WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.100 Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly 00:00:04.100 --> 00:00:13.760 to your earbuds. This is episode 472, recorded March 9th, 2026. Incredible. My name is Michael 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:18.940 Kennedy. And I'm Brian Okken. And this episode is brought to you by us. We have a bunch of 00:00:18.940 --> 00:00:23.740 different courses, books, links are at the top of the show. I actually have some other things that 00:00:23.740 --> 00:00:27.860 I'm going to talk about at the end of this show, Brian. Yet another thing. I have two new things, 00:00:27.860 --> 00:00:32.380 but I only want to talk about one thing at a time. So this week gets, well, the one that I 00:00:32.380 --> 00:00:37.720 picked for this week. Yeah. Follow us on socials, Brian, me and the show. We all have different 00:00:37.720 --> 00:00:41.760 social media accounts you can follow and keep up with all the things that we're talking about, 00:00:41.820 --> 00:00:46.200 or, you know, send us recommendations. We appreciate that. We always enjoy getting cool 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:50.100 ideas from other people. Helps a lot, right? We say, I didn't know. I don't think one of these 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:53.140 exists and someone will send us a message. Yes, they exist. And here are four of them. Like, 00:00:53.180 --> 00:00:57.080 oh, thanks. We'll talk about those later. Sign up to the newsletter, get notified about 00:00:57.080 --> 00:01:03.560 all the stuff that we're up to, but mostly we're sending out detailed, extra enriched 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:08.180 information about what we talked about in the show, not just show notes over email. So people 00:01:08.180 --> 00:01:12.860 are finding that really valuable and Brian's sending those out. So that's great. And with that, 00:01:12.940 --> 00:01:18.900 I guess, what's our first item, Brian? Oh yeah. So let's, actually, I've got a thing that I'm working 00:01:18.900 --> 00:01:26.760 on at work that involves a project that really should be set up as a monorepo. 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:32.460 So, I mean, it's not, we're really, we don't really do monorepo things, but I guess it's a 00:01:32.460 --> 00:01:38.760 project that, that has one repository and a bunch of different, like Python projects inside of it. 00:01:38.860 --> 00:01:44.780 So I was looking for, for help with that. And I ran across this article called, 00:01:44.780 --> 00:01:52.160 three things I wish I knew before setting up a uv workspace. And it is really about setting up a 00:01:52.160 --> 00:01:59.420 UV workspace to deal with monorepos. And I actually don't really know. Anyway, so workspaces are a 00:01:59.420 --> 00:02:05.040 thing that, that uv can deal with. And, but there's some, some tricks that I guess weren't obvious. 00:02:05.140 --> 00:02:10.280 There weren't obvious to me. So there's just a few that I want to cover. One is to give the 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:16.420 root a distinct name. So you've got a top level PI, you've got an application, you've got, 00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:22.060 or your repo, there's going to be a top level PI project.toml to handle all of the, to cover 00:02:22.060 --> 00:02:30.140 everything. And then each of your sub packages will have its own PI project.toml. And the trick is 00:02:30.140 --> 00:02:38.460 they've got to have the workspace names have to be different to make this all work. And so it might be 00:02:38.460 --> 00:02:43.900 obvious. It might like in the example, they've got my app as the core project, but then the workspace 00:02:43.900 --> 00:02:52.560 is my app also. It can't be that you run into a, a name conflict. So, and that's in the names show up 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:59.060 in a thing you've got member. There's an example of what the workspace looks like and that you have to 00:02:59.060 --> 00:03:06.820 set up a different top level name. So project name has to be different. So maybe obvious, but I would 00:03:06.820 --> 00:03:13.220 not, it's wasn't obvious to me. So thanks for that help. The other part, which the, one of the other 00:03:13.220 --> 00:03:21.720 tricky bits is in order for uv to deal with this. Okay. The top level one, is it the top one? If 00:03:21.720 --> 00:03:28.720 workspace packages depend on each other, you got to do a couple of things. You have a normal dependency 00:03:28.720 --> 00:03:36.660 declaration and a tool.uv.sources entry telling uv to resolve it locally. So a project will have a 00:03:36.660 --> 00:03:40.940 dependency. It's going to have its own name. It's going to have a dependency and that dependency, 00:03:41.220 --> 00:03:47.740 if it's internal, you have to, in below say, you know, look, also look for uv sources in this workspace. 00:03:47.740 --> 00:03:54.060 So it doesn't go out to PyPI or whatever to try to find those dependencies. And yeah, I would not 00:03:54.060 --> 00:04:00.660 have even thought that that's built into uv. So that's cool. Didn't know that was there. The third bit 00:04:00.660 --> 00:04:08.080 that was to use import lib mode for pytest. And that's kind of one of the reasons why I wanted 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:14.000 to pick this because I'm not sure what they're talking about here. Apparently there's an issue. 