WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.480 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:04.860 --> 00:00:12.080 This is episode 441, recorded July 21st, 2025, and I am Brian Okken. 00:00:12.260 --> 00:00:14.460 Who am I? I am Michael Kennedy. Hello, everyone. 00:00:14.700 --> 00:00:17.560 This episode is sponsored by DigitalOcean. Thank you, DigitalOcean. 00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:19.620 Hear about them later in the show. 00:00:19.840 --> 00:00:24.320 If you'd like to give us some topics for the show or just ask us questions or connect, 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:31.560 The links to Mastodon and Bluesky are in the show notes and on our webpage, pythonbytes.fm. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:35.700 While you're there, you may as well go ahead and sign up for our newsletter, 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.700 or we'll send you links for the show afterwards. 00:00:40.720 --> 00:00:45.800 And I apologize, because last week was a little late, because I've been sick, but I am bitter now. 00:00:46.899 --> 00:00:52.940 And if you'd like to join the show, we do post it live, usually Tuesday mornings. 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:56.700 Monday, no, Monday mornings, sorry, Monday mornings at 10. 00:00:57.090 --> 00:00:57.860 It used to be Tuesday. 00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:03.220 But just go ahead and go over to pythonbytes.fm/live 00:01:03.340 --> 00:01:04.920 and it'll tell you when the next one is. 00:01:05.740 --> 00:01:07.980 And then even if we change it, you can see there. 00:01:08.980 --> 00:01:10.320 Yeah, so let's kick it off. 00:01:10.330 --> 00:01:11.480 What do you got for us, Michael? 00:01:12.259 --> 00:01:15.000 Let's do some follow-up for our first item here. 00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:19.540 So remember, last week I talked about RQ Lite, 00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:25.000 the lightweight user-friendly distributed relational database built on SQLite. 00:01:25.380 --> 00:01:27.000 And that was pretty cool. 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:31.800 You could build fault-tolerant relational databases in clusters, 00:01:32.500 --> 00:01:36.140 even potentially geo-distributed using SQLite. 00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:40.140 Well, as always, our wonderful listeners are like, 00:01:40.600 --> 00:01:41.060 that's cool. 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:42.160 Did you know about? 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:43.040 Right? 00:01:43.360 --> 00:01:43.540 Yeah. 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:44.460 I love that though. 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:44.820 Yeah. 00:01:45.020 --> 00:01:45.460 I do too. 00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:45.780 Yeah. 00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.200 Thank you. 00:01:46.860 --> 00:01:49.080 So two people wrote in and said, 00:01:49.180 --> 00:01:55.000 did you know about? And one was Michael Booth. And Michael Booth said, you should check out 00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:04.280 Terso, the next evolution of SQLite. So Terso is interesting in that it is kind of like SQLite, 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:11.500 but rewritten in Rust with the idea that it can be a distributed database type of thing. Also, 00:02:12.160 --> 00:02:18.700 adding some of these AI features, as in vector search and other things that you need to be able 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:20.380 to support working with AI. 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:21.980 So pretty cool. 00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:23.920 If you look through the website, 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:26.920 it's like their proper tercio.tech, 00:02:27.420 --> 00:02:29.320 which it's cool, but I don't know. 00:02:29.440 --> 00:02:32.520 It kind of leaves it a little bit unsure 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:34.780 like what exactly it is. 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.500 But like, what is this relation to SQLite, right? 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:40.980 So it's, go over to their GitHub, 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:42.900 it's a little bit clearer, right? 00:02:42.980 --> 00:02:44.600 So it has SQLite compatibility. 00:02:44.720 --> 00:02:48.660 It is not based on SQLite like RQ Lite is, 00:02:49.040 --> 00:02:51.220 but it has language biodeans for Python 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:53.920 and other, maybe some of these other languages 00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:56.660 people have heard of like Java and JavaScript and so on. 00:02:56.940 --> 00:02:59.500 But it has asyncio support, which is really cool. 00:02:59.790 --> 00:03:02.020 And you might say, well, it's SQLite. 00:03:02.140 --> 00:03:03.440 Can it really have asyncio support? 00:03:04.040 --> 00:03:06.220 Yes, at least on Linux. 00:03:06.330 --> 00:03:08.980 It uses IO Uring to make that happen, 00:03:09.130 --> 00:03:11.480 but it runs on all the server or all the platforms. 00:03:11.730 --> 00:03:13.260 So you can like develop on macOS, 00:03:13.380 --> 00:03:16.120 but then you get better perf on Linux, for example. 00:03:16.440 --> 00:03:21.080 It also, they're working on adding a begin concurrent operation, 00:03:21.620 --> 00:03:24.680 like a SQL statement or query statement, 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:26.620 and indexing for vector search, 00:03:26.880 --> 00:03:28.520 like probably pretty much required, 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:30.420 and better alter support, right? 