WEBVTT 00:00:00.100 --> 00:00:00.400 Hello, 00:00:00.690 --> 00:00:05.380 and welcome to Python Bytes, where we deliver Python news and headlines directly to your earbuds. 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:08.580 This is episode 499, 00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:10.220 recorded Monday, 00:00:10.540 --> 00:00:11.160 October 5th, 00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:11.780 2026. 00:00:12.280 --> 00:00:13.240 I'm Calvin Hendryx-Parker. 00:00:13.490 --> 00:00:14.420 And I'm Michael Kennedy. 00:00:14.860 --> 00:00:15.660 Glad to have you, Michael. 00:00:16.740 --> 00:00:19.640 Please support this show and all the sponsors. 00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:21.760 Make sure you support our work. 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:24.580 Michael and I are doing lots of interesting things out in the community. 00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:28.220 So support the courses at talkpython.fm. 00:00:28.350 --> 00:00:29.220 So head over there. 00:00:29.520 --> 00:00:30.880 There's some really interesting new stuff, 00:00:31.140 --> 00:00:31.880 some Rust stuff, 00:00:32.099 --> 00:00:33.240 some web stuff. 00:00:33.660 --> 00:00:34.780 There's all kinds of data stuff. 00:00:34.980 --> 00:00:42.220 So check out Michael's courses online at talkpython.fm and check out the consulting from Six Feet Up. 00:00:42.360 --> 00:00:45.860 So I am co-founder and CTO of Six Feet Up. 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:48.560 We are a Python AI shop who loves solving hard problems. 00:00:48.980 --> 00:00:52.480 So if you've got a hard problem and you'd love to talk about it, I'd love to talk to you about it. 00:00:52.720 --> 00:00:54.760 So let's move right along with connecting with us. 00:00:54.900 --> 00:00:57.560 you can find Michael and myself on Mastodon, 00:00:58.020 --> 00:00:58.900 Bluesky X, 00:00:59.200 --> 00:00:59.740 and LinkedIn. 00:01:00.400 --> 00:01:01.840 And the show is on Mastodon, 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.500 Bluesky, and X. 00:01:02.740 --> 00:01:05.420 So check us out over there at Python Bytes. 00:01:05.740 --> 00:01:08.580 Join us on YouTube for pythonbytes.fm 00:01:08.770 --> 00:01:12.600 slash live to be part of the audience. You can actually participate live, ask questions. We may 00:01:12.780 --> 00:01:15.520 put them on the air and answer them in real time. 00:01:16.040 --> 00:01:17.340 Usually it's Tuesdays at 7 a.m. 00:01:17.540 --> 00:01:17.660 Pacific. 00:01:18.520 --> 00:01:19.840 Older versions are available there too. 00:01:20.150 --> 00:01:20.500 And finally, 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:23.080 if you want an artisanal handcrafted 00:01:23.220 --> 00:01:28.400 digest of every week's episode show notes and email form put your email in the friends of the 00:01:28.520 --> 00:01:33.160 show and we will give you a beautiful email summary actually includes lots of little extras 00:01:33.190 --> 00:01:37.300 I kind of like that summary very meta but I like the meta-ness of it and we'll never share your 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:42.980 email address so it's safe with Michael and I all right Michael uh I've got questions so many 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.280 questions question so many question marks so many so many question marks hey before we jump into 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.480 the questions I just want to say I just came from a place with large buildings outside my hotel window 00:01:51.500 --> 00:01:54.040 and you have large buildings outside your hotel window. 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:54.540 I do. 00:01:54.720 --> 00:01:55.540 I'm in New York City today. 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.260 That's awesome. 00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:56.520 Where were you, 00:01:56.740 --> 00:01:56.820 Michael? 00:01:57.300 --> 00:01:58.460 I was in San Francisco. 00:01:58.600 --> 00:02:00.700 I want to give a downtown San Francisco. 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:02.240 I'm going to give a shout out to PiBay. 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.580 That conference just happened two days ago 00:02:04.940 --> 00:02:05.960 and was tons of fun. 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:07.900 And all the sessions were recorded. 00:02:08.020 --> 00:02:08.759 So they're going to be up. 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:10.179 And I think it'll be really fun for everyone. 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:12.840 We'll give the videos a shout out when they're up. 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:13.860 So that was really nice. 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:14.460 Nice. 00:02:14.940 --> 00:02:17.340 PiBay's on my bucket list of conferences to attend. 00:02:17.480 --> 00:02:17.940 I've never been. 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:18.360 Well, 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:19.560 it was fun, I can tell you. 00:02:19.720 --> 00:02:19.900 Nice. 00:02:20.100 --> 00:02:20.780 But you have questions. 00:02:21.100 --> 00:02:26.620 you say questions there are question marks there questions there are questions now this topic is 00:02:26.740 --> 00:02:33.820 really interesting to me so there was a PEP 505 is this yeah 505 now often you'll hear this referred 00:02:33.820 --> 00:02:38.940 to as the idea is i'm dealing with variables that have no values and so you'll get like attribute 00:02:39.320 --> 00:02:43.840 errors because none type doesn't support whatever you're trying to do you know what i mean and so 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:48.239 you got to check right is this thing not none then i can do thing with it right often these are referred 00:02:48.260 --> 00:02:55.040 to as null coalescing operators because like most programming languages call nothing for pointers 00:02:55.320 --> 00:03:00.760 null but by then we call it none so we have none coalescing operators so this was a proposal from 00:03:00.790 --> 00:03:08.940 10 years ago and it's revived as an idea for 3.16 by mark muller with sponsor none other than guido 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:15.119 van rossom and the idea is let's go back to 505 from 10 years ago and just do like a really simple 00:03:15.140 --> 00:03:15.320 bit. 00:03:15.760 --> 00:03:17.160 Now I don't just have questions. 