WEBVTT 00:00:00.001 --> 00:00:05.260 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.260 --> 00:00:11.140 This is episode 97, recorded September 26, 2018. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.140 --> 00:00:12.080 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:13.260 Hey, Brian. How are you doing today? 00:00:13.260 --> 00:00:14.900 Hey, I'm doing great. 00:00:14.900 --> 00:00:19.160 Awesome. Awesome. Me too. Lots of big news. So much news that I can't even keep up with it. 00:00:19.160 --> 00:00:23.660 Yeah, it's a good thing that there's like this weekly podcast that keeps us up on Python news. 00:00:23.660 --> 00:00:25.700 I know. Where's the one that we get to listen to? 00:00:25.700 --> 00:00:27.640 Yeah. 00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:29.380 That's what we need. We need a meta podcast. 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:32.160 No, that's okay. Other people don't do that. 00:00:32.160 --> 00:00:32.800 Yeah, that's right. 00:00:32.800 --> 00:00:37.360 So I also want to say thank you to Datadog for sponsoring this episode. 00:00:37.360 --> 00:00:41.740 Really happy to have them on board. Check them out at pythonbytes.fm/datadog. 00:00:41.740 --> 00:00:46.080 Cool t-shirt lives at that URL. More to say about that later. 00:00:46.080 --> 00:00:48.760 PyPI just keeps getting better and better, doesn't it? 00:00:48.760 --> 00:00:51.680 Yeah, PyPI keeps getting better and the tools around it. 00:00:51.680 --> 00:00:56.680 And a recent release just a couple days ago of Twine. 00:00:57.480 --> 00:00:58.840 So Twine has been updated. 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:10.360 And for people that don't know, Twine is the thing that pushes your code from your laptop or your computer or your server or wherever to PyPI. 00:01:11.100 --> 00:01:13.780 And Twine has a check function now. 00:01:13.780 --> 00:01:17.200 Actually, there's quite a few things in the new Twine upgrade. 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:28.220 But this one's neat because once you've packaged your distribution up and everything and your wheels and whatever, it usually shows up in a dist folder. 00:01:28.220 --> 00:01:32.080 And then you say Twine check dist and then everything in it. 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:42.400 And it checks to make sure that one of the things it does, I think it does a lot of things, but at the very least, one of the things it does is make sure your readme is rendering properly, supposedly. 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.080 Yeah, that's really cool that it even checks that, right? 00:01:45.080 --> 00:01:47.680 Because that's hard to test, right? 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.060 How do you know if your readme is not rendering properly? 00:01:50.060 --> 00:02:00.320 Yeah, we're linking to an article that's from on the PyPI that is how to make a PyPI-friendly readme. 00:02:00.320 --> 00:02:08.900 So there's actually, it's not really difficult, but it's one of those things that, it's one of the last things you do before you, well, it shouldn't be the last thing. 00:02:09.020 --> 00:02:16.680 But when you're getting a package together and you're like, hey, I have this really cool idea, I want to push it up on PyPI, you got to make sure the readme works. 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:19.340 And this is one of those steps. 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:22.320 And there's just a little short article on how to do that right. 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:22.720 Yeah. 00:02:22.720 --> 00:02:28.020 Although like magic, it's not difficult, but the stuff you have to put in your setup.py and everything. 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:29.160 Yeah, that's a good find. 00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:34.220 Anyone who is either maintaining or thinking of creating a PyPI package should definitely check it out. 00:02:34.300 --> 00:02:44.580 Yeah, and I think in your build toolchain or your talks toolchain to add a check step to make sure to go ahead and check before pushing it up, that would be a good thing to do. 00:02:44.580 --> 00:02:46.300 That can be like a pre-commit hook or something. 00:02:46.300 --> 00:02:47.000 Wow. 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:47.420 I don't know. 00:02:47.420 --> 00:02:50.680 Definitely part of your continuous integration anyway. 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:52.160 Yeah, definitely part of your CI. 00:02:52.160 --> 00:02:54.720 The first item I have is pretty interesting. 00:02:55.500 --> 00:03:08.280 And when you think of the languages and technologies that you can use, most of the time we think of programming languages and their subsequent runtimes basically being free, right? 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.620 I mean, obviously Python. 00:03:09.620 --> 00:03:12.440 Like you don't think, well, what does CPython cost? 00:03:12.440 --> 00:03:16.280 But even from places where you might not necessarily expect it, right? 00:03:16.280 --> 00:03:18.660 Like C++, it's free. 00:03:18.660 --> 00:03:19.860 Go is free. 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:22.240 Microsoft.net is free. 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:22.720 Right? 00:03:22.720 --> 00:03:23.340 All these things. 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:24.920 You know what's not free these days? 00:03:25.060 --> 00:03:25.280 What? 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:25.640 Java. 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:26.080 Really? 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:49.960 So apparently, Sun has made the Java runtime for, you're going to have to just check out the article on the register to make sure I get this exactly right, but roughly, Java is making the runtime a subscription, and the subscription costs $25 per processor per month for commercial entities. 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:50.920 Wow. 00:03:50.920 --> 00:03:51.780 Is that crazy? 00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:52.340 Yeah. 00:03:52.340 --> 00:03:57.580 There's definitely some cases, like as students and whatnot, where you can just use Java for free. 00:03:57.580 --> 00:04:09.900 But a lot of commercial organizations that depend upon Java need to read this article and the subsequently linked 330-page document that describes this process over at Oracle. 