like concurrency. 00:04:40.140 --> 00:04:45.080 What can we do to make things more immutable so that we can share them more easily and so on? 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:47.340 There's the state of free-threaded Python by Matt Page. 00:04:47.700 --> 00:04:51.700 Fearless concurrency by three folks, Matthew, Tobias, and FreeJoff. 00:04:51.980 --> 00:04:54.020 Anything else on threading? 00:04:54.940 --> 00:04:55.360 Sort of. 00:04:55.690 --> 00:04:56.040 Not really. 00:04:56.530 --> 00:04:58.340 But, you know, out of 10 talks, that's quite a bit. 00:04:58.540 --> 00:04:58.680 There. 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:01.180 There was some docs updates by Marietta. 00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:03.120 The challenges of the steering council. 00:05:03.310 --> 00:05:07.640 Like, basically, how has it been going the last couple of years now that we have a steering council and not a BDFL? 00:05:08.080 --> 00:05:08.920 And that was by Eric Snow. 00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:46.600 it's pretty interesting like hey good news things are still working not great news stuff led by a committee of volunteers goes slower than one person just goes sounds good surprise um some packaging stuff by barry warsaw and pradium get them python on mobile by russell keith mcgee so this is interesting in that peps 730 and 738 have been completed and russell went in front of all the core devs said after many years this year i can say that python on mobile is there how about that Now, that doesn't mean all the tooling, front-end frameworks, UI frameworks, all that kind of stuff are there for building Python apps. 00:05:46.940 --> 00:05:59.660 But CPython is now a tier three supported platform, which means the core developers as part of the continuous integration, everything of Python itself, make sure that it also builds on iOS and Android. 00:06:00.020 --> 00:06:00.480 That's what that means. 00:06:00.760 --> 00:06:01.240 Still good news. 00:06:01.320 --> 00:06:02.540 Yeah, I'm 00:06:02.540 --> 00:06:02.960 looking 00:06:02.960 --> 00:06:11.000 forward to the time where, I mean, I know that everybody is, but it'd be cool if I could just open up VS Code or PyCharm and write an iPhone app. 00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:13.600 I would probably practice my backflip, 00:06:14.180 --> 00:06:15.720 see if I could do a backflip if that happened. 00:06:15.770 --> 00:06:16.840 Like, that would be so awesome. 00:06:17.340 --> 00:06:17.820 It would be so 00:06:17.820 --> 00:06:18.140 good. 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.180 Yeah, it would be so good. 00:06:21.280 --> 00:06:22.060 That and 00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:25.040 JavaScript frontend, like Python, PyScript frontends. 00:06:25.780 --> 00:06:27.000 Let's go here for both of them. 00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:38.660 Speaking of which, there was an update on Pyodide and the JavaScript FFI, the language bindings that allow PyScript or Pyodide, actually specifically Pyodide, to talk to the JavaScript stuff. 00:06:38.660 --> 00:06:46.200 So from Python front-end stuff, you can actually interact with JavaScript directly rather than indirectly, a little bit more clearly. 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:59.120 And most importantly, there's slight variations in how you do this in MicroPython and Pyodide, which means you can't use interoperable code between the two in Pyodide, PyScript world, which is weird. 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.460 And this is about trying to solve that amongst other things. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:05.080 And then finally, what do core developers want from Rust? 00:07:05.400 --> 00:07:07.460 Do people want Rust? Do they not want Rust? 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:21.780 And if you're looking for native, probably the biggest piece of news here is that our best estimate is somewhere between a quarter and a third of all native code being uploaded to PyPI for new projects is based on Rust. 00:07:21.940 --> 00:07:22.460 That's pretty big. 00:07:22.700 --> 00:07:23.460 It is pretty big. 00:07:23.840 --> 00:07:23.960 Yeah. 00:07:24.760 --> 00:07:24.920 Yeah. 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:31.480 All right. So I think either check out the blog post or listen to the episode I did with Seth. 00:07:31.840 --> 00:07:33.300 This is good stuff to track. 00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:34.240 Okay. Nice. 00:07:36.620 --> 00:08:20.160 All right. Well, I'm going to change gears completely and just talk about, zoom in on one thing about Python, and that is Python properties. So Will McCoogan wrote an article called Fixing Python Properties. And I just thought it was an interesting take on how to get around some type checking quirks. So he starts off with talking about basically the properties are awesome and the type checkers are fine with properties. However, the type of a property is taken from the getter method. And I guess that makes sense, but there really are two, there's getter and setter. So if those types don't match, your type checker is not going to like it. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:09:56.300 And so he walks through a, and I'm like, well, why, why would you want different types for your getter and setter? And he walks through a padding dimension example, which is, I think, I mean, he's doing textual so a decent um he's an example of he wanted to be able to just have somebody be able to say hey um for my padding if there's there's really four values but kind of like with css if you provide one value it's applied i don't remember all the rules it's applied everywhere if you if you apply to set two paddings it'll apply to like the distributes them appropriately just like css and so you can do uh basically one value two values or just an integer a tuple events of just two values or you can provide four um and all of this should just work and it does with python but you can make it work with like some you know with your code checking for all of those things but with type checkers it'll say you're doing something wrong and um he he said we i could make it like type check better but just like kind of destroy the user experience but instead he um he provides instead of doing properties so he just like rips out that the idea of the property um he's in the first example he's using the property the decorator um but he uses uh what he calls a descriptor which is i don't know if this is a real thing like he talks about it as if it's like a programming construct, but I'm not familiar with it. 00:09:56.520 --> 00:09:56.620 Anyway. 