WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:11.080 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. This is episode 493, recorded on Tuesday, August 25th, 2026. I'm Calvin Hendricks 00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:21.720 Parker. And I'm Michael Kennedy. Hey, Michael. Glad for you to be here. We are sponsored this episode by Logfire from Pydantic, so make sure you check them out. There are links in the show notes. 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:33.300 If you want to connect with Michael and I on the socials and the show itself, you can catch us on Mastodon, Bluesky, X, and LinkedIn. And join us for the live stream. Each week we record this live, 00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:46.460 you can join in, comment, be a part of the audience at pythonbytes.fm/live. It's usually Tuesday at 7 a.m. Pacific. It's a little different, but because of DjangoCon. And finally, if you want an 00:00:46.680 --> 00:01:01.060 artisanal handcrafted digest of every week's show notes in your email form, add your name to our friends of the show list and we'll never share it to anyone else michael let's dig in uh i think we got a web heavy episode except for one item in here and you're going to kick off with one right 00:01:01.120 --> 00:01:12.340 now yeah i'm going to put it in reverse or race mode if you know the british radio joke yeah well first of all hello Django con thank you for the greetings and uh calvin you're reporting live from 00:01:12.520 --> 00:01:27.500 jango con yeah i am live from jigger i am in the hotel of Django con here in downtown chicago we are in the loop. So those of you who know Chicago area, right on the river, it has been a great conference. This is day two. We've had some excellent keynotes. Don Wages, Sarah from the 00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:39.360 Django community gave some excellent keynotes each day. And there's been some lightning talks are also one of my favorite things. So a couple rounds of lightning talks have already happened, one of which you're going to cover as part of one of your news items. So there's a lot of Django news 00:01:40.100 --> 00:01:45.720 actually in this episode included. So it's very timely that DjangoCon is happening right now and and lots that's happening in the community. 00:01:46.020 --> 00:01:48.980 Yeah, we've got a couple of Django topics actually. 00:01:49.100 --> 00:01:50.600 You did say it's a web heavy episode, right? 00:01:50.820 --> 00:01:52.400 It is, except for my one outlier. 00:01:52.740 --> 00:01:53.400 We'll get to that. 00:01:53.500 --> 00:01:54.620 We'll get to that one. 00:01:54.940 --> 00:01:56.700 Right, well, let's talk about the first one. 00:01:56.880 --> 00:02:00.000 So this is, I ran across this for something called Traefik. 00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:00.900 Are you familiar with Traefik? 00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:02.220 I am familiar with Traefik. 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:16.760 Yeah, so Traefik is, it's a reverse proxy like Nginx or Caddy, but it's a little more focused on microservices and like I've got a Kubernetes cluster and stuff is coming and going, and maybe it's recycled and now it's in a different location 00:02:16.910 --> 00:02:18.520 in terms of an internal URL. 00:02:18.810 --> 00:02:21.400 And so it's gonna like find those pieces and put it together. 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:24.940 So I ran across this thing called Traefik Manager. 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.680 Are you familiar with Traefik Manager? 00:02:27.100 --> 00:02:28.260 I'm not familiar with Traefik Manager. 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:29.360 So I don't know about you. 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.500 Yeah, anyone who's ever used Kubernetes is using some kind of reverse proxy. 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:34.300 Yeah, this would be, yeah, exactly. 00:02:34.390 --> 00:02:36.420 I think Traefik might be the most popular for that. 00:02:37.220 --> 00:02:39.080 It's not the one we're using for Python Bytes. 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:41.400 I'll say a bit more about that in a second, but yeah. 00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:46.820 So this Traefik manager is a visualization dashboard for your Traefik server. 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:54.880 And if Traefik is your front end server, your reverse proxy, whatever you call it, it is the one choke point that all Traefik is going through. 00:02:54.880 --> 00:02:57.540 So it's a really good place to report on how things are going. 00:02:57.580 --> 00:03:00.200 Of course, besides CDNs, which are, you know, their own deal. 00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:06.540 But this is a really nice looking UI that you can, it gives you all sorts of information. 00:03:07.180 --> 00:03:09.820 How many requests, how many routes do you got? 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:11.140 How many services is it serving? 00:03:11.860 --> 00:03:13.280 What's the Traefik? 00:03:13.660 --> 00:03:14.980 What media are you hosting? 00:03:15.980 --> 00:03:16.780 What else we got? 00:03:17.140 --> 00:03:21.260 Route map, logs, CrowdSec for security, I presume, 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:22.600 TLS options, certificates. 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:23.940 All of that. 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:28.080 You can just see this live as a web dashboard over top of your infrastructure. 00:03:28.230 --> 00:03:28.840 It's really slick. 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:30.140 I think that's pretty slick, right? 00:03:30.170 --> 00:03:30.520 What do you think? 