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:18.640 I got, 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:19.960 I got ideas. 00:03:20.160 --> 00:03:20.700 I have opinions. 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:21.560 So, 00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:22.560 but let's, 00:03:22.920 --> 00:03:24.460 let's go with what it is first before I, 00:03:24.780 --> 00:03:24.940 I, 00:03:25.180 --> 00:03:25.280 um, 00:03:25.580 --> 00:03:27.580 there was a lot of ideas in 505, 10 years ago 00:03:27.920 --> 00:03:28.360 for this one. 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:29.980 It's very short and simple. 00:03:30.180 --> 00:03:30.800 There's two things, 00:03:31.060 --> 00:03:32.540 question mark, question mark is the 00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:32.960 operator. 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:34.460 Hence the comment, 00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:38.220 the opening transition and question mark, question mark equal. 00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.120 So you got to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:41.360 Here it is. 00:03:41.590 --> 00:03:42.839 It comes down to something 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:44.680 than like this line age. 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:46.140 If you're going to get a user, 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:48.000 maybe you got the user from a database. 00:03:48.740 --> 00:03:49.980 This example is bad. 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:51.040 Example in the, 00:03:51.340 --> 00:03:54.340 in the thing is not good because that's what is the type safety 00:03:54.480 --> 00:03:55.020 say about this? 00:03:55.960 --> 00:03:56.580 Can it be none? 00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:58.100 I have a user colon user, 00:03:58.460 --> 00:03:59.240 like lowercase user, 00:03:59.500 --> 00:03:59.980 uppercase user. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:02.580 Python's type system says if something could ever, 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:04.140 ever possibly be none, 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:06.280 it must be marked as optional or, 00:04:06.580 --> 00:04:06.800 you know, 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:07.660 type pipe, 00:04:07.880 --> 00:04:08.500 none, if you prefer 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:10.200 the union variant of that. 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:11.400 I don't like it, but you know what? 00:04:11.500 --> 00:04:12.380 I also have opinions there. 00:04:12.620 --> 00:04:16.340 So basically the way this thing is typed, it's literally not necessarily to check 00:04:16.660 --> 00:04:17.940 necessarily to use a null check, 00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:21.380 because if the type system is cohesive and you're 00:04:21.380 --> 00:04:22.780 running things like T Y or whatever, 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:24.500 and they pass, then you would be good. 00:04:24.660 --> 00:04:26.180 But the example is what it is. 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:27.420 And so, so we take a user, 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:29.100 but the user might be null or none, 00:04:29.390 --> 00:04:29.780 even though it 00:04:30.100 --> 00:04:30.800 says it can't be none. 00:04:31.090 --> 00:04:31.180 Um, 00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:32.460 it says, 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:33.760 well, we're going to need to check. 00:04:34.090 --> 00:04:36.440 You might need to write if I'm up here, 00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:37.300 if you know, 00:04:37.660 --> 00:04:39.920 the user is itself not none, 00:04:40.340 --> 00:04:40.700 then, 00:04:41.150 --> 00:04:41.620 oh, wait, sorry. 00:04:41.780 --> 00:04:42.340 This is actually, 00:04:42.500 --> 00:04:43.180 so this is different. 00:04:43.340 --> 00:04:44.180 So no, this is still fine. 00:04:44.240 --> 00:04:45.640 It says if user.age, 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:47.360 trying to get the age from the user. 00:04:47.610 --> 00:04:51.920 So instead of saying if user is not none, if user.age is not none, 00:04:52.220 --> 00:04:53.500 well, just user.age is not none. 00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:55.220 Done that so many times in my life. 00:04:55.270 --> 00:04:55.380 Other, 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.180 yes, I know. 00:04:57.050 --> 00:04:57.140 Other, 00:04:57.320 --> 00:04:57.760 otherwise, 00:04:58.320 --> 00:05:01.020 if I got a user and it has no age set, 00:05:01.580 --> 00:05:04.720 then instead of saying I have an if statement where I set the value, 00:05:05.070 --> 00:05:06.580 I can say question mark, 00:05:07.010 --> 00:05:07.380 question mark, 00:05:07.940 --> 00:05:08.720 unknown age. 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:09.200 Okay. 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:10.780 I'm not, I'm not against this. 00:05:10.900 --> 00:05:12.600 my opinions are not saying this is bad. 00:05:12.900 --> 00:05:14.920 It doesn't seem to buy me very much, 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:15.440 right? 00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:18.640 I mean, you could say user.age 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:20.960 if user.age is, 00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.680 you know, 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:23.680 else unknown or whatever. 00:05:23.940 --> 00:05:24.320 Like it's, 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:25.940 you can still kind of one line it 00:05:26.140 --> 00:05:27.400 in not much more effort. 00:05:27.900 --> 00:05:30.980 You don't, as a ternary sort of expression or something. 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:32.660 Yeah, I was thinking like ternary 00:05:32.760 --> 00:05:33.400 would be appropriate. 00:05:33.880 --> 00:05:34.040 Yeah, 00:05:34.260 --> 00:05:35.280 that's how you would have done it before 00:05:35.460 --> 00:05:36.260 if you wanted one line. 00:05:36.700 --> 00:05:36.780 But, 00:05:36.960 --> 00:05:37.440 you know, it's fine. 