00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:35.380 So basically think of it as a more modern take, 00:03:35.980 --> 00:03:37.500 not just because it's rewritten in Rust, 00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:39.500 which seems to be like the thing you do, 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:41.440 but as part of that, 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:46.620 taking on a lot of ideas like concurrency others. Okay. Big question. Is it ready for production 00:03:46.780 --> 00:03:54.340 use? No, no. But these folks also worked on this thing called LibSQL. So it says that the 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:59.600 Tarot database is the next evolution of SQLite and Rust. They had previously worked on something 00:03:59.720 --> 00:04:05.320 called LibSQL, which is an attempt to evolve SQLite in a similar direction, but through a fork 00:04:05.710 --> 00:04:10.280 rather than a rewrite. And they're like, we think this new database thing is a better way to go. 00:04:10.340 --> 00:04:15.680 So if what I talked about with RQ Lite inspires you, this also might. 00:04:15.940 --> 00:04:21.000 They also have some kind of what you might expect as open core, 00:04:21.579 --> 00:04:24.720 but we'll do the infrastructure side of things for you. 00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:26.620 So they've got this thing called Terso Cloud, 00:04:26.840 --> 00:04:30.160 which is a production or a paid sort of thing, right? 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.320 So serverless access or sync or whatever you want, right? 00:04:34.460 --> 00:04:36.700 Replication, sync, vector search, all that kind of stuff. 00:04:36.880 --> 00:04:37.780 Basically managed. 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:39.420 All right, so that's thing one. 00:04:39.900 --> 00:04:41.160 the other one comes to it. 00:04:41.180 --> 00:04:41.780 This is like all, 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.720 it's all Michael. 00:04:42.900 --> 00:04:43.760 Michael's all the way down. 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:45.440 So we had Michael Booth recommend that one. 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:46.240 Got me, 00:04:46.380 --> 00:04:47.020 Michael presenting it. 00:04:47.020 --> 00:04:50.560 We got Mike Fiedler talking about the next one here. 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:52.180 And Mike Fiedler says, 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:53.340 have you heard, 00:04:53.500 --> 00:04:53.580 well, 00:04:53.880 --> 00:04:56.420 listen to the most recent Python bytes and RQ Lite. 00:04:56.620 --> 00:04:57.020 It's cool. 00:04:57.280 --> 00:04:57.760 Hadn't heard of that. 00:04:57.940 --> 00:05:01.220 Something related that might be interesting is lightstream.io. 00:05:01.700 --> 00:05:01.980 Okay. 00:05:02.060 --> 00:05:05.460 Now lightstream.io is more SQLite than before. 00:05:06.180 --> 00:05:09.020 You just keep using SQLite like the one built into Python. 00:05:09.580 --> 00:05:16.520 but you launch a little daemon that watches it and constantly syncs it with S3 or Azure Blob 00:05:16.640 --> 00:05:22.660 Storage or something like that. When you do that, what do you get? You get something pretty cool. 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:29.860 It just constantly streams changes to AWS S3, Azure Blob Storage, Google Cloud Storage, etc. 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:35.939 And that means you basically get failover. So imagine you're like, I would love to just have 00:05:35.960 --> 00:05:40.560 a SQLite database that I can run on a simple little app. 00:05:41.080 --> 00:05:42.940 But what if that server goes down? 00:05:43.270 --> 00:05:44.360 What if that server fails? 00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:50.180 Then all my data is lost from the last time I backed it up because my alternative was to 00:05:50.210 --> 00:05:54.440 run some kind of cluster of Postgres or Mongo or whatever, right? 00:05:54.510 --> 00:05:59.700 But then you're into lots of DevOps and managing those things, or you're paying for managed 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:05.300 databases, which can be relatively expensive to small servers like DigitalOcean has. 00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:09.480 And what you can do is you can just keep on using regular SQLite, 00:06:09.860 --> 00:06:11.080 but then use this Lightstream, 00:06:11.190 --> 00:06:13.620 which has no real performance differences in terms, 00:06:14.090 --> 00:06:16.900 like these other two things are like trying to change how SQLite works 00:06:16.950 --> 00:06:18.940 or re-implement the compatible API. 00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:24.980 This one just says, we promise to hook into some, 00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:26.540 I put a link in the show notes. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.940 There's a nice write-up about this that they did. 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.020 It's sort of like, why is this? 00:06:32.300 --> 00:06:35.060 And called Lightstream revamped. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.900 And it also just talks about like, why did they build this? 00:06:38.090 --> 00:06:38.700 How does it work? 00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:44.580 So it says it takes over the wall checkpointing process to continuously stream updates to 00:06:44.580 --> 00:06:44.960 the database. 00:06:45.320 --> 00:06:51.040 So basically as commits are committed to the SQLite file, it just keeps pushing that to 00:06:51.300 --> 00:06:51.700 blob storage. 00:06:52.140 --> 00:06:52.400 Cool, right? 