WEBVTT 00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:05.100 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.720 --> 00:00:12.580 This is episode 442, recorded July 28, 2025. I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:13.740 And I'm Brian Okken. 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:19.140 You can connect with us and the show over on Mastodon or on Bluesky. 00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:26.360 You can find the links at the top of the show notes to all the different accounts for me, Brian, and the show on those various places. 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:36.600 If you want to be part of the live show, as I know some of you I can see now are, then join us usually Monday, 10 a.m. Pacific time on YouTube, pythonbytes.fm/live. 00:00:37.080 --> 00:00:37.520 That'll take you there. 00:00:37.980 --> 00:00:42.640 And if there's a live episode going there and even like point out, hey, we're live right now and here's how you find us. 00:00:42.940 --> 00:00:45.080 So we appreciate all the live interactions. 00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:47.120 It makes the show better, we think. 00:00:47.760 --> 00:00:54.300 And yeah, so support all of our work, Brian, through his three courses. 00:00:54.340 --> 00:00:55.920 You got three courses right now? 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:56.340 Yeah. 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:57.740 pythontest.com? 00:00:58.540 --> 00:01:00.160 Yeah, three or four, something like that. 00:01:00.620 --> 00:01:00.780 Beautiful. 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.580 And obviously the course is over at Talk Python, got a bunch of them. 00:01:05.160 --> 00:01:08.140 And I have more to say about that later, actually. 00:01:08.300 --> 00:01:10.180 So some very cool things coming there. 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:11.260 What's our first item? 00:01:11.580 --> 00:01:16.480 Well, I was going to talk about, which button do we push? 00:01:16.700 --> 00:01:17.020 That one? 00:01:17.440 --> 00:01:17.560 Okay. 00:01:17.880 --> 00:01:20.240 I wanted to talk about open source security. 00:01:20.460 --> 00:01:23.240 Actually, security with respect to open source projects. 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:26.780 And this is something that Seth Larson likes to talk about. 00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:29.380 He's the security dude at, isn't he? 00:01:30.020 --> 00:01:31.240 Does some security for. 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:34.180 Yeah, this is official title is security dude at the PSF. 00:01:35.060 --> 00:01:35.580 Security dude. 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.980 So he's got an article, open source security work isn't special, 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:44.700 but it kind of is, but it's kind of not. 00:01:44.940 --> 00:01:48.540 So the discussion is around how we, 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:52.120 one of the amazing things about open source work is you can, 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:57.300 you can have contributors from around around different places you can have community can 00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:03.620 people helping with the community building people helping with development docs tests uh funding 00:02:04.050 --> 00:02:12.120 all sorts of stuff people can help out uh security is one of those things and um but um but one of the 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:17.260 the one of the topics really is that seth brought up is that people kind of think of security as 00:02:17.260 --> 00:02:22.660 different because it's so important. It's, it's, you don't, you want, you don't like if somebody 00:02:22.720 --> 00:02:26.480 just randomly came in and like implemented a cool feature, you can look at the code and go, 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:30.980 oh yeah, and that's kind of neat. Maybe we'll take it. Maybe we won't. But if somebody wants 00:02:30.980 --> 00:02:37.640 to modify the security settings or do something around security with your project, either of the 00:02:37.840 --> 00:02:43.579 project, the code project code itself, or just the community around the project and maybe the website 00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:50.740 or something. That would be a little scarier, but maybe it shouldn't be. One of the things he 00:02:50.920 --> 00:02:55.520 brought up, which is really important, is we kind of want the core maintainers to be like the people 00:02:55.660 --> 00:03:01.740 that only can muck with the security stuff, but they might not have the skills necessary. So 00:03:01.820 --> 00:03:07.460 maintainers, especially for smaller projects, are almost always experts in the domain of the project, 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:12.959 but not necessarily security experts. And that's definitely the case for me. I could see myself 00:03:12.980 --> 00:03:19.660 working on like the test code or some other like, you know, application, but I'm not going to be the 00:03:19.940 --> 00:03:24.340 security expert. So I would love to have somebody help out, but there's issues around that, right? 