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:44.600 I think having that available just at your fingertips to be able to diagnose, triage, understand patterns, especially when something goes wrong, having more bandwidth of data coming in as the human making some decisions is better and this 00:03:44.670 --> 00:03:56.200 looks wonderful for that yeah it looks great and it shows you how to run it just as an installer but also on docker podman and like on bare metal Linux and so on yeah it's you can even edit like static 00:03:56.380 --> 00:04:05.499 files and a few other things so i think this is pretty cool so i saw that i thought oh let me cover this i'm like well and i looked into Traefik a little bit and Traefik is great for a certain 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:11.780 class of problems, the ones I described at the opening, but it's not a true just front end thing. 00:04:12.660 --> 00:04:27.100 Like for example, it doesn't serve static files at all, right? Or certain things. So it's like a little bit, you can, a lot of people could use it, but not everybody. Well, what are the other options? Well, the other options are Nginx, right? Which is what we use for Python bytes. I have an 00:04:27.440 --> 00:04:40.060 insane amount of Nginx config files. There are 2,200 lines of Nginx config powering 33 containers on my server oh my goodness i'm a little committed to nginx at this point and unlike many other 00:04:40.300 --> 00:04:50.000 things you can't run another server like Traefik or caddy which i'm going to talk about next to it because they all need port 80 like you can't even set up tls until you can get to you know what i 00:04:50.100 --> 00:04:55.800 mean like it's uh so it's a really hard cut over basically is what i'm saying so right now i'm 00:04:55.940 --> 00:05:01.940 sticking with nginx and like well is there something like this for nginx because that is a full on front end story, right? 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.920 So I will introduce you to Nginx UI. 00:05:05.580 --> 00:05:06.820 Guess is how you would pronounce it? 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:08.720 Yet another Nginx web UI. 00:05:09.200 --> 00:05:09.620 There's others. 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:10.760 It's not the only one. 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:12.320 Yes, it's not the only one, no. 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.360 But you can go to the demo, which is very confusing 'cause it just takes you here and says, you gotta log in. 00:05:16.380 --> 00:05:17.760 I'm like, huh, what do you think that's about? 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:19.400 Go back to the page that took you the demo. 00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:20.500 Where's the username and password? 00:05:20.840 --> 00:05:21.900 Nah, but I'm a hacker. 00:05:22.300 --> 00:05:24.280 I didn't know if that told you in my spare time. 00:05:25.180 --> 00:05:26.040 Admin, admin, admin. 00:05:26.500 --> 00:05:29.760 You may be a hacker too because let's see if that gets us in. 00:05:29.880 --> 00:05:30.400 Sure enough. 00:05:30.900 --> 00:05:32.160 Sure enough, login successful. 00:05:32.870 --> 00:05:33.280 There we go. 00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:36.260 So this is actually even better than the Traefik one, I think. 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:37.780 So it shows you stuff about your server. 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:42.100 This is your Linux machine running, or Docker machine, running Nginx. 00:05:42.520 --> 00:05:47.400 The CPU stats, network stats, disc IO, all that kind of, which is really cool, right? 00:05:47.700 --> 00:05:58.640 Then you get over to Nginx and it shows you the max number of requests per second you can handle, the max concurrent connections, the request per connection, which is like these are just like kind of stats. 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:01.540 And it shows you where the process is working. 00:06:01.650 --> 00:06:06.400 Is it cache processes, worker process, et cetera, alive connections, all this stuff. 00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:07.020 That's really cool. 00:06:07.270 --> 00:06:08.280 It lets you manage your sites. 00:06:08.330 --> 00:06:14.840 Now, at least the Nginx one, I think actually the Traefik one as well, but the Nginx one lets you edit your config. 00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:23.260 You can go over your manage sites here and you can say, I could even add a site, but I could go over here and edit the prime sponsor, whatever that is. 00:06:23.780 --> 00:06:27.880 But you can go and put in, just start typing away in your Nginx config here. 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:29.660 Set your upstream, set your server. 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:33.960 You can view the logs, which is pretty sweet, and all kinds of stuff. 00:06:34.140 --> 00:06:36.880 Look at the certificates, configs, upstreams. 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:37.800 This one makes me nervous. 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:39.540 A little terminology just goes to your server. 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:40.360 I'm not a fan of that. 00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:41.600 Like, that should be turned off. 00:06:41.900 --> 00:06:42.620 Just, there's no need. 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:43.320 There's no need for that. 00:06:43.420 --> 00:06:44.700 A little bit of security risk there. 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:45.520 You know what? 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:46.100 I'm sure it's fine. 00:06:46.440 --> 00:06:48.600 Everyone was just looking like, yeah, it would be mean to mess with this. 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:53.560 It kind of reminds me of the old days of Webman, which was riddled with security problems. 