00:09:56.900 --> 00:10:02.000 Yeah, I think it's part of Python, like an advanced git adder, set adder sort of thing. 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.160 It's a class that has, it's just a class that defines both a get and a set method. 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.760 So that's your descriptor class. 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.260 And he uses that instead of a 00:10:14.260 --> 00:10:14.820 property. 00:10:15.140 --> 00:10:22.780 And that is all it takes to be able to make it work without PyPI or without type checkers freaking out. 00:10:22.880 --> 00:10:23.980 So that's just it. 00:10:24.880 --> 00:10:25.580 Oh, an update. 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.000 Somebody, Peter, pointed out an issue. 00:10:29.780 --> 00:10:30.900 Okay, well, I haven't read that part. 00:10:31.220 --> 00:10:34.040 But you know one of the problems with typing 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:44.960 all over the place, and his thing says, look, it might be fine in my Pi, but then in VS Code, the Pi Lance validator understands this differently and gives you an error. 00:10:45.380 --> 00:10:52.860 One of the things that drives me utterly crazy is, like, you've got these different tooling, And they all have a slight variation of like, that's fine. 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:54.440 Or like, actually, no, that's not fine. 00:10:55.180 --> 00:11:03.280 And we've got Ty and you've mentioned Pyrefly coming as well, which are going to be other ones probably have slightly different defaults. 00:11:03.520 --> 00:11:06.260 And so when you say I fixed it, like what did you fix it for? 00:11:06.740 --> 00:11:07.100 Exactly. 00:11:07.100 --> 00:11:07.500 Did you fix it for 00:11:07.500 --> 00:11:08.040 all of them? 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:09.580 Did you fix it for your editor? 00:11:09.780 --> 00:11:11.020 Did you fix it for this CI? 00:11:11.400 --> 00:11:14.360 Like there's a lot of variations and it drives me crazy. 00:11:14.680 --> 00:11:18.740 And it's especially, so I just have like a couple of small packages that I maintain. 00:11:19.300 --> 00:11:25.660 And I have like, you know, like PyTouchCheck is now type, has type hints around it. 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:27.000 And that's helpful. 00:11:27.380 --> 00:11:29.560 But it's a little bit of a quirky thing. 00:11:30.800 --> 00:11:36.140 And it doesn't, it works fine on mypy, but it doesn't work on some of the others. 00:11:36.660 --> 00:11:37.480 And I've had to write or 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:37.720 something. 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:39.120 Yeah, about that. 00:11:39.260 --> 00:11:40.880 I'm like, well, use mypy. 00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:41.240 I don't know. 00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:45.740 You can't really, if it's a dependent library, you really want to use that for everything. 00:11:46.400 --> 00:11:46.900 Yeah, exactly. 00:11:47.740 --> 00:11:47.940 It 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:48.900 is a mess. 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:50.660 I've had some stuff like that. 00:11:50.660 --> 00:11:52.360 It's like, this thing doesn't work right on PyRite. 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:54.660 Like, okay, help me understand why I care about that. 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:58.960 But they're like, you know, if I use it in this setup, I'm going to just get like errors. 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:01.260 And it wasn't something super mild. 00:12:01.340 --> 00:12:04.080 It was for one of my web things. 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:06.560 And basically the library was used as a decorator. 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:11.460 So anything they decorate now gets like invalidated in terms of its type. 00:12:11.760 --> 00:12:11.900 I 00:12:11.900 --> 00:12:19.460 wonder if that's something now that I probably, for libraries, we should be testing against multiple type checkers, and that's just one. 00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:19.960 Probably. 00:12:20.280 --> 00:12:21.560 It's super annoying, but yeah, probably. 00:12:22.700 --> 00:12:36.200 And then here's the most annoying part of it was, though I think it was Pyrite, is like Pyrite was giving errors that now the Flask view method doesn't match the type or something, but Flask was fine with it. 00:12:37.339 --> 00:12:41.460 And nobody ever, ever, ever directly calls those functions. 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:42.860 Only Flask calls it. 00:12:43.070 --> 00:12:44.320 And so like, here's some functions. 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:45.540 Nobody calls them. 00:12:45.860 --> 00:12:46.720 It's affecting nobody. 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.320 because they don't, no one even sees the type information. 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:51.040 Flask sees it. Flask is fine. 00:12:51.160 --> 00:12:58.380 But I still have to like do really complicated typing information to get the type checkers to stop giving them more. 00:12:58.450 --> 00:12:59.140 Like, are you serious? 