00:03:25.640 --> 00:03:31.720 So the article goes into discussing things like trust and different things. One of the benefits, 00:03:31.890 --> 00:03:36.840 like let's say we had security specialists that work on lots of different open source projects. 00:03:37.220 --> 00:03:46.780 They could, because they are understanding multiple projects, they can see how other projects are triaging vulnerabilities and learn from different projects. 00:03:47.020 --> 00:03:50.360 So we kind of want to spread that knowledge around between projects. 00:03:50.750 --> 00:03:53.720 And having security experts bounce around would be good. 00:03:53.860 --> 00:03:59.500 Just like we might have people that are good at pytest jump around and help out with the test code on different projects. 00:03:59.550 --> 00:04:00.760 We could have security experts. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:02.120 But how do we trust them? 00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:04.580 And he does talk about trust. 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:09.140 And one of the great things about how to trust people is to meet them, like actually go to 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:14.220 go to project, go to like conferences and stuff and meet people in person. 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:16.680 And I think that's important. 00:04:16.940 --> 00:04:22.780 But I would say like for a project of mine, I would if somebody said they wanted to help 00:04:22.820 --> 00:04:28.140 out with the with the security aspect of it, I would if they had a portfolio, like, you 00:04:28.140 --> 00:04:32.940 know, if they're already a contributor to like Flask, I'd be like, oh, yeah, they do 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:33.900 security for Flask. 00:04:34.060 --> 00:04:35.280 They totally can work on this. 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.600 So building, and I think that's kind of where Seth is going, 00:04:39.740 --> 00:04:43.320 is to try to build up a community of trusted security people 00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:45.500 within the Python open source community. 00:04:45.780 --> 00:04:46.900 And I think that'd be really cool. 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:48.220 So cool article. 00:04:48.640 --> 00:04:49.960 Yeah, it's a neat idea. 00:04:50.020 --> 00:04:51.500 Like, why should it be special, right? 00:04:51.780 --> 00:04:55.260 You don't restrict the looping aspects of your project to like, 00:04:55.460 --> 00:04:56.600 these are the loop specialists. 00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:03.279 Yeah, well, he did talk about like the scary bit of like that XZ thing 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:08.620 or whatever, where somebody kind of pushes into a project to help with something else. 00:05:08.820 --> 00:05:14.660 And then they maybe are one of the fears is also is if a security person changes something, 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:20.200 I don't know if it's bad or good. Right. Because I'm not the security expert. So, 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:27.100 yeah, dealing with that. But Seth is like saying that that's not as big of a problem as 00:05:27.280 --> 00:05:32.980 as we might think. And and part of the, you know, trusted people around it would help. 00:05:33.380 --> 00:05:50.660 Yeah, I would say diverging slightly from Seth's article, it might be worth just asking your favorite code AI agent like, hey, don't make any changes, but please do a security review of my code and explain the issues and see if it finds anything. 00:05:50.820 --> 00:05:56.400 Or if somebody makes a change, you could say, hey, AI, what is the security impact of this change? 00:05:57.420 --> 00:06:05.080 It's, you know, it's not necessarily 100% perfect, but it's sort of like double input accounting sort of thing, right? 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:06.580 Yeah, but right. 00:06:06.890 --> 00:06:07.660 Yeah, that'd be cool. 00:06:08.520 --> 00:06:16.420 Also things like, for instance, if you've already hooked up Bandit to a project to do a Bandit testing for security, 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:19.220 like adding that to another product. 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:21.120 If you see another project that you work with, 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:22.500 it doesn't make sense. 00:06:23.500 --> 00:06:24.100 One of the, 00:06:24.820 --> 00:06:26.980 the one of the advice, Brian, I don't know. 