WEBVTT 00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:05.180 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to earbuds. 00:00:05.310 --> 00:00:11.820 This is episode 492, recorded August 18th, 2026. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.170 --> 00:00:13.240 And I'm Calvin Hendryx-Parker. 00:00:13.520 --> 00:00:19.320 This episode is brought to you by Logfire. So thank you to Logfire from Pydantic. 00:00:19.820 --> 00:00:25.240 Check them out at pythonbytes.fm/logfire. It's about observability for your AI apps and 00:00:25.350 --> 00:00:29.320 beyond. Tell you more about them later. Connect with us on social, links on the website. 00:00:29.540 --> 00:00:30.700 Be part of the live show. 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:33.300 Check it out on the website, pythonbytes.fm. 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:34.040 It's live. 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:39.000 And we have a really cool newsletter that we send out mostly every week with all sorts of extras. 00:00:39.360 --> 00:00:40.720 So you can sign up there as well. 00:00:40.900 --> 00:00:43.780 Just visit the website, click the newsletter, do the thing. 00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:46.680 We'll keep it private and not abuse it. 00:00:47.040 --> 00:00:48.140 Speaking of abuse. 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:49.280 We're good people. 00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:49.920 You're good people. 00:00:50.220 --> 00:00:51.680 Let's make sure we keep people safe, Michael. 00:00:52.040 --> 00:00:52.440 Exactly. 00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:54.840 Sometimes you can have nice things on the internet. 00:00:55.180 --> 00:00:55.600 That's true. 00:00:55.820 --> 00:01:01.440 And well, the good thing is that with the solar eclipse in Europe last week, a new release came 00:01:01.460 --> 00:01:10.640 out of some security updates for Python 3.12, 3.11, and 3.10. The key bit here, well, there's a lot of 00:01:10.700 --> 00:01:15.380 key bits, which is there's lots of security updates that have happened. They're pretty important if 00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:21.079 you're doing certain kinds of activities. So for example, if you are using tar files to, if you're 00:01:21.020 --> 00:01:25.720 extracting tar files with any of these versions of Python, you are going to want to update ASAP 00:01:26.420 --> 00:01:33.000 because this basically fixed a path traversal bypass of the data filter. So a symlink escape 00:01:33.210 --> 00:01:38.420 that could bypass bits and pieces here and get people access to places they're not supposed to be. 00:01:39.020 --> 00:01:43.720 Kind of important. Now the important bit here is that this is only a source release, 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:50.240 is a source release only. If you want to upgrade to these versions of Python, the 3.12.14, 3.11.16, 00:01:50.940 --> 00:01:57.640 and 3.10.21, you are going to have to download the source tarball or patch your existing build 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:02.120 process to get these released into your production environments. But if you are on these versions, 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.500 you're going to want to get those things patched. I mean, it's nice that these are in security only 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:10.340 fixed mode. There's not a binary version. I have to use this. There is not a binary version of 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:15.799 these been released. These are in security fix only mode. I mean, hopefully you're getting into 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:22.220 Python 3.13 and 3.14 as they are the current releases. It's nice that the community supports 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:26.980 these versions that far back. I don't know when 3.10 was released, but it was quite a while ago. 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:32.440 And you've got to be able to stay on top of these. This is in your hands now. This is kind of more 00:02:32.500 --> 00:02:38.180 of a do-it-yourself, but at least the fixes are available. So tar file is a big one. There are 00:02:38.580 --> 00:02:45.019 four fresh CVEs that are being covered by these fixes here. One of them is for the sourceless 00:02:45.040 --> 00:02:52.360 file loader. The other one is the cookies morsel, which there's basically a couple of fixes there 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:59.400 on that. And then the ftp lib ftp cp. So there's also a bunch of denial of service type fixes, 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:07.520 some cleanups in HTML parser, config parser, Unicode data normalize, element tree XPath bits. 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.660 There's some header injection fixes. Again, just lots of cleanups around the edges. 00:03:14.100 --> 00:03:18.260 Michael, have you ever used the web browser module from the standard library? 00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:20.900 I'm learning now there's a web browser module. 00:03:21.090 --> 00:03:22.700 There is a web browser module. 