00:06:53.660 --> 00:06:55.040 like a C panel or something. 00:06:55.380 --> 00:06:55.840 Yeah, right. 00:06:56.060 --> 00:06:56.160 Exactly. 00:06:57.020 --> 00:06:57.100 Yeah. 00:06:57.280 --> 00:07:00.040 So anyway, what's cool though is I believe this as well. 00:07:00.280 --> 00:07:04.920 Certainly the prior one, you can run it in Docker just as a sidecar Docker container. 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:08.180 So it's just in your Docker cluster set up there, which I think is pretty cool. 00:07:08.500 --> 00:07:10.020 So this is one that looks pretty interesting. 00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:11.980 And finally, I'm a fan of Caddy. 00:07:12.400 --> 00:07:15.440 If I didn't have 2,000 lines of config, I'd have to migrate. 00:07:15.780 --> 00:07:16.240 I'm starting over. 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:17.320 I'm pretty sure I would do Caddy. 00:07:17.460 --> 00:07:18.060 Caddy looks great. 00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:19.180 I've never used Caddy. 00:07:19.340 --> 00:07:19.900 No, I've never used. 00:07:19.960 --> 00:07:20.580 I mean, I've heard of it. 00:07:20.640 --> 00:07:21.180 I've never used it. 00:07:21.320 --> 00:07:22.120 I've been more on. 00:07:22.220 --> 00:07:25.960 We've been using Traefik quite a bit, and we historically use a lot of Nginx. 00:07:26.280 --> 00:07:27.180 Yeah, same. 00:07:27.470 --> 00:07:29.680 I mean, Nginx and then like, no bad Traefik. 00:07:29.900 --> 00:07:35.080 But, so this is really cool because it's config file is supposed to be like, just what you need. 00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:36.460 It's got kind of a Python vibe. 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:40.640 Like, yeah, you don't need a namespace, a static class, and a static main void. 00:07:40.710 --> 00:07:43.840 Like you could just, could we just put the thing that does the thing in there? 00:07:44.130 --> 00:07:44.800 Which is really cool. 00:07:44.930 --> 00:07:54.700 And it also does auto, automatically does, it's in order to get SSL, All you got to do is turn it on and have the IP address pointing there and you make a request to it. 00:07:54.700 --> 00:07:56.820 And it just does that, manages it like that. 00:07:56.980 --> 00:07:59.560 So certainly a very neat setup. 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:01.760 I feel like this is a pretty modern server. 00:08:02.280 --> 00:08:06.540 So with that said, there's also CATI UI, which is another one of these. 00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:07.500 Of course there is, right? 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:08.500 Because why wouldn't there be? 00:08:08.780 --> 00:08:13.540 Let's say you look at like a dashboard and then logs and like metrics for your server and so on. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:17.280 It's like so dark mode that even the text on a black background is mostly dark. 00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:30.180 So I wonder if there's not a limited audience for these UIs though, because if you're at a certain level, you're gonna have Prometheus, Grafana, and all these kinds of metrics streaming into a centralized observability platform 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:35.400 where you can now correlate and trace, but you're still only getting a view from the web server. 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:40.360 I didn't know, did you see if they include any kind of web request tracing in there? 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:41.460 It could only go so far. 00:08:41.700 --> 00:08:43.240 I didn't see any. 00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:44.640 Yeah. - No, I didn't see any. 00:08:44.900 --> 00:08:52.960 I think that this is targeted at the Home Assistant crew, The one website, small project crew. 00:08:53.430 --> 00:09:02.320 Although the Traefik one talks about a lot of auto discovery of services and that kind of stuff, which speaks not to it. 00:09:02.680 --> 00:09:06.520 So the Traefik one seems maybe to be the most pro of them all. 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:07.220 Very cool. 00:09:07.660 --> 00:09:08.660 Anyway, there you go. 00:09:09.350 --> 00:09:12.020 If you want a UI for your front-end web server, why not? 00:09:12.420 --> 00:09:13.000 You can get it. 00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:13.460 You can get it. 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.420 All right, well, let's head back into Django world. 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:28.360 in the Django world, there's a brand new release that released, I think it's like literally, I'll dive in, we're at Wagtail land now. Wagtail did an 8.0 release today. So this is very, very 00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:40.040 hot news. If we go into the Wagtail repository, take a look at the releases, you'll see here eight, six hours ago, 8.0 release for Wagtail. So the Wagtail team has been very busy. They have not 00:09:40.090 --> 00:09:49.620 even completed the release blog for this yet, which will come out tomorrow, depending on when this comes out, you should see that news tomorrow. But if you're a Wagtail user, you can rejoice that 00:09:49.620 --> 00:10:01.860 there is the 8.0 version out right now. Some new stuff that is inside of Wagtail. We've got custom base page models are now supported. So projects aren't locked into subclassing Wagtail's page as 00:10:02.060 --> 00:10:15.460 shipped. So you get a little more flexibility to having your own custom base page models. I think that's going to be a big win for folks who want to do more customized things and not feel so constrained. The V3 REST API handles both read and write operations for the CMS, 00:10:16.300 --> 00:10:28.360 so that gives a lot more flexibility to the API and be able to have a fully headless wag tail if you wanted. There's a global registry for permission policies plus full customizability for the remaining page views via the 00:10:28.520 --> 00:10:39.420 page view set. Another big one to watch out for if you're migrating from prior to eight, so in the seven or the six range, AVIF and WebP images are no longer are going to be auto-converted to PNG by default. 