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:38.760 I think it's, I think it's okay. 00:05:39.320 --> 00:05:41.720 Now, if we go back to 505 from 10 years ago, 00:05:41.920 --> 00:05:43.680 there's other things as well, 00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:45.480 like question mark dot. 00:05:45.670 --> 00:05:49.260 And now this one I think is actually, if they're going to pick one thing in the 00:05:49.460 --> 00:05:50.500 language and use, and like, 00:05:50.780 --> 00:05:53.000 so we're going to add a little bit of null or none 00:05:53.190 --> 00:05:53.600 help here. 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:56.140 This one is the one that makes such a difference. 00:05:56.630 --> 00:05:58.400 So in the show notes, I put a little example, 00:05:58.890 --> 00:05:58.980 um, 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:01.340 down here where you'd have 00:06:01.350 --> 00:06:03.520 to do it the old way or you have to do it the new way. 00:06:03.980 --> 00:06:07.140 And this little example here lost my comments, but the comments are in the 00:06:07.260 --> 00:06:07.440 show notes. 00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:09.380 So I go to the database I get a user, 00:06:09.760 --> 00:06:11.320 I may or may not be logged in. 00:06:11.440 --> 00:06:11.940 So this could be, 00:06:12.340 --> 00:06:14.400 could be a user object or it could be none right. 00:06:14.780 --> 00:06:15.480 And I have a city, 00:06:15.900 --> 00:06:17.260 I want to set the city to a value. 00:06:17.380 --> 00:06:19.340 But if I don't set it to a value, I want the city to be none. 00:06:19.460 --> 00:06:19.920 So I have to say, 00:06:20.080 --> 00:06:21.120 if user is not none, 00:06:21.580 --> 00:06:23.920 then I can run the test if user.address 00:06:24.260 --> 00:06:24.940 is not none, 00:06:25.400 --> 00:06:26.580 then I can run the test. 00:06:27.060 --> 00:06:31.500 If user.address.city is not none, then say it equals user.address.city and I 00:06:31.580 --> 00:06:32.580 mean like this, 00:06:33.020 --> 00:06:33.680 this is a lot. 00:06:33.940 --> 00:06:34.100 Yeah. 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:37.320 What was in the original one and what I wish was here, 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:39.160 if they could add one more thing, 00:06:39.270 --> 00:06:42.260 just one little bit would be this one line here. 00:06:42.730 --> 00:06:46.660 City equals user question mark dot address question mark dot city. 00:06:46.870 --> 00:06:48.180 I can see why this is controversial. 00:06:48.700 --> 00:06:51.060 Is it, you have opinions now? 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:55.440 So the way this works, the way this works in other languages is when you, 00:06:55.660 --> 00:06:56.000 instead of saying 00:06:56.340 --> 00:06:58.820 dot for attribute access or function calls or whatever, 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:00.440 you say question mark dot. 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:06.260 And if the thing that you're trying to do attribute access on itself is none, 00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:07.920 so like user question mark dot. 00:07:08.030 --> 00:07:09.040 So if user is none, 00:07:09.250 --> 00:07:11.060 then you just short circuit and return none. 00:07:11.340 --> 00:07:12.400 If user is not none, 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:13.680 but user address is none, 00:07:13.890 --> 00:07:15.820 you short circuit that and you return none. 00:07:16.080 --> 00:07:17.420 Otherwise, you just give the value of city, 00:07:17.710 --> 00:07:18.120 none or not. 00:07:18.340 --> 00:07:19.380 A little opaque for me. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:20.400 A little. 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:20.820 Okay. 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:21.320 Yeah. 00:07:21.580 --> 00:07:25.560 I mean, I agree that the verboseness of the example given there 00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:28.880 is a lot of what feels like boilerplate to get the same thing done. 00:07:29.900 --> 00:07:33.100 So I can understand why they didn't go all the way for this version of this index. 00:07:33.740 --> 00:07:34.100 Yes. 00:07:34.310 --> 00:07:35.200 So to be... 00:07:35.200 --> 00:07:37.120 I mean, if you thought the walrus was contentious. 00:07:37.210 --> 00:07:37.760 I know, it's true. 00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:39.760 The walrus has left scars. 00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:40.800 But here's the thing. 00:07:41.080 --> 00:07:45.740 So how much does this, I don't know, how much does this new addition here help, 00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:46.200 right? 00:07:46.280 --> 00:07:47.580 This user.age? 00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:49.320 ?unknown. 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:50.700 You know, how do you solve problems? 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.860 It doesn't really solve problems like that one. 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.180 It just compresses ternary expressions, 00:07:56.850 --> 00:07:56.960 right? 00:07:57.060 --> 00:07:59.940 it doesn't actually alleviate the none checking. 00:08:00.520 --> 00:08:03.080 Like if you wanted to check is user none or age none. 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:03.640 Yeah, 00:08:03.860 --> 00:08:05.380 but maybe I don't I don't see. 00:08:05.880 --> 00:08:07.180 Yeah, I don't see any way to 00:08:07.400 --> 00:08:10.140 this feels cleaner for the ternary version of that. 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:10.560 Yeah, 00:08:10.760 --> 00:08:15.040 yeah, let's see. We got some again, this is this is personal opinions. I think both of us are 00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:19.500 absolutely I'm okay without it. But if you're gonna add no operator, 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:21.680 like no operations to the language, 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:27.520 The biggest one is the if this is not, if this is like just the sawtooth of four things, 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:28.120 ifs. 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.580 Kiva out there says, when I went from C# to Python, I really, 00:08:31.760 --> 00:08:32.860 really missed the null 00:08:33.099 --> 00:08:34.800 coalescing operators more than anything else, 00:08:35.060 --> 00:08:36.280 even the type system. 