WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.580 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to earbuds. 00:00:05.020 --> 00:00:09.840 This is episode 479, recorded May 11th, 2026. 00:00:10.180 --> 00:00:11.020 And I'm Brian Aachen. 00:00:11.300 --> 00:00:12.060 And I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:22.000 This episode is sponsored by all of our stuff, like the pytest book and pytest courses and Talk Python training and so much else. 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:23.360 And also Patreon supporters. 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:24.420 Thank you, Patreon supporters. 00:00:24.780 --> 00:00:34.320 If you'd like to get a topic, if you've got a topic that you think we ought to talk about or just are interested in, don't worry about whether or not we've heard it or not. 00:00:34.420 --> 00:00:35.700 Just send it on over anyway. 00:00:36.540 --> 00:00:39.460 You can reach us on Mastodon and Bluesky. 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:46.980 And there's a contact form right on the show notes, but right there on pythonbytes.fm as well. 00:00:47.080 --> 00:00:48.100 So you can check that out. 00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:51.100 Thanks to everybody that watches us live on YouTube. 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:59.280 If you'd like to be a part of the audience and submit comments and stuff, you can head on over to pythonbytes.fm/live and be part of that. 00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:02.920 And you don't need to take notes because you can just get our newsletter. 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:09.420 So go to the pythonbytes.fm also and subscribe to the newsletter and we'll send you. 00:01:09.700 --> 00:01:14.220 We don't send much other than just the links and all the information. 00:01:14.580 --> 00:01:17.440 Well, there's a lot of content in the weekly email that we send out. 00:01:17.440 --> 00:01:22.400 So it's not just the links to everything we talked about, but it's also some background information. 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:27.420 And you'll especially want this time because we got some cool stuff. 00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:31.860 So speaking of cool stuff, Michael, want to kick us off? 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:33.000 Yeah, let's kick it. 00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:34.340 Let's kick it off. 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.380 Let's talk about HTTPX YZ. 00:01:37.380 --> 00:01:51.980 So recall, this is Mikhail had created a fork and we covered why I forked HTTPX and it was part of the larger churn around in code, I believe, and so on and all of that. 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:56.000 So this is the one month check-in and it's pretty interesting. 00:01:56.140 --> 00:01:59.500 I think it's got some ideas worth paying attention to here. 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:05.640 So basically a couple of things worth talking about is they got the first version out. 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:11.180 It contains some fixes to get ZSTD working, get the test running, housekeeping, and so on. 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.860 But then more importantly, end of March, some fixes came out. 00:02:15.320 --> 00:02:18.060 Compatibility shim that allows you to use HTTPX. 00:02:18.380 --> 00:02:30.760 This is, okay, this is the thing that really made me want to cover this because they released a compatibility shim that allows you to use HTTPX YZ even when third-party packages use HTTPX themselves. 00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:32.720 So this is my dilemma. 00:02:32.720 --> 00:02:38.220 I look at my project and I see that I'm using HTTPX and I'm like, huh, it'd be really cool to switch to HTTPX YZ. 00:02:38.480 --> 00:02:39.600 Seems like the right thing to do. 00:02:39.860 --> 00:02:47.280 And then I go look at my pip compiled output and it says HTTPX because these seven packages are using HTTPX. 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:49.240 I'm like, huh, well, that's kind of useless. 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:55.020 Like why would I use one when I have to effectively use these others all the time when I interact with those libraries, right? 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.980 I'm still in the same boat and I don't see a life raft or any way to get out of that boat. 00:02:59.980 --> 00:03:01.040 But here's that thing. 00:03:01.140 --> 00:03:02.040 And it's pretty interesting. 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:13.040 If all you got to do is if you import at the startup of your app HTTPX YZ, it also tells it the world that it is HTTPX. 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:13.540 Okay. 00:03:13.640 --> 00:03:20.060 So for example, you can assert that HTTPX is in system modules of HTTPX YZ, right? 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:20.560 That kind of thing. 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:32.080 So if you import HTTPX somewhere along the way, some other app does, other part of your app does, it will still, it'll still return basically a compatible layer, even at a type instance. 00:03:32.200 --> 00:03:40.460 So if you ask, is this thing that I got from HTTPX YZ.response of some type of, is that actually an HTTPX.response? 00:03:40.740 --> 00:03:41.100 Yes. 00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:43.060 So really interesting compatibility. 00:03:43.300 --> 00:03:44.520 And honestly, I don't know how it does that. 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:45.560 That's pretty interesting. 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:45.960 Yeah. 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:53.580 How do you say you are, I derive from this class in another library without having the other library present? 00:03:53.900 --> 00:03:54.240 You know what I mean? 00:03:54.420 --> 00:03:58.400 Well, as long as the endpoints are there, you're going to fulfill it. 00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.820 But it is a... 00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:00.980 Yeah, but it's not duck typing. 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:01.840 This is strong typing. 00:04:01.960 --> 00:04:03.220 It's asking is instance, right? 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:04.220 That's what I think is interesting. 00:04:04.500 --> 00:04:04.720 Yeah. 00:04:04.920 --> 00:04:05.720 Well, yeah. 00:04:05.940 --> 00:04:06.120 Interesting. 00:04:06.260 --> 00:04:06.420 I don't know. 00:04:06.660 --> 00:04:10.480 I feel like I'm going to go on a typing rant this episode. 00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:11.800 So prepare yourself, people. 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:12.460 Prepare yourself. 00:04:12.460 --> 00:04:18.640 So this is not uncommon, like Pillow has done this, OpenCV has done this, YAML, PyYAML have done this, and so on. 00:04:18.640 --> 00:04:25.980 Well, but done this being, they've got a different name that you use, you import from the library. 00:04:26.280 --> 00:04:32.960 But the hijacking some other project's name, that's, I don't know what I feel about that. 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:36.060 I don't know a way around it other than this. 00:04:36.740 --> 00:04:39.760 No, in this case, I think it's a good thing. 00:04:39.760 --> 00:04:42.420 It seems like this could be abused. 00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:42.960 Yes. 00:04:43.100 --> 00:04:43.500 Agreed. 00:04:43.700 --> 00:04:44.100 Agreed. 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:44.440 Okay. 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.620 Well, welcome to Python imports, I guess, huh? 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:47.540 Yeah. 00:04:47.980 --> 00:04:49.740 So I think this is actually pretty interesting. 