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:29.560 If someone or something is named Bandit, 00:06:29.580 --> 00:06:31.220 do you really want to put them in charge of security? 00:06:31.940 --> 00:06:33.780 That sounds a little sus, honestly. 00:06:34.180 --> 00:06:35.820 No, Bandit's a cool tool. Sorry. 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:41.620 The other topic that he brought up that I appreciated was, 00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:47.180 we do talk about companies utilizing open source projects a lot. 00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:49.660 So this is where it really makes sense. 00:06:49.710 --> 00:06:52.200 A company is probably going to have some security experts, right? 00:06:52.400 --> 00:06:53.500 A larger company. 00:06:54.020 --> 00:06:55.540 Those people could look at the dependencies 00:06:56.100 --> 00:06:57.660 and contribute to those projects 00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:00.440 that don't live up to their security standards. 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:04.820 Go ahead and contribute to help make them better. 00:07:05.460 --> 00:07:06.160 Yeah, that's a good point. 00:07:06.350 --> 00:07:08.340 Instead of saying this thing's not secure enough for us, 00:07:08.580 --> 00:07:10.700 and we'll do a few PRs, and then it will be. 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:11.780 Yeah, exactly. 00:07:12.660 --> 00:07:12.940 Exactly. 00:07:13.470 --> 00:07:16.800 You know what probably is up to most people's standards is uv. 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:17.480 Yes. 00:07:17.980 --> 00:07:19.460 Yeah, so uv is killing it. 00:07:19.580 --> 00:07:22.980 And a major release has been released of uv. 00:07:23.320 --> 00:07:24.940 And so I want to give a shout out to that. 00:07:25.340 --> 00:07:29.280 However, between the time I noticed that, there have been three more releases. 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:36.200 So there's actually 0.8.3 and.2 and.1 and so on. 00:07:36.880 --> 00:07:38.240 There's a smaller change for those. 00:07:38.280 --> 00:07:43.020 But one that's notable is you can now get Python 3.14, which I know you're going to give a little shout out to. 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:49.200 The release candidate, you can get that through uv, Python, or just V and V and say that, right? 00:07:49.580 --> 00:07:55.520 But the real notable one here is the big changes from 0.8.0. 00:07:55.940 --> 00:08:02.160 So they say, hey, since 7, v7 back in April, I'm just going to like stomp on the 0 version. 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:03.940 What's this version 7? No, just kidding. 00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:10.460 0.7 back in April, they've got a bunch of changes and improvements, but they could break some workflows. 00:08:10.780 --> 00:08:16.860 they've been kind of holding those all back and they're letting them loose in 0.8. So for example, 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:22.620 some, this is the one I'm most excited about the stabilization of a couple of uv Python install 00:08:23.260 --> 00:08:28.840 features, which is also uv venv if you don't have that version of Python installed, right? Like 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:36.079 that's sort of implicitly happens. So one that I was asking for, and the soon as I saw that uv would 00:08:36.099 --> 00:08:41.320 install and manage Python. I'm like, is there a way that one of these could somehow become 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:47.120 the Python instead of being stashed in some crazy path, right? Like, could it be in 00:08:47.640 --> 00:08:54.740 tilde dot local slash bin, for example, right? Well, yes, now. So the new change is it will 00:08:55.020 --> 00:09:00.680 install Python executables into a directory on the path. So you can basically manage your system Python 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.360 sort of via uv Python install. I think that's pretty cool. 00:09:04.520 --> 00:09:07.020 Okay. Is that what that default flag does? 00:09:07.680 --> 00:09:08.080 Yes. 00:09:08.520 --> 00:09:14.880 Yeah. If you put, well, it used to have, so it says if you uv Python install, 00:09:15.160 --> 00:09:19.220 now it's installs a version of Python into a directory on the path by default. 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:21.060 Oh, okay. 00:09:21.460 --> 00:09:21.580 Yeah. 00:09:22.060 --> 00:09:23.100 It does it. 00:09:23.340 --> 00:09:23.480 Yeah. 00:09:23.880 --> 00:09:24.020 All right. 00:09:24.020 --> 00:09:26.120 I think it just does it, which is pretty interesting. 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:27.200 I'm pretty psyched about it. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:29.940 It registers Python versions with the Windows registry. 