00:06:52.740 --> 00:06:58.460 So if that RQ Lite thing was interesting, but not quite what you're looking for, maybe one 00:06:58.470 --> 00:06:59.700 of these two things is. 00:07:00.020 --> 00:07:00.280 Yeah. 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:00.900 Interesting. 00:07:01.340 --> 00:07:01.740 Pennies a day. 00:07:01.770 --> 00:07:02.280 I like that. 00:07:02.540 --> 00:07:02.840 Dirt cheap. 00:07:03.140 --> 00:07:03.240 Yeah. 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:03.620 Dirt cheap. 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:07.720 only costs pennies a day because it's just blob storage, right? 00:07:07.910 --> 00:07:09.380 So however you do that. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.680 And the Lightstream, I don't know that they, 00:07:12.970 --> 00:07:13.680 I don't see pricing. 00:07:13.830 --> 00:07:14.300 How about that? 00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:16.160 So this is just pure open source, 00:07:16.490 --> 00:07:20.480 whereas the Terso was like, 00:07:20.780 --> 00:07:22.060 you can do the open source thing yourself 00:07:22.420 --> 00:07:23.960 or we can do our cloud thing, right? 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:25.800 I don't know which of those makes you happier, 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:27.460 but they're not the same in that regard. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.840 Or they are the same with a wrapper, pay wrapper. 00:07:30.100 --> 00:07:30.300 Anyway. 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:31.120 Yeah. 00:07:32.140 --> 00:07:32.740 Okay, cool. 00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:33.320 Awesome. 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:33.880 Over to you. 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:37.280 I want to talk about project status a little bit. 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.160 So I do want to talk about this new PEP. 00:07:40.410 --> 00:07:45.000 So PEP 792 project status markers in the simple index. 00:07:45.570 --> 00:07:48.200 So project status, what is this about? 00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:51.580 So this is a new PEP that was, well, it's not right, really that. 00:07:51.820 --> 00:07:52.700 It is pretty new. 00:07:53.650 --> 00:08:00.360 So it actually updates in February of this year, and it's now accepted. 00:08:00.740 --> 00:08:02.480 So I'm going to talk about this a little bit, 00:08:02.620 --> 00:08:05.140 but I want to talk about project status and what this means. 00:08:05.330 --> 00:08:08.080 So if I take a look at a couple of my silly projects, 00:08:08.840 --> 00:08:11.340 I've got pytestCheck, which is a project I maintain, 00:08:11.940 --> 00:08:14.680 and I actually intend people to be able to use it so it's maintained. 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:17.860 And so I have added a Trove classifier 00:08:18.380 --> 00:08:21.100 to say the status of the project is production stable. 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.280 I think you can use it in production, but it's, you know, yeah. 00:08:24.640 --> 00:08:25.780 But this is optional. 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:28.220 Maintainers don't have to put this in. 00:08:28.450 --> 00:08:32.000 For instance, I also have another one called pytestCrayons 00:08:32.280 --> 00:08:39.219 i just did for a uh a talk that i gave and um i didn't put the um the status in there so that's 00:08:39.260 --> 00:08:44.200 an it's an optional thing so what we have we have in the current situation there is the trove 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:52.040 classifiers that you can optionally add to um uh to to your project and you if you like for instance 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:58.020 start taking it down you can say that it's inactive it's not but i don't think very many people do 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:03.160 that often inactive just means somebody left but it's still they haven't updated a new one that's 00:09:03.220 --> 00:09:08.380 like please close the door on your way out usually they just walk out the door so and then there's 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:13.340 also there's actually three kinds of status so there's that the trove classifiers but then there's 00:09:14.300 --> 00:09:22.440 also uh indices uh can mark uh a district can mark distributions and releases as yanked so you can 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.680 like a version you can yank. 00:09:25.040 --> 00:09:26.300 So it's not there anymore. 00:09:26.900 --> 00:09:30.480 So then it's still like got an entry there, 00:09:30.610 --> 00:09:33.320 but it's been a yanked, whether it's true or false. 00:09:34.420 --> 00:09:37.500 You know what, I've started seeing that a lot lately, actually. 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.600 Have you? 00:09:38.900 --> 00:09:40.720 At least uv pip warnings. 00:09:41.340 --> 00:09:44.280 So I'll say, you know, update the dependencies of this project, 00:09:44.540 --> 00:09:47.820 basically uv pip compile, and then I'll install the requirements. 00:09:48.350 --> 00:09:51.200 And it'll say, this thing has been yanked because of, 00:09:51.380 --> 00:09:54.520 and you don't have some reason, like broken metadata or whatever. 00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:56.660 I'm like, well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do about this 00:09:56.800 --> 00:09:57.600 because something needed it. 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:58.220 Yeah. 00:09:59.160 --> 00:09:59.340 Okay. 00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:01.220 I've not seen anything fail. 00:10:01.340 --> 00:10:04.480 I haven't seen the apps no longer run because something got that status, 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:06.100 but I've seen warnings about this now. 