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:24.580 It allows you to pop a web browser. 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:25.500 That's pretty handy. 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:27.920 I've used it for a couple like little demo-y type things, 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:30.920 but there was a allowed control character in there 00:03:30.950 --> 00:03:34.060 that would have caused an action prefix bypass. 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:37.260 So if folks were sneaky and knew those things existed, 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:40.260 they could basically jump in and bypass some of these security controls. 00:03:40.860 --> 00:03:49.080 The HTTP client also now caps chunked trailer lines and the 100 responses to 100 each. 00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:53.620 So a hostile server could previously hang a client, even if you had a socket timeout in place. 00:03:54.040 --> 00:03:56.620 So lots of memory safety stuff, lots of other little cleanups. 00:03:56.740 --> 00:03:59.560 Again, it's a pretty sweeping set of security fixes. 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:02.840 And they chose to release it now because it's as good a time as any. 00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:07.280 There's no set schedule for these specific releases on these older versions of Python. 00:04:08.060 --> 00:04:08.700 Excuse me. 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:15.060 But it's good we've got people watching our backs and making sure we stay secure out there. 00:04:15.660 --> 00:04:17.579 Like I say, you can go look at the release notes. 00:04:17.880 --> 00:04:19.100 There's a ton of fixes in here. 00:04:19.299 --> 00:04:22.800 It's a really long set of releases and fixes that went into us. 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:28.420 Thanks to all the Python core devs and volunteers and people submitting patches. 00:04:28.780 --> 00:04:34.280 I'm sure some of this stuff probably came out of the new models that are able to detect these kinds of pieces. 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:37.720 But obviously, humans are putting the pieces into place. 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:39.420 So go be safe out there, Michael. 00:04:40.880 --> 00:04:41.740 And upgrade your Pythons. 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:42.320 This is always something I'm worried about. 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:43.260 Yeah, I mean. 00:04:43.580 --> 00:04:44.560 Upgrade your Python, please. 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:48.340 Here's also one of those reasons why I kind of want to stay on top. 00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:48.960 Yeah. 00:04:49.180 --> 00:04:51.080 Of having a fairly new version. 00:04:51.370 --> 00:04:52.840 And I'll be like, oh, we're not going to touch it. 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:54.840 And hey, it's 3.8, but it works. 00:04:55.280 --> 00:04:59.640 It's like, yeah, but when this kind of jump, this stuff comes out of the blue, 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:03.220 you're all of a sudden scrambling to get your app to run rather than just a point release. 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:03.860 Yeah. 00:05:04.440 --> 00:05:10.000 It's hard to argue for the old stance of like, well, just because it works, it should just stay in production. 00:05:10.080 --> 00:05:20.860 Or even if it's behind a firewall or behind some kind of level of protections, we've seen that these models can now chain together multiple vulnerabilities to get access to spaces they weren't supposed to get access to. 00:05:21.260 --> 00:05:25.640 All that's required at this point is setting good goals for the agentic AI tools. 00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:33.520 And they can get around a lot of things if they're given unfettered access, even not unfettered access, even if they're sandboxed in, they could still do this. 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:35.920 So keep up to date. 00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:41.420 Again, this is a reason for staying on the latest released version of Python. 00:05:42.180 --> 00:05:43.980 But the community does support back patches. 00:05:44.460 --> 00:05:45.520 You just got to go build them yourself. 00:05:45.980 --> 00:05:47.700 I'll have more on that later on the building. 00:05:48.380 --> 00:05:48.720 Maybe. 00:05:50.900 --> 00:05:52.520 So yes, but maybe. 00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:53.080 Maybe. 00:05:53.330 --> 00:05:53.700 What do you got? 00:05:53.780 --> 00:05:58.440 My favorite way to install Python is uv Python. 00:05:58.780 --> 00:05:59.120 No kidding. 00:05:59.300 --> 00:05:59.900 Install, right? 00:06:00.960 --> 00:06:03.220 And a quick, I just upgraded it. 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:04.320 You got to upgrade to get the latest. 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:05.200 It's just kind of odd. 00:06:05.200 --> 00:06:05.500 It doesn't. 