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:53.480 And also, this is kind of the flow of this project. 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:59.500 It's like, oh, we noticed that HTTP core is actually the root of many of the problems, which is also a similar project. 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:05.800 So we have to create HTTP core XYZ, and fix a whole bunch of issues, some serious, and so on. 00:05:06.100 --> 00:05:07.100 So there you go. 00:05:07.300 --> 00:05:08.720 Got some nice quotes here. 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.220 And then finally, it's on Codeberg, which I think is not the right choice. 00:05:14.400 --> 00:05:20.400 I understand the desire, but in practice, I don't think it's the right. 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:23.020 I think it should be on GitHub, even with all the GitHub issues. 00:05:23.460 --> 00:05:25.820 Because, you know, you look at it, it's got 39 stars. 00:05:26.180 --> 00:05:29.100 Like, HTTPX has 15,000. 00:05:29.300 --> 00:05:29.540 Right. 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:30.780 So on GitHub. 00:05:31.260 --> 00:05:31.700 I don't know. 00:05:31.900 --> 00:05:36.820 I think that that's, you know, Mikhail says, look, I'd love to make GitHub a little bit less dominant. 00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:37.900 Yes, I agree. 00:05:38.300 --> 00:05:42.320 But, you know, I don't necessarily know that I would try to fight two battles in one. 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:44.440 You're already trying to make HTTPX not less dominant. 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:45.500 I see it. 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.520 I have sympathy. 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:52.080 You can get rid of a lot of junk if you're not on GitHub. 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:52.880 Yeah. 00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:53.500 I know. 00:05:53.700 --> 00:05:55.000 It's like, what are you optimizing for? 00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:58.000 Are you optimizing for the developers, the project's benefit? 00:05:58.120 --> 00:05:59.480 Or are you optimizing for exposure? 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:00.740 I don't think so. 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:02.900 I think it's whether or not you want contributors. 00:06:03.800 --> 00:06:07.680 Because the exposure's through, like, PyPI, not really GitHub. 00:06:08.140 --> 00:06:10.540 And maybe podcasts, people talk about it. 00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:10.960 Yeah. 00:06:11.060 --> 00:06:12.580 Anyway, I think it's a cool project. 00:06:12.840 --> 00:06:16.960 I'm going to look into maybe use it more now that that shim thing exists. 00:06:17.280 --> 00:06:17.480 Yeah. 00:06:17.640 --> 00:06:17.800 Cool. 00:06:18.080 --> 00:06:21.480 And while I'm doing that, Brian, maybe you want to talk to us about concurrency? 00:06:22.340 --> 00:06:23.440 I'll get back to you on what I've learned. 00:06:23.740 --> 00:06:24.600 I do. 00:06:25.060 --> 00:06:25.460 Yeah. 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:27.340 While I'm doing that. 00:06:27.340 --> 00:06:27.600 Yeah. 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:30.040 So concurrency. 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.040 So I ran across this article. 00:06:33.280 --> 00:06:34.120 It's on GeekUni. 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:35.600 I don't know what that is. 00:06:35.700 --> 00:06:39.380 But it looks like there's some interesting stuff way back to 2013. 00:06:39.840 --> 00:06:44.840 But anyway, Lean Concurrency, a deep dive into multithreading with Python. 00:06:45.340 --> 00:06:47.820 And this is the author, Nikos. 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.160 And I actually really like this article. 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.140 So I do. 00:06:53.520 --> 00:06:56.760 I'm familiar with multithreading in multiple languages. 00:06:56.760 --> 00:06:59.120 And I don't use it a lot in Python. 00:06:59.260 --> 00:07:04.720 And I do have a lot of projects or at least a couple of projects coming up that I want to use some concurrency. 00:07:05.580 --> 00:07:07.820 And so a refresher is a good idea. 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:11.720 And the world has changed a little bit recently. 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:18.180 I mean, the big recently in Python because we've got Gilders Python. 00:07:18.380 --> 00:07:19.260 We have free-threaded. 00:07:19.260 --> 00:07:21.920 And it changes the dynamics a little bit. 00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:25.560 So it's a good time to have a refresher on concurrency with Python. 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:26.260 And this is... 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:30.880 So we are going to talk about multithreading in this article. 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:36.160 But one of the great things that I like about this is it doesn't assume anything. 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:44.380 So it's talking about like in data science or cryptography or data processing, some of the places where you might want concurrency. 00:07:44.580 --> 00:07:47.000 But there is really lots of places where you want it. 00:07:47.320 --> 00:07:53.920 And then filling in some of the terms that you may not be familiar with, like concurrency versus sequential. 00:07:54.200 --> 00:07:55.300 We probably should know that. 00:07:55.580 --> 00:07:59.080 But things like global interpreter lock. 00:07:59.080 --> 00:08:01.980 And, you know, I guess we already know those things. 00:08:02.380 --> 00:08:03.300 But there's a... 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:06.860 One of the terms is like embarrassingly concurrent. 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.740 And I kind of forgot what that meant. 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:11.300 So it's good there. 00:08:11.460 --> 00:08:12.760 And that just means... 00:08:12.760 --> 00:08:20.600 Well, it means that you can separate the work into things that can work without any interactions. 00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:23.180 Those are embarrassingly concurrent. 00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:23.580 Anyway. 00:08:23.780 --> 00:08:23.900 Yeah. 00:08:23.960 --> 00:08:27.840 One super, super common example of that is like video game graphics. 00:08:27.840 --> 00:08:31.340 Each pixel is computed independent of each other pixel. 00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:39.060 So if you've got a million pixels, like as much parallelism as you can just compute each pixel at the same time, they're not going to interfere with each other, right? 00:08:39.300 --> 00:08:39.580 Yeah. 00:08:39.860 --> 00:08:41.680 It is funny that it's embarrassingly. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:43.140 It's not really embarrassingly. 00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:44.180 It's just ideal. 00:08:45.340 --> 00:08:45.860 Exactly. 00:08:46.060 --> 00:08:48.580 What a glass half empty perspective that is. 00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:53.320 So I just encourage people to look through this. 00:08:53.420 --> 00:08:57.040 There's some great walkthroughs about different things. 00:08:57.040 --> 00:09:02.300 And also, it talks about free-threaded concurrency as well. 00:09:02.500 --> 00:09:06.740 If you want to catch up with the GIL and getting rid of the GIL and stuff. 00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:12.660 And it even talks about how to install the free-threaded Python, which is nice. 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.260 Which, of course, you're going to just use uv. 