00:08:36.620 --> 00:08:36.840 Yeah. 00:08:37.099 --> 00:08:37.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:08:38.599 --> 00:08:41.020 But like you just mentioned with the sawtoothing, 00:08:41.300 --> 00:08:43.659 the flat is better than nested Python, 00:08:44.020 --> 00:08:44.380 you 00:08:44.400 --> 00:08:44.480 know, 00:08:44.800 --> 00:08:45.140 to tenant. 00:08:45.920 --> 00:08:47.160 Really, I believe in that one. 00:08:47.160 --> 00:08:49.760 And that breaks it when you go that deep like that. 00:08:50.020 --> 00:08:50.180 Yeah. 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:51.420 Yeah. So you would, I mean, 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:52.300 what would I do? All right. 00:08:52.500 --> 00:08:53.820 We're in the danger of going too deep. 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:55.840 So what I would do is I would use for this, 00:08:56.100 --> 00:08:56.180 this, 00:08:56.500 --> 00:08:57.580 like the way it has to work now, 00:08:57.660 --> 00:08:59.700 not Michael's beaver dream of null checking. 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.020 You've got to use what are called guarding clauses, 00:09:02.220 --> 00:09:02.460 right? You say, 00:09:02.640 --> 00:09:03.760 if user is none, 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:04.560 return, 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:07.260 return something like none or whatever. 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:08.180 And then if 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:09.700 user.address is none, 00:09:10.060 --> 00:09:10.980 return something else. 00:09:11.340 --> 00:09:13.120 And then finally you can get the city and you know, 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.080 you can flatten it with the right patterns. 00:09:15.520 --> 00:09:17.259 That's the Vincent of Python pattern I would 00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:17.640 have used. 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:18.060 Yeah. 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:19.300 All right. That's enough for this. 00:09:19.520 --> 00:09:19.640 People, 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:21.520 this is a proposal, 00:09:21.880 --> 00:09:23.520 a draft for 3.6. 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.940 We have had opinions and we've shared them and now you can have yours. 00:09:27.660 --> 00:09:28.440 Over to you, Calvin. 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:29.620 Yep. 00:09:29.860 --> 00:09:30.000 Well, 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:33.360 speaking of language features and new versions that are out. 00:09:33.780 --> 00:09:35.080 So we've been talking 00:09:35.180 --> 00:09:38.880 about Python 3.15 for at least the last month of episodes, 00:09:39.340 --> 00:09:41.380 hoping it would have been out October 1st, 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:42.440 but that got moved. 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:48.380 So we actually have got Python 315 RC3 that came out this week. So if you are 00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:48.980 keeping track, 00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:53.960 you should probably notice that there's not been a formal release, but it will 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:54.280 be coming. 00:09:54.860 --> 00:09:58.300 I believe they're saying final is scheduled here for the ninth. 00:09:58.700 --> 00:09:59.540 So before the next 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:03.500 episode, we will have Python 315 that is out. 00:10:03.900 --> 00:10:07.879 The showstopper roadblock that was going on in there 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:13.840 was basically some support or fix for what was lazy import release blockers. 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:15.340 So the kind of one 00:10:15.340 --> 00:10:18.240 of the really nice new features of Python 3.15 that you probably should check out. 00:10:18.390 --> 00:10:18.720 And if you 00:10:18.770 --> 00:10:22.760 wanted to go use what's newt to do a dungeon crawler and explore those features. 00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:24.040 But the 00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:27.840 lazy imports had a last minute bug. 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:32.380 So they want to make sure they get the fixes tested properly. 00:10:32.980 --> 00:10:33.840 So if you aren't familiar again, 00:10:34.020 --> 00:10:37.560 lazy imports means that you can say lazy import from 00:10:37.700 --> 00:10:38.440 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:10:38.820 --> 00:10:41.660 And when you go to use it is actually when it'll import 00:10:41.780 --> 00:10:42.640 at that point in time. 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:44.560 So you could actually have imports at the top 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:46.580 that actually never get imported based on conditions, 00:10:47.100 --> 00:10:50.080 which might actually be preferable given your stance 00:10:50.260 --> 00:10:53.020 on memory usage or loading things for security reasons 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.120 or lots of other things that could be basically 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:56.320 be wrapped into that. 00:10:56.620 --> 00:10:58.660 I'm very excited about the lazy imports. 00:10:58.720 --> 00:10:58.900 Yeah, 00:10:59.340 --> 00:10:59.800 I am too. 00:11:00.040 --> 00:11:04.960 So I think the lazy imports and then the frozendicts that we get now as well. 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.280 I think that's the other major one that was going in there. 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.400 But there's no major ABI changes for this RC. 00:11:11.140 --> 00:11:18.620 It's just making sure dotting the I's and crossing the T's and making sure that the version 3.15 is very, very solid. 00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:21.160 So that's part of the news I wanted to cover on this one. 00:11:21.800 --> 00:11:29.400 The other piece that I wanted to cover was that on October 1st, they also released the last version of 3.10. 00:11:29.800 --> 00:11:30.600 So if you see right here, 00:11:30.860 --> 00:11:31.480 Python 3.10, 00:11:32.060 --> 00:11:32.440 .22, 00:11:32.800 --> 00:11:33.100 11, 00:11:33.340 --> 00:11:33.900 da, da, da, da, da, 00:11:34.180 --> 00:11:36.920 all the minor releases there for 10 through 14 00:11:37.300 --> 00:11:37.960 are now available. 