WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:04.480 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:11.460 to your earbuds. This is episode 440, recorded July 15th, 2025. I am Michael Kennedy. 00:00:11.730 --> 00:00:12.620 And I am Brian Okken. 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:18.940 And this episode is brought to you by Propel Auth. I'm going to tell you more about them later, but 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:23.940 make Auth easy for your app and don't spend time on things that are not your core 00:00:24.510 --> 00:00:29.540 value proposition. Get Auth by your apps with them. Links to the top of your podcast player show notes. 00:00:29.900 --> 00:00:33.780 if you want to connect with us brian i don't even know where people should connect with us anymore 00:00:34.280 --> 00:00:41.260 we're on mastodon we're on blue sky we're here on youtube people can comment on the youtube channel 00:00:41.620 --> 00:00:45.660 on the youtube video that actually is a place that a lot of the feedback happens so any of those 00:00:45.860 --> 00:00:52.519 places and if you want to be part of the live show pythonbytes.fm live usually mondays at 10 a.m 00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:56.860 Today, we're 25 hours later, I guess. 00:00:56.890 --> 00:00:57.320 I don't know. 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:01.880 Tuesday, because sometimes life intervenes, but generally Monday at 10 a.m. 00:01:02.180 --> 00:01:07.700 And if you want a really nice summary and a little bit of extra information around the 00:01:07.850 --> 00:01:12.700 episode, not just a rehash of the show notes, but something different, be sure to sign up 00:01:13.180 --> 00:01:14.360 for the Friends of the Show. 00:01:14.520 --> 00:01:17.540 Just visit pythonbytes.fm, newsletter button right in the front. 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:18.420 Enter your email. 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:19.460 We'll treat it kindly. 00:01:19.950 --> 00:01:21.280 We won't share it or sell it. 00:01:21.360 --> 00:01:23.540 But we will send you cool stuff. 00:01:24.220 --> 00:01:25.180 Brian puts together for you. 00:01:25.940 --> 00:01:27.040 Speaking of cool things, Brian, 00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:29.440 let's switch over to you and see what we're talking about. 00:01:29.860 --> 00:01:30.020 Okay. 00:01:30.270 --> 00:01:32.660 Well, I want to, let's see. 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:34.720 First, I want to add something to the screen. 00:01:34.880 --> 00:01:35.220 How do I do? 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:36.580 There we go. 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:40.120 I want to bring up a rehash an old episode. 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:44.320 So in episode 438, so just a couple episodes ago, 00:01:44.860 --> 00:01:49.320 one of the things we talked about was I talked about Durinv. 00:01:50.180 --> 00:01:50.780 Where was that at? 00:01:51.020 --> 00:01:57.000 there's a lot of stuff on the show notes. Anyway, my CLI world from Frank Wiles. And one of the 00:01:57.080 --> 00:02:01.720 things was during and, and so I've been thinking about it also while we're here, I'll 00:02:01.720 --> 00:02:07.340 just go ahead and show people that, you can see the stuff, cool stuff like my book, your course 00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:12.680 and, where do people subscribe again? people subscribe right at the top. Oh, 00:02:13.060 --> 00:02:17.380 be part of the live show and scroll down and there's, newsletter right there. 00:02:17.420 --> 00:02:27.340 Anyway, so I wanted to talk about the dir env a little bit again, and I think I may have said what it's not before. 00:02:27.850 --> 00:02:31.140 So dir env is just a tool. 00:02:31.290 --> 00:02:33.140 It says unclutter your.profile. 00:02:33.500 --> 00:02:46.920 And the main thing people use it for is these.envrc files or optionally.env files that basically use that to load up environmental variables when you go into a directory. 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:48.920 That's really mostly it. 00:02:49.580 --> 00:02:54.000 But in Python world, we use that also to do other work. 00:02:54.380 --> 00:02:56.920 I guess everybody else uses it to do other work as well. 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:01.440 But one of the things we do is invoke virtual environments when you go in. 00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:04.940 And that's really what I'll be using it for. 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:09.140 So I really want to talk about, where is this? 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:10.300 Trey Hunters. 