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:19.920 But even with uv, you have to do the 3.14T. 00:09:20.060 --> 00:09:22.240 You have to add the T to the end to get it to work. 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:27.080 One of the cool things, I think, is that it's not a magic bullet. 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:32.440 You can't just use free-threaded Python with threads and have it be magically fast. 00:09:32.860 --> 00:09:34.000 And that's one of the cool... 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.880 Like, Fibonacci is a hard one because you're sort of... 00:09:37.880 --> 00:09:41.380 To really do it faster, you depend on previous ones. 00:09:41.740 --> 00:09:45.320 So it's slightly interesting with a Fibonacci. 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.220 But how many times do you really calculate Fibonacci? 00:09:48.420 --> 00:09:51.040 So the better examples below that. 00:09:51.380 --> 00:09:55.700 And it's a very simple example of just having a bunch of threads update a counter. 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:56.320 But it's... 00:09:57.100 --> 00:09:58.240 And you won't do this. 00:09:58.360 --> 00:09:59.220 But it'll be... 00:09:59.220 --> 00:10:03.880 It's a cool example because it's an obvious one where you've got shared data. 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.920 There are a bunch of threads all accessing the counter. 00:10:07.180 --> 00:10:08.720 So it's a very simple toy example. 00:10:09.020 --> 00:10:11.980 But you could see how that relates to a lot of other work. 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:13.340 The cool thing... 00:10:13.340 --> 00:10:23.480 One of the interesting things about this is it talks about some of the problems with concurrency, how to get around it, problems with concurrency and shared data. 00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:32.100 And one of the first things I reached for because I came from C and C++ is locks when I want to have shared data. 00:10:32.780 --> 00:10:40.120 And within this example, locks turns out to be the wrong solution because it actually slows everything down. 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:43.680 And I'm familiar with that with other languages as well. 00:10:44.340 --> 00:10:54.180 But the cool thing that I've never really understood before that I'm grateful for this article to talk about is the thread pool executor. 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:55.020 Or executor? 00:10:55.140 --> 00:10:55.500 Thread pool? 00:10:55.620 --> 00:10:56.000 I don't know. 00:10:56.160 --> 00:10:57.260 Thread pool executor. 00:10:57.260 --> 00:11:08.480 Of how to launch a bunch of threads, have them come up with their own answer without talking to each other at all, no shared data, and then collect the return values. 00:11:08.860 --> 00:11:10.800 And that's the really good way. 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:14.200 So with concurrency, not surprising. 00:11:14.660 --> 00:11:19.640 Best way to do it is to re-architect your algorithms so that they can take advantage of it. 00:11:19.640 --> 00:11:26.000 And what I'm excited about is that now we don't have to rely on async.io. 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:27.020 You can still. 00:11:27.340 --> 00:11:32.280 But for a lot of parallel processing, we can just use threads now, finally, in Python. 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:33.100 Threads are okay. 00:11:33.540 --> 00:11:35.580 So anyway, good article. 00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:36.060 It's very exciting. 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:36.720 Good introduction. 00:11:37.280 --> 00:11:37.880 Yeah, cool. 00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:38.520 And it's very exciting. 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:42.220 I think it's going to give us a chance to talk about all sorts of fun things. 00:11:42.220 --> 00:11:51.400 You know, we in Python land have not obsessed about all these design patterns, race conditions, making sure you lock all of your activity. 00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:51.940 Yeah. 00:11:52.140 --> 00:11:52.980 But we're going to have to start. 00:11:53.300 --> 00:11:53.780 Have to start. 00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:56.100 And I'm not sure that we necessarily should not have. 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.320 The guild does not protect you against corrupt multi-step race conditions. 00:12:01.800 --> 00:12:07.400 Well, we've, I mean, we've kind of benefited that threads don't really run at the same time up until now. 00:12:07.660 --> 00:12:07.760 So. 00:12:07.920 --> 00:12:08.700 Yeah, yeah, I know. 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:11.340 But like, that's totally fine for one operation. 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:14.860 But let's suppose that I like, you know, the classic bank example. 00:12:15.020 --> 00:12:16.440 I take, I debit somebody out of this account. 00:12:16.760 --> 00:12:18.220 I do 10 lines of work. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.080 And then I credit the other account. 00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:20.300 Yeah. 00:12:20.340 --> 00:12:24.520 Nothing, nothing says that the guild will not stop halfway through. 00:12:24.640 --> 00:12:26.340 It's just, it's not very likely. 00:12:26.620 --> 00:12:30.460 So the, you know, those problems are there in the code, which I think is going to be a double whammy. 00:12:30.540 --> 00:12:35.660 But it also lets us start to think about the fun things like double checked locking, which is such a cool idea. 00:12:35.780 --> 00:12:39.120 You know, like, there's, there's, I think it's going to be really fun. 00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:39.900 I think it's going to be fun. 00:12:39.900 --> 00:12:40.520 So for example. 00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:41.240 Checked locking. 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:41.560 Yeah. 00:12:41.620 --> 00:12:42.280 So check this out. 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.100 So I, I'll put this in the show notes. 00:12:44.400 --> 00:12:46.320 It's just off of, or put it, look it up on Wikipedia. 00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:51.840 So what you can do is you can say, if you have a single threaded thing, you can check, like, if this, this object is null. 00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.080 Let's say it's a singleton. 00:12:53.380 --> 00:12:54.800 If this object is null, create a new one. 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.600 So you only create it once and then return it. 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:57.740 But it's like a lazy crate. 00:12:57.740 --> 00:13:05.160 But if like the default multi-threaded version would be every time you call this function, take a lock, check if it's null. 00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:07.340 If it is created, return it. 00:13:07.340 --> 00:13:13.700 But you can do things like check outside the lock if it's null and then take a lock and then check again if it's null. 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:16.320 Because maybe two things hit, one of them locked, one of them created it. 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.320 You still want the same one. 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:23.880 But you can like skip the locking ever, except for like during the once, one and only creation. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.680 Like there's really fun patterns like that. 00:13:25.720 --> 00:13:27.720 So I'm kind of actually looking forward to it, you know? 00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:29.760 I'm not looking forward to the race conditions. 00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:31.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:36.360 Speaking of locks, let's lock files instead of memory and execution. 