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:11.200 And then there's another type of status that PyPI itself 00:10:11.860 --> 00:10:13.720 can have a status for an entire project. 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.880 And the entire project can be quarantined 00:10:16.900 --> 00:10:21.440 if the administrators of PyPI think that the project has been, 00:10:22.710 --> 00:10:25.200 like, it's got, like, malware in it or something, 00:10:25.810 --> 00:10:26.980 so they can quarantine it. 00:10:27.380 --> 00:10:30.720 And also, a project owner can archive a project 00:10:30.910 --> 00:10:34.600 and say, basically, you can disable new releases. 00:10:35.860 --> 00:10:39.820 It's still around, but nobody can update to it, 00:10:40.020 --> 00:10:41.000 and it's just archived. 00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:43.300 It's there for historical purposes, I guess. 00:10:43.780 --> 00:10:45.380 Anyway, so there's three statuses, 00:10:45.420 --> 00:10:55.600 And it's a little confusing on how to use those as a as a if you had an alternative index, if you were trying to like do dependency resolution or other things. 00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:58.300 So trying to clean that up a bit. 00:10:58.340 --> 00:11:07.840 So there's really this proposals to have one project always has exactly one status and the status will be it'll be active. 00:11:08.800 --> 00:11:14.540 And then there's some semantics around that active or archived or quarantined. 00:11:15.280 --> 00:11:21.560 and deprecated and this makes sense so it's either either it's it's in use it's active or 00:11:22.100 --> 00:11:27.900 it's not um but it's also what does it not mean it's either you know there's various levels of 00:11:28.020 --> 00:11:33.540 why you can't you shouldn't use it um and i think this is um this is a way for good way forward to 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:40.059 have like to kind of consolidate these now this is this has been accepted this uh this active 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:42.740 archived, quarantined, deprecated status, 00:11:43.210 --> 00:11:44.500 and it can only be one of those. 00:11:45.500 --> 00:11:47.240 But this has been accepted. 00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:49.820 However, it's not implemented yet. 00:11:49.990 --> 00:11:52.260 So don't go out and look in PyPI 00:11:52.290 --> 00:11:53.440 to try to find this yet. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.540 So this just was accepted July 8th resolution. 00:11:58.100 --> 00:12:01.080 So we will update you further 00:12:01.350 --> 00:12:04.500 as we hear from people in the Python community 00:12:04.590 --> 00:12:05.920 that this is all implemented. 00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:06.960 Yeah, excellent. 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.420 I think I'm behind it. 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:11.180 The quarantine one is good. 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:12.740 I'm very glad I've never seen that warning. 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:19.540 And the archive one feels to me like a little bit of a supply chain safety type thing. 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:20.840 Like, I'm not going to mess with this. 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:22.140 I will never update this. 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:25.700 But let's not allow something to happen where someone else could either. 00:12:25.940 --> 00:12:27.180 Well, and I'm not sure. 00:12:27.280 --> 00:12:28.460 So I was trying to read this. 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.240 I was trying to understand kind of how it's going to be set. 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.780 So it's probably not going to be something just in the Trove classifier. 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:40.120 So it probably is going to be something that outside of the data itself. 00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:46.480 So because there's times where it's clear there's nobody updating it anymore 00:12:46.910 --> 00:12:48.580 and you can't get a hold of the maintainer, 00:12:48.790 --> 00:12:51.160 you need to be able to say, this one's dead. 00:12:52.400 --> 00:12:55.620 I think it's too bad that we don't have a better way to say, 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:00.060 but after the fact, if somebody just stops maintaining something, 00:13:00.580 --> 00:13:02.600 hey, does anybody else want to start maintaining this? 00:13:02.900 --> 00:13:05.640 I know there's security problems around that, 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:09.340 But, you know, it might be good to be able to have some things live on. 00:13:09.620 --> 00:13:12.520 But yeah, and just archiving old stuff. 00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:13.520 It's not good. 00:13:13.810 --> 00:13:14.520 Was it GitHub? 00:13:15.030 --> 00:13:25.920 I think that got into a big uproar because they decided that they're going to archive a bunch of stuff if it hadn't been updated in like years. 00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:27.120 Or was it NPM? 00:13:27.270 --> 00:13:27.540 I don't know. 00:13:27.660 --> 00:13:33.040 One of these types of places was like, if stuff doesn't get touched, people are like, hey, it's not unmaintained. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.640 It's just done. 00:13:33.920 --> 00:13:34.720 There's nothing to add. 00:13:34.800 --> 00:13:35.400 It's perfect. 