00:09:30.140 --> 00:09:32.440 I imagine that means like, you know, Python's, I'm sorry, 00:09:32.580 --> 00:09:33.680 Windows is all about the registry. 00:09:33.940 --> 00:09:37.480 So it probably means like other tools can discover that Python is installed and so on. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:41.620 It has a little bit of safety about removing virtual environments 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:43.820 if you're going to recreate them and things like that. 00:09:44.160 --> 00:09:45.300 There's a bunch of other changes here. 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.960 So this is like pretty serious release. 00:09:48.460 --> 00:09:51.760 I guess the last one that's pretty interesting here, maybe two even. 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.040 One is that uv build is now the default backend of uv init, 00:09:58.220 --> 00:10:01.280 which creates a project in a pyproject.toml and those kinds of things, right? 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.320 Remember it was hatchling and then we were like, 00:10:03.460 --> 00:10:04.240 well, is it hatchling? 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.740 Like how is the build back in specified and so on? 00:10:07.020 --> 00:10:08.420 Well, now it's uv build. 00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:09.140 That's cool. 00:10:09.460 --> 00:10:09.900 Yeah, it's very cool. 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:11.620 I've been using uv build for a long time, 00:10:11.670 --> 00:10:14.300 but just typing uv space build instead of, you know, 00:10:15.290 --> 00:10:15.840 run that or whatever. 00:10:16.070 --> 00:10:16.180 Okay. 00:10:16.510 --> 00:10:20.500 And then it also sets the uv tool bin directory on Docker images. 00:10:21.040 --> 00:10:23.800 This is kind of a pain because if you install stuff, 00:10:23.950 --> 00:10:26.140 a lot of times the Docker images don't have access. 00:10:26.420 --> 00:10:27.280 So if you're not paying attention, 00:10:27.880 --> 00:10:29.140 you'll like try to build a Docker image. 00:10:29.170 --> 00:10:31.560 And then the next step in the build is run, 00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:35.880 run one of the tools you've installed to make something happen. 00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:37.280 And it'll say, can't find this tool. 00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:38.220 You're like, where is it? 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:38.640 You know what I mean? 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:40.940 So you got to set the path and so on. 00:10:41.160 --> 00:10:42.680 So now you can, that's a little easier. 00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:43.700 And so on and so on. 00:10:43.740 --> 00:10:47.060 Like, look at all these changes for just 0.7 to 0.8. 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:51.840 It's the second digit may as well be the major digit. 00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:54.360 Yeah, that's why I was calling it version 7 and version 8. 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:55.620 I'm like, these are just major versions. 00:10:55.780 --> 00:10:58.720 They're just not committed to majorness. 00:10:59.800 --> 00:11:01.020 Anyway, fun stuff. 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:01.420 All right. 00:11:01.820 --> 00:11:02.160 Back to you. 00:11:02.580 --> 00:11:02.940 Okay. 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:04.080 I've got a bunch. 00:11:04.940 --> 00:11:05.740 I couldn't decide. 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:07.580 So I'm going to do a bunch of extras. 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:12.440 So first up, Python 3.14, release candidate. 00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:13.600 One is a go. 00:11:13.910 --> 00:11:15.180 This is from Hugo. 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.820 So, yeah, I guess that's it. 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:19.120 I guess this was six days ago. 00:11:19.290 --> 00:11:22.380 So we may have already covered it last year or last week. 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:23.020 I don't remember. 00:11:23.780 --> 00:11:24.340 So 3.14. 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:25.120 I don't think we covered it. 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:26.680 I think this is new news. 00:11:27.070 --> 00:11:27.840 And this is a big deal. 00:11:27.930 --> 00:11:31.660 The release candidate means, I mean, beta is supposed to mean that it's, 00:11:31.900 --> 00:11:32.020 Yeah. 00:11:32.500 --> 00:11:33.700 No features, no changes. 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:38.140 But now it's very, very close to what we're going to see in October 00:11:38.360 --> 00:11:39.140 or whenever it comes out. 