00:10:40.030 --> 00:10:43.420 So that's something to watch out for on Upgrade if you're depending on that specific behavior. 00:10:43.900 --> 00:10:49.820 They're going to be treated more natively by the platform, but you may have some special behaviors because you were depending on the auto-conversion. 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:52.940 I don't know how to feel about WebP images. 00:10:53.130 --> 00:10:57.080 You know, I like to be on the cut edge of these things, but I just feel like, I don't know, I feel like they're everywhere though. 00:10:57.500 --> 00:11:00.140 I more and more see them all the major sites. 00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:03.720 Yeah, almost all the ones on Python by Set.fm are WebP. 00:11:04.060 --> 00:11:16.020 I went through the Google page optimization stuff and you know like lighthouse is that what it's called yeah all those things right yeah all those things it's like you need to upgrade to webp you need to upgrade i'm like fine i will upgrade to 00:11:16.140 --> 00:11:29.360 webp and i went through it and yeah they i do think it's actually a slightly a little bit better like is it as big of a deal as they make uh probably not but sometimes it's really nice and and so on it does seem to work pretty seamlessly except for if i go to youtube like for example if 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:38.520 i want to change the thumbnail for this live version of our recording yeah on a google property it will not allow me to upload a web P file because it says it's not an image. 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:39.640 I'm like, I'm not surprised. 00:11:39.940 --> 00:11:40.280 It's Google. 00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:52.320 So there's places like that, like, or if you try to set it as the poster for your podcast, a lot of the podcast apps can't display web P even though the platform can't, like, there's just like a little hang up. 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:56.520 I imagine though it's like, there are people like, I want web P stop turning it back into something else. 00:11:56.630 --> 00:11:57.600 I put it there on purpose. 00:11:58.140 --> 00:11:58.960 Cause Google told me to. 00:11:59.140 --> 00:11:59.720 Cause you did it. 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:00.320 Cause this is optimized. 00:12:00.510 --> 00:12:13.920 It was funny because a lot of platforms are just a little behind the times on what image because obviously they're trying to protect their platforms and not allow random images or random not images to be uploaded as images so i think a little uh thumbnail.exe for example right 00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:23.880 right it's a little peer pressure to get folks to do the right thing would probably go a long way so google google if you're listening go update your uh application to support webp for that exactly 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:29.620 youtube team just yeah add a star.webp in there come on let's do it so and more importantly in 00:12:29.400 --> 00:12:40.980 in this release, there are some five major security fixes. The page admin API restrictions, document identification by a SHA-1 hash, the descendant collections and documents and images 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:50.500 API, and the snippet copy permissions, and the page translation endpoint have all had fixes. I highlighted them here on the screen, but you can go see those in the release notes. They're called 00:12:50.640 --> 00:13:04.800 out with the big security fix prefix there. Also of note is formalized. They now have formalized django 6.1 support and the ci now runs with uh uv and a lock file so the uv is takeover is it's 00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:15.620 been successful in the wagtail community very cool yeah wagtail is neat i'm glad it's getting the love and april that's a big release yeah and i think this will tie in with your later segment the 00:13:16.180 --> 00:13:27.020 the intentionality and the sophistication by which they tie themselves to specific releases so that you know you are well supported by the community, by the bug fixes, by the maintainers. 00:13:27.180 --> 00:13:29.660 All that lines up really, really well in the Wagtail community. 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.040 And we'll talk about it a little more when you get into the Django stuff as well. 00:13:33.160 --> 00:13:33.420 Absolutely. 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:37.880 Well, before we get to that, though, maybe a quick thanks to our sponsor. 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:38.700 That sounds awesome. 00:13:39.140 --> 00:13:39.300 Yeah. 00:13:39.390 --> 00:13:45.320 So thank you, Pydantic and thank you, Logfire, their observability platform from Pydantic. 00:13:45.640 --> 00:13:46.420 So here's the situation. 00:13:46.760 --> 00:13:49.080 Your AI agent failed at 2 a.m. 00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:51.760 Was it the model, a tool call, the database? 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.520 Most observability tools can't tell you because they only see part of the stack. 00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:57.560 Pydantic Logfire sees all of it. 00:13:57.700 --> 00:14:00.820 One trace across all your agents, LLMs, APIs, and databases. 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.880 Down to the infrastructure, services, Kubernetes, as well as hosts. 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:09.060 It's built on open telemetry with SDKs for Python, TypeScript, and Rust. 00:14:09.330 --> 00:14:11.760 And it works with any hotel compatible language. 