Michael Kennedy: Hello and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly
Michael Kennedy: to your earbuds.
Michael Kennedy: This is episode 482,
Michael Kennedy: recorded Monday,
Michael Kennedy: June 1st.
Michael Kennedy: I'm Michael Kennedy.
Michael Kennedy: And I'm Brian Okken.
Michael Kennedy: This episode is brought to you by us and all of the Python things that we're doing.
Michael Kennedy: Check out pythontest.com, get Brian's multiple courses over there,
Michael Kennedy: even something to do with
Michael Kennedy: Lean TDD,
Michael Kennedy: if you want to check that out.
Michael Kennedy: I hear that an audio book is underway,
Michael Kennedy: which is super cool.
Michael Kennedy: and got a couple new courses over at Talk Python,
Michael Kennedy: especially the new OWASP top 10 security plus agentic AI.
Michael Kennedy: Like how do you take Claude Code or something like that?
Michael Kennedy: Plus known recognized patterns like the OWASP top 10
Michael Kennedy: and make your code safe.
Michael Kennedy: That's what that course is about.
Michael Kennedy: So check out those kinds of things.
Michael Kennedy: That's what we're bringing you this week.
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Michael Kennedy: So just do that on the website.
Michael Kennedy: With that,
Michael Kennedy: Brian,
Michael Kennedy: I think it might be time.
Michael Kennedy: Should we kick it off?
Michael Kennedy: Speaking of security.
Brian Okken: We have a security issue,
Brian Okken: but the issue I think is resolved.
Brian Okken: We just, I'm highlighting an article that's about the maintainer.
Brian Okken: So this is interesting.
Brian Okken: So this is the CVE,
Brian Okken: I'm not going to, let's see.
Brian Okken: CVE 2026,
Brian Okken: 48710, a maintainer's perspective.
Brian Okken: So this is from Marcelo Trilasinski.
Brian Okken: Cool name.
Brian Okken: Anyway, this is about a security advisory from Starlet.
Brian Okken: So even,
Brian Okken: so there's a, what,
Brian Okken: isn't FastAPI used Starlet, I think?
Brian Okken: I do believe so,
Brian Okken: yeah.
Brian Okken: And a bunch of other stuff too.
Brian Okken: So even if you don't think that you're using Starlet, you might be using Starlet.
Brian Okken: So the short version is you probably ought to upgrade to 1.0.1 if you haven't already.
Brian Okken: um the that's one of the versions if if you don't care about the like the nitty-gritty of this just
Brian Okken: do that the other part is an interesting thing about basically that this is an interesting article
Brian Okken: it's kind of hard to cover but i wanted to bring it up because it does uh we do have more and more
Brian Okken: ai things like attack both both trying to attack websites and also so we have to keep up on security
Brian Okken: updates,
Brian Okken: but also a lot of these security vulnerability reports against projects.
Brian Okken: And
Brian Okken: a lot of these projects like Starlette are not,
Brian Okken: they're not a commercial enterprise.
Brian Okken: It's an
Brian Okken: open source project with volunteer maintainers.
Brian Okken: So that's really what we're talking about here
Brian Okken: is a little bit of that. And also the problem really wasn't with Starlet. And apparently
Brian Okken: they got some bad press in a couple of places because of a vulnerability.
Brian Okken: But this,
Brian Okken: I'm going
Brian Okken: read this interesting interesting thing the vulnerability came came from a pattern an
Brian Okken: application pattern and the deployment never from something starlet intended and um there's a
Brian Okken: description in the in the link about what the issue is and it i actually got lost um so it's
Brian Okken: something about like yeah i'm not even going to try to summarize it because i got lost here um
Brian Okken: But there's one description of the bug.
Brian Okken: It says from Ostif, I don't know what Ostif is,
Brian Okken: but an Ostif article,
Brian Okken: this bug is a classic
Brian Okken: responsibility gap where this maintainer didn't patch,
Brian Okken: where if this maintainer didn't patch,
Brian Okken: then thousands of exposed projects would have to individually secure their projects.