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.220 It's not getting easier because we're getting more type checkers. 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:08.720 Well, I thought all this was supposed to just be kind of invisible and we just get benefit and no cost. 00:13:09.680 --> 00:13:10.660 Until you get an issue about it. 00:13:10.880 --> 00:13:13.340 Now, I appreciate that people found the issue because I did fix it. 00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:18.480 but it was like a couple of hours of really complex type juggling. 00:13:19.020 --> 00:13:20.540 Oh, you're a nicer person than me. 00:13:21.220 --> 00:13:22.300 For something nobody called. 00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:23.180 Yeah, well. 00:13:23.400 --> 00:13:29.940 I did the classic, yeah, I don't use Pyrate, but, you know, I'd accept a pull request. 00:13:31.100 --> 00:13:31.340 Yeah, 00:13:31.520 --> 00:13:31.580 exactly. 00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:49.640 One other thing, like, so rolling back just a tiny bit, like properties, if I had to say, like, somebody said, Michael, what is the clumsiest, most non-intuitive, less than ideal, less readable or just bad part of Python, the language? 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:50.460 Properties. 00:13:50.880 --> 00:13:51.940 It's so bad. 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:57.920 There, I could have like in separate files, maybe it made me as separate parts of files. 00:13:57.970 --> 00:14:00.720 I could say over here is a getter and then somewhere else there's some weird setter. 00:14:00.730 --> 00:14:08.120 And like, why does the setter dot something like just the at setter dot variable name of a thing I've defined before? 00:14:08.500 --> 00:14:12.920 It's just so chunky and weird and the typing is a mess. 00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:18.240 If you look at the way C# does this, probably other languages as well, it is so nice. 00:14:18.380 --> 00:14:22.100 You just public property name, you have a getter and you have a setter right in there. 00:14:22.800 --> 00:14:26.960 I know that you could create separate classes for descriptors like Will was talking about. 00:14:27.140 --> 00:14:33.060 I think there might be maybe different performance profiles for those property versus a descriptor. 00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:36.680 But I would really like to see Python clean up. 00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:38.140 It doesn't have to be what C# does. 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:45.280 but something where like they go together, they're obvious, you're not defining it twice, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It'd be nice. Wouldn't it be nice, Brian? 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.800 Wouldn't it be nice? 00:14:47.940 --> 00:15:00.000 You know what is nice though? Our sponsor this week, Posit, super excited. Let me tell you about what they're offering everyone. So this episode is brought to you by the nice folks at Posit. 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:09.500 So Posit, originally they came out of the R space, right? They made R studio and they made some other things, but they really have been putting a lot of effort into Python these days, right? 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:14.780 They've created Posit Connect, awesome way to run and host your data science stuff. 00:15:15.300 --> 00:15:23.020 They made Shiny for Python, which is like a reactive notebook, like Marimo or a little bit like cheaper notebooks and stuff. 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:24.020 So they're doing awesome stuff. 00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:26.840 So I'm really, really happy to have them sponsoring the show. 00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:31.120 Today, I want to focus on data science workloads and how to host them. 00:15:31.540 --> 00:15:37.700 So you have dashboards, reports, plots, interactive web apps, all the way to custom Flask or Django apps. 00:15:37.970 --> 00:15:40.040 They have a service called Posit Connect. 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:44.540 And Posit Connect makes it easy for data scientists to share work they built with Python. 00:15:45.020 --> 00:15:51.920 So if you've got a Streamlit app, dashboard, Plotly, interactive plots, FastAPI, Quarto, just connect it to there. 00:15:52.460 --> 00:15:58.740 And their service will maintain it and connect automatically, hosts it, updates it for you, and so on. 00:15:58.920 --> 00:16:01.980 So you can even have it update reports on a schedule. 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:11.380 So if you host a dashboard, you can have it rerun the data science stuff that computes the graphs and does the summaries like on a cron job sort of thing on a schedule. 00:16:11.660 --> 00:16:15.860 So no reason to explain to stakeholders why the dashboard or plot stopped updating last week. 00:16:16.140 --> 00:16:18.140 Just set it up, pause it, connect, got it going. 00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:25.220 So you can focus on your data science work and leverage your skill set while connect makes you look good, keeping your code running and private. 00:16:25.500 --> 00:16:31.460 With Connect, you get a private URL on your Connect server, ensuring that your asset is continuously available to your shareholders. 00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:34.660 You can control which users have access to that asset. 00:16:35.260 --> 00:16:38.600 And just let Connect handle all your DevOps for you. 00:16:38.970 --> 00:16:39.800 You can share your work. 00:16:40.040 --> 00:16:40.780 Keep doing what you do best. 00:16:40.940 --> 00:16:46.080 So if you work on a data science team, you owe it to you and your org to check out Posit Connect. 