00:04:14.100 --> 00:04:19.760 The issue is if you've got like something like the same test name, like test helpers in multiple 00:04:19.760 --> 00:04:26.120 projects, that's if you, if you don't, if you have unique file names, it's fine. But if you might not, 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:30.700 and, and, you know, as projects grow, you don't want to like restrict people's file name choice. 00:04:31.700 --> 00:04:37.520 We'll go ahead and do this, but I don't, the, there's like a couple of methods. There's the use, 00:04:37.640 --> 00:04:44.440 the import lib method, and then there's putting dunder and nets in your test directory. And the, 00:04:44.440 --> 00:04:49.860 the comment here is that this is, there's a silent bug with that. I wasn't familiar with this. So I'm, 00:04:49.980 --> 00:04:53.540 it's a homework for me for next week is to research this, to try to figure out 00:04:53.540 --> 00:04:59.900 what the deal is with this import lib versus dunder and net and how that behaves. So I'm going to, 00:04:59.940 --> 00:05:04.260 I'm going to work on that this week. So that's, that's my, my two cents there. 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:07.480 What an interesting idea these monorepos are, huh? 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.380 Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm, I was first resistant. I'm like, why not just split it up? But there's a 00:05:13.380 --> 00:05:19.980 lot of times where, I mean, for us, for me, that it's really that all the label can be one label for 00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:24.780 everything, for everything that's together. If you branch, it's all to branch together. 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.340 Merges are all together, all of that. And that's hard to do without a monorepos. 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:33.700 Yeah, it definitely is. Definitely is. I just want to throw in real quick that I 00:05:33.700 --> 00:05:38.080 interviewed Yarek and Mark from the Airflow team. 00:05:38.320 --> 00:05:38.620 Okay. 00:05:38.980 --> 00:05:44.980 About monorepos with uv and Prec. So that's episode 540. And I think that's a couple of weeks, 00:05:44.980 --> 00:05:49.960 a couple of weeks out on the official Talk Python channel, but it's on the live stream YouTube 00:05:49.960 --> 00:05:52.820 version, because that usually precedes things by a few weeks. 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.100 Cool. I'll have to check it out. 00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:58.860 As we record them and then let them out. So Airflow has something insane, like over a hundred 00:05:58.860 --> 00:06:04.540 sub projects or packages and dependencies across them and stuff. And they actually worked with uv, 00:06:04.700 --> 00:06:09.460 I believe, to like help set up that workspace feature and functionality and so on. So pretty cool. 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:09.940 Yeah. 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:14.400 All right. I want to, I want to carry on from last week. So last week we talked about 00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:20.720 Data Class Wizard. So now I want to talk about C attrs. So you probably know attrs from Hennig, 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:28.180 but what about C attrs? So C attrs is actually, it works with attrs and data classes and its job 00:06:28.180 --> 00:06:34.700 is to take and do very similar serialization and validation that you would find in Pydantic, 00:06:34.940 --> 00:06:42.080 but have it as a separate library. And so one of the things that I'm realizing as I sort of go 00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:49.040 through these examples. And when I chose my raw queries plus data classes pattern that we talked 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.380 about last week, I think it was last week, recently, that I really was valuing the fact that the data 00:06:54.380 --> 00:07:00.020 classes themselves were just that data classes. And maybe they got their own computed properties or 00:07:00.020 --> 00:07:04.400 something, but they don't, they were not in charge of serialization, deserialization, validation, 00:07:04.400 --> 00:07:10.600 but things like Data Class Wizards and C attrs, or just your data access layer, all those can have 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:17.060 really rich, you know, conversions, parsing, validation, et cetera, without actually being part 00:07:17.060 --> 00:07:21.660 of your object hierarchy and your class, right? So you can choose those things separately. And this is 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:28.440 right along those lines. So it's super cool. I can import structure and unstructure, which is 00:07:28.440 --> 00:07:34.780 to and from different types, but maybe dictionaries is the best mental model. And so I can say just parse 00:07:34.780 --> 00:07:41.220 one of these things as a class C, which you defined as a data class or an attrs class or something like 00:07:41.220 --> 00:07:46.640 that. And what you get out is one of those parsed and validated, right? Or you can unstructure it and 00:07:46.640 --> 00:07:54.320 becomes a