Brian Okken: In doing this work, they've voluntarily taken on the responsibility to protect the ecosystem
Brian Okken: from long-term systemic harm.
Brian Okken: As with all open source projects,
Brian Okken: they owed us nothing
Brian Okken: and could have left it for everyone else's problem
Brian Okken: and took,
Brian Okken: but they took the extraordinary steps
Brian Okken: of helping the ecosystem.
Brian Okken: Please consider donating to Glutex,
Brian Okken: which is the person that wrote this article,
Brian Okken: which is an interesting And
Brian Okken: I believe the maintainer of Starlette as well.
Brian Okken: Okay,
Brian Okken: yeah,
Brian Okken: you're right. And also,
Brian Okken: so apparently Ars Technica even covered it.
Brian Okken: And we've referenced the articles a lot,
Brian Okken: you know, in the past,
Brian Okken: sometimes some good stuff.
Brian Okken: But apparently they reached out and said,
Brian Okken: you know,
Brian Okken: this seems to be serious.
Brian Okken: Do you have any comments?
Brian Okken: How severe is it?
Brian Okken: And they didn't.
Brian Okken: They sent that request out two hours before publication.
Brian Okken: And since they didn't get a response,
Brian Okken: they posted that.
Brian Okken: They didn't.
Brian Okken: They asked,
Brian Okken: but didn't get a reply from Starlette.
Brian Okken: And two hours?
Brian Okken: Anyway.
Brian Okken: The article goes on to talk about the burden of triaging,
Brian Okken: how many security advisories come in,
Brian Okken: all the work that's involved.
Brian Okken: And also that places like Ars Technica and others treat open source projects as if they're a for-profit corporation and expect like a PR department and stuff.
Brian Okken: And there's not.
Brian Okken: It's just people.
Brian Okken: So anyway.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Brian Okken: Do you have anything else to add to this or just interesting?
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, it's just interesting.
Michael Kennedy: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: It doesn't look like a super dangerous vulnerability,
Michael Kennedy: I don't think,
Michael Kennedy: but definitely go out and patch.
Michael Kennedy: And it's a 1.0.0 to 1.0.1 bump.
Michael Kennedy: So it's not like you've got to jump a major version.
Brian Okken: Yeah, definitely patch.
Brian Okken: But also,
Brian Okken: I think it's,
Brian Okken: I don't know how to get out of this, but because we have a lot of these open source projects that big companies are relying on,
Brian Okken: and they want the reaction times of a paid product.
Brian Okken: And they just,
Brian Okken: yeah.
Brian Okken: And actually.
Michael Kennedy: You know what?
Michael Kennedy: They could do that by maybe putting the maintainer on a healthy retainer,
Michael Kennedy: making the project sustainable and say,
Michael Kennedy: look, we'll pay you $2,000 a month and we probably won't ask you anything for a long time.
Michael Kennedy: But if we need you, we need you to jump in and we'll then pay you out earlier.
Michael Kennedy: I don't know, something like that, right?
Michael Kennedy: That would,
Michael Kennedy: if you get five companies doing that,
Michael Kennedy: I bet you can get some response time out of that.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Brian Okken: But the ironic reverse thing is actual paid products are really slow to patch anything.
Brian Okken: So we actually get usually faster response times from open source projects.
Brian Okken: So anyway.
Michael Kennedy: Indeed,
Michael Kennedy: indeed.
Michael Kennedy: All right, let's go and chat a bit about the Daily Stars Explorer.
Michael Kennedy: This is a fun project,
Michael Kennedy: Brian.
Michael Kennedy: So what this is, this is a web app that's open source on GitHub.
Michael Kennedy: What is it built with?
Michael Kennedy: Scrolling.
Michael Kennedy: It's built with JavaScript and Go.
Michael Kennedy: So,
Michael Kennedy: but it doesn't matter because it's not about the internals.
Michael Kennedy: It's about the information you get about different projects,
Michael Kennedy: including Python ones.