00:11:38.400 --> 00:11:40.780 The most important piece I think of this release 00:11:41.060 --> 00:11:43.640 that I wanted to bring it up during this segment 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.840 was there'll be no more releases of Python 3.10. 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.280 This is the EOL final end of line. 00:11:50.920 --> 00:11:53.400 There'll be no more security releases for 3.10. 00:11:53.540 --> 00:11:55.740 So if you've got code in production that is running 3.10, 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:56.820 you've been warned, 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.240 you've been told probably many, many, many, many times, 00:11:59.640 --> 00:12:01.460 along the way that this is coming, 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:03.580 but it's become, we're here. 00:12:03.740 --> 00:12:04.840 So for example, 00:12:05.060 --> 00:12:05.480 there was 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.360 nine common security fixes in this October 1st release. 00:12:08.540 --> 00:12:09.960 There was things like SSL validation, 00:12:10.780 --> 00:12:12.140 that tar file and zip file handling, 00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:14.240 URL lib credentials. 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:16.140 Those all sound pretty important. 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.900 And those are the kinds of things you're going to want to have fixes for inside your code, 00:12:20.260 --> 00:12:21.640 especially given the state of credentials. 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:27.380 AI and all the things that are kind of coming out 00:12:27.400 --> 00:12:28.000 after it. 00:12:28.300 --> 00:12:30.380 So it's been five years. It's time-free to upgrade. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:31.980 There's going to be no more 3.10. 00:12:32.300 --> 00:12:36.340 That's wild because I'll tell you that 3.10 sounds pretty modern to me. 00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:37.480 Same for me. 00:12:37.700 --> 00:12:41.020 I mean, I think we are of an age and have been in the Python community long enough 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.940 that five years passes before your eyes, before you know it. 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.540 But 3.15 is about to become very much 00:12:46.540 --> 00:12:48.240 a reality. 3.14 is very stable. 00:12:48.780 --> 00:12:51.919 3.11 has all the things you probably want and probably is most 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:52.940 likely a drop in. 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:55.560 These releases of Python, 00:12:55.920 --> 00:12:58.380 I don't believe there's been too many backward 00:12:58.560 --> 00:13:01.940 compatible breaking changes in there. So there's not really much of a reason not to. 00:13:02.250 --> 00:13:02.700 If you've got 00:13:02.770 --> 00:13:08.000 great test suites and you can go and do a Nox style test against all of them, find out which 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:12.540 one doesn't break for you quickly through your CI pipeline and get your code updated for the latest 00:13:12.680 --> 00:13:13.180 versions of Python. 00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:14.580 Now that said, 00:13:14.750 --> 00:13:17.820 Python 3.11 will get security fixes through October of 2027. 00:13:18.030 --> 00:13:18.379 So you 00:13:18.300 --> 00:13:21.080 got another year on 11 and another year after that for 12. 00:13:21.660 --> 00:13:23.600 But why not just go to the 315? 00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:24.000 It'll be 00:13:24.010 --> 00:13:24.680 out later this week. 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:26.820 If you're already doing the work, 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.900 you might as well get yourself another five 00:13:30.060 --> 00:13:33.280 year lease on this work. 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:34.080 Run Knox, 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:38.020 run all of them. Run all of them. See if they all pass or if there's 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:40.820 issues and either fix or just go back to the, you know, 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:41.980 313 or whatever that works. 00:13:42.130 --> 00:13:42.240 Yeah. 00:13:42.650 --> 00:13:43.000 I just, 00:13:43.310 --> 00:13:47.739 again, I hate, I put this one here because I really do not want to see anyone be a headline 00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:51.000 on Hacker News or any other major news outlet, 00:13:51.740 --> 00:13:54.360 I've got an extra that's kind of related to this, 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:56.180 that you shouldn't, don't be a victim. 00:13:57.040 --> 00:13:57.520 Keep up to date. 00:13:57.860 --> 00:14:00.440 Python is very, the Python community is very good 00:14:00.640 --> 00:14:01.400 about compatibility, 00:14:01.880 --> 00:14:02.140 updating, 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:03.620 having updating notes. 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:08.740 We learned a lot of lessons in the two to three history of Python. 00:14:08.930 --> 00:14:11.620 So go out there and get yourself upgraded. 00:14:12.040 --> 00:14:12.340 But Michael, 00:14:12.520 --> 00:14:13.360 that's what I got for. 00:14:13.510 --> 00:14:16.639 One of those lessons was waiting for a very long time 00:14:16.660 --> 00:14:18.000 for the world to sort itself out. 00:14:18.090 --> 00:14:19.740 It doesn't necessarily treat you that well. 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:20.420 Yeah, 00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:21.220 that's true. 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.660 Maybe stay on top of things as they're changing 00:14:23.930 --> 00:14:25.240 rather than like waiting eight years to go, 00:14:25.430 --> 00:14:26.240 oh gosh, we got to upgrade. 00:14:27.400 --> 00:14:28.600 Like you should have a shield. 00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:30.620 Let me just put up like a shield sort of thing. 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:32.360 Is there a shield people could use? 00:14:32.640 --> 00:14:34.500 There is a shield people can use 00:14:34.610 --> 00:14:35.920 and I've got details for you. 