00:16:46.540 --> 00:16:52.760 Just visit pythonbytes.fm/connect and get a three-month free trial and see if it's a good fit. 00:16:52.900 --> 00:16:54.500 That's pythonbytes.fm/connect. 00:16:54.820 --> 00:16:57.560 The link is in your podcast player show notes right at the top. 00:16:57.980 --> 00:17:01.120 Thank you for Deposit for supporting Byte on Bytes. 00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:02.040 Yes, thank you. 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.140 And a rewrite. 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:05.780 All right. 00:17:05.949 --> 00:17:11.180 Well, next I want to talk about some complexity in your code. 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:12.219 And Complexipy. 00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.699 Complexipy? 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:14.560 Complexipy. 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.240 It's C-O-M-P-L-E-X-I-P-Y. 00:17:18.120 --> 00:17:19.720 This is a project that's new to me. 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:24.079 And actually looking at the repo, it looks kind of new. 00:17:24.860 --> 00:17:26.800 it's modified in the last weeks. 00:17:27.560 --> 00:17:29.480 So I'm really kind of enjoying it. 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:30.760 So what is Complexify? 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:41.700 So it's an extremely fast Python, I'm quoting here, an extremely fast Python library to calculate the cognitive complexity of Python files. 00:17:42.020 --> 00:17:48.180 And it's written in Rust, just like you said, a lot of PyPI stuff going up that's written in Rust lately or written parts of it in Rust. 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:51.800 Looks like 45% Rust, 23 Python. 00:17:52.520 --> 00:17:59.400 Anyway, so this reminded me that I should be paying attention to complexity. 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:00.980 So I'm glad this came out. 00:18:01.360 --> 00:18:02.820 So what is cognitive complexity? 00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:07.140 Well, it's kind of like cyclomatic complexity. 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:08.900 Do you remember cyclomatic complexity? 00:18:09.300 --> 00:18:09.600 Kind of. 00:18:10.380 --> 00:18:13.600 I'm going to include a link to the Wikipedia page, but you can look. 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:16.680 So I remember it from Flake 8. 00:18:16.900 --> 00:18:26.420 So Flake 8 had cyclomatic complexities and using the McCabe, I don't know, the McCabe test around it. 00:18:26.560 --> 00:18:29.600 But it would just sort of, I never used McCabe directly. 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:31.040 I just used it with Flake 8. 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:36.840 And now actually I'm using it with Ruff, which is kind of cool. 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:47.500 I just recently realized this, that you can pass in the rule C901, and you can do a complexity check on with your rough tests. 00:18:47.980 --> 00:18:48.860 So that's super awesome. 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.980 And so this is kind of fun. 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:56.040 But what are we looking at for cognitive complexity? 00:18:56.340 --> 00:19:00.280 Well, there's a link within here of the white paper. 00:19:00.620 --> 00:19:04.560 There's a white paper, and you kind of have to – the white paper comes from Sonar Source. 00:19:04.860 --> 00:19:07.340 They do SonarCube, if anybody's familiar with that. 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:09.060 It's a static analysis stuff. 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:12.360 And I read the white paper and I skimmed it, really. 00:19:12.780 --> 00:19:32.000 But it's actually a really easy read, talking about how the idea around it is not just like giving you a number for your entire source code of how complex stuff is and where the problems are, but really looking at everything. 00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:37.120 So there's, you know, more loops, more structs, more everything. 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:42.760 It's really a little bit different take looking at really the maintainability. 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:54.700 So there's a discussion in the white paper talking about that cyclomatic complexity was intended to make it to measure how testable and maintainable. 00:19:54.910 --> 00:19:58.940 And the testable part comes from that the testability. 00:19:59.620 --> 00:20:02.360 Like if you have multiple branches, you have to test all the branches. 00:20:02.780 --> 00:20:05.040 So more branches means more tests. 00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:14.120 That it does well, but the authors of the white paper don't really believe that that it measures maintainability as well. 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.240 So this is another attempt. 00:20:15.800 --> 00:20:17.080 And I think it does pretty good. 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.140 And plus, it's super fast and the output is great. 00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:31.100 So I ran it on a couple of the, I ran both the rough version of the McCabe test and then this against my code, some of my code. 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:33.860 And it came up with the same hot spots. 00:20:34.940 --> 00:20:38.200 And so I'm going to look at what the output looks like. 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:43.080 I wish this was in color because it's in color when you're doing it on the command line. 00:20:43.420 --> 00:20:48.100 And the colors really help because it does like zero means like there's no problem here. 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:49.840 It's not complex code. 00:20:50.460 --> 00:21:00.900 And then the numbers go up and there's, I think there's levels that you can set, but it's, there's the defaults are fine of, you know, yellow and red for things that you really want to care about. 