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:06.940 Oh, they've got someone's got built. 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:07.300 It does. 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:09.360 3.11.16. 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:12.100 And 3.12.14. 00:06:12.510 --> 00:06:15.200 That looks like they've packaged it into Python build standalone. 00:06:15.700 --> 00:06:16.160 That's nice. 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:19.060 Well, it's good to see the astral folks have got our back. 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:20.380 Yes, obviously. 00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:21.920 Like that's a theme, right? 00:06:22.200 --> 00:06:22.960 It's definitely a theme. 00:06:23.250 --> 00:06:23.840 Well, there you go. 00:06:24.740 --> 00:06:24.960 Go. 00:06:25.260 --> 00:06:30.140 Well, if you're on this older version of Python, you might need to just go upgrade to uv at 00:06:30.140 --> 00:06:32.280 this point and save yourself some headache. 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:32.900 Yeah. 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:33.500 Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:34.230 --> 00:06:38.260 You could technically just use uv to manage your Python and still, I don't know. 00:06:38.280 --> 00:06:39.340 Yeah, you don't need it. 00:06:39.490 --> 00:06:42.460 You don't necessarily, yeah, you can do the rest of the way you're currently doing it. 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:42.820 Right. 00:06:43.190 --> 00:06:46.320 But if you're going to jump in there, you might as well modernize and fix. 00:06:46.460 --> 00:06:47.120 You're already in there. 00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:48.180 You're already doing it. 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:49.320 You're already in there. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:50.300 Okay. 00:06:51.100 --> 00:06:57.540 Speaking of, you gave a quick shout out to give an AI agent some kind of go find bugs. 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:59.140 And I 100% agree. 00:06:59.150 --> 00:07:02.700 You and I both likened to this to running a lender for the first time. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:04.060 And you're like, there's a thousand errors. 00:07:04.130 --> 00:07:05.100 Oh my God, it's so much. 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:07.060 Right, so stay on top of these things. 00:07:07.280 --> 00:07:11.520 But these tools are causing some places a ripple, 00:07:12.570 --> 00:07:14.580 other places a tidal wave. 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:17.400 And Codeberg is one of those places that, 00:07:17.770 --> 00:07:20.520 I don't know, like, I'm not sure how to feel about Codeberg. 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:23.340 I, in principle, like it, 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.380 but I think people want Codeberg to be more 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.380 than Codeberg wants to be, let's say that. 00:07:28.660 --> 00:07:29.660 What the heck is Codeberg? 00:07:29.780 --> 00:07:30.720 Codeberg isn't 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:31.280 What is Codeberg? 00:07:32.080 --> 00:07:35.000 It is a GitHub alternative, let's say. 00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:35.380 Okay. 00:07:35.760 --> 00:07:38.560 Evolved out of previous attempts to create a GitHub alternative. 00:07:38.830 --> 00:07:46.060 It's a nonprofit community-led effort with a democratic process that provides services to free and open source projects, 00:07:46.550 --> 00:07:50.340 such as Git hosting using 4Gio, Pages, CI/CD, and so on. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.940 So it's already got this restriction like, hey, it's only for free and open source stuff. 00:07:55.160 --> 00:08:00.360 It's not for just general paid software, private repos, and so on, right? 00:08:00.640 --> 00:08:00.820 Fine. 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:04.100 So that's kind of its mission, and that's what it is. 00:08:04.330 --> 00:08:06.520 But a lot of people are looking at GitHub going, 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:08.640 I mean, just yesterday GitHub was down. 00:08:08.740 --> 00:08:12.240 I'm like, oh, man, I guess I'll try this PR again in a half hour 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:14.260 because it couldn't load the PR stuff, 00:08:14.370 --> 00:08:15.600 and then I just got the unicorn, 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:17.620 which kind of feels like it's supposed to be amazing, 00:08:17.750 --> 00:08:18.640 but it's a bad unicorn. 00:08:19.760 --> 00:08:21.940 Should have like a leather jacket and be smoking or something. 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:22.260 I don't know. 00:08:22.280 --> 00:08:24.500 I know, kind of the fail whale of GitHub. 00:08:25.180 --> 00:08:25.660 Yes, exactly. 00:08:25.910 --> 00:08:28.380 And there might be people out there that don't know the fail whale, 00:08:28.540 --> 00:08:31.240 but oh my gosh, that Twitter went down bad in the beginning. 