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:39.200 So I've been experimenting with ideas, 00:14:39.780 --> 00:14:42.300 some crazy ideas and I'm not ready to share with you. 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:45.180 Well, I might share with you privately, of course, Calvin, 00:14:45.280 --> 00:14:49.480 But I'm not ready to share with you, dear listeners as a broad world until I have more info on it. 00:14:49.630 --> 00:14:51.060 But it's pretty wild. 00:14:51.110 --> 00:14:57.280 So I've been doing a lot of testing on like different database type systems and so on a couple of the websites. 00:14:57.900 --> 00:15:03.500 And I have this place where I write basically an analytics entry. 00:15:03.820 --> 00:15:06.880 You know, someone's downloaded this or they watched a video or something like that. 00:15:07.010 --> 00:15:09.240 And then I increment it somewhere else because, 00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:10.960 you know, 50 million records, 00:15:11.270 --> 00:15:12.440 you don't want that to be operational. 00:15:12.770 --> 00:15:14.100 Like who has done this thing? 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:17.780 You might want it like a little more concise or how many people downloaded 00:15:17.830 --> 00:15:18.460 that thing or whatever. 00:15:18.920 --> 00:15:22.640 So it writes it once to this kind of summary table that the websites use. 00:15:22.760 --> 00:15:24.680 And then it writes this, this analytics one. 00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:24.920 Well, 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:26.920 it turned out that out of many, 00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:27.520 many millions, 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.680 there was 1,200 missing 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:32.580 entries, where, where did they go? 00:15:32.640 --> 00:15:33.600 It says right here. 00:15:33.680 --> 00:15:34.780 And then it says right there. 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:35.200 Well, 00:15:35.380 --> 00:15:39.920 these came into existence once I switched to an async web framework 00:15:40.180 --> 00:15:40.520 court, 00:15:40.760 --> 00:15:41.720 but it could be FastAPI. 00:15:41.870 --> 00:15:42.520 It could be Litestar. 00:15:42.620 --> 00:15:46.020 It's not anything necessarily specific with court, not necessarily. 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:52.580 So what happens is with court, if somebody makes a request and the request is in flight 00:15:52.670 --> 00:15:56.420 and they decide they're not doing that anymore, or they're going to cancel that, or they're 00:15:56.420 --> 00:15:57.020 going to go somewhere else, 00:15:57.420 --> 00:15:59.540 court itself does a request.cancel. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:01.800 So it says, oh, did somebody disconnect? 00:16:02.130 --> 00:16:05.400 Like here's the LF literally says disconnected, 00:16:05.860 --> 00:16:06.760 request body disconnect. 00:16:06.850 --> 00:16:11.780 And the last thing is request task.cancel in the court ASCII.py file. 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:20.560 Well, what happens is if you're writing one event and you're awaiting it and you're writing another event and you're awaiting it, if this first one has not, 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:23.160 has finished, but it hasn't quite gotten done, 00:16:23.380 --> 00:16:24.560 it hasn't finished awaiting. 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:25.120 Well, 00:16:25.280 --> 00:16:29.640 this thing just raises a task canceled exception and that one doesn't run. 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:31.300 Or maybe this one's starting, 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:33.740 the second one is starting to do a database negotiation. 00:16:34.160 --> 00:16:34.520 Like, hey, 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:36.800 give me something on the connection pool and I'm going to start talking. 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:37.640 I'm out. 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:40.880 And so these don't have to happen atomically. 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:41.360 Right. 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:43.660 So there's different things you can do to do that. 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.480 Obviously you could use a transaction, 00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:47.000 but then you would lose the first one, 00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:49.260 which maybe like a request did come in. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:50.460 Maybe you want to save them both, right? 00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:51.400 So what are you going to do? 00:16:51.430 --> 00:16:53.880 You can bust out the asyncio dot shield and this, 00:16:54.040 --> 00:16:55.220 I've done a lot of asyncio stuff. 00:16:55.310 --> 00:16:56.980 And this is surprising to me. 00:16:57.380 --> 00:17:01.780 So what you can actually do is with this asyncio shield, 00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:04.819 it basically says this sub, 00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:06.339 this async subroutine. 00:17:06.890 --> 00:17:07.939 I do not want it. 00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:12.920 Even if the outer task gets canceled, I want this to either not run or completely run, 00:17:13.120 --> 00:17:13.240 right? 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.459 So I can do like record download. 00:17:15.579 --> 00:17:16.560 I can say await. 00:17:16.860 --> 00:17:17.400 Instead of wait, 00:17:17.560 --> 00:17:18.180 just the task, 00:17:18.360 --> 00:17:22.240 I await asyncio shielding the task and you get consistent. 00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:22.540 Yeah, 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.839 you get more intentional control over the specific use case because that can happen 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:27.160 in your, 00:17:27.380 --> 00:17:28.920 like you said, your left scratch in your head. 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:29.460 Why? 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:30.440 It doesn't make any sense. 00:17:30.660 --> 00:17:32.360 Like it's either running or it's not running. 