Michael Kennedy: So it's an app that you can put in a repository,
Michael Kennedy: and it will give you just basically historical information about the stars sliced and diced in all these statistical ways.
Michael Kennedy: Ooh,
Michael Kennedy: neat.
Michael Kennedy: So it has full star history,
Michael Kennedy: hourly stars.
Michael Kennedy: You can compare side-by-side repos,
Michael Kennedy: activity timelines of like show me the commits over time,
Michael Kennedy: which is kind of interesting.
Michael Kennedy: You can favorite them and so on.
Michael Kennedy: You can see when the repos were mentioned on Hacker News,
Michael Kennedy: Reddit,
Michael Kennedy: YouTube,
Michael Kennedy: and GitHub,
Michael Kennedy: and you download the data for feeding to your AI or feeding to your data science stack.
Michael Kennedy: So I think this is pretty cool.
Michael Kennedy: And let's just do this by,
Michael Kennedy: let me first find the Flask repo.
Michael Kennedy: One second.
Michael Kennedy: All right, so let's go and open up the little demo.
Michael Kennedy: So it's a web app, which means you have to self-host it.
Michael Kennedy: However,
Michael Kennedy: if you just want to try it out, I think just use the demo and put whatever you want in there.
Michael Kennedy: Unless you want to save your history and stuff.
Michael Kennedy: But let's go over and put Flask in.
Michael Kennedy: And it thinks for a moment.
Michael Kennedy: The first time you get one in there, I put a repo in there.
Michael Kennedy: It takes a minute to download all the data from GitHub.
Michael Kennedy: But because I put that in there before,
Michael Kennedy: it kind of goes more quickly.
Michael Kennedy: So you can see right now Flask has 71,598 stars.
Michael Kennedy: And you can have different themes,
Michael Kennedy: of course, for the thing.
Michael Kennedy: It shows you the total stars over time.
Michael Kennedy: So you've got this graph,
Michael Kennedy: this orange line, if you pull it up,
Michael Kennedy: is the integral or something like that.
Michael Kennedy: And here's the stars per day,
Michael Kennedy: like 13,
Michael Kennedy: 15,
Michael Kennedy: whatever.
Michael Kennedy: And then the scales are different.
Michael Kennedy: One goes up to 80,000, another goes to 30.
Michael Kennedy: But you take the integral of the top curve, you get the bottom curve.
Michael Kennedy: Sum up all the stars.
Michael Kennedy: It's very cool.
Michael Kennedy: You can break it down by over five years,
Michael Kennedy: quarterly,
Michael Kennedy: years a day.
Michael Kennedy: you can go and say, I want to transform this by, I want to just look at trend lines,
Michael Kennedy: or I want to look at monthly bend stars,
Michael Kennedy: or maybe I want to normalize the stars across
Michael Kennedy: and have like a little,
Michael Kennedy: you know,
Michael Kennedy: lines.
Michael Kennedy: What else?
Michael Kennedy: We've got the running median and week over week growth.
Michael Kennedy: Neat, right?
Michael Kennedy: Shows you how old the repository is.
Michael Kennedy: 16 years, one month,
Michael Kennedy: 26 days,
Michael Kennedy: 68 stars the last day.
Michael Kennedy: So I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: A lot of times you maybe want to think about what project do I actually want to work on or base my project upon?
Michael Kennedy: And obviously stars are not everything,
Michael Kennedy: but it's certainly something.
Michael Kennedy: Could we pull up here? Come on now, get away.
Michael Kennedy: You're right about this auto-hide stuff,
Michael Kennedy: right?
Michael Kennedy: So where can I find?
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, I don't know where to pull up the commits from this one right off the top of my head.
Michael Kennedy: But anyway, it'd be cool to see the commits because that would let you answer some interesting questions as well,
Michael Kennedy: right?
Michael Kennedy: Like if you see the commits just come to a stop two years ago, you're like,
Michael Kennedy: oh,
Michael Kennedy: I see.
Brian Okken: So where's the work happening?
Brian Okken: Like where is it?