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:40.480 So it turns out that pip 26.1 is out. 00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:43.840 And it comes with features that I've been very excited about. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:47.560 Most importantly, dependency cooldowns. 00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:49.760 Don't remember, I don't remember when I wrote about this. 00:13:49.880 --> 00:13:51.640 It was December last year. 00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:54.480 I wrote about Python supply chains made easy. 00:13:54.580 --> 00:13:56.900 And I wrote a follow-up one for like doing that production. 00:13:57.100 --> 00:14:05.460 One of the really most important significant bits of this was, you know, instead of you finding out, let's let others find out that something's bad. 00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:12.340 And the way you do that is you simply just go over and you just say uv pip, whatever, install, compile, whatever. 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:14.040 Or exclude newer one week. 00:14:14.180 --> 00:14:17.720 And this was a thing that uv had that pip did not have, right? 00:14:18.020 --> 00:14:21.860 So chalk one more thing for uv over pip. 00:14:22.140 --> 00:14:25.200 But now pip itself actually has the same concept. 00:14:25.520 --> 00:14:28.740 They have different CLI flags, which I don't know. 00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:31.320 I feel like they should have just said, well, what are people using now? 00:14:31.380 --> 00:14:32.600 Let's use that same CLI flag. 00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:33.460 But so it is. 00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.500 So it has this. 00:14:35.760 --> 00:14:37.460 Let's go down to the cooldowns. 00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:38.520 Here we go. 00:14:38.680 --> 00:14:42.780 So you can say --uploaded prior to. 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:47.560 And you can put some kind of time in there, a duration. 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.600 So PND, where N is the number of days, kind of. 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:53.400 Okay. 00:14:53.680 --> 00:14:57.580 Anyway, so you say P3D is like prior to three days is the value. 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:58.720 And then you can install something. 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:02.420 And that says it will only install the older, you know, stuff older than three days. 00:15:02.540 --> 00:15:04.040 And this is super valuable. 00:15:04.160 --> 00:15:07.280 It sounds like, oh, Michael, this is like security through obscurity. 00:15:07.280 --> 00:15:08.360 And it's not going to make a difference. 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.860 Like almost all of these major takeovers are like three hours later, it was found. 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:13.160 Five hours later, it was found. 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:13.540 Yeah. 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:17.240 Rarely do these things sit around for a week unless they're extremely rare. 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.700 But the major projects take over like the, oh my gosh. 00:15:21.180 --> 00:15:26.460 You remember which, that LLM library that you use for like a facade over all the different LLMs. 00:15:26.460 --> 00:15:30.000 That one was taken down two hours after it was gotten in there. 00:15:30.060 --> 00:15:30.440 You know what I mean? 00:15:30.800 --> 00:15:33.040 So these, I think these are meaningful differences. 00:15:33.900 --> 00:15:36.120 Why the actual difference in CLI? 00:15:36.280 --> 00:15:36.960 I don't know. 00:15:37.180 --> 00:15:38.700 Maybe there's a good reason, but I don't know. 00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:40.520 Anyway, I'm really glad to see pip having this. 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.220 Also, Python 3.9 is not supported. 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.080 It's end of life over six, seven months ago. 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.640 So it seems fine that it shouldn't be here anymore. 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:52.460 I mean, I don't even remember 3.9. 00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:53.040 Yeah, I don't. 00:15:53.180 --> 00:15:54.200 What was 3.9? 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:54.680 We don't even know. 00:15:54.680 --> 00:15:59.860 So honestly, I don't know why you would have any support for any older version. 00:16:00.160 --> 00:16:03.960 You might say, well, Michael, somebody might be on Python 3.9 and they got to install stuff. 00:16:04.060 --> 00:16:06.420 Like just pin pip to 25, right? 00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:10.240 Like pip 25 is what they were using when they had Python 3.9 anyway. 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.240 Just install a different version of Pip. 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:15.540 I think that's like a no-brainer and should just be like a default. 00:16:15.780 --> 00:16:16.260 New features. 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:18.040 This is interesting. 00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:19.880 Like, first of all, I am very positive about this. 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.140 I think this is a great move and I'm really happy to see it. 00:16:22.140 --> 00:16:26.780 Even if I have some criticisms like PND, which is just weird. 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:28.560 And there's already existing ones. 00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:29.900 So this is also a little like that. 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:31.000 So Brett Cannon. 00:16:31.420 --> 00:16:31.580 Go ahead. 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.880 No, what are PND files? 00:16:34.040 --> 00:16:34.300 I don't know. 00:16:34.380 --> 00:16:34.660 No, no. 00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:37.840 That's how you specify the three days ago. 00:16:38.060 --> 00:16:42.280 You say uploaded prior to equals P3D instead of just three days. 00:16:42.580 --> 00:16:43.720 Who's going to remember that? 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:44.140 Okay. 00:16:44.140 --> 00:16:44.500 Yeah. 00:16:44.780 --> 00:16:47.920 Like the uv one you just put in quotes, one week, seven days. 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:49.260 Well, I mean, it's easier. 00:16:49.260 --> 00:16:49.440 Yeah, whatever. 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:51.320 The parsing is probably easier or something. 00:16:51.520 --> 00:16:51.760 I don't know. 00:16:51.860 --> 00:16:54.720 I know, but it's used by millions of people, written by ones. 00:16:54.920 --> 00:16:56.520 You could ask AI, help me parse this. 00:16:56.780 --> 00:16:57.040 Anyway. 00:16:57.220 --> 00:16:57.760 Yeah, I got it. 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:02.980 So there's this PEP 751, which was created 2024. 00:17:03.420 --> 00:17:07.840 And it was, I believe it was accepted 14 months ago. 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:08.720 I'm not entirely sure. 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.760 It's not super obvious, but the resolution is March 2025. 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.120 So it's been around for a long time, about a year plus. 00:17:15.320 --> 00:17:15.440 Okay. 00:17:15.820 --> 00:17:20.980 And this is the file format to record Python dependencies for installation reproducibility by Brett Cannon. 00:17:21.100 --> 00:17:22.800 He's been working on this forever. 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:26.840 And the idea is this is basically the pylock.toml. 