dictionary. Okay. So that's pretty neat, but it's not just, it's not just attrs. Also works 00:07:54.320 --> 00:08:00.920 on data classes and let's see, there's a bunch of different types of validation. Let me see if I can 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:09.240 find it here in our example. So it does things like a message spec, message pack. It does YAML, 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:15.240 JSON, obviously. So there's a bunch of these different serialization libraries that you might 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:20.400 adopt, right? So it's really cool that you can do all different types of serialization and so on. 00:08:20.400 --> 00:08:25.520 And I think it's, yeah, I think it's really cool. You can set up hooks to help transform values and 00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:32.200 validate values through just basically decorators, which is kind of cool. Yeah. So more or less, 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:37.980 like, do you want a really nice structured way to serialize classes without making it part of the 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:42.480 object hierarchy and check out see attrs. That's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's I really like see 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:48.560 adders, especially for projects that like not reaching for a Pydantic seems like a natural thing to do 00:08:48.560 --> 00:08:54.780 with web stuff. But there's a lot of other times where you want similar sorts of data validation 00:08:54.780 --> 00:09:00.560 and other things that are like, like not web related. Yeah. This will work for web stuff too, 00:09:00.640 --> 00:09:05.580 of course. But yeah. Neat. Yeah. I think it's really cool to have that control. Like for example, 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:11.420 the, what I talked about was if you use Pydantic, it's awesome that it serializes data before it gets 00:09:11.420 --> 00:09:16.740 into your database, but it re validates that data when it comes out of your database. Why are you 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:20.600 validating data that's just stored in your database? You don't need to do that. It just happens to be, 00:09:20.680 --> 00:09:24.340 well, that's how Pydantic works. You load it with data. It validates it. Great. Right. So I, 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:30.520 that's what I think is neat about this separation, the sort of orthogonality of your validation and 00:09:30.520 --> 00:09:34.860 conversion layer and your class structure. Cause you can validate on the way in, but not on the way 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:39.100 out if that's how you like it. You know what I mean? Yeah. That makes sense. Definitely. Cool. 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:42.420 Yeah. Cool. Well, if I were to learn about this, what would you suggest? 00:09:42.420 --> 00:09:50.240 well, probably not AI. I don't know. nice transition attempt though. Thanks. 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:57.660 So, I want to cover a, listener suggestion. somebody, wrote in and said, Hey, 00:09:57.920 --> 00:10:05.120 um, we've been talking partially sometimes about, AI and LLMs and using agentic coding and stuff. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:11.400 this is from Jose Blanca. there's a few blog posts around, how do you utilize AI for 00:10:11.400 --> 00:10:16.280 learning to program? And, that's kind of an awesome topic. It's something I've been thinking 00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:22.020 about too, is, is for people like even, you know, people, my daughter's age and stuff want, 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:27.280 wanting to learn how to code or really anybody wanting to learn how to code. A lot of things like 00:10:27.280 --> 00:10:32.300 why, why would you want to learn how to code if there's a powerful AI tools already? how, 00:10:32.300 --> 00:10:36.480 like if you, if you're convinced that you do want to learn how to code, how could you use AI as a 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:42.320 tutor rather than a shortcut and, and keep practicing? It's, you know, one of those key 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:46.600 points is practice remains a key to real understanding. And then, you know, what, 00:10:46.740 --> 00:10:51.940 what should you learn? and I kind of love how we broke this down. So I'll read like the 00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:56.920 summaries of like, you know, why, why, of course, how and what, going through, 00:10:56.920 --> 00:11:02.900 there's just a few blog posts altogether, and really formatted nicely and put up. So, 00:11:02.900 --> 00:11:07.860 why would you learn for occasional programmer or a professional programmer or just for fun? 00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:13.540 There's lots of reasons, to want to learn how to program still. and one of them, 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:18.700 one of the things he brought up as like an occasional programmer is somebody that's doing something else. 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:22.900 Like they have a discipline such as biology, physics, whatever, something other than coding. 