00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:16.680 Every prompt, token count, cost right in your vector searches and API calls. 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.800 You query everything with a Postgres compatible SQL language. 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:22.980 So super easy to do. 00:14:23.390 --> 00:14:24.880 You get reports and slice and dice them. 00:14:25.280 --> 00:14:29.800 And your coding agent can get there through the Logfire MCP server. 00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:30.900 So stop guessing. 00:14:31.300 --> 00:14:31.820 Read the trace. 00:14:32.280 --> 00:14:33.960 Once you have it installed, you'll have the trace, right? 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:35.120 Logfire AI. 00:14:35.380 --> 00:14:37.560 AI, it's still just engineering. 00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:40.920 I'm actually going to close out the show with a little sidebar on that. 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:43.980 But visit pythonbytes.fm/logfire today and sign up. 00:14:44.060 --> 00:14:45.760 You'll get 10 million records for free every month. 00:14:45.960 --> 00:15:00.360 no card acquired. And we talked about last time, you can even click the onboard your project with your coding agent, which instantly copies a markdown block. You just paste into cloud or codex and it will go on it. I'm on it. You're going to have a log fire in your app. So give me 10 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:03.180 minutes. So thank you to Pydantic for supporting the show. 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.580 And count feature. I think they're downplaying that. They need to put that front and center. 00:15:06.940 --> 00:15:07.700 That's going to be a big deal. 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.200 Yeah. That's the one that you all are chasing, right? 00:15:10.640 --> 00:15:18.940 Yeah, totally right now. So I don't want to turn this into a full segment, but I think that There's a lot to be said for having that just right out of the box with their tools. 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:19.880 So very cool. 00:15:19.990 --> 00:15:23.120 Well, thanks Pydantic Logfire for being a sponsor. 00:15:23.520 --> 00:15:27.780 This is the one non-webby thing on here, but could have a web implication. 00:15:28.340 --> 00:15:34.860 So the Python Software Foundation has announced RISC-V support is now officially supported by CPython. 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:36.840 Why would anyone care? 00:15:37.780 --> 00:15:38.600 So I'll get into that. 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:45.320 So RISC-V is a CPU architecture, and it's technically so important fits here. 00:15:45.400 --> 00:15:48.000 It's now a tier three platform under PEP 11. 00:15:48.260 --> 00:15:57.720 So the rules for when they build, what they build, how they support, fast-summing gets prioritized for fixes, all comes into play when saying it's a tier three platform. 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:00.100 But it does mean someone's watching and someone does care. 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:03.080 So this is specifically for 64-bit Linux. 00:16:03.780 --> 00:16:16.660 So that means that if you've got single board computers, kind of like Raspberry Pis, but they're running alternate architectures like RISC-V, which there's quite a few of those out there on the market right now, you can now depend on there being a Python 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:28.600 build that will run on your architecture and not having it be kind of a maybe it'll work. So this opens up a lot of things in like maybe the IoT space, the home automation space. There's a lot of 00:16:28.780 --> 00:16:41.360 at-edge computing applications here where now Python can be a number one potentially choice for the coding, application building, deploying at edge, and you're not relying on just maybe lower 00:16:41.470 --> 00:16:53.520 level languages. So hopefully this opens up some of that IRT space to other folks. So yeah, like the RISC-V is an open architecture that anyone can implement, unlike the x86 and ARM, which are like 00:16:53.820 --> 00:17:05.819 closed. But its market is projected to quadruple by 2032. So we expect to see more news about RISC-V of architectures and processors, especially given all the hype around GPUs and things like that 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:16.199 right now. So what changes? The push now maintained with a compatibility target. CPython changes are going to be less likely to quietly break it. That means that they got to take care of it. Someone's 00:17:16.280 --> 00:17:27.639 basically watching. What you don't get, there are no Python.org installers yet and no binary wheel parity for native extensions. So if you've got an extension that depends on a C compiled or a 00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:38.080 Rust compiled binary piece that's still on you to compile and enroll your own. But at least this is a step in the right direction. And if their market share is going to quadruple, it's nice to see 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:43.300 Python taking proactive measures to ensure we have compatibility there. See what else we got in here. 00:17:43.660 --> 00:17:53.959 Yeah. The one thing that folks may also think would be happening is, for example, you're familiar with SP32 boards. If you do any kind of home automation or any kind of like hacking on hardware 00:17:54.060 --> 00:18:07.560 or IoT. You've probably heard of the SP32 platform or the Raspberry pypyco, Pico2 platform. Those are RISC-V processors, but they are not 64-bit Linux RISC processors. So there's not necessarily support 00:18:07.780 --> 00:18:19.060 yet for those embedded processors. You're