Brian Okken: Is it getting this data from in the browser or where's,
Brian Okken: when's the?
Michael Kennedy: There's a,
Michael Kennedy: there's a Go based web app running on someone's server that these,
Michael Kennedy: you know,
Michael Kennedy: that they've got up here that I believe.
Michael Kennedy: And then it just,
Michael Kennedy: it happens over there.
Michael Kennedy: If I pulled up a different one, you would see it grind away for maybe 10, 15 seconds.
Brian Okken: Well, that's a lot of data and a lot of graphs.
Brian Okken: I'm just,
Brian Okken: the pickiness in me, I'm like, well, what graph doesn't it have?
Brian Okken: I don't see any candlestick bar graphs.
Brian Okken: Sorry.
Brian Okken: Yeah, I know.
Brian Okken: It's pretty neat, though,
Brian Okken: if you want to explore some repos.
Brian Okken: It's cool.
Brian Okken: I haven't seen people include YouTube references before and something like that.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, yeah, and there's all this side stuff over here.
Michael Kennedy: You can compare.
Michael Kennedy: Here's the commits.
Michael Kennedy: So give it a moment.
Michael Kennedy: See, now it's grinding because I didn't ask for the commits on Flask earlier today.
Michael Kennedy: You can see PRs, issues,
Michael Kennedy: forks.
Michael Kennedy: Like, that's pretty neat.
Michael Kennedy: It's kind of hidden in this little hamburger menu on the left,
Michael Kennedy: but if you expand it out.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: But it'll probably take,
Michael Kennedy: this should be interesting, I think.
Michael Kennedy: I've got some ideas.
Michael Kennedy: But I don't know, it'll take maybe 30 seconds.
Michael Kennedy: There you go.
Michael Kennedy: So year over, or all time, you can see there's quite a few commits
Michael Kennedy: and trending downward.
Michael Kennedy: It's kind of a, honestly,
Michael Kennedy: kind of a done product,
Michael Kennedy: you know.
Michael Kennedy: I don't mean that in a positive or negative way.
Michael Kennedy: There's a few things left that I think Flask could do.
Michael Kennedy: Primarily,
Michael Kennedy: I think one of the,
Michael Kennedy: there's probably two things to work on.
Michael Kennedy: I think primarily you could work on maybe some performance stuff to make Flask better.
Michael Kennedy: And you could unify the true async court and the sort of pseudo async, regular Flask async functionality.
Michael Kennedy: I know David and Phillip are like working towards making those just one thing.
Michael Kennedy: But you know, that could be a lot of work right there.
Michael Kennedy: That could be happening.
Michael Kennedy: But other than that, I kind of feel like Flask is sort of done.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Anyway,
Michael Kennedy: this is not about Flask.
Michael Kennedy: It's Flask as an example.
Michael Kennedy: It's about the Daily Stars Explorer, which I think is pretty cool.
Brian Okken: Just a link to us from last week.
Brian Okken: No project's ever done because you have to test on new Python versions every year.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: And if it completely gets read as done, then it starts to get really badly.
Michael Kennedy: Because it's dust and stuff.
Michael Kennedy: All right.
Michael Kennedy: Exactly.
Michael Kennedy: It gets read as if it were dead.
Michael Kennedy: How about something to markdown?
Michael Kennedy: Maybe document it?
Michael Kennedy: Write a book about it?
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Brian Okken: So I like a lot of markdown.
Brian Okken: I use it a lot of all the time.
Brian Okken: I'm actually writing,
Brian Okken: I wrote the Python testing with pytest in Markdown.
Brian Okken: I'm writing LeanTDD in Markdown.
Brian Okken: Use it for blog posts.
Brian Okken: Use it for everything.
Brian Okken: So what's new about this?
Brian Okken: What's new is I just learned about a tool called Types.
Brian Okken: I think it's type.
Brian Okken: It even says how to pronounce it, and I didn't look.
Brian Okken: So T-Y-P-S-T.