00:11:22.900 --> 00:11:29.120 And, but they need to, to code. One of the reasons to learn how to code is even if you want to drive 00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:35.180 it with AI is learning what kinds of problems that computers can solve easily or the right kinds of 00:11:35.180 --> 00:11:40.500 things. And, and with, with, with learning programming, you also learn how to break problems 00:11:40.500 --> 00:11:44.900 down into smaller pieces and stuff. There's a lot of stuff you learn with coding, that you, 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:50.000 that it's one of the few places that is practical that to learn how to do those sorts of things, 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:55.540 uh, breaking down problems. So lots of great reasons to, to do it for the why part. Um, 00:11:55.580 --> 00:12:02.860 how I love this is, not using AI to solve your exercise problems, because you know, 00:12:02.860 --> 00:12:08.680 you're not learning then, but, you could, you could do that and then look at what they're 00:12:08.680 --> 00:12:15.040 coming up with, but you can also use AI to, to, to ask you things to describe to an agent, 00:12:15.040 --> 00:12:19.760 like what, what level of coding you're at and could they come up with some programming problems 00:12:19.760 --> 00:12:23.780 for you? I never thought about that of like getting a coding, coding problems from them. 00:12:23.780 --> 00:12:29.680 and then, yeah. and then a caveat that there's limits to this and, and, to making 00:12:29.680 --> 00:12:35.120 people aware of, of, of the problem, some of the problems that we're aware of, like, hallucinations 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:42.140 or dreaming up, dreaming up different things. so, but there X, I do think that, 00:12:42.140 --> 00:12:48.140 that you can use AI as a teacher, a side teacher to generate tasks, debug things that you're having 00:12:48.140 --> 00:12:52.680 trouble with that your code doesn't work. Why is it not working? way back when, when I was 00:12:52.680 --> 00:12:57.900 learning how to code, it was, you did just bang your head out against the table, I guess. Um, 00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:04.080 and, look at all the syntax, but having, having AI helps a lot, getting hints, reviewing your 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.920 code, explaining what different things do. Lots of great stuff that LLMs can help you with. And then, 00:13:08.920 --> 00:13:13.420 um, the, what is really great. Don't skip this part. If you're going to look at these blog posts, 00:13:13.420 --> 00:13:20.100 uh, because, what you should do, you know, let's see, you know, what you should work on. What 00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:24.680 is the, what, what are the real learning objectives, mental models, managing complexity, 00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:30.340 and thinking like a software developer. these are all great things to, to focus on, depending 00:13:30.340 --> 00:13:35.220 on where you are in your career and how, where you, you know, where you were at. So anyway, this is, 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:40.300 um, and also just what good code looks like. Somebody new to coding doesn't really know what 00:13:40.300 --> 00:13:45.280 good code looks like until they, you know, it's good to, good to learn that sort of stuff. So, 00:13:45.540 --> 00:13:50.460 um, anyway, good job, Jose. I like, I like this. Yeah. Very nice. It's going to be a challenge. 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.980 I think it's so tempting to just press the easy button and go, okay, what's the answer or make it 00:13:54.980 --> 00:14:01.260 work. But those of us who are willing to say, this is not working, help me understand what's wrong. 00:14:01.260 --> 00:14:06.420 What are the other ways in which I could do it? I see you did it that way. Why did you do it that 00:14:06.420 --> 00:14:10.420 way? Was my way not right? Like AI is actually really good at having those conversations. 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:16.040 Yeah. And I think there's, there's some real gems. There's some opportunity here. There's 00:14:16.040 --> 00:14:21.760 a lot of, a lot of people, a lot of our youth, are not choosing CS right now. And I think that's 00:14:21.760 --> 00:14:27.380 fair, but even if you use, I think there's still room for people to get CS degrees, 00:14:27.380 --> 00:14:33.220 but there's also a lot of room for people to, and with AI, a lot of, it's a lot easier for somebody 00:14:33.220 --> 00:14:37.780 in another field to add it. Like if, if you're in biology, you're probably going to learn some 00:14:37.780 --> 00:14:44.820 coding anyway. But if you're like a history major or a doctor, like medical research or something, 00:14:45.100 --> 00:14:50.260 maybe not, but with, with AI's help, you can probably learn how to code also, 00:14:50.260 --> 00:14:54.620 and you'll be unstoppable when you get out of college. Yeah, absolutely. All right. It's an 00:14:54.620 --> 00:14:59.220 incredible tool. It's an incredible tool. I a hundred percent agree. All right. Let's talk 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:05.500 about other incredible tools, FastAPI. So Savannah Ostrowski points out, says, Hey, how are