still going to want to use MicroPython or CircuitPython for those kinds of applications. But if you're using something like the Vision 5 board, there's 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:27.580 a couple other boards out there on the market that are more like Raspberry Pis. You'll now have support. You can embed those, put them at the edge. There's reasons why you may do that. For example, 00:18:27.840 --> 00:18:40.060 costs, supply, demand, power, efficiency, energy usage, a lot of special cases here. But again, I think it's kind of exciting news. I'm a nerd when it comes to like hardware and architectures, 00:18:40.210 --> 00:18:50.439 and I know not everyone cares, but it does mean you could run Django on a RISC-V processor now reliably and have releases out there that will guarantee to work. So that's what the news is 00:18:50.460 --> 00:19:01.240 the risk five i love it yeah that's really cool it's easy to think okay mac Linux windows arm x86 that's what we got to support right but there's a bunch of little little tiny devices exactly 00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:13.680 we all run on like here's my 25 esp32 if it were 64 then i'd be even more excited i run circuit python on it but yeah the ability to reach all these little so many little niche things 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:22.880 well and there's been recently there's been shortage of raspberry pi vives for example So I think that helps with the supply chain issues potentially. 00:19:23.540 --> 00:19:27.540 And again, from power and efficiency, we see this thing quadrupling. 00:19:27.810 --> 00:19:29.040 We better make sure Python's there. 00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:31.400 So I'm excited to see the Python community making that happen. 00:19:31.480 --> 00:19:31.760 As well. 00:19:32.340 --> 00:19:32.700 I'm as well. 00:19:33.080 --> 00:19:37.120 My experience working with effectively MicroPython, it's super cool in the language. 00:19:37.320 --> 00:19:39.960 It's Python, but there's a lot of stuff like, you want this library? 00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:41.180 No, no, no, no, no. 00:19:41.230 --> 00:19:41.700 You don't get that. 00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:45.920 You get something that looks a little bit like it and it sort of works like it, but it's really tricky. 00:19:46.690 --> 00:19:48.580 So the more it can just be the same, the better. 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:58.760 Yeah. So I assume this will eventually trickle down into, who knows, maybe MicroPython will kind of just disintegrate, fade into the background, just genuine support for the architecture now that this is here. 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:06.020 Maybe it becomes a little bit like an anaconda. It is the same Python, but it's more ready for you to actually do stuff with. Who knows? 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:11.440 Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of supporting languages, I think you've got a little mixed up here. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:16.040 Let's talk about Django. I mean, how do I get this? I'm not even at the conference. 00:20:16.380 --> 00:20:18.180 I know, but I saw it on there. 00:20:18.260 --> 00:20:22.280 Like, honestly, I'm glad you're covering this because it's, I think truly, again, important news. 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:30.680 It speaks to the volumes of how the communities are supporting the software that we're putting out and the vibrancy and viability of open source. 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:33.700 Yeah, I always feel like with web frameworks, I'm just a flyer. 00:20:33.770 --> 00:20:35.080 I'm like, well, let's try this. 00:20:35.380 --> 00:20:38.280 Maybe it'll go unsupported in six months or maybe it'll be still going strong. 00:20:38.430 --> 00:20:40.780 I don't know, but it's But not with Django. 00:20:40.780 --> 00:20:42.420 But exactly, not with Django. 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:44.440 And that has been true for a while. 00:20:44.740 --> 00:20:52.920 However, Django's had this sort of multi-stage release where it's like, well, some of the things are just feature releases and they won't last that long. 00:20:53.080 --> 00:20:56.080 And others, these are the LTS or long-term versions. 00:20:56.560 --> 00:21:02.080 And those, if you install and run on those, then you're going to get guaranteed 12 years at least, right? 00:21:02.360 --> 00:21:08.800 Well, the news is, folks, Django is moving to an annual release cycle, part one, by our friend of the show, Carlton Gibson. 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:14.540 and every release is going to be an LTS, three years of supported version. 00:21:14.900 --> 00:21:15.480 Super cool, right? 00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:17.540 So I think that's really good. 00:21:17.740 --> 00:21:19.000 So let me give you all the details. 00:21:20.320 --> 00:21:22.000 2028, January, 2028. 00:21:22.220 --> 00:21:26.000 It sounds so far away, but probably it'll be here just like, oh, is it 2028? 00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:27.040 I guess, here we go. 00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:28.400 I'm sure we'll cover it then. 00:21:28.700 --> 00:21:38.820 But in 2028 in January, there will be a new version of Django and it won't be called 6.1, 7.0 or whatever the heck it would have otherwise been called. 00:21:38.870 --> 00:21:40.640 It's going to be called Django 2028. 00:21:41.060 --> 00:21:43.180 So they're moving to calendar versioning 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:44.580 instead of semantic versioning. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:45.720 Big fan of calendar versioning. 00:21:45.860 --> 00:21:46.680 Yeah, I am too. 00:21:46.940 --> 00:21:48.700 I'm generally a fan of calendar versioning as well. 00:21:49.020 --> 00:21:52.380 So we're going to have Django 2028, Django 2029. 