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:31.620 And that's, if you go over here, it's actually in the Python packaging user guide on how to do it. 00:17:31.820 --> 00:17:32.420 This is great. 00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:33.860 So why am I talking about this? 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.460 Because the deal is pip now supports installing these. 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:38.340 Oh. 00:17:38.340 --> 00:17:38.460 Oh. 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:40.580 Somewhat as an experimental feature. 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:50.120 So a year after its acceptance, which standardized pylock.toml, pip 26.1 gains experimental support for such files, for reading and installing from them. 00:17:50.300 --> 00:17:50.480 Okay. 00:17:50.500 --> 00:17:51.200 So this is great. 00:17:51.200 --> 00:18:01.100 I think it's just, you know, pip is the most common way to install stuff in Python still, even if it's not the most hyped or most Rust implemented way to do it. 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.640 It's still the most common way. 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:02.900 Right. 00:18:03.020 --> 00:18:05.400 And so having this support is kind of like table stakes. 00:18:05.560 --> 00:18:05.760 Right. 00:18:05.960 --> 00:18:06.840 So I think this is really cool. 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:09.940 There's a bunch of caveats and limitations and so on and so on. 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:20.140 But the criticism is like, if this is officially accepted by the core developers and Python and the steering council, why did it take a year for pip to support it? 00:18:20.340 --> 00:18:22.120 You know, that seems pretty out of sync. 00:18:22.320 --> 00:18:26.940 That's a long time from, yeah, we have this official feature and our official installer can't use it. 00:18:27.040 --> 00:18:27.320 Yeah. 00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:28.520 But I'm glad that it has it. 00:18:28.580 --> 00:18:29.140 So that's good. 00:18:29.320 --> 00:18:31.420 Maybe there's more to it than I know again, but who knows. 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.480 Some stuff about the older, like newer and older resolvers. 00:18:35.780 --> 00:18:40.180 The new resolver now does many of the things that the older resolvers were being kept around for. 00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:45.140 So I believe there's now a plan to remove the older legacy resolvers. 00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:50.020 Like if you've got this version less than or equal to, and you've got that other version and so on, like how do you resolve that? 00:18:50.020 --> 00:18:54.920 Then a few security fixes, not necessarily going to go into it too much, but there you go. 00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:56.860 A brand new pip 26.1. 00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:59.500 I feel like this is a big release, which is why I brought it up. 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.220 It's got the dependencies cooldowns, which I think is critical these days. 00:19:03.560 --> 00:19:05.260 And it's got lock file support. 00:19:05.540 --> 00:19:05.640 Yeah. 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.880 Yeah, no, it's really cool. 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:08.940 And it's definitely moving in the right direction. 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:09.380 Yeah. 00:19:10.020 --> 00:19:10.820 Also, shout out. 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:12.260 This is, yeah, go ahead. 00:19:12.500 --> 00:19:15.000 With wacky CLI names, but okay. 00:19:15.020 --> 00:19:15.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:16.780 Also just shout out. 00:19:16.820 --> 00:19:17.740 This is by Richard C. 00:19:17.840 --> 00:19:18.540 So thanks, Richard. 00:19:18.860 --> 00:19:19.040 Cool. 00:19:19.040 --> 00:19:21.880 I actually am excited about another PEP as well. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.040 So, we're going to stick with the PEP thing for a little bit. 00:19:25.100 --> 00:19:32.300 this time Sentinel Values and also a blast from the past because, my search still up. 00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:41.300 Anyway, this, Sentinel Values is PEP 661 and it was created in 2021 and it's five years later. 00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:42.900 so it's taken a while. 00:19:43.020 --> 00:19:49.680 However, it is, resolved as of, and, and final as of, for, for five, on 315. 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.020 So we'll get, we'll get Sentinels finally. 00:19:52.020 --> 00:20:01.720 there's a, there's, the, the, PEP 661 has a bunch of information, but it's also, it says important. 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:07.780 This is a historical document, even though it's just finally here, but it's been working, being worked on for five years. 00:20:07.780 --> 00:20:14.260 The, the actual information then is in, in, the Sentinel information now in the documentation. 00:20:14.260 --> 00:20:21.500 So we can, we can click over and look at, I already had it up, look at Sentinel Values and they're kind of neat. 00:20:21.500 --> 00:20:23.340 So I, I'm excited about this. 00:20:23.340 --> 00:20:28.040 I don't, I don't quite understand some of the information, the decisions, but that's okay. 00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:36.000 So, we often use like none for Sentinel value or some, or Nan, if you're doing, like floating point stuff. 00:20:36.300 --> 00:20:42.180 but this, you just, Sentinel is a built-in that you just have to, you don't have to import anything. 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:48.080 You just say Sentinel and then give it a quote, a name, like in the example, in the docs, it's missing. 00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:52.480 So Sentinel parentheses, and then the quote missing, you can name it, whatever. 00:20:52.480 --> 00:21:04.660 But the object, one of the interesting things is it acts kind of like none you use is like if, if you want to check a variable or, an element, if it is the Sentinel, you can say is, is missing. 00:21:05.060 --> 00:21:09.460 and, and then in the types, the type is handled interestingly. 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:12.740 The, the object is both the value and the type. 00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:22.900 So you can say like a default, like some variable is, is of a, of type int or the pipe operator or missing. 00:21:22.900 --> 00:21:26.480 So you can, you can have that together and it isn't missing altogether. 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:29.940 Missing isn't the magical, magical Sentinel value. 00:21:30.060 --> 00:21:34.280 You can have anything like, not available or whatever you want to call it. 00:21:34.280 --> 00:21:43.360 so about, I guess, you know, I think that it's, very much about time that we have a, Sentinel value built into the language. 00:21:43.700 --> 00:21:45.880 interesting that the, okay. 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.180 So everything so far is, sounds great. 00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:53.800 The part that I don't quite get is the, is that it's, it's not truthy or it is truthy. 00:21:53.860 --> 00:21:54.220 That's it. 00:21:54.360 --> 00:22:05.320 so if you're going through a list, like an array, and, and you want to check to see if it's Sentinel, you have to say is your Sentinel, you know, if you use the is operator 00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:16.940 to make sure it's there, you can't like none, you could just say if like, you know, if the value in, if that's true, that means it's not none because none is evaluates to false. 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.260 All the Sentinels evaluate to true. 00:22:19.600 --> 00:22:21.580 so you have to treat it differently. 