00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:06.740 And then by default, it lists, like you pointed at a directory and it'll list out everything. 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:12.600 You can just tell it to just, you can have it just list the problem parts too. 00:21:12.830 --> 00:21:14.960 But it is kind of nice to just see the whole thing. 00:21:15.050 --> 00:21:19.780 If you've got not too, too large of a project, if you have a huge project, definitely just look at the problem parts. 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:26.440 The reason why I'm really excited about this again, oh, it talks about the analysis here in the readme even. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:27.040 That's nice. 00:21:27.340 --> 00:21:29.660 And you can output it to a CSV file or whatever. 00:21:30.120 --> 00:21:35.600 But I just did it on the command line because why would I use this? 00:21:35.800 --> 00:21:41.080 Not just as a pass fail within CI, which is a good idea to do a pass fail in CI. 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:48.680 What I want to know is the areas of my code that probably might need refactored to be less complex. 00:21:49.080 --> 00:21:58.640 But if they're already as clean as they can be or they're that bit of code that you have that the person that wrote it is gone and you're not sure how to touch it. 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:07.860 Those are the areas to really throw some unit tests around or some subsystem tests around those areas are a good thing. 00:22:08.560 --> 00:22:11.240 Anyway, think about, remember complexity. 00:22:11.610 --> 00:22:18.680 And I like the idea of not just of thinking of cognitive or maintainability complexity. 00:22:19.060 --> 00:22:20.040 This is a really cool idea. 00:22:20.390 --> 00:22:20.800 I like it. 00:22:21.260 --> 00:22:23.320 I am an absolute junkie for this stuff. 00:22:23.620 --> 00:22:24.020 I love 00:22:24.020 --> 00:22:24.200 it 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:24.640 so much. 00:22:24.800 --> 00:22:26.360 So I'm glad you pointed out. 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:31.120 Christian out in the audience says, great, Radon is really slow. 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:35.120 So cognitive complexity is the last thing preventing me from dropping Flex 8. 00:22:35.320 --> 00:22:36.660 Superflake 8, pretty cool. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:46.500 And I used to, I mean, when I say used to, I'm talking like 25 years ago, used this tool called Code Rush, which was amazing. 00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:51.900 I've still not seen anything as great for an editor add-on as it did, even to this day. 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:52.700 So good. 00:22:53.140 --> 00:22:58.380 One of the things it did, though, is it had maintenance complexity, cyclomatic complexity, and I don't know if it had this 00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:58.920 cognitive, 00:22:59.460 --> 00:23:01.040 but it had like line count was an option. 00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:12.200 And next to every, in your editor, next to every function or type in like a class or something, it would have the, you could choose, like, do you want the maintenance complexity or the cyclomatic complexity? 00:23:12.340 --> 00:23:14.460 Just sort of ambiently by your 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:15.060 things. 00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:20.100 And you could be like, or you can run an analysis and say these are the seven that are like over some sort of threshold. 00:23:20.280 --> 00:23:23.900 Like I don't want it over 75 for my maintenance complexity, whatever that means. 00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:24.480 Yes. 00:23:24.810 --> 00:23:33.820 If people know about that, extensions like that for PyCharm and other editors, you know, shoot us a, put a comment on the YouTube channel, on the YouTube video 00:23:33.820 --> 00:23:36.360 or mention us somewhere, something like that. 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:40.060 I'll have to try it out because Complexify does have a VS Code extension. 00:23:40.460 --> 00:23:41.720 I don't know how it looks though. 00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.220 So we'll have to check it out. 00:23:43.280 --> 00:23:43.420 Yeah. 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.680 Does that just output it in the terminal? 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:45.100 Yeah. 00:23:45.120 --> 00:23:45.640 Or does it actually 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:46.860 overlay it like CodeLens? 00:23:47.060 --> 00:23:48.620 Yeah, it would be cool if it was an overlay. 00:23:51.060 --> 00:23:52.580 Pat is spreading fake news. 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.580 Pat Decker, the audience who's been on the show, says, Michael volunteers to create a VS Code extension, is what I just heard. 00:24:00.320 --> 00:24:01.780 We're going to edit that section out. 00:24:01.780 --> 00:24:03.060 We'll just move right along here. 00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:03.980 All right. 00:24:04.520 --> 00:24:05.100 No, it's fun. 00:24:05.540 --> 00:24:05.700 Okay. 00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:08.740 I want to talk more data science stuff. 