00:13:35.420 --> 00:13:42.660 works. Yeah. Exactly. Cool. All right. Well, before we move on, let's talk about our sponsor, 00:13:42.760 --> 00:13:49.460 huh? Yeah. Yeah. So super excited to have DigitalOcean back to support the show. As always, 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.820 this episode is brought to you by DigitalOcean. And DigitalOcean is a comprehensive cloud 00:13:55.200 --> 00:14:00.640 infrastructure that's simple to spin up even for the most complex workloads. And it's way better 00:14:00.920 --> 00:14:05.060 value than most cloud providers. I've looked at the big three and they're not even close. 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:08.700 in how much value you get per dollar 00:14:08.810 --> 00:14:10.260 and how much easier it is to use. 00:14:10.470 --> 00:14:13.020 So at DigitalOcean, companies can save up to 30% 00:14:13.460 --> 00:14:14.360 off their cloud bill. 00:14:14.710 --> 00:14:18.640 They boast a 99.99% uptime SLA. 00:14:18.820 --> 00:14:22.960 That means they promise to support that level of uptime. 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.380 Our experience, Brian, running Python Bytes 00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:27.500 and other things on DigitalOcean for many years 00:14:27.680 --> 00:14:29.600 was way higher than four nines. 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:30.880 Really, really reliable. 00:14:31.380 --> 00:14:31.520 Love them. 00:14:31.900 --> 00:14:34.620 They also have industry-leading pricing on bandwidth. 00:14:35.140 --> 00:14:39.460 Also true, like 10 times, 8 times cheaper than AWS and Azure. 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:39.860 Really good. 00:14:40.660 --> 00:14:44.440 So it's built to be the cloud backbone of businesses, small and large. 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:51.200 And now they have GPU-powered virtual machines, plus storage, database, networking capabilities, all-in-one platform. 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.720 So AI developers can confidently create apps that their users will love. 00:14:56.020 --> 00:15:02.860 And devs have access to a complete set of infrastructure tools they need, both training and inference, so they can build anything they dream up. 00:15:03.140 --> 00:15:05.840 DigitalOcean provides full-service cloud infrastructure that's simple to use, 00:15:06.260 --> 00:15:09.880 reliable no matter the use case, and scalable for any business. 00:15:10.180 --> 00:15:13.140 So did I say good value? $4 a month for a server. 00:15:13.800 --> 00:15:16.400 That's yours. Your Linux server, USSH, too. 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--> 00:15:57.360 Now, over to you. 00:15:57.640 --> 00:16:02.620 Well, so I want to talk about testing a little bit. 00:16:03.020 --> 00:16:07.400 So Hugo van Kaminade, 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:10.520 love you, Hugo, sorry, 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:13.700 wrote a post called Run Coverage on Tests. 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.820 And this is something that I've taught everybody to do 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:21.540 or taught everybody I can get hold of their ears to do this 00:16:21.920 --> 00:16:22.700 because it's important. 00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:25.180 But I'm glad that Hugo wrote a post about it. 00:16:25.260 --> 00:16:26.620 And this was just going to be an extra. 00:16:27.180 --> 00:16:30.240 However, I was blown away by a few things here. 00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.600 And I'm like, oh, we got to make this highlighted a little bit more. 00:16:34.180 --> 00:16:37.280 So the classic reason why you should run coverage on your test 00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:41.700 is because of the copy-paste-modify problem with pytest. 00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:45.580 Because pytest really kind of, the name of the test 00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:47.400 is just sort of shows up in the reporting. 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:52.980 So it's very easy to copy my, you take an old test. 00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:55.720 And since you're not calling the test function yourself, 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.280 it's easy to copy, paste, modify, 00:16:59.760 --> 00:17:01.120 and forget to change the name. 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:02.260 And if you do that, 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.319 the second test just hides the name, 00:17:05.459 --> 00:17:06.620 it hides the first one. 00:17:08.020 --> 00:17:09.380 And that is the classic reason 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.260 why I tell people to run coverage 00:17:11.540 --> 00:17:12.540 so that you don't do this. 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:14.959 And it's hard to figure out otherwise. 