00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:22.160 All right. 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:25.260 I'm already feeling a PEP to enhance the Sentinel coming on. 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.640 to, to make it, to flip the values. 00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:29.240 but what do you mean? 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:29.660 You know what? 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.880 I love the idea of a Sentinel. 00:22:31.040 --> 00:22:44.040 I love it because it lets you check, you know, it's like if you're doing a, you know, find me the index of this thing, this item in a string and it's negative one, which is also an integer, but like, that's the, that's means it's not there. 00:22:44.040 --> 00:22:44.320 Right. 00:22:44.360 --> 00:22:47.240 Like it's all those kinds of checks are just odd. 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:56.740 And I love having the idea of a Sentinel, a thing where you say, I can check this and it's the same type, but if it's, but if it is this, that means actually we weren't able to process it. 00:22:56.740 --> 00:22:56.980 Right. 00:22:56.980 --> 00:22:57.780 Cause yeah. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:58.960 Something weird came back. 00:22:59.140 --> 00:23:06.040 What I mean is, so the way you create the Sentinel value, like the, the, it's a singleton or one off type of thing. 00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:07.660 Like that's why you use is right. 00:23:07.660 --> 00:23:16.880 And so you say Sentinel and you give it a string, which I guess is the, what it prints when you try to like string or rep the value. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.140 Right. 00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:17.540 Yeah. 00:23:17.740 --> 00:23:18.420 And that's cool. 00:23:18.600 --> 00:23:20.860 Why not give it a default? 00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:26.680 I'm even in true, I guess, for compatibility at this point you would have to do, but why not give it a second variable? 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.660 You could pass like a falseness, like, is it true or false? 00:23:29.660 --> 00:23:31.000 Like comma false. 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:31.600 And then boom. 00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:31.860 Okay. 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:38.020 If this Sentinel comes up and I say, if value, no, this is not a value because it indicates the absence of a value. 00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:38.700 You know what I mean? 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:39.320 Yeah. 00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:40.540 Can I continue to rant? 00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:41.200 Yeah. 00:23:41.320 --> 00:23:42.240 I like that. 00:23:42.340 --> 00:23:47.100 It wouldn't break the current, current implementation, but you could make it more usable. 00:23:47.100 --> 00:23:47.800 I think so. 00:23:48.080 --> 00:23:48.460 Yeah, exactly. 00:23:48.520 --> 00:23:51.400 Just default the value to true on that, yeah. 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:52.360 Second parameter. 00:23:52.580 --> 00:23:53.960 So you don't have to set it. 00:23:54.020 --> 00:23:56.420 It doesn't break anything, but allow you to pass false. 00:23:56.560 --> 00:24:01.400 So if you, if it or anything like where it's truthness, truthiness has to be checked. 00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:06.620 Then it can be what it says it is because you might have a Sentinel for two different outcomes, right? 00:24:06.620 --> 00:24:07.900 That's plausible, I guess. 00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:09.720 Although it's not usually the way it's used. 00:24:10.060 --> 00:24:10.320 Yeah. 00:24:10.320 --> 00:24:17.020 But like a lot of, I mean, for Sentinels for, to mean I've like, I've got a big vector of stuff. 00:24:17.020 --> 00:24:20.260 I want to know if there's, if it's not filled out. 00:24:20.840 --> 00:24:23.900 yeah, I think the default should be false. 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:27.960 Primarily Sentinels are used in the case where something didn't work out right. 00:24:28.040 --> 00:24:30.980 Normally you get a value, but sometimes you get a special value. 00:24:30.980 --> 00:24:32.160 That means you couldn't get a value. 00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:33.240 That should be false. 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:33.720 I agree. 00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:34.260 Yeah. 00:24:34.340 --> 00:24:46.780 The, I guess the one part where I say, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's, it's going to be more readable because it's going to force you to say is missing or is, you know, not there or whatever your value is. 00:24:46.780 --> 00:24:48.680 But, I don't know. 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:50.320 I do like that. 00:24:50.380 --> 00:24:51.880 You don't have to do that with none. 00:24:52.040 --> 00:24:54.480 You can just say that it's just values false. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.020 I do like the, I like the idea. 00:24:56.120 --> 00:25:00.320 I think that maybe you should get on that whole PEP thing for, for extending that Michael won't you? 00:25:00.540 --> 00:25:00.720 Yeah. 00:25:00.780 --> 00:25:03.840 Before you scroll that screen, let me work on my second version of the pep. 00:25:05.100 --> 00:25:08.560 I, I somewhat dislike the truthiness, although I get it. 00:25:08.580 --> 00:25:18.600 And like, I'll just give a shout out to, the quirky out in the audience that I guess even the Sentinel is an object, which kind of makes it hard to be false, but like you can implement dunderbool, right? 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:19.820 So then you could do it. 00:25:19.820 --> 00:25:23.040 Empty strings are objects and they evaluate the false. 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:24.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:27.420 Like you can, there's a magic method to say false. 00:25:27.700 --> 00:25:30.800 They just return the value of the parameter that goes in when you created it, right? 00:25:30.820 --> 00:25:36.780 I think it's, it's like a five minute implementation and 47 hour, like documentation and negotiation afterwards. 00:25:38.380 --> 00:25:39.480 But here's the other one. 00:25:39.540 --> 00:25:40.640 I think this is more subtle. 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:50.380 There's an example saying like, how do I express in the type system that something might be of the value expect or the value that is the Sentinel. 00:25:50.760 --> 00:25:57.080 And this was much, I think this is a much more significant, probably not going to use this after all sort of thing in my mind. 00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:58.180 Let me set the stage. 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:12.480 If I have a function that returns none or integer, and I say X plus Y where X came from that function, my type checker will say, oh, you cannot plus that with another integer because none does 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:14.640 not allow addition with integer. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:19.820 So you can say, if is not none, X plus Y will work without the type checker failing. 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:23.680 But if you just say X plus Y types fall apart, it gets all upset. 00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:26.060 I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen here with Sentinels. 00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:31.760 Your type has to be, I return an int or missing or an int or the Sentinel. 