00:03:11.880 --> 00:03:12.620 There it is. 00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:18.000 Trey Hunter's blog post called, and this is an older one from, oh, not too old, last year, 00:03:18.600 --> 00:03:24.180 switching from virtual inv wrapper to Durinv, Starship, and uv. Well, I don't really care about 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:30.160 the from virtual inv wrapper because I didn't use it before. So I'm thinking this is just switching 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:39.279 to Durinv and uv. And when reading this, and I can't remember who brought this up, but when 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:44.480 reading this, it brings up a lot of the things that I didn't like about DuraEnv the first time I 00:03:44.620 --> 00:03:49.480 tried it. And Trey fixes all of those things. So let's look at a few of the things that he fixes. 00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:56.740 So he does talk about making it work with ZShell. I've made it work with Bash as well. So it works 00:03:56.940 --> 00:04:02.880 fine with most of the, at least all the Linux type shells that I've used. So the first off, 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:08.239 the default doesn't show you the virtual environment prompt because DuraEnv doesn't 00:04:08.260 --> 00:04:10.400 allow you to modify the shell prompt. 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:12.800 So how do you get around that? 00:04:13.640 --> 00:04:21.840 And there's just a short script that Trey wrote to put in your zshellrc or in your bashrc 00:04:21.910 --> 00:04:22.100 file. 00:04:22.460 --> 00:04:25.640 And then now your prompt is back where it shows your virtual environment. 00:04:25.710 --> 00:04:26.240 So that's cool. 00:04:26.520 --> 00:04:32.220 Also, apparently the default is to put the virtual environments replaced in a different 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.080 directory, like a.durinv Python 312. 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:38.800 And that's not, I mean, I don't know about most people, 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:41.900 but at least me, I've always just stuck my virtual environment 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.040 right in the project directory that I'm working on. 00:04:44.280 --> 00:04:47.540 So he has some switches for that. 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:50.240 Also, Durinv, when you enter and exit, 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:53.700 it is very verbose about telling you that it's loading stuff. 00:04:53.960 --> 00:04:56.320 You can turn that off, shows you how to turn that off. 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.400 And then that's just the Durinv setup. 00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:03.940 And he's with virtual environments, 00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:08.460 but he's set it up with uv next. 00:05:08.690 --> 00:05:13.160 So after that, it's uv and showing how to use all of this with uv. 00:05:13.690 --> 00:05:16.440 The thing that I think is kind of one of the things I wanted to point out 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:18.820 that's pretty cool that I don't know if we've talked about 00:05:19.220 --> 00:05:21.340 is when you're creating a virtual environment with uv, 00:05:21.790 --> 00:05:25.200 you don't get pip with it because you're going to use 00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:28.880 UV pip install instead of pip install. 00:05:29.210 --> 00:05:33.680 However, some tools, some extra tools need it to be there for some reason. 00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:39.360 And so you can say --seed, which it probably does other stuff too, but it adds 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:40.560 pip to your virtual environment. 00:05:41.020 --> 00:05:43.980 So it'd be kind of cool if it just said --pip or something. 00:05:44.140 --> 00:05:44.780 Seed works. 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:46.140 You just have to know that. 00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:49.680 Anyway, that's as far as I'm going to get so far. 00:05:50.140 --> 00:05:51.680 He's also talking about Starship. 00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:57.440 And I guess I think I will follow the Starship tutorial too, because one of the things I like 00:05:57.580 --> 00:06:00.620 is he is, he likes, he teaches people a lot. 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:05.900 So he doesn't want his shell prompt to be too crazy. 00:06:07.400 --> 00:06:12.280 And so he's going to have a fairly boring Starship configuration. 00:06:13.020 --> 00:06:16.160 And I'm glad because I'd like to see how to do it boring first 00:06:16.580 --> 00:06:18.580 and then look at his other stuff. 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:19.940 Yeah, those things can be overwhelming. 00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:23.240 But I really like having some of these things, 00:06:23.390 --> 00:06:25.940 like a prompt that shows you which virtual environment is active, 00:06:26.460 --> 00:06:28.060 which version of Python you're using. 00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.760 It's really neat. 00:06:29.980 --> 00:06:30.120 Yeah. 00:06:30.500 --> 00:06:34.120 Yeah, anyway, so if you've tried Durinvib before and it sort of annoyed you, 00:06:34.870 --> 00:06:36.660 maybe this tutorial might be for you. 00:06:37.180 --> 00:06:38.640 It might be for me as well. 00:06:38.650 --> 00:06:40.280 I haven't, I'm not entirely sure. 