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:32.800 Yeah, so it's like the fail wheel. 00:08:32.900 --> 00:08:33.340 Early days. 00:08:33.479 --> 00:08:35.120 But right now, I just pulled this up 00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:37.500 into the top of the Codeberg page. 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:38.780 Time recording. 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:40.580 Yeah, the number two is interesting. 00:08:42.219 --> 00:08:43.680 There's just like, there's stuff we don't want here. 00:08:44.219 --> 00:08:45.140 And we don't approve of it, 00:08:45.260 --> 00:08:46.380 and it needs to get the heck out. 00:08:46.520 --> 00:08:49.160 Even if it is free and open source, 00:08:49.380 --> 00:08:50.960 it still needs to get the heck out, okay? 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:53.000 So I feel like this was just, 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:54.480 there's stuff we don't like, let's get it out. 00:08:55.040 --> 00:08:56.859 And the number two you pointed out and laughed at 00:08:56.880 --> 00:08:59.540 is like cryptocurrency projects are no longer allowed. 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:00.700 And like, you know, I'm fine with that. 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:01.660 Like, whatever. 00:09:01.920 --> 00:09:02.560 Okay, okay. 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.400 If that's your mission to just not have that kind of stuff, 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:06.520 I'm here for it. 00:09:06.560 --> 00:09:07.780 Like cryptocurrency is weird. 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:09.960 I'm not 100% against it, but it's just 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:11.280 I'm not either. 00:09:11.280 --> 00:09:12.680 So that's why I thought it was kind of weird. 00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:14.520 There's definitely some opinions here 00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:16.720 that had a thought process going on behind them 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.220 that we're not seeing the full story. 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:20.820 I guess we can go view the full change, but 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:23.140 Yeah, but this first one is quite weird. 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:26.180 It says LLM generated content is being restricted. 00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:33.860 More specifically, if you have a project that they somehow decide they believe it is majority LLM, banned. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:41.760 Even if it has been here for a long time, it has gotten a lot of attention and a lot of maybe even wrote it by hand to start. 00:09:41.810 --> 00:09:45.000 But then you do some mega refactoring that touches every file. 00:09:45.220 --> 00:09:45.420 Banned. 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:47.840 So you may like that. 00:09:47.850 --> 00:09:48.480 You may not. 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:49.320 It's extreme. 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:55.340 It seems a little extreme given that we just recently covered Linus Torvalds saying like, 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.700 look, using AI to review our stuff is a tool. 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:01.280 It feels a bit myopic to me. 00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:03.280 And fine, like I said, this is their project. 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:05.260 They can do it, but people have thoughts. 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:07.280 People have a lot of thoughts. 00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:08.820 Wait, Armin has a thought? 00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:10.120 Could you imagine? 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:11.300 Armin Roniker has a thought. 00:10:11.820 --> 00:10:15.420 And he wrote, and the reason a lot of people have thoughts is they were like, 00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:19.160 I would just love a GitHub alternative, like for different reasons. 00:10:19.300 --> 00:10:21.580 Some people are just like, I don't like the way GitHub works. 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:22.940 It's been down a lot. 00:10:23.180 --> 00:10:25.480 Other people are like, I want a European company, 00:10:25.800 --> 00:10:30.380 not just an American company to kind of be a first-class player in this space. 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:30.620 Right. 00:10:31.020 --> 00:10:33.740 And whatever, like all of those people are like, 00:10:34.100 --> 00:10:35.320 but Codeberg is now broken. 00:10:35.520 --> 00:10:36.100 So that's out. 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:37.940 And that was my hope, right? 00:10:38.040 --> 00:10:40.260 Like Obi-Wan, you're my only hope. 00:10:40.580 --> 00:10:42.420 Oh, Obi-Wan doesn't like all of them content. 00:10:42.520 --> 00:10:43.320 Well, I guess he's out. 00:10:44.140 --> 00:10:48.220 Anyway, so Armin wrote an article called Codeberg Divides. 