00:21:52.820 --> 00:21:57.780 And you won't be able to play the game like, hey, what year was Django 3 released? 00:21:58.120 --> 00:21:59.540 I'm really a Django fan like, yeah. 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.660 What year was Django 2028 released? 00:22:02.780 --> 00:22:04.660 Like, I'll tell you what, I bet it was 2028. 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:05.340 Pretty amazing. 00:22:05.470 --> 00:22:06.360 So that's also helpful. 00:22:06.560 --> 00:22:10.400 Kind of give you a sense of like, oh, we're running on 2026 and it's 2031. 00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:12.140 This is probably not good, folks. 00:22:12.800 --> 00:22:13.740 It's probably not good. 00:22:13.950 --> 00:22:15.880 So it can also kind of be a little bit of a marker. 00:22:16.060 --> 00:22:16.220 All right. 00:22:16.290 --> 00:22:21.040 So every release gets one-year mainstream bug fixes, followed by two years of security and data loss fixes. 00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:25.520 The new release to support the last three years of Python versions. 00:22:25.820 --> 00:22:30.880 So there's this interchange of support guarantees with Python and the next Python release during its first year. 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:32.940 Calendar version begins in 2028. 00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:40.440 And then from there, three Django versions will be supported anytime because years are a year long and it's three years of support. 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:41.500 So there we go. 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:44.780 And most importantly, maybe nothing changes for a year and a half. 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.300 So existing commitments like 6.2 LTS still there as they were before. 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:50.620 Anything else you want to add to that? 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:59.180 I think these are the kind of promises that the community needs to make so that business understands that this community is serious. 00:22:59.740 --> 00:23:05.540 If you've got software projects where you are just wishy-washy around what versions you're going to support, what versions it runs on. 00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:10.020 You see this a little bit in the WordPress community, a lot of it in the WordPress community. 00:23:10.380 --> 00:23:13.100 There's not hard and fast, like this should run on this version. 00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:16.680 There's a long-term support that's going to give you bug fixes till this version. 00:23:17.179 --> 00:23:20.760 It's a little more Wild West, I feel like, over there compared to the Django community. 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.620 I think I can make that as a fair statement. 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:27.220 The Django community is already committed to two long-term supports at any point in time. 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:29.860 So like right now we've got 5.2 and 6.2 will be coming up. 00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:34.620 Now we're saying there's basically gonna be three versions that will be stable, supported, updated. 00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:48.420 And you have now time in your enterprise planning to make sure you get your software updated to follow the schedule on your schedule and not the emergency schedule because stuff happened and now you gotta deal with it. 00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:57.720 So I feel like that gives a big boost again to the peace of mind of running Django, running Python and doing this all in production and knowing when things are going to happen. 00:23:57.900 --> 00:23:58.800 I'm a huge fan. 00:23:59.100 --> 00:24:00.120 And the calendar version in the boot. 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:10.220 I, again, love that because, you know, immediately at a glance, if you're three years out of date and just about ready to run out of end of life on LTS, it's right in the name. 00:24:10.360 --> 00:24:10.860 That's right there. 00:24:11.140 --> 00:24:18.200 If I were running an organization based on Django, I would probably just be flipping to the new version pretty much mid-January or something like that. 00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:19.500 I think most do. 00:24:19.980 --> 00:24:23.420 Yeah, most do, but I think there's a class of org that can't. 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:23.980 Exactly. 00:24:24.210 --> 00:24:24.820 Or just won't. 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.180 They just have a don't touch it principle. 00:24:26.320 --> 00:24:26.620 Is it working? 00:24:26.840 --> 00:24:27.620 Just don't touch it. 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:27.920 It's working. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:31.820 I think this opens up just every February. 00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:33.080 Just have a look. 00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:35.440 What does it cost to upgrade to the next version of Django? 00:24:35.800 --> 00:24:36.540 Do a little automation. 00:24:37.040 --> 00:24:37.660 Give it a go. 00:24:38.010 --> 00:24:38.500 See how it works. 00:24:38.830 --> 00:24:42.960 And that gives you a really solid cadence of just staying to date. 00:24:43.270 --> 00:24:46.180 And even though there's three-year support, I wouldn't have three-year gaps. 00:24:46.190 --> 00:24:51.640 I would have one-year gaps because the number of issues you might run into are, on average, one-third as many. 00:24:51.750 --> 00:24:53.900 So it just makes that little staying on top of it easier. 