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:41.580 So people could maybe start testing with it. 00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:44.660 Yeah, so that's where the call to action comes, 00:11:45.040 --> 00:11:49.800 is we strongly encourage maintainers of third-party Python projects 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.320 to prepare their projects for 3.14. 00:11:54.220 --> 00:11:58.160 And so if you've got CI pipelines for testing, 00:11:58.700 --> 00:11:59.760 now's the time to turn it on. 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:02.540 if your project doesn't work with 3.14, 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.700 this is now that, I mean, 00:12:04.950 --> 00:12:06.480 actually you should have brought it up sooner, 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.320 but you can bring it up now to say, 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:09.840 hey, there's an issue. 00:12:10.170 --> 00:12:12.060 And so there's a link to the Python bug tracker 00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:16.120 and then a list of all the different features 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:19.420 and whatnot, build changes, incompatibilities on here. 00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:20.820 So that's first. 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:22.720 So yeah, please test everything. 00:12:24.380 --> 00:12:26.720 And okay, so that's my first item. 00:12:26.860 --> 00:12:29.240 Second item is f-strings, WTF. 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:33.680 So this is brought to us by Armin Ronecker, 00:12:34.380 --> 00:12:37.140 encouraged by Lucas Lange and Yuri. 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:42.300 So this is, I took this, have you taken this yet, Michael? 00:12:42.640 --> 00:12:43.460 No, I haven't. 00:12:43.460 --> 00:12:46.100 And by the way, fstrings.wtf is the domain name. 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:46.740 Yes. 00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:48.380 Yeah. 00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:53.580 So this must, the top level domain of WTF, gotta love it. 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:56.200 So it's just a little quiz thing. 00:12:56.560 --> 00:12:57.900 The first question is awesome. 00:12:58.800 --> 00:13:02.200 So if you print F hello world, what do you get? 00:13:02.470 --> 00:13:03.580 It really doesn't matter what you answer. 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:05.840 No, what you get is a linting error. 00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:10.900 So it's, you know, correct. 00:13:11.130 --> 00:13:13.500 f-strings are working exactly as you'd expect anything. 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.180 But you got to go through, there's 26 questions. 00:13:17.590 --> 00:13:21.460 And it's a little, it's tricky right off the bat. 00:13:21.780 --> 00:13:25.760 Like I know that the ellipses object is a thing. 00:13:26.150 --> 00:13:27.340 So what happens if I do that? 00:13:27.420 --> 00:13:32.500 well there's no there's no curly braces so of course it's just anyway um it's a fun thing i 00:13:32.590 --> 00:13:37.400 thought i was going to do great since i do f strings all the time and i got like half of them 00:13:37.540 --> 00:13:42.700 right so i learned a lot in uh going through this so i highly recommend well you're going to make me 00:13:42.800 --> 00:13:49.380 have to do it now as well yeah um so this is uh this is good plus some of the um some of the 00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:55.319 descriptions and uh and you know no phone funny business here we just a literal string with three 00:13:55.360 --> 00:14:01.120 dots there's there's some good commentary within the within the quiz also so i highly recommend 00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:07.940 django turns 20 uh happy birthday django um so we're going to link to birthday 20 django project 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:14.460 dot com uh this there's a whole bunch of celebrations planned uh and it's uh so this 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:19.740 is kind of fun there's a there's a map event of like if there's a party near you kind of fun to 00:14:19.880 --> 00:14:20.980 go for a Django person. 00:14:21.640 --> 00:14:23.340 Where's the closest one to me? 00:14:23.980 --> 00:14:26.960 Looks like in October 17th, 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:29.600 I could go down to San Francisco if I wanted to. 00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:30.700 So at PyBay. 00:14:31.060 --> 00:14:31.200 Nice. 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:32.980 So anyway, there's that. 00:14:34.300 --> 00:14:35.100 MakeDocs redirect. 00:14:35.400 --> 00:14:37.660 I've been using MakeDocs lately a lot 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.000 for documenting a bunch of stuff. 00:14:40.380 --> 00:14:41.220 I like MakeDocs. 