00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:51.140 And so they changed their terms of service, as I said. 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.220 They're entirely within the rights to do this. 00:10:53.640 --> 00:10:54.780 It's a democratic process. 00:10:55.300 --> 00:10:58.980 But democracies don't inherently make good decisions. 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:00.560 That's what I'm saying, right? 00:11:00.940 --> 00:11:05.160 So GitHub's never been democratic, and there's plenty not to like. 00:11:05.260 --> 00:11:09.080 But as a core piece of infrastructure, it's been reliable, right? 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:10.520 So I don't know. 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:13.020 How do you even enforce this majority? 00:11:13.640 --> 00:11:36.340 Like I said, if I have a project, let's say a web app that uses some CSS front end, and I ask AI to change the CSS front end around, even though I wrote all the code, all the back end, in the diff perspective, chances are it's going to overwhelm the back end amount of code if I have to have it rewrite every bit of HTML because it's grid versus flex box versus whatever. 00:11:36.340 --> 00:11:42.580 This is groundwork stuff that the AIs can be directed very easily to take care of for us as humans. 00:11:43.140 --> 00:11:47.340 Yeah, and so here's sort of the thoughts. 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:49.820 It's a real shame that open source and free software communities 00:11:49.850 --> 00:11:53.180 are splitting this deeply over LLM and agents. 00:11:55.300 --> 00:12:00.020 We all already acknowledge copyright issues, energy use, 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:01.240 those kinds of things. 00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:03.840 But it's also just how software is being made, right? 00:12:03.910 --> 00:12:06.560 And people need to, projects are going to need to figure out 00:12:06.560 --> 00:12:07.220 how to coexist. 00:12:08.560 --> 00:12:12.160 And yeah, if you want GitHub to face true competition, 00:12:12.760 --> 00:12:13.420 This is not it. 00:12:13.540 --> 00:12:14.860 Yeah, this is not going to work. 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:16.340 Michael, I got an idea. 00:12:16.900 --> 00:12:17.100 Okay. 00:12:17.260 --> 00:12:21.200 We're going to do a blockchain project to host a GitHub alternative 00:12:21.760 --> 00:12:24.220 that is a distributed autonomous organization. 00:12:24.760 --> 00:12:27.000 And it's going to have like smart contracts and rules. 00:12:27.300 --> 00:12:28.540 We're going completely the other direction. 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:32.280 You're making my ears hurt just a little bit with that word. 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:35.520 So what about this? 00:12:35.540 --> 00:12:39.040 What if we go back a little further and we can like do a sweet arc? 00:12:39.280 --> 00:12:42.060 Like what if we do like a BitTorrent hosted, 00:12:42.920 --> 00:12:44.220 smart contract backed? 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.660 Even more, like the layers go deep. 00:12:47.780 --> 00:12:50.620 So, you know, the decentralization aspect 00:12:50.870 --> 00:12:52.740 of BitTorrent totally makes sense here. 00:12:52.790 --> 00:12:53.880 I think we could make this go. 00:12:54.140 --> 00:12:55.540 No, we could totally make it go. 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.160 All right, so that was Armand's thought. 00:12:58.160 --> 00:12:59.480 I wish this was more forward looking 00:12:59.650 --> 00:13:00.940 in a place that we could depend on 00:13:01.210 --> 00:13:02.260 rather than a place that divides 00:13:02.390 --> 00:13:04.220 and just kicks a bunch of people up. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.240 Now, one of the reasons I'm sure they did this is, 00:13:07.640 --> 00:13:10.160 well, these AI things use 20 times as much resources. 00:13:10.580 --> 00:13:10.760 Yeah. 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:11.100 Yeah. 00:13:11.450 --> 00:13:11.560 Okay. 00:13:11.690 --> 00:13:16.600 So I just searched for the terms to see kind of Codeberg terms, 00:13:16.710 --> 00:13:17.840 and I came up with this website. 00:13:19.580 --> 00:13:22.780 The domain is amazing, but it says... 00:13:22.860 --> 00:13:23.140 Oh, wow. 00:13:23.660 --> 00:13:26.300 I asked literally just for the terms of service of Codeberg, 00:13:26.520 --> 00:13:27.940 and the first thing that comes up is, 00:13:28.060 --> 00:13:30.040 I regret migrating to Codeberg. 00:13:30.740 --> 00:13:34.220 And this is actually a really interesting and well-thought-out article. 00:13:34.660 --> 00:13:37.019 So this person just recently left GitHub 00:13:37.040 --> 00:13:39.120 and moved all their projects over here because they're like, 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.380 ah, GitHub is kind of getting clunky, 00:13:41.800 --> 00:13:44.600 and I have just pure open source and so on. 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.160 So GitHub looked like a viable alternative, 00:13:47.310 --> 00:13:50.400 which is like this is the main spine running through this conversation. 