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:44.900 I recently updated, I used all my zshell plus warp, 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.040 which warp is a super cool terminal thing. 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:52.340 And for some reason, things weren't working quite the way that I was expecting. 00:06:52.980 --> 00:06:58.000 And with some of my Python virtual environment stuff installed versus system Python, 00:06:58.300 --> 00:06:59.400 That was really, it was odd. 00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:01.620 I think I was running pytest from the wrong place 00:07:01.690 --> 00:07:02.440 or something like that. 00:07:02.450 --> 00:07:03.360 And it was driving me nuts. 00:07:03.390 --> 00:07:04.640 And I didn't realize, I don't know, 00:07:04.700 --> 00:07:08.040 I think I had pytest extensions installed into, 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:10.800 plugins installed into a different place 00:07:10.910 --> 00:07:11.880 than I was trying to run it from. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:13.080 And that was the challenge. 00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:16.080 But I recently added to my profile, 00:07:16.340 --> 00:07:17.920 this thing will automatically activate 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:20.480 virtual environments if you go into a place 00:07:20.620 --> 00:07:22.080 that's got somewhere in the directory tree 00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:22.760 of virtual environment. 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.040 And if you CD out of it, 00:07:25.080 --> 00:07:26.460 it'll automatically deactivate it, 00:07:26.580 --> 00:07:27.980 which is pretty dirty and V, 00:07:28.140 --> 00:07:31.400 But I ended up doing that just with like a simple bash function. 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:31.880 Cool. 00:07:32.220 --> 00:07:36.840 So anyway, I, however you go about it, I totally, totally recommend it because I 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:41.200 can see here exactly all the git status, all the, you know, the branch, everything. 00:07:41.340 --> 00:07:41.780 It's great. 00:07:42.460 --> 00:07:43.380 That's not what I want to talk about. 00:07:43.460 --> 00:07:44.700 That was just a fun little follow up. 00:07:44.940 --> 00:07:49.780 what I want to talk about something from them Lou and they say, Hey there, 00:07:50.280 --> 00:07:52.180 here's a cool topic for Python. 00:07:52.700 --> 00:07:56.759 So we've all heard of SQLite and almost all of us have SQLite 00:07:56.780 --> 00:08:01.860 installed knowingly or unknowingly because Python itself ships with SQLite. 00:08:02.340 --> 00:08:05.120 It builds itself as the world's most popular database. 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:08.640 I think Excel might be the world's most popular database, but you know, 00:08:08.900 --> 00:08:09.500 pretty close, right? 00:08:09.820 --> 00:08:09.940 Yeah. 00:08:10.260 --> 00:08:15.500 They can, they're definitely Titans, but the story you're told is I'm 00:08:15.620 --> 00:08:20.980 using SQLite for development or like a local storage, like a local settings 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.820 file for an app, but it's not appropriate for production. 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:31.060 This thing I'm about to talk about called RQL Lite instead of SQL Lite is pretty neat. 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:34.900 And that's what Demi recommended, distributed SQL Lite. 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:36.479 Written and go, but who cares? 00:08:36.539 --> 00:08:38.120 You can use it however you want, right? 00:08:38.999 --> 00:08:42.719 So come down here and let me open up their main website here. 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:46.280 So rqlite.io. 00:08:46.660 --> 00:08:48.640 And if you go over here, you can see that it's got a couple of things. 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.160 Vault tolerance, high availability, SQL Lite. 00:08:52.400 --> 00:08:53.380 How crazy is that? 00:08:53.900 --> 00:09:00.240 So basically what it is, is it's a data access layer on top of SQLite, but it also sets up 00:09:00.900 --> 00:09:04.440 distributed, a distributed version of SQLite with replication. 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:05.660 Oh, wow. 00:09:06.540 --> 00:09:07.520 Isn't that crazy? 00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:08.700 Yeah, that's awesome. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.580 Yeah, I think it's super cool. 00:09:11.030 --> 00:09:17.120 So yeah, replacing Postgres with RQLite has simplified the software we ship to customers, 00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:18.520 says Mark Campbell. 00:09:18.900 --> 00:09:20.680 Yeah, so you come in there and see some of the things it does. 