you? Are 00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:10.680 you using FastAPI? I'm reading from her LinkedIn post, of course. So good news. They have released 00:15:10.680 --> 00:15:18.660 an official FastAPI extension for VS Code on the marketplaces. So if you drop over there, there's the 00:15:18.660 --> 00:15:24.100 GitHub version and the marketplace version, I guess they kind of show you more or less the same thing, 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:28.280 kind of like PyPI. Like the read me just shows up in both places. I was like, do I really need this? 00:15:28.380 --> 00:15:32.640 I'm not sure if I need this. Maybe I need this, but if you look at it, it's doing some really cool 00:15:32.640 --> 00:15:40.260 things. GitHub anyway, like for example, I can switch over to FastAPI and it shows all of 00:15:40.260 --> 00:15:45.120 the different, what is it grouped by here? Does it actually group by router? Like, you know, 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:50.340 how you can break up your routes into organizations by router, or is it just by URL? Anyway, you can see 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:55.240 like slash items and under slash items. It says there's a get items. There's a get items ID. 00:15:55.240 --> 00:16:00.660 There's a post items put to the ID. And it actually shows you the function name. You can jump from this. 00:16:01.140 --> 00:16:07.640 So really quickly you can navigate around basically by the URL structure of your site. What do you think 00:16:07.640 --> 00:16:13.380 of that? That's pretty cool. Yeah. I think it looks really handy. You can also search for routes so you 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:19.740 can hit command shift command P I think, or maybe just command P pull up the command palette. And if 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:25.960 you type sub strings of the URLs or the routes really more accurately, maybe type items, it'll show 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:31.360 you all the things, all the URLs that involve items and you can select them out there and jump to like 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:38.640 get slash items or whatever. That's pretty neat. it has code lens for test client calls. So if you 00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:43.300 have a test client calling that URL and you could hover over it, I think that's how it works. You 00:16:43.300 --> 00:16:48.440 can hover over it and it'll actually take you to the server side. So that's pretty wild. Kind of like 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.660 the, the get lens. If you hover over, it'll say who it was committed by and click on it takes you to 00:16:52.660 --> 00:16:57.040 commit. And then you can also deploy to FastAPI cloud. You're not familiar with that. That's like 00:16:57.040 --> 00:17:04.080 the hosted super simple way to publish your code over to the internet somehow, wherever that goes, 00:17:04.080 --> 00:17:11.360 you just FastAPI deploy and then off it goes. And if it's a FastAPI app, it often can even figure 00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:15.400 out how to run it without you doing anything, which is really sweet. So that's great. So you can do that 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:20.940 straight from the extension there as well. And you can also view the logs of your application running 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:29.020 on FastAPI cloud in the terminal of your local VS Code. Yeah. Anyway. So if you are a FastAPI fan, 00:17:29.020 --> 00:17:34.420 especially for using FastAPI cloud also had those folks on talk Python, which is out in the main 00:17:34.420 --> 00:17:40.260 feed just a few weeks ago. So very fun to dig into that. But if you're a FastAPI person, regardless 00:17:40.260 --> 00:17:46.580 of how you cloud checking out the extension for VS Code and presumably cursor windsurf, et cetera, 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.340 anti-gravity, you know, all the things. Nice. Yeah. I like it. Well, I think that is it for 00:17:51.340 --> 00:17:55.980 all of our, our things, right? Yeah. Just some extras left. You got any? 00:17:55.980 --> 00:18:05.080 Yeah. So just noticed this yesterday actually is was that Guido Van Rossum has has a homepage 00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:11.760 on github.io and he started some interviews. So if you, if you look down blog posts, there's 00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:17.080 interviews with key Python developers for the first 25 years. It's a new series that he's doing. 00:18:17.080 --> 00:18:25.220 he's got Thomas Witters and Brett Cannon so far. And, at the preface for Thomas's 00:18:25.220 --> 00:18:30.940 interview talks about what he wants, what he's doing here. apparently during the, the, 00:18:31.100 --> 00:18:36.800 the recent, documentary that we had around Python, we talked about, there was some, 00:18:37.080 --> 00:18:42.140 some people talking about, like, there's a bunch of old timers that were not part of that. And also, 00:18:42.140 --> 00:18:46.220 um, you know, trying to, they weren't mentioned in the film, but probably are worth talking to. 00:18:46.620 --> 00:18:52.520 And so he decided to do some interviews himself, from his perspective of things that needed 00:18:52.520 --> 00:18:58.240 to be part of Python history, which is cool. And also that he likes, he likes, doing these 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:03.960 interviews and just releasing a text form instead of, instead of as a, like a podcast or something. 