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:10.300 Hmm. 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:11.760 So that's pretty interesting, right? 00:04:11.760 --> 00:04:12.260 Yeah. 00:04:12.260 --> 00:04:12.380 Yeah. 00:04:12.380 --> 00:04:12.420 Yeah. 00:04:12.420 --> 00:04:12.420 Yeah. 00:04:12.420 --> 00:04:12.480 Yeah. 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:12.500 Yeah. 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:12.500 Yeah. 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:12.500 Yeah. 00:04:12.500 --> 00:04:12.880 Yeah. 00:04:12.880 --> 00:04:13.800 It's the run times even. 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:20.220 So you have to, like, if somebody else makes a Java application, it's not the person making it, it's the person running it. 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:20.500 Yeah. 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:20.540 Yeah. 00:04:20.540 --> 00:04:26.020 So it says, Oracle's put a price on the Java SE and its subsequent support. 00:04:26.020 --> 00:04:32.660 So $25 per processor per month plus a $2.50 per user per month on the desktop. 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:33.060 Okay. 00:04:33.200 --> 00:04:34.220 Unless you buy a whole bunch. 00:04:34.220 --> 00:04:34.660 Yeah. 00:04:34.660 --> 00:04:36.460 So it looks like maybe $250. 00:04:36.460 --> 00:04:37.460 Wow. 00:04:37.460 --> 00:04:37.920 Yeah. 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.920 It's kind of all convoluted, but it's, yeah, it's quite interesting. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:53.340 They say the older run times, you can still use them for free, but, like, who wants to use a run time that has no bug fixes, no security patches or things like that, right? 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:58.300 Yeah, I guess maybe they're trying to make everybody move to Python. 00:04:58.300 --> 00:04:58.640 Yeah. 00:04:58.640 --> 00:05:00.360 And that's exactly, that was my first thought. 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:02.880 It's like, yeah, Java's been pretty high in the language rankings. 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:04.120 Maybe it's going to plummet now. 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.220 I mean, seriously, this is pretty crazy. 00:05:06.220 --> 00:05:11.120 So, yeah, it says, also, there's a little bit of a stick to go with the carrot. 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:12.100 Yeah. 00:05:12.100 --> 00:05:18.380 Come January 2019, Java SE 8 on the desktop won't be updated anymore unless you buy a subscription. 00:05:19.520 --> 00:05:28.040 And, yeah, the short version is every commercial enterprise needs to look at their Java standard edition usage to see if they have something to do with licensing now. 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:34.820 So this was sent in by one of our listeners, and I'm super sorry I didn't write down the name in the show notes, but thank you for sending it in. 00:05:34.820 --> 00:05:35.840 This is interesting. 00:05:35.840 --> 00:05:39.640 I know it's not directly a Python thing, but it's just, you know, here's the thing. 00:05:39.640 --> 00:05:47.300 I kind of always sort of thought of Java as more or less open source, and I guess it's just, you know, that Oracle oversaw, but I guess that's not the case. 00:05:47.300 --> 00:05:47.740 Yeah. 00:05:47.740 --> 00:05:48.340 Weird. 00:05:48.340 --> 00:05:49.020 Okay. 00:05:49.020 --> 00:05:49.200 Yeah. 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:51.160 Anyway, there's that. 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:51.680 Yeah. 00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:54.340 Well, this next topic is really, really important. 00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:55.580 For importing. 00:05:55.580 --> 00:05:56.640 Importing. 00:05:56.640 --> 00:05:56.940 Yeah. 00:05:56.940 --> 00:05:58.340 It's very, very importing. 00:05:58.340 --> 00:06:00.880 Tell us about it. 00:06:00.880 --> 00:06:01.200 Importing. 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:01.520 Yeah. 00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:04.940 Absolute versus relative imports in Python. 00:06:04.940 --> 00:06:07.520 This is an article on the real Python. 00:06:07.520 --> 00:06:08.680 I think it's on real Python. 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.360 Realpython.com. 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:11.860 There's a lot of great articles there. 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:12.280 Yeah. 00:06:12.280 --> 00:06:13.380 I like what they're doing. 00:06:13.380 --> 00:06:13.920 Great job over there. 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:14.680 Me too. 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:23.260 The relative, and I lost my tab, but the most of your imports are going to be, the first part of the article is talking about normal kinds of imports. 00:06:23.260 --> 00:06:27.680 Like just the, you know, you import a package, like the import statement. 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:28.200 Right. 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:33.860 You do from package import something or from package dot, some sub package. 00:06:33.860 --> 00:06:35.780 There's a lot of, there's a lot of versions of that. 00:06:35.780 --> 00:06:37.720 So it's covering that. 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:43.240 But there's, like for instance, there's relative imports, which includes dots. 00:06:43.740 --> 00:06:47.080 So, like from dot, import something. 00:06:47.080 --> 00:06:49.700 Or import dot something. 00:06:49.700 --> 00:06:53.480 And I never, I kind of never remember how all that works. 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:55.180 So I'm glad that somebody wrote it up. 00:06:55.180 --> 00:07:00.520 I know it could probably find its other places, but this is a nice write-up of what all this means. 00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:04.840 So in general, people say the recommendation is don't do this. 00:07:04.840 --> 00:07:06.220 Don't do relative imports. 