00:24:54.100 --> 00:25:04.440 Because if you're five years out and you hear something is something catastrophic happens and you need to update for whatever reason, well, you're all of a sudden like juggling a really big migration project, you know, the house on fire. 00:25:04.790 --> 00:25:05.860 So get ahead of it. 00:25:06.270 --> 00:25:18.760 At this point, you can go three years and reliably have your CID pipeline build, you know, once a week, a seven day back off and know you're going to get the security fixes and the peace of mind of always having a patch piece of software that can be automated. 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.640 Like it should be no hands on to make this now a very secure process. 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:28.640 And if you're doing CI, CD, maybe throw in some knocks and just get different versions or something like that, right? 00:25:28.800 --> 00:25:30.300 Like, hey, might as well automate. 00:25:30.940 --> 00:25:32.040 Yeah, know when they're coming. 00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:34.320 Get ahead of that curve. 00:25:34.760 --> 00:25:41.000 Yeah, we've been doing unit tests in CI against the next version of Django for two months, so probably okay. 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:47.820 And that, unless you're doing something really kind of off the wall, Django releases are pretty non-events these days in general, which is awesome. 00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:49.920 Well, do you have any extra events? 00:25:50.300 --> 00:25:52.940 Do you have some extra events in here, Michael? 00:25:53.040 --> 00:25:55.260 So a couple quick item here. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.220 This one was interesting because the Python docs now document the time of built-in types. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:08.860 This is not new per se because it's been buried in a wiki that's been aging for years and years and years. 00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:10.220 But it was never front and center. 00:26:10.360 --> 00:26:11.400 And so people had to go look it up. 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:14.740 It was never associated with the documentation directly. 00:26:14.760 --> 00:26:18.800 So this is just a migration from wiki to official docs. 00:26:18.940 --> 00:26:24.620 And so you can see over here on the list operation, a list copy has an O the N complexity. 00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:36.520 And so if you are evaluating how you might implement specific algorithms, this may matter if you're in a very performance based environment or you're just trying to be more efficient about your coding. 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:41.100 These will give you all the hints around complexity and gives it for all the various default types. 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.520 So you want to know the complexity of a set compared to a dictionary. 00:26:44.940 --> 00:26:46.460 You can see those things in here. 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:48.920 The strings and byte arrays and memories. 00:26:49.090 --> 00:26:50.580 So all those are basically baked in. 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:55.540 You can see in the big O quotation if you're into that kind of thing. 00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:58.380 I was never a computer science major in college. 00:26:58.770 --> 00:27:01.020 So I never learned about this until later in life. 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:05.180 But that's very helpful because again, kind of next level thinking on that. 00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:07.100 Let me add one thing really quick. 00:27:07.100 --> 00:27:08.500 I saw this as well and this is interesting. 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:11.780 I wish the list would have like find item as well. 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:12.940 I don't think it does though. 00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:15.300 because then you could have put that against, or does it? 00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:17.240 Because then you can put it against like dictionary or set. 00:27:17.280 --> 00:27:19.560 You're like, oh, it's a million times faster in set. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:19.900 That's weird. 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:20.680 Maybe we should use that. 00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:22.440 So these are like... 00:27:22.820 --> 00:27:24.020 Especially for performance optimization. 00:27:24.600 --> 00:27:25.280 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:27:25.320 --> 00:27:33.220 So it could give people a little bit of an idea, but also I think having this listed here might encourage some new contributions to CPython. 00:27:33.600 --> 00:27:36.320 For example, find range on there if you can. 00:27:36.540 --> 00:27:36.860 There it is. 00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.180 So what's the length or the min or the max? 00:27:40.740 --> 00:27:42.840 Like len or min and max, all those. 00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:43.780 is O of N. 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:46.140 Oh, Gitlin is one. 00:27:46.340 --> 00:27:47.000 Okay, that's pretty good. 00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:48.060 So it does know. 00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:49.840 I guess it's not the... 00:27:49.860 --> 00:27:50.520 It's been around a while. 00:27:50.800 --> 00:27:52.320 No, no, but I still think min and max. 00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:56.080 So for example, when you create a range, you say, what is the starting value? 00:27:56.260 --> 00:27:57.080 What is the N in value? 00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:58.080