00:24:09.100 --> 00:24:12.800 Let's talk Juvio, J-U-V-I-O. 00:24:13.100 --> 00:24:32.780 I don't know. How would you say it, Brian? Every one of these needs like a little, how do I pronounce this button? Juvio. Is it Spanish? I don't know. So Juvio is a reproducible dependency aware, get friendly Jupyter notebook. All that sounds interesting. And there's a lot of things that say that, but what is, for me, what is, how's it, how do I think of this? And it is in the name. 00:24:33.140 --> 00:25:12.760 It's a Jupyter notebook sort of environment that is based on uv. So one of the things I find super clunky about Jupyter Notebooks and JupyterLab and Jupyter is you can create a virtual environment, you can install Jupyter in it, you run it, and then you have to somehow go and independently outside of Jupyter register your kernel to find that virtual environment so then you can use that thing. It's just like, what? Okay, so Juvio allows you to basically run commands in your notebook to install things, right? You can actually use the script thing from uv where you say script, requires this version of Python, these versions of the dependencies. 00:25:13.460 --> 00:25:20.340 And then when you open it up, Juvio installs the dependencies automatically in an ephemeral virtual environment using uv. 00:25:20.980 --> 00:25:21.560 All of that I'm loving. 00:25:21.780 --> 00:25:22.340 How cool is that? 00:25:22.620 --> 00:25:27.280 So you just put in, you know, this is what this notebook depends upon, even the version of Python. 00:25:27.590 --> 00:25:32.920 And if that version of Python is not on your machine, uv will download it and then create a virtual environment for you. 00:25:33.050 --> 00:25:34.320 That is awesome. 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:35.220 That is awesome. 00:25:35.580 --> 00:25:35.700 Yeah. 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.880 It's also Git-friendly. 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:44.400 So notebooks are converted on the fly to script style format, which is where you have the hash, then percent, percent. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:48.900 So if you open it up in like PyCharm or VS Code, it has like cell type behavior. 00:25:49.300 --> 00:25:51.280 This one is for the Brave. 00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:52.600 It is an early beta. 00:25:52.980 --> 00:25:55.380 It's better than early alpha, I suppose, but an early beta. 00:25:55.600 --> 00:25:56.360 So check it out. 00:25:56.820 --> 00:25:58.260 Yeah, pretty nice. 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:02.740 You can enable it as a extension is how you basically set it up. 00:26:02.860 --> 00:26:13.200 That reminds me like a little bit of a tangent, But you know that with uv, you can put those little script things at the top of your file to do your dependencies just in the file? 00:26:13.540 --> 00:26:14.880 Yeah, that's the same thing here, by the way. 00:26:15.100 --> 00:26:24.140 Yeah, I've just realized I've been going through using some of the stuff that I've built over the last many years at work. 00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:28.880 And some of the stuff, they had been little tiny little packages. 00:26:29.180 --> 00:26:32.620 And I realized that they don't need to be packages with this. 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:35.320 They just have a couple dependencies in a single file script. 00:26:35.760 --> 00:26:38.640 And now they're back to just single file scripts again. 00:26:38.900 --> 00:26:39.400 That's cool. 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:40.020 It's awesome. 00:26:40.110 --> 00:26:43.700 You just say uv run the script and it looks at that and says, all right, what do we need? 00:26:43.780 --> 00:26:44.340 Do we need Python? 00:26:44.660 --> 00:26:45.180 What version of Python? 00:26:45.460 --> 00:26:45.800 What dependencies? 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:51.280 And once it's cached that stuff once, right, once uv has cached that once, it's basically instant. 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:51.900 Yeah, 00:26:52.060 --> 00:26:52.300 it's cool. 00:26:52.580 --> 00:26:52.760 Yeah. 00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:53.120 Yeah. 00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:53.540 Super cool. 00:26:53.840 --> 00:26:56.640 So yeah, that's pretty much it. 00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:58.260 If that sounds interesting to you, check it out. 00:26:58.410 --> 00:26:59.300 Let us know what you think. 00:26:59.620 --> 00:27:08.560 but somehow making Jupyter Notebooks work automatically with ephemeral environments in Pythons managed by uv speaks to me. I like it. 00:27:09.320 --> 00:27:15.120 Oh, and Pat Decker suggests again alias py equals uv run. Perfect. 00:27:15.190 --> 00:27:15.820 So you can just pi. 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.820 Doesn't work on Windows because there's already a pi, but alias itself doesn't work. So you know what? 00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:22.800 You have to create a batch file or something. I don't know. 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:27.180 I guess. I've been using batch on Windows for decades, but 00:27:27.420 --> 00:27:28.460 you are such a 00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:28.660 rebel. 00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:55.620 so one quick extra for me is that testing code is not dead but it looks like it so testing code the last episode of it came out may 7th and checks calendar it's june 23rd what's up there what's up is kind of some life there's a lot going on outside of my day job and python bytes that is pushing this out. 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.420 But I have some great interviews already ready. 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:00.860 They just need edited. 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:02.480 So stay tuned. 00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:04.160 There will be great stuff out. 00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:10.240 I just interviewed Sebastian Ramirez recently, and there's some great interviews coming up. 00:28:10.460 --> 00:28:12.220 So stick with it. 00:28:13.860 --> 00:28:15.320 Be patient with me, please. 00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:17.100 Anyway, we'll be back. 00:28:18.040 --> 00:28:20.080 But I never let Python Bytes drop. 00:28:20.380 --> 00:28:22.380 It's weekly, no matter what, because of Michael. 