00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:56.420 So unfortunately, the latest update to its terms of service 00:13:56.640 --> 00:14:00.200 seemed to mark the first step in changing one part I moved there for, 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.140 namely freedom, is now gone. 00:14:02.330 --> 00:14:03.180 I can't work on it. 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:05.100 And one of the interesting things about this term, 00:14:05.300 --> 00:14:07.820 I'll move on from this section in just a second. 00:14:08.060 --> 00:14:10.300 But from their terms, 00:14:10.420 --> 00:14:12.880 is the content that harms the reputation of CodeBerg, 00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:14.680 which is like, we don't have a great reason for it. 00:14:15.060 --> 00:14:16.840 And one of the criteria they use 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.040 is it has to have a community behind it 00:14:19.340 --> 00:14:20.980 in order for it to be legit. 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.260 And LLMs and AI don't make community, right? 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:26.340 It seems like from the blog post, 00:14:26.420 --> 00:14:28.180 it seems like many vibe coders don't realize 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.140 that they don't actually have a community around them. 00:14:31.300 --> 00:14:32.800 And I think that that cuts at two things. 00:14:33.060 --> 00:14:40.020 One, casting all of this stuff as vibe coders and just junk users who don't really know what they're doing. 00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:42.060 That's already kind of a... 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:46.120 There's a valid practice of agentic engineering in producing software. 00:14:46.580 --> 00:14:46.740 Yes. 00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:54.100 And this seems to lump it all in with like, oh, it's a bunch of these idiots that don't know what they're doing and we want them off our community. 00:14:55.320 --> 00:15:00.660 Sounds like a bunch of people who were against the stuff two years ago and have never tried it. 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:03.380 don't realize the effect it has. 00:15:03.400 --> 00:15:04.720 But so just wrapping this up, 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:05.480 this person says, look, 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:08.860 I have a bunch of solo developer 00:15:09.640 --> 00:15:10.340 open source projects. 00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:11.800 And my community is people 00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:13.620 who just ask for features 00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:15.440 or ask me to change something. 00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:16.920 They're just people 00:15:16.920 --> 00:15:18.300 who want something from the software. 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:19.720 They're not really a community 00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:21.700 with rich discussions, right? 00:15:21.940 --> 00:15:22.800 And so 00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:24.560 I agree with this person's take on, 00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:26.740 like, it's a bunch of little tools 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:27.920 that are my tools 00:15:27.920 --> 00:15:29.280 and I need a good place to host them. 00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:30.319 And I want to share them 00:15:30.540 --> 00:15:31.440 with my little community. 00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:32.960 Yeah, like I've been publishing 00:15:33.580 --> 00:15:34.560 silly little tool for decades. 00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.860 And that was from even the SourceForge days, right? 00:15:38.420 --> 00:15:40.380 This is the essence of like open source, 00:15:40.540 --> 00:15:41.600 the cathedral and the bazaar, 00:15:41.740 --> 00:15:43.340 like that whole bit. 00:15:43.660 --> 00:15:44.060 Exactly. 00:15:44.420 --> 00:15:47.460 And so one of the reasons CodeBurg is blocking LLMs 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.700 is because they think there can't be a community 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:50.920 and therefore it's a fake project. 00:15:51.060 --> 00:15:52.780 This guy's like, I got a bunch of projects 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:53.520 that don't have community, 00:15:53.580 --> 00:15:54.400 but they're important to me. 00:15:54.940 --> 00:15:56.540 And I think that's actually the majority. 00:15:57.780 --> 00:15:59.220 This results in censorship for me. 00:15:59.260 --> 00:16:08.540 But the same thing is, what if you just charged for the ones or had a very high or very strong rate limit for interactions? 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:17.560 And if your AI does too much to burden our infrastructure, well, then, you know, maybe you cover that or you move them over to a portion of infrastructure that's even slower. 