00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:09.260 But sometimes you have to, and there's a lot of good times. 00:07:09.260 --> 00:07:18.680 So for instance, if you were a package maintainer or you're developing a package, the modules within the package should be able to use functions from other modules. 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:19.740 That's why you have them. 00:07:19.740 --> 00:07:21.220 But how do you import that? 00:07:21.220 --> 00:07:28.040 You don't just, and one of the ways is you, you know, from dot, neighbor module, import something. 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:34.340 And that's what the single dot is, is import a module from the same package you're already at relatively. 00:07:34.340 --> 00:07:35.140 Yeah, that's cool. 00:07:35.140 --> 00:07:48.460 You know, the other thing that bugs me about when you have a package and sub packages that all interact and you use the full or external import style, if you want to rename that package, you're like, oh, I kind of like would rather call it this. 00:07:48.460 --> 00:07:51.620 All of a sudden, there's like lots of pain and suffering that happens. 00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:52.100 Yeah. 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:58.040 Well, even within it, if you import it from the top, yeah, you have to go through and change it. 00:07:58.040 --> 00:07:58.420 I don't know. 00:07:58.420 --> 00:07:59.160 Yeah, exactly. 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:03.640 It's not something I see very much, but I think it's a great article to have it all written up. 00:08:03.640 --> 00:08:05.660 Yeah, well, I use the dot, dot. 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:07.820 I guess it's a parent package thing. 00:08:07.820 --> 00:08:08.800 I don't really use that. 00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:15.660 But the single dot, I use all the time to just say the import something from the same package I'm in to keep. 00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:21.520 That way, like you said, you don't have to, if you decide on a different name for your package, you don't need to change that. 00:08:21.520 --> 00:08:22.240 Yeah, absolutely. 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:22.760 Very nice. 00:08:22.760 --> 00:08:23.700 So this is a good write-up. 00:08:23.700 --> 00:08:23.920 Yeah. 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:29.000 So before we get to the next one, which is kind of retro and fun, let me tell you quickly about Datadog. 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:30.820 If you're not familiar with them, you should check them out. 00:08:30.820 --> 00:08:34.820 They're especially good for distributed systems, microservices, things like that. 00:08:34.820 --> 00:08:39.460 So they're a monitoring platform that brings together metrics, logs, request traces, all in one place. 00:08:39.540 --> 00:08:53.040 Datadog has a trace as search and analytics feature that lets you break down your Python app performance by user, by URL, all sorts of cool stuff like that. 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:57.040 So you can quickly, easily troubleshoot and optimize your Python app. 00:08:57.040 --> 00:09:03.860 So try that out today with a free trial and Datadog will send you a free cool dog t-shirt. 00:09:03.860 --> 00:09:04.460 It's very nice. 00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:07.220 Check them out at pythonbytes.fm/Datadog to get started. 00:09:07.220 --> 00:09:10.940 The user ID thing, searching on users is kind of cool. 00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:16.900 You could maybe line that up if like a particular user had a complaint or something, you could maybe use that. 00:09:16.900 --> 00:09:17.740 Exactly. 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:19.080 I get this all the time. 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:22.000 Like, oh, this thing is not working super well on your platform. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.780 I'm like, seems to be working pretty well. 00:09:24.780 --> 00:09:25.980 I just don't understand. 00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:28.760 But if I could actually dig into it by user ID, that'd be awesome. 00:09:28.760 --> 00:09:30.000 Yeah, that's cool. 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:30.480 Yeah. 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.660 So I promise to do something retro, right? 00:09:32.660 --> 00:09:33.380 Yeah. 00:09:33.380 --> 00:09:34.560 I love retro. 00:09:34.560 --> 00:09:35.500 Quite retro. 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:36.660 Yeah. 00:09:36.660 --> 00:09:44.240 So you should check out, if you feel like making a game, you know, a lot of people get into programming because they were interested in making games. 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:45.460 And that's why they got into programming. 00:09:45.460 --> 00:09:46.440 That was not me, actually. 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:48.580 Like, I enjoyed playing games when I was younger. 00:09:48.580 --> 00:09:50.180 I sometimes still do. 00:09:50.180 --> 00:09:53.620 But I wasn't like, oh, I have to go into computers so I can make a game. 00:09:53.620 --> 00:09:54.480 I know a lot of people did. 00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:04.220 But the reality of make a game now is get 100 of your, you know, highly skilled developers and artists friends together and work for a year, which doesn't make a lot of sense, right? 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:04.460 Yeah. 00:10:04.540 --> 00:10:07.540 So you might make like a cool 2D scroll or retro thing. 00:10:07.540 --> 00:10:15.320 And this thing called Pyxel, P-Y-X-E-L, like pixel, Python, pixel sort of thing, is a retro game engine for Python. 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:15.960 How fun. 00:10:16.060 --> 00:10:17.820 So the idea is you only get 16 colors. 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:21.760 You get four sounds that can be played at the same time. 00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:25.500 It's a Python 3 run game platform. 00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:29.180 It runs on all the major platforms, Windows, macOS, and Linux. 