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:09.920 And actually, I think it's completely valid. It's, it's fine. It's good. but the format's 00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:15.900 nice. there's some interesting information. I kind of skimmed through both Thomas and Brett's 00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:19.940 interview and, I'm excited that he's doing this. So I'd like, keep it up. 00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:24.980 Yeah. That's pretty cool. I know a lot of people, I'm not amongst them, so I'm not going to rant it, 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:30.780 but a lot of people are like, why, if I just want to learn how to do a thing, do I have to watch a 15 00:19:30.780 --> 00:19:35.380 minute video that is, should have been a five minute video in the first place. And I just want 00:19:35.380 --> 00:19:41.220 to skim the article and jump to it. I like to watch videos and listen to things, but I know a lot of 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:45.960 people are just rather read it. There's room for both, right? That's right. But our listeners should 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.580 not stop listening. They should definitely, definitely. They should definitely keep listening. 00:19:50.100 --> 00:19:55.380 All right. Carrying on here. I got a speak. You mentioned the documentary for the Python one, 00:19:55.380 --> 00:20:02.260 the really nice one that Cult Repo did. Well, they just released one on IntelliJ, the documentary, 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:10.440 an origin story, which is a 40 minute documentary on IntelliJ, which is kind of the foundation of 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:15.420 PyCharm as well. Right. So very relevant to PyCharm fans. So people should check that out. That's 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:19.600 really nice. Cool. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. It's so easy to go on YouTube and just get 00:20:19.600 --> 00:20:25.340 junk, but here's some really nice things. And keeping with the PyCharm theme, right, we did VS Code and 00:20:25.340 --> 00:20:33.000 Curse earlier. So PyCharm. Apparently in PyCharm, they have the agent client protocol. And I don't 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.960 know all the different organizations involved in this, but this is just completely new to me. I 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:42.380 didn't realize what this was, but this is actually really neat. I'll tell you why in just a second. 00:20:42.660 --> 00:20:49.020 So what it does is if you've got some kind of agentic programming tool, like QuadCode or something, 00:20:49.020 --> 00:20:54.680 you can then just go to this and say, I would like anything that supports agent client protocol 00:20:54.680 --> 00:21:00.660 allows that agent to do agentic coding in your editor. It's a little bit like the language server 00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:07.140 allows all these different things to basically integrate with ty and Pyrefly and other stuff. 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:14.340 Right. Pretty cool. So if you scroll down here, the agents on ACP are Juni, Gemini, CLI, Google 00:21:14.340 --> 00:21:23.080 Copilot, GitHub Copilot, Codex, Cursor, Cursor, what? Cursor. I thought that was an editor. Kimi, 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:29.720 Quinn, OpenCode, Klein, some of these I've mentioned before, but the noise, the announcement here is that 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:35.440 Cursor joined the ACP registry and Cursor is now available in PyCharm. Cool. So that's interesting, 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:42.280 right? Yeah. I mean, I don't even, I don't even know what to say, but luckily there's a video down 00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:47.280 here that says, Oh, you could just watch this and it'll actually show you if you go along, 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:53.020 you just go in here and basically find and install Cursor and then your agentic coding section. One 00:21:53.020 --> 00:21:57.100 of the things you can pick is Cursor. If I go far enough, it'll show you like once it's set up, 00:21:57.280 --> 00:22:02.680 you can pick your agent source, like Cursor or Gemini wrote, and then you pick your agent mode and 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.120 thinking or planning and your actual model and so on. Isn't that wild? 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:07.440 Yeah. It's pretty cool. 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:11.940 Yeah. So I'm pretty, pretty happy to see that. That looks really cool. Okay. One more thing. 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:12.980 I wrote an R. Go ahead. 