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:27.440 deploy in seconds, nothing complex to run. And then it gives you basically an HTTP API to talk 00:09:27.560 --> 00:09:31.940 to the database because it might live somewhere else in a cluster, right? But that really routes 00:09:32.030 --> 00:09:37.080 just internally to SQLite and it integrates with Docker Kubernetes super easily. Full text search, 00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:43.640 vector search, JSON documents, lots of different things. So if you up here to, I think getting 00:09:44.060 --> 00:09:49.660 started, you got quick start. Yeah. It talks about you just, there's different ways you can install it. 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:54.940 You could brew install the thing, or this is the way I've been doing all of my database servers 00:09:55.220 --> 00:10:03.020 lately, all my server type things, you know, Nginx, MongoDB, et cetera, Postgres is to just run a 00:10:03.230 --> 00:10:07.860 local version using Docker. So I don't have to install it or have it mess with my machine. So 00:10:07.930 --> 00:10:12.420 instead of brew install, I would just Docker run this thing and give it a volume and it's good to 00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:16.859 go, right? Persistent volume. So you don't lose the data. And then you just talk to it a lot like 00:10:16.920 --> 00:10:23.080 SQLite, but you can create a cluster of them, which is what's wild. And in the example they show, 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:27.160 it's like, look, this is all local hosts, but you probably would set them up to be running 00:10:27.670 --> 00:10:34.520 in different places, which is, it's pretty wild. So you also have got like all the rules around 00:10:35.220 --> 00:10:39.300 eventual versus strong consistency and everything you do with clusters. So they've got a nice little 00:10:39.410 --> 00:10:43.980 write-up on trade-offs you can make for like reliability, performance, staleness, et cetera, 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:46.460 client libraries, Python ones, 00:10:47.460 --> 00:10:50.100 IRQL, RQ Lite, and so on. 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:51.280 One for SQLAlchemy. 00:10:51.860 --> 00:10:52.800 Yeah, a lot of neat stuff here. 00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:55.900 If you're looking for a distributed database 00:10:56.700 --> 00:10:57.720 and you're using SQL Lite, 00:10:57.850 --> 00:10:58.940 I think people should look at this. 00:10:59.300 --> 00:11:01.880 And thanks to them, Lou, for sending this in. 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:04.600 Actually, a hook into the SQLAlchemy 00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:06.620 to RQ Lite is pretty cool. 00:11:07.260 --> 00:11:08.680 Yeah, it's pretty neat. 00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:10.780 Yeah, you got read-only nodes 00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:12.160 and all sorts of different things 00:11:12.270 --> 00:11:13.700 about how you can set up the clusters. 00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:15.420 You don't have to do clusters, by the way, 00:11:15.490 --> 00:11:17.580 if you want to just run a single instance of it, 00:11:17.590 --> 00:11:18.760 it says plenty of people do that. 00:11:19.210 --> 00:11:21.060 But if you want to have like the fault tolerance, 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.200 high availability, then, you know, set up a cluster. 00:11:23.520 --> 00:11:24.200 Cool. Neat. 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:26.000 Do you know what else is awesome? 00:11:26.400 --> 00:11:27.840 I would guess that it's our sponsor. 00:11:28.380 --> 00:11:29.760 Yes. PropelAuth. 00:11:29.990 --> 00:11:31.860 This episode is sponsored by PropelAuth. 00:11:32.420 --> 00:11:34.760 PropelAuth is the easiest way to turn authentication 00:11:35.380 --> 00:11:36.020 into your advantage. 00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:37.760 For B2B SaaS companies, 00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:39.980 great authentication is non-negotiable, 00:11:40.250 --> 00:11:41.300 but it can often be a hassle. 00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:43.600 With PropelAuth, it's more than just functional. 00:11:43.680 --> 00:11:50.000 it's powerful. PropelAuth comes with tools like managed UIs, enterprise SSO, robust user management 00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:56.120 features, and actionable insights. As your product grows, PropelAuth adapts with it, supporting more 00:11:56.300 --> 00:12:01.800 advanced authentication features. And the best part, PropelAuth has native support for major 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:06.860 Python libraries like FastAPI, Flask, and Django. You can easily integrate them into your product. 00:12:07.300 --> 00:12:12.699 When auth is effortless, your team can focus on scaling, not troubleshooting. That means more 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:17.560 releases, happier customers, and more growth for your business. Check them out to get started today. 