00:17:16.020 --> 00:17:17.100 But a couple of cool things 00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:19.319 that I learned from this post 00:17:19.579 --> 00:17:22.939 is that Ruff's rule F811, 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:32.680 f811 catches that apparently so there is if you run ruff on your test code also with at least f811 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:40.280 turned on you'll it it checks for variables which the function name is officially a variable 00:17:41.260 --> 00:17:49.200 that are defined and and redefined or otherwise shadowed and unused so if you used a variable 00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:55.780 didn't use it and redefined it um that's just that's similar to defining a test twice so um i 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:01.020 didn't know that so i will make sure that i've got rough running on my test code also so that's cool 00:18:01.300 --> 00:18:06.260 also a tip to say hey if you're really just copy paste modifying a test maybe think about py test 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:11.060 parameterization which i agree um you might want to just parameterize the test but this is also 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:17.180 pretty common it's so common to copy paste the second example is what the one that i really was 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.460 like oh my gosh we have to cover this because i would have never i wouldn't have caught this so 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:28.820 his second example is this weird okay so it's like a he's got an image some image stuff that he's 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:35.420 testing and it's like i don't know it's i guess i'm just it's a little bit of a complicated thing 00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:40.480 you've got some colors and images and you're trying to test in the in the end you're asserting 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:46.480 whether or not images are similar of a reloaded image versus an expected image and i don't really 00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:52.760 understand what's going on here but um this isn't terrible but one of the things in here is that um 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:59.040 when he ran coverage it said that uh these two lines at the bottom are not being run at all and 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:06.200 he's got a a some images a set of images that he's iterating over and apparently there's nothing in 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:15.020 them so what's going on um and the thing that's going on apparently is uh this his his images are 00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:22.060 a generator is what's going on so he's got some images that are being uh set up as a generator so 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:28.900 like a uh you know for i in a generator comprehension yeah generator comprehension 00:19:29.250 --> 00:19:36.200 and then he passes that to a function that consumes the generator um and then uh and then when he tries 00:19:36.250 --> 00:19:42.220 to use it as the as in the assert section there's nothing there anymore and i would have never like 00:19:42.420 --> 00:19:47.780 obviously this is this is highlighted because i use generated way more than in generator 00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:53.220 comprehensions more than i used to um because they're cool um and they're efficient and if 00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:58.840 you've got huge things they use up less memory so i'm using them more and more and i probably am 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:05.280 using in my test i better make sure that i'm not like mucking up with things like this um so uh 00:20:05.810 --> 00:20:11.419 pretty cool reason to use um uh use coverage on your test code to make sure that you don't do this 00:20:11.740 --> 00:20:19.820 Oh, yeah. The fix, by the way, of doing this is just instead of using a generator comprehension, just use a list and pass it to a desk. 00:20:19.890 --> 00:20:20.960 Square brackets, not parentheses. 00:20:21.590 --> 00:20:21.700 Yeah. 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:22.680 Problem solved. 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.580 It's subtle, though. I agree. Very subtle. 00:20:25.820 --> 00:20:30.660 Oh, yeah. That's the difference, really? Yeah. A parentheses for those brackets, and then it works. 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:32.160 Well, yeah. 00:20:32.450 --> 00:20:34.220 Okay. Anyway, thanks, Hugo. 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:35.400 Yeah. Thanks, Hugo. 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:43.900 All right, let's talk about something simpler than all that SQLite distributed async business. 00:20:44.340 --> 00:20:45.060 Here's a problem, Brian. 00:20:45.490 --> 00:20:52.780 You have a program, probably in our case, often a Python program, and you want to give it to somebody and let them run it. 00:20:52.990 --> 00:20:53.860 How do you do that? 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:58.620 Still, to this day, there's no amazing options to do that. 00:20:58.660 --> 00:21:07.860 I know we have Py2.exe and Py2.app, but those things are, while awesome, they're not consistently 00:21:08.420 --> 00:21:10.100 reliable and all sorts of things. 00:21:10.300 --> 00:21:13.180 So this is a little bit more dev-focused than that. 00:21:13.180 --> 00:21:17.020 But if you have Docker installed on the machine, right? 00:21:17.140 --> 00:21:24.300 So if Docker is like Docker Desktop or OrbStack or whatever, and I guess even in the upcoming 00:21:24.320 --> 00:21:30.040 macOS. We're supposed to have a built-in Docker equivalent built straight into macOS, 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.060 which should be interesting. Anyway, if you have any of those, there's this project called Docker 00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:39.000 to EXE. Too executable. I believe it works on all the platforms. I don't think it's just 00:21:39.460 --> 00:21:44.400 Windows EXE, even though, you know, yeah, it absolutely works on Windows, Linux, and Darwin, 00:21:44.780 --> 00:21:50.940 aka macOS. So just too executable, right? And the idea is that if you have a Docker image 00:21:51.260 --> 00:21:54.380 with an entry point or something like that that will start an app running, 00:21:55.080 --> 00:22:02.140 you can simply build that as an executable, either a.exe on Windows, a.app. 00:22:02.350 --> 00:22:04.280 You have to rename it, I think, more or less. 00:22:04.560 --> 00:22:05.940 They're just executable binaries, right? 