00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:35.940 The Sentinel does not have type information based on an integer. 00:26:36.340 --> 00:26:39.020 And so any int operation on it will fail. 00:26:39.380 --> 00:26:40.720 And the type checker is going to warn. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:47.060 So you're going to have to add all of these, like, I know it said it was an int or a Sentinel, but it's not any longer. 00:26:47.180 --> 00:26:47.940 Now it's just an int. 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:57.280 And I feel like there's a lot of clumsiness that's going to go, go along with like trying to work with things that express themselves as int or Sentinel. 00:26:57.700 --> 00:27:02.120 So can we just add another, another type, another parameter to the creation? 00:27:02.120 --> 00:27:04.000 Like it's a Sentinel of int. 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:05.300 It's a Sentinel of... 00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:08.720 Yeah, but we're not going to get it for 3.15, but maybe we can get it later. 00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:09.360 No, no. 00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:18.760 I'm just saying like, wouldn't it be nice if you could have it also be the type so you don't have to express in the type system that it is something else? 00:27:19.040 --> 00:27:19.820 You know, I don't know. 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.500 To me, I think that's going to be, I think it's going to be rugged. 00:27:22.780 --> 00:27:23.660 I think it's going to be rugged. 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:24.640 So. 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:25.540 Yeah. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.800 I think we're, I think we're getting into like old man yells at cloud territory. 00:27:29.800 --> 00:27:31.980 So, we may have to move on. 00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:34.040 Cut me off, Ryan. 00:27:34.120 --> 00:27:34.600 I'm telling you. 00:27:34.760 --> 00:27:34.880 Yeah. 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:40.360 I told you I was going to be on like a type, a type, run this time, but no, I'm glad you covered it. 00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:41.240 Cause this is interesting. 00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:42.560 I love the idea of Sentinels. 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:43.200 I've used them. 00:27:43.320 --> 00:27:48.380 I haven't used them very much in Python, but I used them back in my C++ and C# days and I really liked them. 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:51.500 I think they provide a really interesting goal. 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:51.980 Yeah. 00:27:52.260 --> 00:27:52.440 Yep. 00:27:52.700 --> 00:27:53.860 do you have any extras? 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:54.440 Of course. 00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:55.000 Yeah. 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:55.400 You know what? 00:27:55.420 --> 00:27:57.020 I got some stuff to talk about. 00:27:57.400 --> 00:27:58.760 Let me swap it over. 00:27:58.760 --> 00:28:01.780 I didn't have any extras written down, but then I decided I have extras. 00:28:02.020 --> 00:28:09.900 So I haven't talked about this yet, but, if I go over at Talk Python training, I've done some cool stuff. 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:14.900 So no, there's so many, you, you warned me of this, pop out thing, Brian. 00:28:15.140 --> 00:28:16.460 I'm now starting to feel it. 00:28:16.460 --> 00:28:24.760 So over at, Talk Python training, we now have German subtitles for every single course for all 280 hours of courses. 00:28:24.760 --> 00:28:31.080 So like I'll, I pull up, Vincent Wormerdam's, LLM building blocks course. 00:28:31.320 --> 00:28:36.660 And now if I click on the CC, I get English, German, and this one even has Spanish. 00:28:36.800 --> 00:28:37.420 How about that? 00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:38.080 Nice. 00:28:38.380 --> 00:28:38.560 Yeah. 00:28:38.600 --> 00:28:42.260 So I could turn on like German transcripts and, you know, they're on the screen. 00:28:42.320 --> 00:28:43.280 Maybe those are too big. 00:28:43.280 --> 00:28:45.780 So I can make them a little smaller, put them up at the top. 00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:46.580 So they're not in the way. 00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:49.320 So I've done a ton of work on the transcripts over here. 00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:55.340 And now guess what Vincent's speaking German now, right? 00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:55.820 Let's go. 00:28:56.340 --> 00:29:03.460 So anyway, if, if you were a German speaker, check out the courses, and turn on the subtitles for German, if you like. 00:29:03.800 --> 00:29:15.900 I'm wondering how, like when we're going to have AI tools that can not just do different translations for subtitles, but can we get like dubbing in the original speaker's voice? 00:29:16.060 --> 00:29:16.780 That'd be cool. 00:29:17.040 --> 00:29:17.560 Hold that thought. 00:29:17.560 --> 00:29:18.800 All right. 00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:19.320 That's my extra. 00:29:19.620 --> 00:29:24.220 We have a German subtitles for all the courses that talk Python, all 280 hours. 00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:34.540 And I would just like to point, I said this in the blog post, but just to listen to 280 hours of audio is seven weeks, almost two months of work, not the translating, not the double 00:29:34.540 --> 00:29:42.540 checking just to listen to is seven weeks worth of work, 40 hours, you know, eight hours a day, five days a week sort of thing. 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:46.340 so that is a mega, mega project I've been working on. 00:29:46.340 --> 00:29:48.400 And you got a lot of courses up. 00:29:48.580 --> 00:29:49.580 I know it's crazy. 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.180 So I'm working through the Spanish ones. 00:29:51.300 --> 00:29:56.280 Now I've got maybe four courses converted over Spanish, but Spanish is going to be the next language. 00:29:56.280 --> 00:29:58.980 So don't feel left out Spanish speaking folks. 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:00.980 It's coming soon. 00:30:01.260 --> 00:30:01.360 Yeah. 00:30:01.620 --> 00:30:02.380 That's my extra. 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:02.920 All right. 00:30:03.060 --> 00:30:08.140 Well, I'm going to roll back to, we were talking about, what was it? 00:30:08.180 --> 00:30:13.960 It's not, the place, the non GitHub place that we had somebody at, anyway. 00:30:14.020 --> 00:30:14.320 Kudberg. 00:30:14.620 --> 00:30:15.040 Kudberg. 00:30:15.040 --> 00:30:15.360 Yeah. 00:30:15.840 --> 00:30:21.400 So, on that topic, Armin Ronecker, wrote an article about GitHub. 00:30:21.600 --> 00:30:30.380 So before, before GitHub, basically the, like it's talking about this, like we're at, we're at an inflection point, not sure where we're going to go forward. 00:30:30.380 --> 00:30:33.200 But before GitHub, it was a weird place. 00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:41.800 We had basically, source controls roll your own or do something wacky or, it was, it was a very different experience. 00:30:41.800 --> 00:30:44.400 So we're, and I have to agree. 00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:57.240 I am even at the state of GitHub right now, I'm still using it a lot and other things, but I also understand some of the gripes people have, there's political stuff and with AI and everything. 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:10.020 But aside from that and whether or not they should have been able to just steal everybody's content, or intellectual property, because open source does not mean please just, you know, train your AIs on it. 00:31:10.020 --> 00:31:23.680 But anyway, regardless of that, the, there's a, there's another, there's another aspect of it that the GitHub is really built around community building and collab getting as many collaborators as possible. 