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:43.200 But sometimes, and I'm actually doing 00:14:43.540 --> 00:14:44.820 some fairly big websites, 00:14:46.260 --> 00:14:47.780 documentation websites with MakeDocs. 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:49.440 It works pretty good. 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:55.880 but sometimes I put things in the wrong place right um you and with Hugo I've been used to um 00:14:56.340 --> 00:15:00.920 used to being able to to like move things around and have both links work like if you move it 00:15:01.020 --> 00:15:05.620 somewhere else but have the old link still work that doesn't work right off out of the box 00:15:05.860 --> 00:15:11.460 with make docs there's not a thing so there's a make docs redirects plug-in that allows you to 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:16.459 have the old name and the new name so I haven't actually tried this yet but I need it so I'm 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.200 going to try it today yeah and my my last extra that i wanted to bring up is just an article that 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:30.000 i enjoyed um called uh by patty carver saying i'm tired of talking about ai and um and actually 00:15:30.450 --> 00:15:35.500 even if you're not tired of tech talking about ai i think this is a good thing to like read through 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:40.400 because there's some things that i think that a lot of people are feeling like should i 00:15:40.630 --> 00:15:45.279 because i've heard a lot of there's a lot of comments in here and reactions to comments like 00:15:45.920 --> 00:15:51.600 if you don't start now, you won't be able to find work soon. That's scary, especially if I don't 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:56.700 have time to work on this right now. And I know that the commentary often is, well, you don't have 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:06.160 time because you're not using AI to free up your time. That's a tedious discussion. But there's a, 00:16:06.460 --> 00:16:11.600 I think there's a, there's a, some of the cool reaction here is this just doesn't make sense. 00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:15.480 We're telling people that AI is going to help them. 00:16:16.260 --> 00:16:19.320 Pretty soon, anybody off the street can be a coder with AI. 00:16:19.780 --> 00:16:22.960 Well, if that's true, then why is it so important for me to learn it today? 00:16:23.280 --> 00:16:26.080 Can't I learn it next week when I really need it? 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:31.720 I don't agree with everything in this article, but there's some great logic in here. 00:16:31.920 --> 00:16:32.360 I like it. 00:16:32.900 --> 00:16:33.700 Plus, great writing. 00:16:34.580 --> 00:16:35.720 That's all of my extras. 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:36.420 Awesome. 00:16:36.920 --> 00:16:37.020 Awesome. 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:38.420 All right. 00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:39.600 What have I got? 00:16:39.920 --> 00:16:42.680 So I want to talk about Toad the Wet Sprocket. 00:16:45.260 --> 00:16:46.340 Yeah, Toad the Wet Sprocket. 00:16:46.460 --> 00:16:48.820 By the way, one of the best bands from the 90s. 00:16:48.920 --> 00:16:49.880 Come on, Toad the Wet Sprocket. 00:16:50.050 --> 00:16:51.120 It was amazing. 00:16:51.780 --> 00:16:54.660 So this one comes to us from Will McGuggan. 00:16:54.770 --> 00:17:00.480 I see out in the audience, Will is providing the perfect transition here for us. 00:17:00.780 --> 00:17:01.980 AI fatigue is very real. 00:17:02.180 --> 00:17:02.780 Yes, I agree. 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:04.140 I agree, Will. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.260 But he is also helping, contributing both to this. 00:17:08.980 --> 00:17:09.520 Thank you, Will. 00:17:09.540 --> 00:17:10.220 Yeah, thanks a lot, Will. 00:17:10.850 --> 00:17:12.459 Yeah, this project's called Toad, 00:17:12.890 --> 00:17:18.520 which originally was going to be called Textual Code, 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:20.020 but became Toad, 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:26.000 is an improvement on the terminal-based agentic AI 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:27.900 sort of programming story. 00:17:28.100 --> 00:17:31.080 So Claude Code and Gemini and all those types of things, 00:17:31.330 --> 00:17:34.120 they've got really pretty poor terminal experiences, 00:17:34.580 --> 00:17:36.500 even though that's their only user interface, 00:17:36.790 --> 00:17:37.640 which is interesting. 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:41.460 Like, for example, if you resize the terminal after you get an output, 00:17:41.540 --> 00:17:44.500 it can, like, screw up the formatting and stuff, which is weird. 