00:28:23.580 --> 00:28:24.520 Python Bytes is awesome. 00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:25.000 Yeah. 00:28:25.300 --> 00:28:25.840 Do you have any extras? 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:29.520 I thought no, but I just realized I'll throw something out there. 00:28:29.620 --> 00:28:29.740 Okay. 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:38.160 So later this week up in Washington, almost in Canada, there's the largest off-road motorcycle rally in North America, I believe. 00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:43.620 The Tour Tech Rally, which is like 1,500 people going to this campground and doing like joint rides and stuff. 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:46.580 I'm going to be there from Thursday to Sunday. 00:28:46.980 --> 00:28:48.520 If people are there, shoot me a text. 00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:51.120 Come say hi or go riding together or something like that. 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:51.600 All right. 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:52.920 It's in Plain, Washington? 00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:53.420 It's not 00:28:53.420 --> 00:28:54.180 fancy in Washington? 00:28:54.560 --> 00:28:54.720 No, 00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:57.740 this is like basic camping. 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:00.380 Well, can you put it on your motorcycle and then camp from there for four days? 00:29:00.580 --> 00:29:00.820 Okay. 00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:01.580 It's going to be very plain. 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:03.960 It's actually right by Leavenworth, which I think is kind of a cool place. 00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:04.420 Cool. 00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:04.960 Oh, yeah. 00:29:05.560 --> 00:29:06.240 That's it for my extra. 00:29:07.460 --> 00:29:09.620 So shall we do a trio of jokes? 00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:10.400 Sure. 00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:11.020 All right. 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:19.100 So someone sent this in, and I'm so sorry I forgot who sent it in, but I found it in multiple places, and it was really great that they did. 00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:20.260 Programmers are human. 00:29:20.580 --> 00:29:22.440 I think we've covered stuff from him before. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:26.060 This amazing German guy who does really good jokes. 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.540 Like I think we talked about the vibe coding one one time. 00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:28.940 Yeah. 00:29:29.040 --> 00:29:29.200 Remember 00:29:29.200 --> 00:29:29.420 that? 00:29:29.860 --> 00:29:31.200 Senior engineer tried vibe coding. 00:29:31.300 --> 00:29:32.040 That was so good. 00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:36.620 So he's back with the interview with the 0.1x. 00:29:36.840 --> 00:29:38.180 People heard the 10x engineer. 00:29:38.340 --> 00:29:39.940 Like the 0.1x engineer. 00:29:40.560 --> 00:29:40.820 Full. 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:41.940 I found the full episode. 00:29:43.060 --> 00:29:43.580 The 10th. 00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:44.280 What do you think of it? 00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:45.460 This was hilarious. 00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:50.340 I immediately, as soon as I watched this, I texted you also and said, have you seen this? 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:53.120 Like, yeah, I watched it half an hour ago. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:53.580 It's so good. 00:29:53.820 --> 00:29:53.920 Yeah. 00:29:54.780 --> 00:29:56.140 We're not going to play it because I don't know. 00:29:56.360 --> 00:29:59.220 Like, it's someone else's YouTube work. 00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:00.460 We'll let them have it. 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:02.640 But it is so good. 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:05.280 It is certainly five minutes of time well spent. 00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:06.380 So we'll link to the YouTube video. 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.860 It's got awesome comments like, yeah, the last stable release. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:10.760 Yeah, yeah. 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:12.560 That was before I joined the company, wasn't it? 00:30:12.940 --> 00:30:13.880 And stuff like that. 00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:19.360 Or my job at the company is to optimize the file size of the readme. 00:30:21.220 --> 00:30:27.620 Yeah. Yeah. Or there's some, I've forgotten a lot of them, but there's some really good, good, good one 00:30:27.620 --> 00:30:28.340 -liners to. 00:30:28.540 --> 00:30:29.360 You want some sweet 00:30:29.360 --> 00:30:30.880 one-liners? Yeah, here we go. 00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:32.000 This is 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:50.200 it. And totally unrelated. I have two more, not, not related to this, but I think Python relevant is Google came out with VO3, which is a, a way to make full film AI content, not just images, but it's images, voice, movie. 00:30:50.380 --> 00:31:12.580 it's insane. And so I've stumbled across this. Now, before you, before you click on this and before you visit it, I must warn you, this is like kryptonite to your YouTube feed. So if you watch this, it will take days to get anything normal on your YouTube feed again. I don't know why do it in incognito. Just trust me. Don't make the mistake me and my daughter made. She's like, dad, I got it. Literally got a text. Dad, you've destroyed my YouTube feed. 00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:21.720 So there's a couple of video, a couple of channels, and there's like multiple ones of these, But I'll link to a couple that are really good. 