00:22:12.980 --> 00:22:17.440 So one of the things I'm hoping is like that might be a way for, so one of the cool things 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:24.160 about Cursor that I've been trying out is the, one of the models is Composer, which is a cursor 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:31.880 specific model. And, and it's like, for instance, it's one of the best models for doing pytest code. 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:37.980 So that I've found, so it's possible that people, and you, you know, out for other people to be able 00:22:37.980 --> 00:22:40.480 to use it then if you're, even if you're not using Cursor. So. 00:22:40.780 --> 00:22:46.680 Yeah, exactly. So now you can run Composer 1.5 or whatever the latest one is at your time. 00:22:46.900 --> 00:22:51.580 Right. Excited by Charm. Yeah. Pretty sweet. Okay. One article for me really quick. I wrote an article 00:22:51.580 --> 00:22:58.140 called what hyper personal software looks like. So a lot of people say, well, if agenda coding is so 00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:03.420 good, why aren't we seeing a ton of different pieces of software just overwhelming us with different 00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:08.320 new apps? I think that's actually going to happen, but I think there's a lag, but I think what we have 00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:13.800 a lot of, and what's going to be interesting is this hyper personal software. That is like something 00:23:13.800 --> 00:23:18.280 that you make for yourself and you don't ever have an intention of sharing. You're just like, I just 00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:22.920 want this agent. You make this and then you have it. Right. So for me, the example I gave is I'm a big 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.960 fan of start page. People probably know these days, that's what I've been using, but start page 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:33.260 started putting ads on their search results. And if they had just been like little ads at the 00:23:33.260 --> 00:23:38.220 top, I would have actually looked to click them to support them and so on. But I have a 40 inch 00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:45.820 monitor on that. It's like 11 K it's, you know, 5,000 by 2000, something pixels on that screen. 00:23:45.820 --> 00:23:52.660 My browser still does not have a single organic search results on above the fold. There's so many 00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:58.000 ads and I'm like, that is just this, what is this? So I told Claude, Hey Claude, I need a browser 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:01.740 extension. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to go here. Here's the HTML. I need to get 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:06.040 rid of these sponsored links from search from start page. So I typed in the description. I gave 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:10.720 it some example, HTML and I hit go and walked away to like make breakfast. Came back. It had 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.380 something that almost worked. I had to give it a little like, ah, you remove too much. Tell it a 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:19.400 few times. But now I have a browser extension that gives me just the organic results, nothing else. 00:24:19.660 --> 00:24:22.940 And I have no intention of sharing it. It's just my own browser extension that just runs on my 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:27.820 computer and I'm happy with it. I'm not published in the store, nothing. And I think we're going to see 00:24:27.820 --> 00:24:32.040 a lot of like a lot of things like that. And I think also people should explore those ideas 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:36.060 because they're really fun. They're super low stakes. Like if my search results get screwed 00:24:36.060 --> 00:24:40.880 up, I'll just turn off the extension. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I think there's going to be 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:47.100 this, this wave of hyper-personal software and here's an example. Yeah. I think that, that idea is 00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:52.680 going to show up in our joke later. It's absolutely going to show up on our joke and it's going to show up 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:57.220 my next item in the very, very most tangential way. So I'm actually trying something new, Brian. 00:24:57.300 --> 00:25:02.300 And this is for people out there who have companies, I would really love them to pay attention to this 00:25:02.300 --> 00:25:08.000 part. So I'm, I've done a lot of training. I don't know if people know, I've taught over 100 week long 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:12.940 courses around the world before I started doing the podcast and stuff. Like when I was doing training, 00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:18.520 which is a crazy amount of courses to give like professional development type stuff. So I am going to 00:25:18.520 --> 00:25:25.020 put my shingle back up for that just on very limited way to help people adopt agentic engineering 00:25:25.020 --> 00:25:30.680 practices for their software team. Cool. Not training in general, but if you're, if you've got a Python 