Brian Okken: So I needed a new formatting thing because I'm trying to self-publish LeanTDD,
Brian Okken: and I didn't like the book,
Brian Okken: the print book versions of output that I have available.
Brian Okken: So I wanted to customize that.
Brian Okken: So I reached out to all of our good friend,
Brian Okken: Matt Harrison,
Brian Okken: because he self-published and
Brian Okken: said, Matt, what do you use?
Brian Okken: And he's using types now.
Brian Okken: So I tried to check it out.
Brian Okken: So the gist is that Pandoc converts to PDF,
Brian Okken: but it does it through LaTeX.
Brian Okken: And I don't really like LaTeX.
Brian Okken: And you have to download something extra anyway to get Pandoc to convert it.
Brian Okken: So,
Brian Okken: and then,
Brian Okken: but there's types.
Brian Okken: It's actually quite a pain.
Michael Kennedy: It's not just a, it's like three or four libraries.
Michael Kennedy: They're all,
Michael Kennedy: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: They're just, it's weird.
Michael Kennedy: It's not great.
Brian Okken: Okay.
Brian Okken: So I'll jump to the punchline is I've got a convert script now that does,
Brian Okken: converts
Brian Okken: Pandoc to type,
Brian Okken: TYP.
Brian Okken: And I don't know what the official extension is, but I just named it.
Brian Okken: So you say two types in for Pandoc, but it's a fairly recent Pandoc that,
Brian Okken: There's been updates recently,
Brian Okken: so you'll want to upgrade your Pandoc first,
Brian Okken: then convert your markdown,
Brian Okken: and then take the type TYP output,
Brian Okken: and you do types to compile,
Brian Okken: and then the output.
Brian Okken: And I did a little example,
Brian Okken: so it's just a normal markdown, and it just converts it to some nice PDF.
Brian Okken: So there's a whole bunch of cool...
Brian Okken: Oh, and it has syntax highlighting as well?
Brian Okken: Oh,
Brian Okken: yeah.
Brian Okken: It does syntax highlighting,
Brian Okken: and there's so much that it does.
Brian Okken: It has mathematical symbols.
Brian Okken: It is a replacement for LaTeX,
Brian Okken: for one, but it's very much simpler.
Brian Okken: And I,
Brian Okken: in like an hour of twiddling with it, I have a fairly decent book template for the new book.
Brian Okken: And yeah, so I'm pretty happy with it.
Brian Okken: And this has been around for a while, and I just didn't know about it.
Brian Okken: So that's why I'm bringing it up.
Brian Okken: And installing wise,
Brian Okken: just brew.
Brian Okken: For a Mac, brew.
Brian Okken: On Windows,
Brian Okken: there was some other process I did,
Brian Okken: but it's so much easier than the LaTeX chain to install.
Brian Okken: So I'm pretty happy with this tool.
Brian Okken: So thanks.
Brian Okken: So I was so happy with it.
Brian Okken: I did a little blog post to share with people.
Michael Kennedy: Excellent.
Michael Kennedy: That is really interesting.
Michael Kennedy: I might start using that because right now I'm doing just straight markdown
Michael Kennedy: to Pandoc for Talk Python in production.
Michael Kennedy: And it's really good for EPUB,
Michael Kennedy: but it's kind of janky for PDF
Michael Kennedy: and it's kind of janky for Kindle
Michael Kennedy: because Kindle can't read it quite right.
Michael Kennedy: So I have to do like remove
Michael Kennedy: a few little niceties for Kindle.
Michael Kennedy: So anyway,
Michael Kennedy: certainly worth considering.
Michael Kennedy: Really?
Michael Kennedy: Thanks,
Michael Kennedy: yeah.
Brian Okken: Oh,
Brian Okken: I'm not having,
Brian Okken: I guess I haven't tried.
Michael Kennedy: I'll have to try the Kindle version.