00:12:17.790 --> 00:12:23.180 The link is in your podcast player show notes. It's a clickable chapter URL as you're hearing 00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:28.820 this segment, and it's at the top of the episode page at pythonbytes.fm. Thank you to PropelAuth 00:12:28.850 --> 00:12:34.120 for supporting Python Bytes. Yes, definitely. Thank you. Thank you. Now, Brian, I feel like I've 00:12:34.860 --> 00:12:40.719 snuck this one out from under you, this next one I want to talk about. Okay. We have a Python 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:45.200 dictionary that can report which keys you used and which ones you did not use. 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.240 Why do I feel like I got this from you? 00:12:47.260 --> 00:12:49.280 This is like perfect for testing. 00:12:50.060 --> 00:12:50.420 Okay. 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:58.400 So imagine I'm working with an API or some kind of data reporting library and you send it some 00:12:58.580 --> 00:12:59.740 kind of dictionary, right? 00:13:00.060 --> 00:13:04.480 And you want to make sure, like, I want to make sure that it uses these three important pieces 00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:07.000 of information that are contained in the dictionary. 00:13:07.520 --> 00:13:12.620 and if you run your code run either through a test or however you want to but probably through a test 00:13:12.980 --> 00:13:17.620 then you could ask which keys were used and which ones were not used and if one you're like nope 00:13:17.900 --> 00:13:21.700 it's really important that they take this piece of information into account and you see that it's not 00:13:21.780 --> 00:13:27.440 used well that's a pretty big hint that something's going on and you might say like we'll just mock it 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:33.139 out and we can check but it's not that the function is called it's that the function is called with a 00:13:33.140 --> 00:13:38.860 certain combination of different parameters over time, which I think is where it gets tricky, 00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:43.920 right? It's not like get item was called or get is called. It's that get was called with these 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:47.880 seven values, but not this eighth value, right? And that's kind of like where I think this has, 00:13:48.260 --> 00:13:54.180 at least as far as I know, kind of a unique idea. Yeah, that's pretty neat. Now, what I'm pointing 00:13:54.400 --> 00:14:02.079 at is this blog post by Peter Bankson, and it's very nice, but it's also very short. And it's not 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:08.480 like exactly a python package you just uv pip install and then run with it instead it's more of 00:14:08.640 --> 00:14:14.900 just a simple little dictionary that people wrote and then you can just access like what keys were 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:21.460 accessed which keys were not accessed and it's got some sweet uh step operations for that right like 00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:25.600 the difference of a set and so on yeah so you might want to you might want to extend this a 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:30.319 little bit right like copy this in for example one of the things they note um and there's some nice 00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:34.800 comment the comment conversation at the bottom one of the things missing is this works for square 00:14:34.940 --> 00:14:41.100 bracket access which calls dunder get item but not dot get access but you know what if you look at 00:14:41.180 --> 00:14:46.500 the way that get item is implemented and you rewrite the one that does get i'll tell you what 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:51.300 it's like three lines of code and it's super easy right like there's it basically just captures a key 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:57.599 that was used into a set and then delegates to the underlying dictionary implementation so there's 00:14:57.620 --> 00:14:58.560 not a lot going on there. 00:14:58.900 --> 00:14:59.020 Right. 00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:00.540 So you can add that out. 00:15:00.780 --> 00:15:03.920 Another thing that's nice is, there was a conversation about what would this 00:15:03.950 --> 00:15:06.660 look like if it was a typed tracking dictionary? 00:15:07.780 --> 00:15:12.240 And so, someone in the comments provided a, a typed version with 00:15:12.680 --> 00:15:13.400 multiple generics. 00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:13.900 How about that? 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:14.460 Okay. 00:15:14.900 --> 00:15:15.400 Yeah, sure. 00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:15.620 Yeah. 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:16.320 Yeah. 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:21.020 So I think, you would definitely want to add the dot get function to this, but 00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:24.040 like I said, just, it's like three lines of Python and it's not hard. 00:15:24.760 --> 00:15:25.800 So check that out. 00:15:25.900 --> 00:15:28.000 But yeah, I think this is a neat idea. 