00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.360 And it doesn't often work that way. 00:31:26.360 --> 00:31:35.120 I mean, we often get a lot of people submitting issues and griping about things, but not a lot of people contributing actual good code contribute contributions. 00:31:35.620 --> 00:31:36.700 And it's even different. 00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:42.540 It's even worse now with a lot of people just submitting AI slop, as, as stuff. 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.980 So I totally get projects getting, moving away. 00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:49.940 So there's a interesting discussion about like, you know, GitHub is slow. 00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:51.640 GitHub is slowly dying. 00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:53.120 I don't think it's going to die. 00:31:53.260 --> 00:31:54.900 I think it'll stick around for a long time. 00:31:54.980 --> 00:32:00.820 And I think, for many years, it'll be still the dominant one, but there is some interesting shifts. 00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:09.420 at first there were like just a few people moving over or not a few, a lot of people moving over to Codeberg, but it was a smaller projects. 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:10.720 But now there's some bigger ones. 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:16.200 And, and one of the things that I'm grateful for is he brought up tenacity and I'm like, what's tenacity? 00:32:16.340 --> 00:32:17.360 I don't know what that is. 00:32:17.600 --> 00:32:26.880 And it's a, it's a total tangent for the topic, but it's a, cross platform, multi-track audio editor and recorder that I'd never heard of. 00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:28.200 And it looks pretty cool. 00:32:28.260 --> 00:32:29.860 So I might check that out. 00:32:29.900 --> 00:32:30.680 It's an open source thing. 00:32:30.820 --> 00:32:31.060 Anyway. 00:32:31.320 --> 00:32:32.140 Oh, that's very cool. 00:32:32.180 --> 00:32:36.880 I've used audacity and I bet it is a, a riff on audacity, right? 00:32:37.020 --> 00:32:38.200 But yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:32:38.540 --> 00:32:39.800 Now I'm definitely checking this out. 00:32:39.800 --> 00:32:40.300 This is cool. 00:32:40.600 --> 00:32:40.820 Yeah. 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:46.480 So I definitely want to check that out, even though I, I, I'm happy with my audio situation right now. 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:55.900 But anyway, the interesting thing around this that I, I, it's a, it's an interesting topic and it's not a really long article. 00:32:56.060 --> 00:33:09.680 One of the things he talks about really is when, if we go to Codeberg or other roll your own stuff and have source code, like all over the place, we do lose some things because even, even though you can clone, you can do things that conversations are less, we have less 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:14.240 conversations around, around issues around the direction of some projects. 00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:18.760 And if it goes away, if somebody deletes their repo, we lose all of that. 00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:23.120 so there's some archive possibly needed some history that would be helpful. 00:33:23.540 --> 00:33:27.380 anyway, interesting discussion around, around that here. 00:33:27.380 --> 00:33:28.420 So thanks, Armin. 00:33:28.700 --> 00:33:28.960 Yeah. 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.220 Very nice article, Armin. 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.140 And I've really appreciated his, his thought pieces and his writing over the last year or two. 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.000 So good job. 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:36.440 Yeah. 00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:36.480 Yeah. 00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:50.240 Also Hugo out in the audience said, Hey, don't forget Python 314.5 is now out with the new, which is actually the old GC and 315 beta one, the feature freezes out. 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:51.000 So yes. 00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:51.880 Thank you so much for that. 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:59.320 Like most notably the garbage collector GC has changed back to the full pausing one, not the incremental one. 00:33:59.520 --> 00:34:00.480 Everything old is new again. 00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:01.560 Yeah, exactly. 00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:02.380 Here we go. 00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:03.180 Back around. 00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:03.760 All right. 00:34:04.300 --> 00:34:05.540 tell us a joke. 00:34:05.540 --> 00:34:06.400 Ready for a joke. 00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:13.240 So, I've been thinking about like everybody's saying, Oh, like now that with AI and everything, I can write my own software. 00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:14.340 I don't need software engineers. 00:34:14.560 --> 00:34:16.820 So it reminded me of this XKCD. 00:34:17.020 --> 00:34:17.860 So I'm bringing this up. 00:34:18.080 --> 00:34:23.240 So it's a make it yourself, make it, make it, make it myself, XKCD. 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:28.000 And there's two people looking at a couple boxes and I'll just read it out to you. 00:34:28.040 --> 00:34:28.860 It's mostly text. 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.640 They want $80 for this. 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:45.580 I could make one myself for $10 in parts, an hour of work, a trip to the hardware store, another $30 for parts, another few hours of work, two more trips to the store for $20 more in parts, another hour to redo the first hour of work because I messed 00:34:45.580 --> 00:34:49.260 it up and $80 to buy this when the one I made breaks. 00:34:49.940 --> 00:34:52.600 So that is so true. 00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:54.580 It's a hundred percent true. 00:34:54.580 --> 00:34:55.060 Yeah. 00:34:55.060 --> 00:34:56.180 Yeah, exactly. 00:34:56.440 --> 00:35:00.880 And I don't, that's why I think this whole vibe coding thing, you know, there was the SaaS apocalypse. 00:35:01.220 --> 00:35:11.380 And I think that's going to be a very focused and very narrow impact because it's like, yeah, you can make it and you got to back it up and maintain it and run it and operationally and secure it. 00:35:11.500 --> 00:35:12.360 And you know what? 00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:13.700 Let's just let them run it for 10 bucks. 00:35:13.700 --> 00:35:14.140 Yeah. 00:35:14.260 --> 00:35:16.100 I think I'm, I'm hoping that it will drive. 00:35:16.240 --> 00:35:28.660 I mean, not the, I think it'll change the dynamics of how people make money about software, but I do think that I'm hoping we get more good SaaS out there and some of 00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:36.800 the, the, even if it's helped being made by AI, but the good ones will stick around even if they get, have to get really recoded. 00:35:37.180 --> 00:35:38.200 So yeah, indeed. 00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:38.720 All right. 00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:40.440 Well, thanks a lot for a great episode. 00:35:40.560 --> 00:35:41.740 Thanks everybody for listening. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:42.180 Yeah. 00:35:42.180 --> 00:35:42.580 Thanks. 00:35:42.720 --> 00:35:42.860 Bye. 00:35:43.700 --> 00:35:44.700 Bye.