00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:45.680 All sorts of things. 00:17:45.860 --> 00:17:51.020 So he came up with this cool project that has basically taken advantage of Textual 00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:53.680 to create a really nice terminal experience. 00:17:54.080 --> 00:17:59.960 And so, yeah, the idea is that it's supposed to be a universal front end for AI in the terminal. 00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:04.100 And you can even go and watch, like, a little demo that he's put together, 00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:06.800 UV Run Toad, which is pretty fun. 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:09.500 And, you know, I think this is an agentic example. 00:18:09.540 --> 00:18:12.240 He says, write a Python code to display the Mandelbrot set. 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:14.060 And then, boom, just off it goes. 00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:20.520 Write it in the terminal with code formatted nicely and syntax highlighting and all that. 00:18:20.840 --> 00:18:21.760 Then you can say, run it. 00:18:21.820 --> 00:18:22.940 You can say, explain it. 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:23.780 You get the modal dialogues. 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:26.180 All the things you would get from Textual, right? 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:30.260 So Will says this is not yet a thing you can just go grab. 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:34.880 But down at the bottom, you can say, code isn't quite ready for public release. 00:18:35.180 --> 00:18:36.500 It remains a tadpole for now, 00:18:36.800 --> 00:18:39.820 incubating in a private little pond of a repository. 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.320 But you know, he's all about Voss. 00:18:42.350 --> 00:18:43.780 So it will be out soon enough. 00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:45.100 In the meantime, you can, 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:47.220 there's ways to get early access to it. 00:18:47.300 --> 00:18:48.300 For example, sponsor him. 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:49.700 So cool project, Will. 00:18:49.940 --> 00:18:50.920 I want to just give that a shout out. 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:51.680 Yeah, definitely. 00:18:52.620 --> 00:18:54.140 I always pay attention if Will's doing something. 00:18:54.840 --> 00:18:55.160 Exactly. 00:18:55.800 --> 00:18:57.460 So I guess you probably don't have any extras 00:18:57.820 --> 00:18:59.300 since you just talked about your extras, right? 00:18:59.560 --> 00:19:00.060 I do. 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:01.320 Yeah, I don't have any extras. 00:19:01.650 --> 00:19:02.840 You don't have an extra extras. 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:03.580 Let's say that. 00:19:03.990 --> 00:19:04.780 No more extra extras. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.540 So I'm going to be releasing a new course really soon. 00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:09.780 So make sure you are a friend of the show. 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:15.620 That could be Python Bytes or Talk Python gets a little bit, 00:19:15.860 --> 00:19:18.320 send a few more emails over there that might be talking about it. 00:19:18.320 --> 00:19:21.820 So if you go to talkpython.fm, click on newsletter, 00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:24.540 share your name and email, and I'll let you know. 00:19:24.760 --> 00:19:26.900 But very soon, I have an excellent course coming out 00:19:26.900 --> 00:19:28.440 that I think people are really going to enjoy. 00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:30.840 All right, with that, shall we joke, make a joke? 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:31.380 Yes. 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.740 If one joke were good, wouldn't two be better? 00:19:34.820 --> 00:19:42.040 sure you'd think yeah you would think that's true for for a while until at some point like okay 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.540 either i'm tired of jokes or my my cheeks are whatever stop all right so here's the first one 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:52.840 what are the heaviest objects in the universe and it's got this um like uh eisen um like general 00:19:53.060 --> 00:19:59.500 relativity sort of space-time curve continuum thing so we've got the sun and it it bends space-time a 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:05.540 little the neutron star obviously super big much deeper than the sun the black hole is almost a 00:20:05.660 --> 00:20:12.860 singularity but what is more singularity than black holes node modules the node underscore modules 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:18.380 folder from when you create a new project it's just like I tried to use two libraries in npm 00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:25.400 install them or yarn install them and why are there 250 things in node modules pretty fun this 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:26.520 This is good, this is a short little one. 00:20:27.700 --> 00:20:30.600 But even better, we have Azure's Cloud Appy. 00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:35.700 Cloud Architect, senior platform engineer. 