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:36.980 team, especially, and you're like, wow, we're just not really having a lot of success with using AI for 00:25:36.980 --> 00:25:42.540 coding or our team is afraid of it, or they don't know how to do it. Reach out to me, set up a discovery 00:25:42.540 --> 00:25:47.060 call and we'll have a quick chat and I'd love to come. It's been three or four days, one day teaching, 00:25:47.060 --> 00:25:52.480 one day like coding along with your engineers and then like some more follow-up stuff to help them 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:57.580 really get this kind of stuff going. Oh, that's great. Cause yeah, a lot of people, a lot of teams 00:25:57.580 --> 00:26:04.560 are getting demands from above. Hey, you should be using coding agents, but how? But how, and then how 00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:09.980 do you not end up with a bunch of slop or a bunch of bugs or mouth, you know, like code not following 00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:14.200 your practices. I really dialed that in over the last year and I think I'd, I'd love to share that with 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:19.080 people. So cool. Nice. Thanks. That's, that's out there. People can find it on my personal website. 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:24.940 All right. And you're right. All of this leads in perfectly to our joke, doesn't it? So are you 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:29.960 ready? Yeah. All right. So this comes to us, this is on Reddit. It looks like it actually came off of, 00:26:30.220 --> 00:26:35.560 I don't know, off of X or whatever. It doesn't matter. So there's been this crazy open claw. 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:41.200 It was like molt, there was claw bot and then molt bot. There's like all these variations that it went 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:46.360 through. But open claw is this thing that you can set up and you just give it access to your email, 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:50.840 your calendar, your credit card, everything. And it can just, you could just send it jobs and it'll 00:26:50.840 --> 00:26:55.640 just go crazy sometimes in really, really bad ways. But it is kind of supposed to be this thing that 00:26:55.640 --> 00:27:01.800 just runs and does a bunch of agentic stuff without your work. Right. So you've heard that AI means that 00:27:01.800 --> 00:27:07.640 SaaS, like hosted software created by other people that you subscribe to, SaaS is dead. So here's, 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:14.020 here's this quote or this message from Johan that says, SaaS is dead. Open claw replaced all my 00:27:14.020 --> 00:27:22.240 subscriptions. Went from $480 a month on tools to $1,245 a month on API costs plus 15 hours a week 00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:31.320 fixing my YAML files. Adapt or be left behind losers. That's so awesome. It's so much of the 00:27:31.320 --> 00:27:36.940 zeitgeist, isn't it? Yeah. It's got 2000 upvotes as well on Reddit, but the comments are good. 00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:42.360 Okay. Solid math, solid work. If I, if I were you, I would spend the next 200 hours crafting a 00:27:42.360 --> 00:27:48.100 premium info product that sells this magic method you've unearthed. Someone says, I must admit, 00:27:48.140 --> 00:27:54.180 it's kind of funny, but it doesn't say they misspelled. It says, I must admin. It's kind 00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:58.600 of funny. And it says, please update the YAML file. So you don't misspell, misspell admin again. 00:27:58.600 --> 00:28:03.980 Oh, that's good. And then there's a really good one. Let me see if I can find it. 00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:10.080 This person over here says, SaaS is hardly dead. Kind of foolish to think every business will try 00:28:10.080 --> 00:28:14.600 to roll their own suddenly to find out and find that you don't have the skill to fully conceptualize, 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:20.860 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then somebody's, somebody says nude irony, huh? 00:28:20.860 --> 00:28:27.280 Yeah. Cause they just took it literally like, Oh my God, I can't believe he's trying to adopt this. 00:28:27.320 --> 00:28:28.220 This is not going to work. 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:31.240 Yeah. That's funny. 00:28:31.540 --> 00:28:33.940 All right. Let's leave it there. New to, new to irony, huh? 00:28:34.180 --> 00:28:34.420 Yeah. 00:28:36.100 --> 00:28:37.220 The opposites are frankly. 00:28:37.560 --> 00:28:41.020 Yeah. Anyway, that's really funny. I'm, I definitely think that's a good choice. 00:28:41.020 --> 00:28:44.240 Just spend all your time fixing the claw bot. 00:28:45.340 --> 00:28:45.520 All right. 00:28:45.620 --> 00:28:51.520 And I went from a 540 to like over a thousand API costs. That's hilarious. 00:28:51.700 --> 00:28:55.460 Exactly. Exactly. I don't know about you, but I've got three broken agents over there. 00:28:55.460 --> 00:28:57.000 So I got to get going. I'll talk to you later. 00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:57.800 All right. Bye. 00:28:57.980 --> 00:28:58.580 All right. Bye.