00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:32.500 Well, 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.060 apparently the web framework unwinds it partway through, 00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:36.600 which is reasonable so that 00:17:36.620 --> 00:17:38.640 they can go handle requests that are not disconnected. 00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:39.580 I mean, it's more than reasonable. 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:40.600 It cleans up after itself 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:42.100 'cause it allows you then to perform 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.820 other cleanup operations that may have happened 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:44.420 along the way too. 00:17:44.820 --> 00:17:45.020 Yeah, 00:17:45.280 --> 00:17:45.400 exactly. 00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:47.940 So this is not a third party thing. 00:17:48.100 --> 00:17:50.340 This is just built into the asyncio module. 00:17:50.780 --> 00:17:53.140 But to me, this was a mystery until I learned about it. 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:54.740 Yeah, I've never explored this before. 00:17:55.060 --> 00:17:55.540 This is really cool. 00:17:55.800 --> 00:17:56.320 Yeah, yeah. 00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:58.780 And the other thing that's really noteworthy here 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.580 is you need to make sure that you have something 00:18:01.980 --> 00:18:03.800 holding onto the task, 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:04.260 right? 00:18:04.260 --> 00:18:06.580 So here you can see the task is created 00:18:06.600 --> 00:18:08.480 And then it adds it to the pending tasks. 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:13.540 Because I remember where I wrote about this. 00:18:13.940 --> 00:18:14.660 Let's see. 00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:15.620 Fire and forget. 00:18:16.120 --> 00:18:16.580 Not ever, never. 00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:19.700 So both I wrote about this and Will McGugan wrote about this. 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:25.740 But it turns out that if you start a task and you don't hold on to a reference to it, 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.260 the asyncio event loop uses weak references. 00:18:30.660 --> 00:18:33.960 So it's very likely that once you create a task and start it, 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.040 If you don't hang on to it, 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:37.600 there might be a garbage collection or some sort of 00:18:37.820 --> 00:18:40.040 reference kind of thing that just drops it halfway through. 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.020 So kind of got to keep this in mind plus that. 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:44.620 So it's a little, 00:18:44.820 --> 00:18:45.920 not super obvious. 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:48.060 Like, so that's what this pending task thing is about. 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:48.340 Anyway, 00:18:48.760 --> 00:18:50.060 it doesn't solve all your problems. 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:52.180 Like you've got to keep a reference to the task. 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:53.780 Errors go nowhere by default, 00:18:54.020 --> 00:18:55.980 because now you've, you basically said the 00:18:56.100 --> 00:18:57.940 outer thing that called it, I don't want it to see that anymore. 00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.660 Don't worry about it. 00:18:58.900 --> 00:18:59.960 Doesn't survive shut down. 00:19:00.300 --> 00:19:02.440 If something hangs while you told it, it can't cancel. 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:07.260 so it's not going to cancel if you keep going and um it'll make him both finish but it's not 00:19:07.460 --> 00:19:11.840 necessarily atomic right if there's an exception that's different than just avoiding cancellation 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:17.280 so anyway i feel like you solved one one interesting edge case you've only solved one 00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:23.320 interesting edge case but potentially introduced like six more in the traps and current traps and 00:19:23.320 --> 00:19:27.760 be careful i'm tired of it i don't want to do any more let's just go play games you want to play 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.560 games yeah okay let's play some games this is a so this is not a new framework necessarily but 00:19:33.560 --> 00:19:38.800 it's been getting a lot of uh exposure recently on the interwebs and so it's called pixel it is a 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:46.320 retro game engine for python it's a free mit licensed game engine that you use python to build 00:19:46.840 --> 00:19:54.480 games in uh what kind of attracted to me is i am obviously a fan of the retro looking game aesthetic 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:59.860 So it's kind of like how Twitter used to deliberately limit you to 140 characters. 00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:03.500 This deliberately limits you to 16 colors and four sound channels. 00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:10.420 So you are basically operating in the world of classic game consoles like the NES and so on. 00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:12.200 So it keeps the scope small. 00:20:12.620 --> 00:20:17.020 And one of their goals was to make the games finishable as a programmer, 00:20:17.220 --> 00:20:18.260 not as the player, 00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:20.700 but as the person building the game. 00:20:20.820 --> 00:20:25.440 So you're not getting, you don't get into me the traps of all the features and all the 3D and all the other kind of things. 00:20:26.540 --> 00:20:27.740 It's been in development since 2018. 00:20:28.080 --> 00:20:31.220 It's got 18,000 GitHub stars on there. 00:20:31.660 --> 00:20:34.040 It has built-in editors for the pixel art, 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:35.500 which is also something I, 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:37.280 is near and dear to my heart, 00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:40.360 which is like the art and the aesthetic behind the game. 00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:42.580 So you can build art and the tile maps. 