00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:10.340 So you can take that Docker image and build it into an executable, 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:11.540 which is pretty awesome. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.720 So you could, you know, the example they give is kind of, it's a bad, 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:18.840 I'm going to call it as a full-on bad example because it says, 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.360 here is a bare Linux image. 00:22:21.860 --> 00:22:23.340 You can distribute that as a binary. 00:22:23.420 --> 00:22:24.380 It's like, okay, great. 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:26.880 That's not exactly the use case. 00:22:27.300 --> 00:22:29.120 You know, the use case is I have something 00:22:29.540 --> 00:22:31.780 I want to give to someone and run it, right? 00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:33.560 So as a Docker thing, 00:22:33.620 --> 00:22:35.180 so maybe a better example would be like, 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:36.820 here's copying over my source code, 00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:38.280 building a Docker image, 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.300 and then turning that base Docker image 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.620 into an executable that I can distribute, right? 00:22:42.860 --> 00:22:44.160 But this thing would do that. 00:22:44.300 --> 00:22:46.040 It's just the example doesn't show that. 00:22:46.340 --> 00:22:47.980 So I think that is pretty neat. 00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:57.180 And if you want yet another way to distribute a more durable tool to somebody, if they have Docker, then you're good to go. 00:22:57.540 --> 00:22:58.200 That's pretty cool. 00:22:58.580 --> 00:23:00.420 Well, do they have to have Docker? 00:23:00.840 --> 00:23:01.040 Yes. 00:23:01.360 --> 00:23:01.560 Okay. 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:11.240 Because basically somehow this thing just bundles up the Docker image and then just executes it using Docker in the same way that you would just say Docker run, etc. 00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:32.420 The other thing that's not clear to me is if there's a way to pass through mappings, for example, map port 8000 to 2722, whatever, you know what I mean? Or map this volume to this folder. Probably you can in the exit, like when you run the executable, can you pass that kind of stuff to it? 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:35.240 Also, again, the reason I don't like this example here, 00:23:35.470 --> 00:23:36.940 boy, they just like bundle up Linux. 00:23:37.500 --> 00:23:41.060 In the Docker file itself, you can say expose this port 00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:44.240 and do other type of things like that in the Docker file. 00:23:44.670 --> 00:23:46.740 So you can bake in, like if you're saying, 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.880 my thing is a little Flask app that runs using maybe SQLite for the database. 00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.540 It exposes this port so that you can then, you know, 00:23:54.580 --> 00:23:57.460 it could print out a thing like click here to like talk to the server 00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:00.360 and launches a URL, the web browser to like a local URL. 00:24:00.760 --> 00:24:04.860 So you can do that with, I'm pretty sure, with expose and other stuff in the Docker file. 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:09.740 But yeah, anyway, you want to ship a Docker image as just an executable binary? 00:24:10.030 --> 00:24:10.600 Check this thing out. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:11.140 Cool. 00:24:11.830 --> 00:24:12.080 Very neat. 00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:12.800 All right. 00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:14.760 I know that you have extras and I don't. 00:24:15.120 --> 00:24:15.300 Okay. 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.020 I've got some testing code news. 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:19.800 So testing code has sort of been on pause. 00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:20.800 When was the last time? 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:21.580 May 7th. 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:23.940 It's July now. 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:26.800 It's been on pause for a while because of life. 00:24:26.980 --> 00:24:29.060 But life has got a little bit of room in it now. 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.120 So I'm going to do a little bit of testing code. 00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:32.200 So there is a, 00:24:32.620 --> 00:24:36.800 there's three episodes in the queue and hopefully more to come. 00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:37.520 So at least, 00:24:38.120 --> 00:24:42.120 and so this week there will be an episode and I'm pretty excited because the, 00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:46.100 this week's episode is covering pytest Django with Adam Johnson. 00:24:46.280 --> 00:24:48.220 And a lot of people have asked me about pytest Django. 