00:10:29.180 --> 00:10:31.720 It even comes with a bunch of cool examples. 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.320 So if you pip install it, then you can just run install Pyxel examples. 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.880 And then you can go and explore them. 00:10:37.880 --> 00:10:38.720 But what do you think? 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:39.940 Looking at some of the screenshots there. 00:10:40.060 --> 00:10:41.280 It looks kind of fun. 00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:43.100 I got to try to check this out. 00:10:43.100 --> 00:10:43.340 Yeah. 00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:47.880 You don't have to be like massively skilled to create the graphics because you only get like a few colors. 00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:50.420 You only get like a certain size. 00:10:50.420 --> 00:10:56.420 It's not, you know, you don't have to be crazy artistic game studio type place to make this. 00:10:56.420 --> 00:10:56.640 Yeah. 00:10:56.640 --> 00:10:58.900 These are the types of video games that I grew up on. 00:10:58.900 --> 00:10:59.880 So yeah. 00:10:59.880 --> 00:11:00.540 Yeah. 00:11:00.540 --> 00:11:01.700 I think people might enjoy this. 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:04.000 And like I said, I think it makes it pretty accessible. 00:11:04.660 --> 00:11:19.480 It's an interesting way to bring UI capabilities to Python for people who might want to, like if you are doing some sort of programming class or you're doing, you know, like a school club or an hour of code type of thing. 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:20.760 An hour of code is probably too short. 00:11:20.760 --> 00:11:31.800 But, you know, those types of projects where you want to let, especially kids who are impatient and don't care that much for terminal apps and are not ready for web apps, like they could build a fun little thing if you gave them this as a foundation. 00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:32.180 Yeah. 00:11:32.180 --> 00:11:33.200 Each house. 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:33.840 So cool. 00:11:33.940 --> 00:11:34.020 Yeah. 00:11:34.020 --> 00:11:36.180 If people are into retro games, check this out. 00:11:36.180 --> 00:11:37.500 You can create your own with Python. 00:11:37.500 --> 00:11:39.600 What if I don't want to create a game? 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.800 I just want to create a command line interface. 00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:43.280 You mean like most apps? 00:11:43.280 --> 00:11:43.460 Yeah. 00:11:43.460 --> 00:11:48.640 So that's, you could even make your game have command line interfaces. 00:11:48.640 --> 00:11:49.400 Yeah. 00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:50.740 So there's a couple of options, right? 00:11:50.740 --> 00:11:52.280 You could use sys.argv. 00:11:52.280 --> 00:11:53.560 That'd be pretty awesome. 00:11:53.560 --> 00:11:54.600 That's pretty extensible. 00:11:54.600 --> 00:12:00.160 You could also use higher level things like argparse or click, right? 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:00.860 Click. 00:12:00.860 --> 00:12:01.320 Yeah. 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:01.560 Yeah. 00:12:01.560 --> 00:12:02.140 What's up with click? 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:05.900 I know there's a lot of great options and sometimes you just reach for what you know. 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:13.680 And since I've written a few command line interfaces from the sys.args and not enjoyed it, I have enjoyed working with click. 00:12:14.020 --> 00:12:15.500 And so click's been around for a while. 00:12:15.500 --> 00:12:22.940 But the news, really, I wanted to highlight it because it's cool that the click version 7 was released recently. 00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:36.760 And there's a huge list of, I mean, normally we don't just cover a version update of something just for the heck of it because things update all the time. 00:12:36.760 --> 00:12:39.040 Except for click doesn't update all the time. 00:12:39.040 --> 00:12:43.380 The last version of click was released January of 2017. 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.780 So that's neat that we have a new one. 00:12:46.780 --> 00:12:49.280 So there's all sorts of fun stuff in here. 00:12:49.280 --> 00:12:51.200 I don't know what I'm really excited about. 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.840 There's ZShell auto-completion support that was added. 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.280 That's kind of neat. 00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:57.060 That is quite cool. 00:12:57.060 --> 00:12:59.580 I use ohmyzsh, which I love. 00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:03.160 And this is really exciting for me because it's based on ZShell. 00:13:03.280 --> 00:13:07.620 One of the other things is click interfaces have, they include a help option. 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:14.400 You can do --help and it tells you what the options are for your command line interface and how to call it. 00:13:14.400 --> 00:13:17.380 You have to build that sort of stuff in, but it's pretty easy to write up. 00:13:17.380 --> 00:13:22.940 But one of the things they've added is that if you do it wrong, it doesn't tell you, it just says this is wrong or something. 00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:25.400 It doesn't tell you, it doesn't point to the help. 00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:26.880 But now it does. 00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:32.480 So in this version, any usage errors will now hint at using the help option, which is cool. 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:33.500 Yeah, I like it. 00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:36.180 And actually, there's pages and pages and pages of updates. 00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:37.660 There's a lot of stuff that changed. 00:13:37.660 --> 00:13:39.220 So good job, folks. 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:45.780 And I didn't realize it was part of the Palettes project, which is also Flask, the people that work on Flask. 