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:33.120 If you're looking to test how a dictionary is being used on a key by key basis. 00:15:33.620 --> 00:15:38.040 Yeah, it seems like it's ripe for a small tracking dictionary package. 00:15:38.540 --> 00:15:39.060 Yeah, exactly. 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:44.760 I think this is going to be like a sweet kernel of an idea for somebody who wants to put something on PyPI. 00:15:44.860 --> 00:15:45.980 And I put this in the show notes. 00:15:46.380 --> 00:15:48.400 Maybe someone wants to polish it up and put it on PyPI. 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:49.560 That person is not me. 00:15:52.880 --> 00:15:53.460 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:54.920 Or me, that person is Brian. 00:15:55.500 --> 00:15:58.100 Exactly. I don't, but maybe someone else does. 00:15:58.300 --> 00:15:59.180 Yeah. Okay. 00:15:59.800 --> 00:16:02.640 Well, we are streaming this episode, 00:16:03.220 --> 00:16:06.640 and I would also like to talk about streaming Markdown. 00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:09.220 It's a transition there. Yeah. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.440 Anyway, so Will McGugan reported a few days ago 00:16:15.860 --> 00:16:19.720 that the textual that he and his team are working. 00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:21.520 I guess I'm not sure if there's a team there anymore. 00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:25.240 But anyway, textual has a new version out. 00:16:25.380 --> 00:16:31.520 4.0.0. So what's the, what's the big change? The big change is a markdown append. So this is kind 00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:36.840 of a neat thing. I thought it was cool to have, to be able to see if we can get this to run. 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:43.480 The gist of it is that you've got a markdown. You can report to a markdown widget that as you append 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:49.659 to it, it just keeps going. So you can in real time, add stuff to it and it just sort of scrolls 00:16:49.680 --> 00:16:57.220 down. Anyway, that's the big thing. Maybe you don't care about this, but I brought this up. 00:16:58.160 --> 00:17:03.340 That's like all of our topics, but I brought this up because I really like the thing that he did 00:17:03.700 --> 00:17:10.000 in bumping the major version. So he says why, the reason for the major version bump is because 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:14.380 while he was implementing this, there was a different, another part of the interface, 00:17:14.780 --> 00:17:19.560 widget anchor that already existed and that has changed semantics. 00:17:19.900 --> 00:17:24.060 So he, and it works better also, but the semantics changed, 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:26.579 changed, caused the major version bump. 00:17:26.900 --> 00:17:28.459 I wish more people did this. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.420 I think that a lot of people only change the major version if they change the 00:17:33.940 --> 00:17:37.420 actual signature, the API signature. 00:17:38.360 --> 00:17:41.820 And I think that behavior changes are completely, 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.160 They're even more important to change the version 00:17:44.500 --> 00:17:46.980 because it's going to sort of run fine. 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:48.540 It's just going to do something different. 00:17:48.800 --> 00:17:51.840 And that's something you really want to point out to users. 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:53.520 So applaud him for doing that. 00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:57.100 Yeah, Brian, I remember when I first learned C++ 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.020 and I had some, for me at the time, complicated program. 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.000 I was so proud of myself when I got it to compile. 00:18:03.320 --> 00:18:03.420 Yeah. 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:04.420 Then its behavior. 00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:06.440 I had to figure out all the bugs. 00:18:06.520 --> 00:18:07.660 And this is kind of like that, right? 00:18:07.700 --> 00:18:11.780 It's like it technically still has the same API signature, 00:18:12.120 --> 00:18:16.060 But it's down to the harder things to detect that are breaking changes, right? 00:18:16.220 --> 00:18:17.400 Which is semantics and behavior. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:18.400 Yeah. 00:18:18.840 --> 00:18:24.480 And that's the real one that gets you is if it seems like it runs fine right away, 00:18:24.600 --> 00:18:28.180 but there's a major version bump, you got to check a look at your test to make sure that. 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.440 And probably it's just that you're not using WidgetHanker. 