00:16:17.900 --> 00:16:18.460 Right. I don't know. 00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:22.180 But there's a whole lot of concrete ideas from this. 00:16:22.570 --> 00:16:23.860 I regret moving to Kudberg. 00:16:24.940 --> 00:16:25.140 Anyway. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:30.380 It's amazing that was the first post, like first result for a valid search for their terms of service. 00:16:31.460 --> 00:16:35.340 I know, that's a strong own goal right there. 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:36.480 Speaks volumes right there. 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:38.660 Well, the others are going to emerge. 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:48.020 Obviously, the fact that we still live in an open world with a fairly open internet, people can build their distributed blockchain DAO version of GitHub if they want. 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:50.100 Well, I'm looking forward to setting up. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.140 We should build on Codeberg. 00:16:54.780 --> 00:16:55.500 Oh my gosh. 00:16:55.890 --> 00:16:56.020 Okay. 00:16:56.520 --> 00:16:56.920 All right, sorry. 00:16:58.020 --> 00:17:00.300 That was a bit of a detour. 00:17:01.800 --> 00:17:02.860 A fun detour. 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:06.780 But let me tell you about our sponsor, actually. 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:07.439 You should. 00:17:07.709 --> 00:17:08.480 I think this is important. 00:17:09.300 --> 00:17:11.199 Yeah, because there's some really cool stuff 00:17:11.620 --> 00:17:14.439 that Logfire from Pydantic is doing. 00:17:15.890 --> 00:17:19.240 And this is a bit of an alternative worldview, 00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:22.020 one that I definitely agree with. 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:33.940 But Logfire is about monitoring and observing and understanding what your AI agents and other web apps like FastAPI and Postgres and so on are up to. 00:17:34.060 --> 00:17:35.640 So it's 2 a.m. 00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:37.600 Your AI agent has failed. 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:38.480 Why? 00:17:38.800 --> 00:17:40.620 Was it the model, a tool called the database? 00:17:41.340 --> 00:17:46.500 Most observability tools can't tell you because they only see part of your stack, like your web stack or something. 00:17:46.860 --> 00:17:48.500 Pydantic Logfire sees all of it. 00:17:48.760 --> 00:17:51.860 One trace across your agents, LLMs, APIs, and database. 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.260 Down to the infrastructure, services, Kubernetes, and hosts. 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:59.720 It's built on open telemetry with SDKs for Python, TypeScript, and Rust. 00:18:00.230 --> 00:18:02.880 And it works with any OTEL-compatible language. 00:18:03.340 --> 00:18:07.960 Every prompt, token count, cost right next to your vector searches and API calls. 00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:12.680 You query everything with Postgres-compatible SQL. 00:18:13.320 --> 00:18:18.100 And you give that to your coding agent through the Logfire MCP. 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.280 So stop guessing, read the trace, Identic Logfire. 00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:24.000 AI is still just engineering, as we said. 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:28.640 So visit pythonbytes.fm/Logfire today and sign up. 00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:31.780 You'll get 10 million records for free every month, no credit card expired. 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:34.740 And this is a pretty cool thing as well. 00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:38.820 I need to add Logfire to my app so that I get this cool feature. 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:39.480 How do you do it? 00:18:39.600 --> 00:18:47.320 They have a button that'll copy some markdown text to your clipboard and you click it and it says onboard your coding agent. 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:54.760 So it just gives you instructions you can hand to Claude or Codex specifically what it needs to do to integrate your app with Logfire. 00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:55.920 So I think that's super cool. 00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:00.680 So thank you to Pydantic and Logfire for supporting the show. 00:19:00.980 --> 00:19:07.120 Actually, I love the idea of the observability of grabbing the prompts and the costs and the token usage. 00:19:07.540 --> 00:19:10.780 more folks are going to be heading down this route because it's been very hard to 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.180 analyze the return on investment of using these tools. 00:19:14.420 --> 00:19:19.120 And as the costs potentially rise and subscriptions maybe shift and go away, 00:19:19.540 --> 00:19:21.740 you're going to want to know this kind of data to make good decisions. 00:19:22.020 --> 00:19:23.320 We're doing this right now at Six Feet Up. 00:19:23.540 --> 00:19:24.200 Are you? Awesome. 00:19:24.560 --> 00:19:27.000