00:13:45.780 --> 00:13:47.260 Yeah, yeah, it's part of Palettes. 00:13:47.260 --> 00:13:51.360 And you talked about how it hasn't been updated in a while and this is a major release. 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:54.800 Like Flask just went 1.0 and we talked about that a little while ago as well. 00:13:54.800 --> 00:13:55.420 That's pretty awesome. 00:13:55.420 --> 00:13:55.900 Yeah. 00:13:55.900 --> 00:14:02.700 And I know that the Palettes people, they take donations for if you're utilizing this and want to help out. 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:03.880 They would love to have your money. 00:14:03.880 --> 00:14:05.140 They would. 00:14:05.140 --> 00:14:05.560 They would. 00:14:05.560 --> 00:14:09.340 They have a special arrangement with the PSF. 00:14:09.340 --> 00:14:11.780 So it's sort of a nonprofit thing as well somehow, I think. 00:14:11.780 --> 00:14:12.180 Yeah. 00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:13.460 And nice people too. 00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:14.280 Yep, absolutely. 00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:15.680 So this is cool. 00:14:15.680 --> 00:14:16.800 I'm glad you highlighted it. 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:19.440 I want to understand the ZSH autocomplete a little bit more. 00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:19.880 That's sweet. 00:14:19.880 --> 00:14:22.040 So, Brian, do you use the cloud much? 00:14:22.040 --> 00:14:23.120 I think so. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:25.160 Well, we live in Oregon, so we get lots of clouds. 00:14:25.160 --> 00:14:25.600 Oh, yeah. 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:27.640 We, like, definitely use the cloud at least half the year. 00:14:27.640 --> 00:14:29.360 Yeah. 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.280 No, so. 00:14:31.280 --> 00:14:33.380 That was a really bad joke. 00:14:33.380 --> 00:14:34.540 It's a pretty good one. 00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:35.180 Yeah, I liked it. 00:14:35.180 --> 00:14:51.200 So one of the challenges of especially, like, platform as a service and things that are not infrastructure but other stuff, database as a service and other higher order things, is that you often pay, like, as you use them. 00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:51.600 Right? 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.680 And, like, if I use a virtual machine, I turn on the virtual machine, I know what it costs. 00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:55.960 Right? 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.900 Like, I go to DigitalOcean, fire that thing up. 00:14:58.900 --> 00:15:02.580 I know, like, the server that runs Python Bytes plus the database server. 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:05.180 I think they cost $15 a month together. 00:15:05.180 --> 00:15:05.480 Right? 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:09.360 I know it's $15 pretty much other than bandwidth, which is mostly covered. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:16.620 If you use something like, say, Firebase or AWS Lambda or other things, like, you pay as you use it. 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:18.800 And generally that's to your advantage. 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:19.080 Right. 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:20.640 But the you isn't really you. 00:15:20.780 --> 00:15:22.740 The you is your users are using it. 00:15:22.740 --> 00:15:23.000 Right. 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.740 And you don't necessarily know how much your users are going to use it. 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:25.940 Right. 00:15:25.940 --> 00:15:27.180 I mean, it's a good problem to have. 00:15:27.180 --> 00:15:28.180 Like, I have lots of users. 00:15:28.180 --> 00:15:29.320 They're using my app a lot. 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.740 So I'm using my cloud service a lot. 00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:33.880 But it's super, super scaling. 00:15:33.880 --> 00:15:42.760 And it turns out that if you program badly, you may have a higher bill than you otherwise expected. 00:15:42.760 --> 00:15:43.280 Yeah. 00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:48.700 So here's an example, which I think is just maybe a cautionary tale for everyone using clouds. 00:15:48.700 --> 00:15:52.240 And it doesn't really too much depend on, like, what cloud you're using. 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:55.860 Anything that where the price depends upon user consumption. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.960 I have a real world example for myself. 00:15:57.960 --> 00:15:58.860 I'll tell you about it at the end. 00:15:59.280 --> 00:16:06.580 But the article I want to cover here is the title is how we spent $30,000 in Firebase in less than three days. 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:07.420 Wow. 00:16:08.020 --> 00:16:15.520 And Firebase is like a database as a service exposed over, like, HTTP endpoint for JavaScript type of thing. 00:16:15.520 --> 00:16:18.240 Like, that's pretty much my understanding of it. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:18.960 I don't really use it. 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:27.600 But it's like if I'm doing, say, an AngularJS or some kind of front-end JavaScript app, I can, like, just connect to Firebase straight from my client-side code. 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.480 And then we're good. 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:31.700 It can do the various things that it needs to do. 00:16:31.700 --> 00:16:31.900 Right. 00:16:31.900 --> 00:16:37.600 So there's this place called Vaki, something like that, in Columbia. 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:40.100 And it's, like, kind of like Kickstarter, but Colombian. 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:42.740 And they had just launched. 00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:53.540 And it turned out that they had this project on there that became the largest crowdfunding campaign in Columbia by, like, collecting three times as much money as anyone ever had in the first two days. 00:16:53.540 --> 00:16:56.080 So they collected tons and tons of money. 