00:18:31.820 --> 00:18:33.860 And if you're not using it, you don't have to worry about it. 00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:35.520 But anyway, so there's that. 00:18:35.660 --> 00:18:38.280 And I was like, what can we stream with this? 00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:40.200 What would I want to stream into Markdown? 00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:46.820 Well, I've got another project that I wanted to highlight called HTML to Markdown. 00:18:47.260 --> 00:18:53.060 So this is a HTML converter that apparently there was another tool, which I think I ran 00:18:53.160 --> 00:19:00.540 across before called Markdownify that converts webpages or HTML stuff to Markdown. 00:19:01.560 --> 00:19:07.240 And to be able to, so I thought, and one of the features of it, okay, so they completely 00:19:07.540 --> 00:19:09.080 rewrote the fork. 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:10.120 But why? 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:16.640 There's a bunch of extra features like HTML5 support, type safety, metadata extraction. 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:23.460 And look at this, streaming support, memory efficient processing for large documents with progress callbacks. 00:19:23.820 --> 00:19:31.600 I'm curious if you could take a web scraper or something or somehow take something that's streaming HTML 00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:38.820 or use this to grab something large and have it reported to a textual widget. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.060 That'd be kind of fun. 00:19:40.300 --> 00:19:48.340 so that's very fun yeah nice i can also see if you are doing some kind of chat chat bot or llm type 00:19:48.370 --> 00:19:54.700 of thing on the textual side yeah and you wanted to output the responses in markdown like that's a 00:19:54.740 --> 00:20:00.400 real common yeah even exchange for even brings that up uh like the efficiently stream markdown 00:20:00.610 --> 00:20:07.339 content like you might get from an llm like you might yeah okay yeah makes a lot of sense so cool 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:12.500 all right hey i want to jump back to your first item real quick okay did you give this article a 00:20:12.620 --> 00:20:16.900 shout out as well because i know that you were thinking about it oh yeah i just didn't highlight 00:20:17.100 --> 00:20:22.020 it so i didn't bring it up yet so yeah there's yeah you want to talk about it yeah sure i don't 00:20:22.020 --> 00:20:26.760 know a whole lot about but it's very neat so um mario python by night also did uh it's the terminal 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:32.740 bootstrapping starship just during v and uv and talks about how you can sort of get things set up 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:37.320 with that as well so just it's already in the show notes just one more thing to throw out there 00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:41.280 Yeah, and so that's what's causing me to say, 00:20:41.360 --> 00:20:44.540 maybe I should take another look at Durinv and Starship 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.800 because other people that I admire are using it. 00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:49.700 So yeah, maybe it's worth looking at. 00:20:51.620 --> 00:20:55.260 Not like me, who just vibed my way to a turn it on, 00:20:55.420 --> 00:20:58.120 turn it off automatically sort of bash function. 00:20:58.540 --> 00:20:58.720 Yeah. 00:20:59.000 --> 00:20:59.300 You ready? 00:20:59.820 --> 00:21:03.260 Yeah, actually, you got any extras before we jump to the vibe? 00:21:03.560 --> 00:21:11.740 Well, the only extra I wanted to bring up is the reason why I'm wearing an annoyingly bright T-shirt today. 00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:15.680 Usually I do a darker color because it shows up better on the better. 00:21:16.020 --> 00:21:19.300 But this is my Oregon Country Fair shirt that I got last Friday. 00:21:19.520 --> 00:21:21.440 So I'm going to stand up so that you guys can see it. 00:21:22.100 --> 00:21:24.340 And it's a lovely Oregon Country Fair shirt. 00:21:24.580 --> 00:21:25.360 It was a blast. 00:21:26.250 --> 00:21:28.620 But I'm definitely feeling my age a little bit. 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:35.540 But we got there, it's 11 to 7, and we got there right before 11 to get a decent parking spot. 00:21:36.760 --> 00:21:39.900 But usually we get there earlier to get a decent parking spot. 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:44.340 A lot of people, it was pretty hot this weekend. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:51.520 So it's till 7 o'clock, but like, I don't know, like 3 or 4 o'clock, we were like, I think we're fried enough. 00:21:51.740 --> 00:21:52.160 Let's go home. 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:56.940 It has been very warm and very sunny in the Pacific Northwest. 00:21:57.760 --> 00:22:00.440 Contrary to what people think about the rain and the clouds. 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:05.040 Yeah, no, I think there's other parts of the country getting more rain than us right now. 00:22:05.320 --> 00:22:05.720 Oh, indeed. 00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:07.060 All right. 