00:20:37.080 --> 00:20:39.480 This is a very fun video. 00:20:40.100 --> 00:20:41.700 And I'm not sure if I got the right link, 00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:42.960 I have to update that potentially. 00:20:43.260 --> 00:20:44.160 Anyway, this comes from us, 00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:47.460 I believe this is from Programmers Are Also Human. 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.500 And it is a six minute video that is just hilarious. 00:20:52.020 --> 00:20:54.260 - This dude is on fire, I love all those videos. 00:20:54.820 --> 00:20:57.880 Yeah, he's the same guy that did the vibe coding YouTube jokes. 00:20:58.020 --> 00:20:59.300 And so this is a YouTube video, obviously. 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:00.680 We're not going to go through it. 00:21:00.780 --> 00:21:03.320 But if you need to laugh, watch it. 00:21:04.060 --> 00:21:07.840 Let's read the titles of the books on this desk, though. 00:21:08.060 --> 00:21:08.820 Go for it. 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:13.300 So we've got how to do cloud and what? 00:21:13.580 --> 00:21:15.340 How to move back on-prem. 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:17.160 Right next to each other. 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:17.680 Right next to each other. 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:18.140 Yeah, exactly. 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:18.920 Right next to each other. 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.220 We also have introduction to guesstimates. 00:21:22.940 --> 00:21:24.220 Introduction to guesstimates. 00:21:24.520 --> 00:21:26.540 And then he has a coffee cup that says, 00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:28.880 DevOps agile with root access. 00:21:30.040 --> 00:21:30.280 Yeah. 00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:31.640 But yeah, it's really good. 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:36.180 He's like, and it's in this Einstein type of character 00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:38.560 that also has a bit of a Greek accent, I believe. 00:21:39.020 --> 00:21:39.640 It's really good. 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.260 It says, they send us our cloud bills 00:21:42.340 --> 00:21:45.080 in scientific notation because they're so big. 00:21:45.300 --> 00:21:45.840 It's really good. 00:21:46.820 --> 00:21:48.540 He also gets a phone call during the interview 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:50.040 and he answers it and he goes, what? 00:21:50.500 --> 00:21:51.860 No, no, it's probably DNS. 00:21:52.260 --> 00:21:53.220 Man, it's always DNS. 00:21:53.580 --> 00:21:54.620 He goes, yeah, this guy just called. 00:21:55.060 --> 00:21:57.380 Somehow he has root access, but I don't know who that was. 00:21:58.540 --> 00:21:58.920 Just kidding. 00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.960 Nice. 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:01.120 It's really good. 00:22:01.620 --> 00:22:03.700 If you like one-liners, it's just like a stirring of them. 00:22:03.800 --> 00:22:04.020 It's great. 00:22:04.460 --> 00:22:05.200 Yeah, very good. 00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:07.600 Might be not safe for work. 00:22:07.740 --> 00:22:09.540 Not because there's anything explicit in there, 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.620 but you're not going to be able to watch it and not laugh out loud. 00:22:15.500 --> 00:22:15.820 Exactly. 00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:16.900 Yeah. 00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:20.780 If you're in a serious environment, you might need to wait till lunch. 00:22:21.560 --> 00:22:21.640 Yeah. 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:22.720 All right. 00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:24.880 They don't need to wait till lunch to listen to our show. 00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:26.600 No, we're not that funny. 00:22:29.120 --> 00:22:29.380 Fair enough. 00:22:29.620 --> 00:22:29.800 All right. 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:31.740 Thank you everyone for watching, for being here. 00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:32.500 Talk to y'all later. 00:22:32.840 --> 00:22:33.100 Bye, Ryan.