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.540 There's a Bigfoot and a Yeti channel. 00:31:25.040 --> 00:31:30.640 And all these are like vlogs, like in the day of the life of Bigfoot and so on. 00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.820 And oh my goodness, is this so funny. 00:31:35.040 --> 00:31:36.540 And it is incredibly good. 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:39.720 So you can only make eight second clips, right, with this video thing? 00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:40.500 So what 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:45.160 they do is they just make clip after clip after clip as like little segments in like the vlog of the life. 00:31:46.040 --> 00:31:47.980 If you haven't seen this, I think you'll be surprised. 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.120 If you, there's the Yeti Bigfoot one, which is real good. 00:31:51.300 --> 00:31:55.300 And then there's also the day in the life of a storm trooper, adventures of Dave and Greg. 00:31:55.940 --> 00:32:04.020 These, these are so funny and you know, they're made with Python somewhere along the way because of all the AI stuff and the VO and whatnot. 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.640 But just remember incognito or you don't blame me. 00:32:10.340 --> 00:32:10.440 Yeah. 00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:12.080 I'll probably just use the Python bytes account. 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:13.620 Yeah, exactly. 00:32:13.780 --> 00:32:13.860 Yeah. 00:32:13.940 --> 00:32:14.040 Please. 00:32:14.860 --> 00:32:15.460 We'll have nothing. 00:32:16.280 --> 00:32:17.940 I love nothing but these things in there. 00:32:18.040 --> 00:32:18.100 Now, 00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:18.980 it's really 00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:23.880 funny, and it's just one more AI thing in this world that we live in that is just a weird time. 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:25.000 But it's super creative, too. 00:32:25.140 --> 00:32:27.500 Like, people really are being creative with it. 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:27.880 Okay. 00:32:28.060 --> 00:32:28.540 And I 00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:40.280 got to just say that, like, you know, wherever you stand on AI, stuff like being able to make movies around with, like, Stormtrooper costumes and stuff, that is out of the realm of most people's 00:32:40.280 --> 00:32:41.200 budget. 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:47.060 But the ability, I'm sure it's fairly time-consuming to put these things together. 00:32:47.540 --> 00:32:54.500 But now it is in the realm of somebody that just has some good writing, some good sense of humor to be able to put 00:32:54.500 --> 00:32:55.340 these 00:32:55.340 --> 00:32:55.940 things together. 00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:56.380 So 00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:56.980 that's good. 00:32:57.120 --> 00:32:58.700 Yeah, there's definitely good writing here. 00:32:59.380 --> 00:33:00.440 You've got to do the script and stuff. 00:33:00.810 --> 00:33:04.400 But comments are like, this is better content than Disney has done in the last few years. 00:33:04.560 --> 00:33:05.840 It's really funny. 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:08.300 So, I mean, it's surprisingly well done. 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:11.960 And the AI is, you know, we live in weird times, Ryan. 00:33:12.120 --> 00:33:12.680 That's all I can say. 00:33:12.800 --> 00:33:22.120 Well, in eight-second clips, I mean, pay attention to the last action movie you've watched that doesn't stick with the same camera angle for more than a few seconds anyway. 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.100 Yeah, yeah. 00:33:23.350 --> 00:33:23.660 It doesn't 00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:24.120 seem that out 00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:24.400 of place. 00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:24.900 All right. 00:33:25.280 --> 00:33:25.720 There's your jokes. 00:33:26.080 --> 00:33:27.580 Seriously, relevant joke. 00:33:27.860 --> 00:33:29.460 Check out the 0.1x engineer. 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:30.160 That's amazing. 00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:30.700 Yeah, 00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:31.160 definitely. 00:33:31.840 --> 00:33:34.200 Over lunch, maybe grab the logs. 00:33:35.780 --> 00:33:37.960 I'm really warning you, don't do it on your regular account. 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:48.120 yeah all right well that's it for today a wonderful episode with you again michael thank you yes thank you as well and 00:33:48.120 --> 00:34:03.120 before we sign out this is not something we've been doing lately brian but maybe we should more it's like i just want to encourage people who are watching the youtube channel here either live or in in the future at some point you know please subscribe to channel like the video and help us spread the word yeah 00:34:03.120 --> 00:34:25.840 i guess we don't we don't like do call to action too much but uh like the videos that would be great but i also um uh we can grow the podcast more share it with a friend if you've got some new interns starting say hey you should keep up on python much more you should check out this podcast it's staying up on python in easy mode you got a car rider you're mowing the lawn you're doing the dishes hit play it's all 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:27.240 good get to later bye