00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:08.060 You ready for the joke? 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:08.720 Yes. 00:22:09.260 --> 00:22:09.440 Okay. 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:10.860 So let me set the stage. 00:22:11.280 --> 00:22:13.340 I know many of you out there already know this. 00:22:13.580 --> 00:22:14.600 We've had several jokes. 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:20.280 So if you've been progressing along the joke timeline with us, you will know what vibe coding 00:22:20.520 --> 00:22:20.640 is. 00:22:20.760 --> 00:22:25.880 Just for the folks who don't though, vibe coding is when you go to an agentic programming model 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:33.780 like cursor windsurf juni for the jetbrains idees that kind of thing and you just just tell it what 00:22:33.780 --> 00:22:38.540 to do you don't need to touch the keyboard you use text to speech you just like build me this app 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.600 now i do it this way now make it that and the joke is that it comes up with a bunch of mistakes 00:22:44.140 --> 00:22:50.020 or it works on your machine but you're not enough of a programmer to actually know okay that like 00:22:50.320 --> 00:22:55.060 this might work here, but it's not really going to work. So that's the joke. And the joke is, 00:22:55.600 --> 00:22:59.160 switch back, there's an announcement for this new conference. Very exciting. 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:04.980 VibeCon. Introducing VibeCon, the world's largest vibe coding conference. Make sure you register 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:13.740 today. HTTP 127.0.0.1 colon 8080 slash register. It says VibeCoding is hard to attend. VibeCon 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:19.500 is hard to attend. That's already funny. This is on Reddit, but if you scroll down into the comments, 00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:20.540 So good. 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.460 Someone's just a sequel and backslash and vibe.html. 00:23:23.660 --> 00:23:24.600 Someone's no, no, that's wrong. 00:23:24.980 --> 00:23:28.680 File colon triple slash C colon forward slash and vibe.html. 00:23:29.060 --> 00:23:30.380 What boomer posted this? 00:23:30.800 --> 00:23:34.960 Modern vibe coders gather up at HEP bracket colon colon one. 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:36.880 You know, the IPv6. 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:38.780 That's funny. 00:23:38.860 --> 00:23:39.500 Oh my goodness. 00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:41.000 This is sweet, isn't it? 00:23:41.320 --> 00:23:45.840 Can someone give me the prompt to generate the registration form so I can sign up? 00:23:48.560 --> 00:23:49.020 That's funny. 00:23:49.340 --> 00:23:55.360 Yeah, somebody said tried to register and they took a screenshot that local, the page, you know, connection refuses. 00:23:55.560 --> 00:23:56.000 Oh my God. 00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:58.000 Tried to register for ViveCon. 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.540 I guess my vibes weren't local enough. 00:24:00.560 --> 00:24:01.540 Yeah, that's funny. 00:24:01.860 --> 00:24:02.060 Yeah. 00:24:02.380 --> 00:24:04.020 Okay, so let's say I'm dense. 00:24:04.280 --> 00:24:08.000 Why is, what is that URL, that 127.001? 00:24:08.320 --> 00:24:12.640 If you're doing web development locally, that's where it will run. 00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:13.100 Okay. 00:24:13.180 --> 00:24:16.180 I don't know what server typically picks 8080. 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.480 Maybe this is Node.js. 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:24.660 probably it is because like flask is 5 000 um some of them are 8 000 yeah so but it's definitely like 00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:30.020 if you ran it locally you said build me this thing it would work perfectly locally because this is 00:24:30.100 --> 00:24:34.400 like the dev address but obviously it's listening on the local loopback not it's not a real server 00:24:34.820 --> 00:24:43.020 i love it yeah yeah i haven't done a lot of vibe vibing lately but yeah no definitely uh vibe con 00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:49.120 is definitely hard hard to uh to attend and pat on the honest says they run a lot of local apis on 00:24:49.340 --> 00:24:56.200 8080 like internal all right well fun as always yes thanks for being here brian thanks everyone's 00:24:56.320 --> 00:25:02.580 listening and if you're not subscribed to the podcast please click follow or the subscribe for 00:25:02.650 --> 00:25:07.780 free whatever your podcast app button says to you know keep getting automatic downloads to our free 00:25:07.860 --> 00:25:13.000 podcast and if you're not subscribed on youtube you want to get notified you want to catch the 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:18.620 things and all the stuff we're doing here go over there and subscribe as well thanks and bye all