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:02.540 They had, like, 2 million sessions, like, 20 million page views, 15,000, like, backings or whatever you call that. 00:17:02.540 --> 00:17:03.300 Sounds good, right? 00:17:03.300 --> 00:17:06.000 Well, it turns out the site was running really slow. 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.060 And the folks who built it, they were somewhat new developers. 00:17:09.060 --> 00:17:10.780 They were like, I don't know what to do to make this work. 00:17:10.780 --> 00:17:11.700 I know what. 00:17:11.700 --> 00:17:13.080 Let's just upgrade all the frameworks. 00:17:13.080 --> 00:17:14.020 We're using Angular 4. 00:17:14.020 --> 00:17:16.240 Let's upgrade to Angular 6 or something to this. 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.040 It wasn't Angular. 00:17:17.040 --> 00:17:17.520 Maybe it's React. 00:17:17.520 --> 00:17:17.840 I don't know. 00:17:17.840 --> 00:17:20.360 Whatever framework they have, they're just like, we're going to upgrade these things. 00:17:20.360 --> 00:17:20.960 Nope. 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:21.720 That didn't fix it. 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:21.920 Right? 00:17:21.980 --> 00:17:23.900 So they spent, like, a day, like, poking around. 00:17:23.900 --> 00:17:25.700 And it was still running slow. 00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:27.200 And it kept slowing down more and more. 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.460 They couldn't figure out what's going on. 00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:30.240 And they logged into their Firebase account. 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.280 And they saw their bill was, like, $30,000. 00:17:32.280 --> 00:17:36.300 It was costing $600 an hour more every hour. 00:17:36.300 --> 00:17:36.880 Oh, wow. 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:37.460 Yikes. 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:38.740 And they're like, what is going on? 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:42.180 So it was like, you know, like, Firebase, you pay on, like, the number of calls and type 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:42.340 of thing. 00:17:42.340 --> 00:17:46.080 So it turned out that they have this little part of the site, just like in Kickstarter, in 00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.300 the right, it says there's this many contributions. 00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:51.700 And currently, this much money has been, like, pledged towards this account. 00:17:51.700 --> 00:17:57.520 And I think what happened was their implementation of showing that number, it didn't, like, summit 00:17:57.520 --> 00:17:58.080 in the database. 00:17:58.080 --> 00:18:01.340 It, like, sucked down all the payments table. 00:18:01.340 --> 00:18:04.360 And then, like, added it in JavaScript. 00:18:04.360 --> 00:18:07.500 And it kept doing that to, like, keep it live or something. 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.120 Yeah, every time somebody goes and looks. 00:18:09.120 --> 00:18:09.860 Ah, yeah. 00:18:09.860 --> 00:18:10.640 Yeah, exactly. 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.840 They made, like, 40 billion requests, billion with a B, to their, like, database. 00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:17.840 And that got them, like, a $30,000 bill. 00:18:17.840 --> 00:18:19.860 Yikes. 00:18:19.860 --> 00:18:22.560 So it's pretty interesting. 00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:24.260 Worth checking out, this article. 00:18:24.260 --> 00:18:25.700 The comments are super interesting. 00:18:25.700 --> 00:18:27.020 Some of them are super supportive. 00:18:27.020 --> 00:18:28.420 And others are kind of mean. 00:18:28.420 --> 00:18:30.660 You probably wouldn't imagine this. 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:32.040 But there's a theme of testing. 00:18:32.040 --> 00:18:34.480 They should have tested better before they rolled out the site. 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:35.460 Well, yeah. 00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:37.660 But you can't test everything and foresee. 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:39.260 Yeah, you can't foresee everything. 00:18:39.260 --> 00:18:39.720 That's true. 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:40.180 Right. 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:44.040 And I'm sure it seemed fine when you tested it with, like, the 10 purchases they had in 00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:45.120 their little test project. 00:18:45.120 --> 00:18:47.380 But you put, you know, 15,000. 00:18:47.380 --> 00:18:49.360 All of a sudden, it starts to behave badly. 00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:49.760 Yeah. 00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:55.200 And I heard about somebody doing some things, like, similar, not a success story, really. 00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:01.020 Just somebody saying that they would run kind of some abuse testing against a local database 00:19:01.020 --> 00:19:02.660 or local mock service. 00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:04.660 And then set it all up. 00:19:04.660 --> 00:19:09.460 And they were going to just see how it did for abuse testing over the weekend. 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:14.220 Got back and realized that they were not testing abuse testing in the lab. 00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:16.140 They were abuse testing the live service. 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:18.460 And, yeah, similar issue. 00:19:18.460 --> 00:19:23.200 A big, huge AWS bill because of the test running all the time. 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:24.520 So auto skill is amazing. 00:19:24.520 --> 00:19:26.620 It just takes care of all the traffic you have. 00:19:26.620 --> 00:19:28.100 Yeah. 00:19:28.580 --> 00:19:28.940 Wait. 00:19:28.940 --> 00:19:29.800 What? 00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:30.840 How much does this cost? 00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:34.200 So I was thinking about this article, like, a few weeks ago. 