Michael Kennedy: The problem that I run into with Kindle
Michael Kennedy: is somehow the way that Pandoc
Michael Kennedy: is doing code syntax highlighting breaks the display on Kindle
Michael Kennedy: because,
Michael Kennedy: I don't know, there's something about new lines or spans
Michael Kennedy: or something that get treated differently,
Michael Kennedy: and then the spacing gets really weird.
Michael Kennedy: It's annoying.
Brian Okken: Okay.
Brian Okken: I will definitely...
Brian Okken: Give it a look and see what it looks like.
Brian Okken: I'll have to try that.
Brian Okken: And,
Brian Okken: yeah,
Brian Okken: so I'll try that probably today.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: I mean, the books are identical for me
Michael Kennedy: other than the Kindle ones don't have syntax highlighting,
Michael Kennedy: which is generally okay because most Kindles are black and white,
Michael Kennedy: but I know some are not.
Brian Okken: Oh,
Brian Okken: okay.
Brian Okken: So on black and white,
Brian Okken: Kindle, it looks okay?
Michael Kennedy: If I compile a separate version,
Michael Kennedy: a separate Kindle EPUB that disables syntax highlighting in Pandoc, yes.
Michael Kennedy: Oh,
Michael Kennedy: okay.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: I'll have to look at that.
Michael Kennedy: So that was the fix.
Michael Kennedy: I'm just like, all right, well,
Michael Kennedy: dash, dash,
Michael Kennedy: no, whatever the syntax is.
Michael Kennedy: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: It's been a while since I wrote the alias that just does it, you know?
Michael Kennedy: Okay.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, I'll take a look.
Michael Kennedy: Hmm.
Michael Kennedy: All right.
Michael Kennedy: Well,
Michael Kennedy: this one, Brian, this should be yours.
Michael Kennedy: This should be yours, but no, I got it.
Michael Kennedy: This one is mine.
Michael Kennedy: So I want to talk about Postman to pytest.
Michael Kennedy: Okay.
Michael Kennedy: This is a cool project.
Michael Kennedy: It comes to us from Mikhail,
Michael Kennedy: and people might be familiar with the Postman app.
Michael Kennedy: I'm a big fan of the Postman app.
Michael Kennedy: It's pretty neat.
Michael Kennedy: Do you use it?
Michael Kennedy: Do you know it?
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, so the way it works is you create these collections
Michael Kennedy: that are like groups of different API calls
Michael Kennedy: that in aggregate demonstrate or test some kind of API,
Michael Kennedy: right?
Michael Kennedy: You can organize them into folders,
Michael Kennedy: but also you can do collections and then share these collections with teammates
Michael Kennedy: and team collections.
Michael Kennedy: I did that notably for the Talk Python Horses app that's in the Mac,
Michael Kennedy: not the Mac, the app,
Michael Kennedy: the iOS and the Google Play Store.
Michael Kennedy: So I need all the APIs that I'm creating for this to be tested,
Michael Kennedy: documented, clear.
Michael Kennedy: You can do stuff that should pass,
Michael Kennedy: stuff that should fail, and so on.
Michael Kennedy: So if your team uses Postman,
Michael Kennedy: then this project here you might like
Michael Kennedy: It converts Postman collections,
Michael Kennedy: which I just described, into executable Python test suite,
Michael Kennedy: a pytest test suite.
Michael Kennedy: Nice.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: And it's super simple.
Michael Kennedy: So all you do is you just say,
Michael Kennedy: you know, you install it, probably uv if it says pip install, but come on now.
Michael Kennedy: uv tool install.
Michael Kennedy: Let's go.
Michael Kennedy: So it says Postman to pytest --collection.
Michael Kennedy: Give it some collection.
Michael Kennedy: And then you say output this Python test file.
Michael Kennedy: And that's it.
Michael Kennedy: And then run Python.
Michael Kennedy: not right, run pytest to run it.
Michael Kennedy: So that's pretty neat.
Michael Kennedy: That will actually set the environment
Michael Kennedy: so that things like the base URL,
Michael Kennedy: which can vary depending on configs
Michael Kennedy: like dev versus prod or whatever,
Michael Kennedy: and then it just runs it through pytest.