00:24:48.700 --> 00:24:52.000 And since I am not a Django expert, 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:52.580 I, 00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:54.100 and Adam is, 00:24:54.520 --> 00:24:56.160 Adam was willing to talk with me about it. 00:24:56.320 --> 00:24:56.960 And it's a, 00:24:57.340 --> 00:24:58.540 it's a really great discussion. 00:24:58.900 --> 00:25:00.680 So I'll be excited to get that out. 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:02.880 I'll be excited to get that out this week. 00:25:03.130 --> 00:25:05.260 And then also I went ahead. 00:25:05.550 --> 00:25:11.240 So I'm using a hosting provider I'm using for this is Transistor FM. 00:25:11.490 --> 00:25:16.420 And Transistor has the ability to push things to YouTube, but it's a little bit wacky. 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:18.760 So I have went ahead and turned that on. 00:25:19.260 --> 00:25:22.480 And so everything now is for testing code. 00:25:22.590 --> 00:25:23.580 Well, not everything yet. 00:25:24.340 --> 00:25:27.140 207 episodes are now up on YouTube. 00:25:27.840 --> 00:25:31.660 The catch is they sort of show up in random order. 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:37.300 They push, I think, 80 episodes a day or something like that. 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:38.840 They do a lot. 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:42.820 So by the time you probably hear this, 00:25:42.900 --> 00:25:44.540 if you don't hear it on the first day, 00:25:45.360 --> 00:25:46.660 they'll probably be all up. 00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:49.780 But anyway, they're there, but they're just in weird order. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.140 That's a lot of content to be pushing up there. 00:25:52.300 --> 00:25:55.200 I suspect, though, after it sort of bulk uploads, 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.500 Once it does, as you start publishing, it'll go in the right order. 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.240 Yeah, well, it's because YouTube orders, 00:26:01.580 --> 00:26:06.340 I'm pretty sure YouTube orders in the upload order of when you uploaded it. 00:26:06.560 --> 00:26:08.560 And there's no way to backdate it to say, 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:10.980 this was actually two years ago or something. 00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:14.400 Yeah, and probably Transistor just batch processes them. 00:26:14.500 --> 00:26:16.780 And the order in which they complete is the order in which they upload. 00:26:17.320 --> 00:26:23.220 Luckily, when I transitioned to Transistor, though, 00:26:23.560 --> 00:26:26.760 They do have a, it just uses your old post dates. 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.080 So even though I transitioned like, I don't know, 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.740 a couple of years ago or something like that, 00:26:32.620 --> 00:26:34.540 I still was able to, you know, 00:26:34.830 --> 00:26:37.700 like some of the early episodes still show up 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.080 as like being happening in 2016, 00:26:40.670 --> 00:26:42.200 even though they got transferred later. 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:44.080 But anyway, a lot of content. 00:26:44.390 --> 00:26:44.760 Good deal. 00:26:45.100 --> 00:26:46.180 So no extras for you? 00:26:46.580 --> 00:26:48.180 No, I'm not very extra. 00:26:48.590 --> 00:26:49.740 Just been working hard and stuff. 00:26:49.800 --> 00:26:51.020 I'll share, I'll have things to share eventually, 00:26:51.280 --> 00:26:52.640 but right now, no extras. 00:26:53.080 --> 00:26:54.620 I do have a joke I've brought for us. 00:26:54.620 --> 00:26:55.080 What do you think? 00:26:55.460 --> 00:26:55.920 Oh, yeah. 00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:56.440 Let's do a joke. 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:56.860 Are you here for it? 00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:57.260 Yeah. 00:26:57.340 --> 00:26:57.540 Okay. 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.840 So, Brian, what if programmers were doctors? 00:27:02.360 --> 00:27:03.140 You know, the old joke. 00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:05.180 Hey, doctor, my leg hurts. 00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:06.180 Well, stop. 00:27:07.520 --> 00:27:09.500 My leg hurts when I lift it like this. 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:11.060 Well, stop lifting it like that, right? 00:27:11.300 --> 00:27:11.440 Yeah. 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.420 There's a fun variation on that joke for programmers, 00:27:16.060 --> 00:27:19.400 and it's basically the doctor equivalent of it works on my machine. 00:27:20.080 --> 00:27:22.420 It says, doctor, my leg hurts. 00:27:22.700 --> 00:27:23.180 That's weird. 00:27:23.270 --> 00:27:24.880 I also have a leg and it doesn't hurt. 00:27:24.950 --> 00:27:26.200 The issue must be on your side. 00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:31.620 Yeah, that's definitely true. 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:32.240 Yeah. 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:34.900 I like it. 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:36.080 That's dumb, but funny. 00:27:36.300 --> 00:27:36.700 I know. 00:27:36.860 --> 00:27:37.800 It's short and sweet. 00:27:39.140 --> 00:27:39.600 I like it. 00:27:39.800 --> 00:27:39.960 Cool. 00:27:40.360 --> 00:27:41.780 Well, thanks for the joke, Michael. 00:27:42.010 --> 00:27:44.440 And thanks, as always, for this wonderful episode. 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:45.540 You bet. 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:46.740 Bye, Brian. 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:47.260 Bye, everyone. 00:27:47.300 --> 00:27:47.400 Bye.