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:35.900 I'm thinking we might cover it on this episode. 00:19:35.900 --> 00:19:38.160 And I'm thought, ah, good thing this doesn't happen to me. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.140 Never do this. 00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:40.400 Today. 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:41.680 Today. 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.040 Today. 00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:47.400 Remember, I don't know if I told the audience this, but I know I told you this when we were 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:48.440 hanging out at PyCon last year. 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:53.040 Like, for my courses, I set up a whole bunch of different video servers throughout the world. 00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:57.500 So I've got, like, one in Mumbai, one in Tokyo, one in Sydney, one in Frankfurt, and so on. 00:19:57.500 --> 00:19:57.740 Wow. 00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:00.020 And I got tired of synchronizing the files. 00:20:00.020 --> 00:20:00.260 Yeah. 00:20:00.260 --> 00:20:04.660 So I wrote this system that would automatically sync them across the world to these different 00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:05.140 locations. 00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:10.500 Well, it turned out there's a small find and replace that has to be done to adjust the 00:20:10.500 --> 00:20:12.660 location from the source to the destination servers. 00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.760 And I logged into that thing today, and it was still synchronizing just continuously. 00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:18.980 I'm like, oh, no. 00:20:18.980 --> 00:20:25.580 This server has been continuously downloading and uploading to S3 as fast as it can for two 00:20:25.580 --> 00:20:25.880 weeks. 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:26.680 Oh, no. 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.300 I'm like, what is my AWS bill? 00:20:29.300 --> 00:20:31.480 And I logged in, and it wasn't so bad. 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.840 It was, like, $300 more than normal, which is okay. 00:20:35.060 --> 00:20:39.900 But I'm just like, yeah, that pretty much is exactly just a less bad version of what 00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:40.700 happened to these guys. 00:20:40.700 --> 00:20:43.600 And it was because of bad, it was a bad file replacement. 00:20:43.600 --> 00:20:47.220 Basically, sync, the word sync was being replaced in some circumstances. 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:49.700 And I have a new course called Async. 00:20:49.700 --> 00:20:51.600 And it was taking out the sync part. 00:20:51.600 --> 00:20:53.820 And so it just, it kept going, oh, the file's not there. 00:20:53.820 --> 00:20:54.480 We've got to upload it. 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.120 File's not there. 00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:55.680 We've got to upload it. 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:57.600 You know, because they just, they mismatched. 00:20:57.600 --> 00:20:59.480 Yeah, that was bad news. 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:00.620 Oh, yeah. 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:03.800 Anyway, so it can happen to anyone. 00:21:03.800 --> 00:21:05.440 It happened to me this morning. 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.260 I fixed it, by the way. 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:08.580 Well, yeah. 00:21:08.580 --> 00:21:12.080 If you're paying for any of those services, check once in a while to make sure that. 00:21:12.080 --> 00:21:12.460 Yeah. 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:13.300 And you know what? 00:21:13.300 --> 00:21:17.240 I actually, I have, that's kind of one of the takeaways, both from the article and from 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.380 why I wanted to say that, is I have an alarm set at AWS. 00:21:20.380 --> 00:21:23.280 And it says, if my bill goes over this amount, send me an email. 00:21:23.280 --> 00:21:25.100 If my bill goes over this amount, send me an email. 00:21:25.100 --> 00:21:28.200 And I woke up and I saw that alarm as well. 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:29.840 I'm like, oh, that's not good. 00:21:29.840 --> 00:21:30.820 Yeah. 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:32.260 So anyway, it's all fine. 00:21:32.260 --> 00:21:33.320 But check it out. 00:21:33.320 --> 00:21:37.640 It's definitely worth thinking about if you do anything that is in the cloud that is based 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:39.520 on consumption by users. 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:40.460 Yeah, definitely. 00:21:40.460 --> 00:21:41.000 All right. 00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:42.500 Well, that's our main items. 00:21:42.500 --> 00:21:43.960 I have a really exciting one. 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:49.060 I wanted to get in, but actually, I just learned about it 15 minutes before we started recording. 00:21:49.060 --> 00:21:51.020 So I didn't have time to dig into it. 00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:56.080 So news is, Dropbox, Dropbox is one of the biggest users of Python, as we know. 00:21:56.080 --> 00:22:00.980 And they have been stuck on Python 2 for what seems like eternity, which is so ironic because 00:22:00.980 --> 00:22:02.160 Gita Van Rossum works there. 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.360 And some of the other core developers that work there is like, yeah, Python 2 all day. 00:22:06.600 --> 00:22:07.780 You know, got to love it. 00:22:07.780 --> 00:22:08.000 Right. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.500 So the big news is, as of yesterday, Dropbox is now upgraded to Python 3. 00:22:12.500 --> 00:22:15.100 And they have like a nice article right up on it. 00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:16.400 We'll cover it in more depth next week. 