Michael Kennedy: And what's cool is you could version this test file
Michael Kennedy: and then just rerun this to regenerate it when it's time.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Brian Okken: Also, if you did that, if you versioned it,
Brian Okken: then you could rerun it and do the diffs
Brian Okken: to see what changed in your collections.
Michael Kennedy: yeah that's right yeah you could regenerate it and just go oh i see we've got this or this
Michael Kennedy: api actually changed because now it takes this additional header and that's why the test was
Michael Kennedy: failing i don't know something like that so if i mean this is a big if if you use postman but
Michael Kennedy: i think this is a really handy and it's just like hey i've got this stuff locked into this app
Michael Kennedy: and it can run things it can do test type things but really you probably want it in py test land
Michael Kennedy: and this uh cool little app and this cool little utility does it so good work miko yeah one of the
Brian Okken: things that he mentioned to us when he shared this project was, which I thought was interesting,
Brian Okken: is the division of a whole bunch of developers and then that use Postman during development,
Brian Okken: which is common,
Brian Okken: right? I think.
Brian Okken: And then a smaller quality assurance team or part-time
Brian Okken: person, I think it was him,
Brian Okken: that needs to support some of this stuff.
Brian Okken: And so you've got the same
Brian Okken: source.
Brian Okken: You've got the developers developing what they think is the right thing.
Brian Okken: And to be able to
Brian Okken: take that and convert it to something that a smaller test team can maintain.
Brian Okken: And that's a
Brian Okken: cool model to do that with. So one source of truth.
Brian Okken: Nice.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah, it's almost like treating like a
Michael Kennedy: database,
Michael Kennedy: right?
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah.
Brian Okken: Do you have extras?
Brian Okken: I have one extra for today.
Brian Okken: And my extra is that
Brian Okken: I snuck this in for the last blog post that I shared was actually on testandcode.org.
Brian Okken: So I am writing,
Brian Okken: I'm going to start writing there, I think a little bit.
Brian Okken: So I'm linking to
Brian Okken: new blog, who dis?
Brian Okken: There is not much there yet since I just put it online,
Brian Okken: but I'll link to the
Brian Okken: other stuff uh one of the funny things that happened to me last night was i went to uh publish
Brian Okken: this at testandcode.com and i had let it expire because the old podcast was dead so um so what
Brian Okken: happened i just uh i'm like uh well somebody else grabbed it some squatter sitting on it now so i
Brian Okken: just uh registered.org that works um and i and i the important thing i could just keep blogging on
Brian Okken: Python test, but I do want to,
Brian Okken: I want to use this testing code name as the publisher for Lean TDD.
Brian Okken: So it's self-published through me,
Brian Okken: but it's kind of, I don't know,
Brian Okken: it's not fake. It just looks
Brian Okken: kind of fun to have a different publisher than my name or Amazon or something like that. So
Brian Okken: that's what I want to do.
Brian Okken: Anyway, that's my extra.
Brian Okken: How about something funny?
Michael Kennedy: I think it's time for something funny.
Michael Kennedy: Indeed.
Michael Kennedy: Let's jump over.
Michael Kennedy: So this joke is called centering
Michael Kennedy: a div and it's it's based on mr beast you know you do do you know mr beast no but yes yes i know
Michael Kennedy: it's it's certainly not a thing that i would watch on youtube however sure no i would watch animal
Michael Kennedy: fails come on uh it's i really don't watch mr beast it's kind of annoying to me it's but what
Michael Kennedy: a phenomenon right so for people who don't know done by this guy jimmy donald james jimmy john
Michael Kennedy: Donaldson and his net worth from his YouTube projects and beyond,
Michael Kennedy: you know,
Michael Kennedy: it's $2.6 billion.
Michael Kennedy: It's ridiculous.
Michael Kennedy: So it basically,
Michael Kennedy: it follows a theme, like we're going to put you in some crazy
Michael Kennedy: situation and throughout the situation.
Michael Kennedy: And at the end,
Michael Kennedy: whoever kind of completes it gets some
Michael Kennedy: ridiculous amount of money. Like, Hey,
Michael Kennedy: we're all going to hang onto a car,
Michael Kennedy: like a Tesla and whoever
Michael Kennedy: hangs onto it long enough gets a Tesla.
Michael Kennedy: Oh, by the way, the person who doesn't go to the bathroom,
Michael Kennedy: The longest gets an extra $100,000.
Michael Kennedy: You know, like ridiculous stuff like that, right?
Michael Kennedy: So,
Michael Kennedy: queued up.
Michael Kennedy: Here's the joke.
Michael Kennedy: Centering a div.
Michael Kennedy: Mr.
Michael Kennedy: Beast plans to trap a thousand vibe coders in a room without Claude.
Michael Kennedy: First person to center a div manually wins $1 million.
Brian Okken: It's not fair.
Brian Okken: Nobody will get it.
Brian Okken: I know, exactly.
Brian Okken: It's like, it's impossible.
Michael Kennedy: Can't be done.
Michael Kennedy: And then down here, one of them is center horizontally,
Michael Kennedy: vertically or both like oh oh oh vertically it's just impossible now i don't even know if it's hard
Michael Kennedy: anymore actually it just it used to be hard but i don't know if it is i think it depends how you
Michael Kennedy: write it like if you did a flex box you know but if you did old school way it's a little harder yeah
Brian Okken: that's sort of funny to think about though because the uh the did the vibe i don't vibe code but i
Brian Okken: i also don't write css by hand anymore uh i use use something else to do it for me so anyway
Brian Okken: ah funny um one of the things i actually was at a dinner party the other day and um uh somebody
Brian Okken: said they wanted to start they take a lot of videos and i said oh cool can i watch them somewhere
Brian Okken: and he's like well um i was gonna i said you should like throw them up on instagram or something
Brian Okken: uh whatever and he's like well i'm gonna start doing on youtube because you know that mr beast
Brian Okken: makes like millions of dollars and one of the things i i mean the i don't watch these videos
Brian Okken: and maybe they're funny maybe they're not i don't know it's not my thing but one of the things that's
Brian Okken: unfortunate is it kind of an it makes some people believe that they can do that also and i don't i
Brian Okken: think this is a one-off random thing i think it's it's just you know it was at the right time right
Michael Kennedy: place it was its own thing yeah and how much did he make for the first three years he was doing it i
Michael Kennedy: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: I don't even mind it lost money.
Michael Kennedy: I'm not sure.
Michael Kennedy: He would just go up to random people, give him $1,000 for stuff.
Michael Kennedy: I don't know where he got the $1,000 to start this idea with.
Michael Kennedy: Is that how it started at the beginning?
Michael Kennedy: It was always like this?
Michael Kennedy: I think so.
Michael Kennedy: You know, the beginning,
Michael Kennedy: I don't know.
Michael Kennedy: But for a long time,
Michael Kennedy: it's been like that.
Michael Kennedy: But it used to be lower scale,
Michael Kennedy: and it goes up.
Michael Kennedy: Because my daughter watched him a lot for a while.
Michael Kennedy: Not so much anymore,
Michael Kennedy: but for a while.
Michael Kennedy: And so it would kind of be on in the background,
Michael Kennedy: while I'm on the couch or whatever, you know?
Brian Okken: Weird.
Brian Okken: Okay,
Brian Okken: whatever.
Brian Okken: Yeah.
Michael Kennedy: But this is his new amazing one.
Michael Kennedy: Trap a thousand vibe coders in a room without Claude.
Michael Kennedy: Ask them to do things.
Michael Kennedy: Let's go.
Michael Kennedy: Yeah,
Michael Kennedy: that's funny.
Michael Kennedy: It is.
Michael Kennedy: All right.
Michael Kennedy: Thanks for the show, Brian.
Michael Kennedy: Thanks for everyone for listening.
Michael Kennedy: All right,
Michael Kennedy: bye.
Michael Kennedy: Bye.