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:19.080 But I'm going to link to it now since it's timely and important. 00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:20.120 That's so cool, though. 00:22:20.120 --> 00:22:20.560 Yeah. 00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:21.220 Very neat. 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:21.440 Yeah. 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:22.860 What about conferences? 00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:24.760 Well, we just got an announcement. 00:22:24.760 --> 00:22:30.620 I think I just saw this today that the call for proposals for the 2019 PyCon is now open. 00:22:30.620 --> 00:22:31.260 Oh, really? 00:22:31.260 --> 00:22:31.680 Yeah. 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:32.620 That's pretty awesome. 00:22:32.620 --> 00:22:36.900 So you can get started on your proposals for next year. 00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:37.300 Yeah. 00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:38.660 I'm thinking about those for sure. 00:22:38.660 --> 00:22:40.620 I definitely have some stuff I want to propose. 00:22:40.620 --> 00:22:41.600 So thanks. 00:22:41.600 --> 00:22:41.900 Yeah. 00:22:41.900 --> 00:22:43.500 See, I learned about stuff right here on the show. 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:44.540 All I got to do is just sit here. 00:22:44.540 --> 00:22:44.720 Yeah. 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.840 And the PyCascades is still open, too. 00:22:46.840 --> 00:22:47.720 Yeah. 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:48.280 Until October. 00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:48.680 Yeah. 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.900 So it's proposal time, I guess. 00:22:50.900 --> 00:22:52.340 It's definitely proposal time. 00:22:52.340 --> 00:22:54.100 Also, PyTennessee. 00:22:54.100 --> 00:22:57.120 I can't go, but I know that they have their call for proposals open as well. 00:22:57.120 --> 00:22:58.400 So there's lots of conferences. 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:01.740 You know, conferences are a spring-summer type thing a lot of times. 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:04.340 And so the call for proposals are, you know, sort of now. 00:23:04.340 --> 00:23:04.680 Yeah. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:09.700 I mean, you know, why not spend your holiday season coming up with things to... 00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:09.960 Yeah. 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:12.060 That's what I'm doing on Thanksgiving for sure. 00:23:12.060 --> 00:23:13.060 Maybe Halloween as well. 00:23:13.060 --> 00:23:13.840 My kids will love it. 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:14.740 You know what's scary? 00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:15.760 This talk's going to be scary. 00:23:15.760 --> 00:23:17.340 No, Dad, I want to get candy. 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:19.360 This is even better than candy. 00:23:19.360 --> 00:23:22.440 No, if you wait until Halloween, you'll miss the PyCascades. 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:23.300 You got to do that before. 00:23:23.300 --> 00:23:23.800 That's true. 00:23:23.800 --> 00:23:24.380 Yeah, that's true. 00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:25.000 I can't do that. 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:25.280 All right. 00:23:25.280 --> 00:23:25.560 Anyway. 00:23:25.560 --> 00:23:26.860 No, I won't wait. 00:23:26.860 --> 00:23:27.580 You got one more? 00:23:27.580 --> 00:23:28.020 Worse? 00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:28.600 I got one more. 00:23:28.940 --> 00:23:35.120 So I just released, like, literally an hour and 15 minutes ago or so, released a new course 00:23:35.120 --> 00:23:37.420 called Async Techniques and Examples in Python. 00:23:37.420 --> 00:23:40.380 And this one is something I'm super excited about. 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:44.960 I've been wanting this course to exist ever since I started in Python. 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:48.020 And I've decided that I'm going to put in the time to create it. 00:23:48.020 --> 00:23:52.140 And so I just launched a five-hour course on all the async things in Python. 00:23:52.340 --> 00:23:53.700 Oh, that's very exciting. 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.160 Because I want to learn all the async things in Python. 00:23:56.160 --> 00:23:57.320 So I'll have to check that out. 00:23:57.320 --> 00:23:58.600 Well, I have a resource to recommend. 00:23:58.600 --> 00:23:58.840 Yeah. 00:23:58.840 --> 00:23:59.920 So I put the link in the show notes. 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:02.400 People can check it out at training.talkpython.fm. 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.180 Should be in the course list. 00:24:04.180 --> 00:24:04.540 Nice. 00:24:04.540 --> 00:24:05.200 Cool. 00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:05.840 Yep, definitely. 00:24:05.840 --> 00:24:06.960 All right, Brian. 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:09.340 Thanks for being here and sharing this with everyone. 00:24:09.340 --> 00:24:10.020 Yeah, thank you. 00:24:10.020 --> 00:24:10.360 You bet. 00:24:10.360 --> 00:24:10.580 Bye. 00:24:10.580 --> 00:24:10.760 Bye. 00:24:10.760 --> 00:24:13.660 Thank you for listening to Python Bytes. 00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:16.220 Follow the show on Twitter via at Python Bytes. 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:19.120 That's Python Bytes as in B-Y-T-E-S. 00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:22.560 And get the full show notes at pythonbytes.fm. 00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:26.880 If you have a news item you want featured, just visit pythonbytes.fm and send it our way. 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:29.620 We're always on the lookout for sharing something cool. 00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:32.980 On behalf of myself and Brian Okken, this is Michael Kennedy. 00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:36.600 Thank you for listening and sharing this podcast with your friends and colleagues.