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.760 It's got editors for the sound and the music. 00:20:46.020 --> 00:20:47.100 So you can make graphics, 00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:47.640 audio, 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.900 and the game logic in one place. 00:20:50.040 --> 00:20:50.680 So again, 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.100 not to get distracted by going to five other tools to get something done. 00:20:54.540 --> 00:20:58.660 That's a great way to do all that stuff in one tight place for that. 00:20:59.020 --> 00:21:03.460 What's awesome is that actually the engine behind the scenes is implemented in Rust. 00:21:03.590 --> 00:21:05.100 And so we've been hearing a lot about Rust lately. 00:21:05.500 --> 00:21:07.220 It gets compiled into WebAssembly, 00:21:07.620 --> 00:21:10.320 which you can launch the games locally on your computer, 00:21:10.580 --> 00:21:14.460 compiles down into a locally executable Rust binary. 00:21:15.020 --> 00:21:17.520 But you can also play the games on your web browser. 00:21:17.900 --> 00:21:23.200 So it uses WebAssembly to deploy these or make them deployable into your web browser. 00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:29.500 So the CodeMaker has a browser playground with the code editor and all the tools built into it. 00:21:29.780 --> 00:21:32.000 You can load programs from local files, 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:33.900 GitHub Gists or URLs. 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:36.800 Actually, I'll show you a quick demo of this right here. 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:37.520 So in the showcase, 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.080 you can just run uvx pixel copy examples, 00:21:42.540 --> 00:21:45.540 and it will pull these examples to your local computer where you can run them. 00:21:45.860 --> 00:21:47.900 or you can just go into the docs over here 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:48.980 and they've got the pixel showcase 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.140 where these are the exact same examples 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:54.160 from that copy examples I was running locally on my machine. 00:21:54.860 --> 00:21:55.540 These will run here. 00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:56.420 I'm going to run one. 00:21:56.740 --> 00:21:57.700 I'll run the platformer. 00:21:57.700 --> 00:21:58.160 It's kind of fun. 00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.580 This is WebAssembly. 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:02.960 This Python code compiled to run in my browser. 00:22:03.340 --> 00:22:04.160 And so you can see here, 00:22:04.580 --> 00:22:05.720 it's got sound a whole bit. 00:22:05.800 --> 00:22:07.140 You can't obviously hear the sound, 00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:08.500 I think because I didn't share it over there. 00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:09.800 That's so cool. 00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:10.240 Boom, 00:22:10.540 --> 00:22:11.000 there you die. 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:12.780 So it's fun. 00:22:13.100 --> 00:22:13.860 You know what we got to do? 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.540 Did you ever play the game Lemming? 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:16.120 Yes. 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:17.200 Oh my God. 00:22:17.420 --> 00:22:19.500 That's one of the best games of the genre in my opinion. 00:22:20.100 --> 00:22:21.200 And it has to come back. 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:21.660 Yeah. 00:22:22.040 --> 00:22:23.480 Let's see if I can find my mouse again. 00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:27.120 Wasn't the original Prince of Persia a little like this as well? 00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:28.100 Very original. 00:22:28.480 --> 00:22:28.680 Yeah. 00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:29.260 These are good. 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:29.820 Yeah. 00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:31.720 They got some nice, 00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:33.220 interesting examples. 00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:39.900 And then there's a whole like gallery of examples on the site for pixel as well. 00:22:40.420 --> 00:22:43.880 If you come down here and you can see these a bunch of examples that run. 00:22:44.340 --> 00:22:45.160 They're cross-platform, 00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:45.520 obviously. 00:22:45.710 --> 00:22:46.620 They run Windows, 00:22:46.820 --> 00:22:47.240 Mac, Linux, 00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:47.500 Web. 00:22:47.590 --> 00:22:48.100 They don't care. 00:22:48.360 --> 00:22:48.860 They run everywhere. 00:22:49.560 --> 00:22:50.020 It's great for, 00:22:50.230 --> 00:22:52.720 like, if you want to teach people how to code and program, 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:53.520 some of the 00:22:53.620 --> 00:22:58.100 most popular sessions we've ever done in our IndyPy user group have always been like the 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:02.920 arcade library or the PyGaming libraries, 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:05.680 because people can relate to and know that 00:23:05.770 --> 00:23:09.560 if they can build games like this, they can learn how to program and do really, really 00:23:09.590 --> 00:23:09.960 cool stuff. 00:23:10.660 --> 00:23:13.120 It's a fun low barrier way into game development. 00:23:13.300 --> 00:23:13.740 Good for beginners, 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.700 good for teaching kids again, because it all runs in one spot. 00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:19.760 You're not having them install a bazillion different things. 00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:21.360 Actually, I think if we go. 00:23:21.820 --> 00:23:22.260 Yeah, here we go. 00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:23.680 I've got the examples over here. 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:25.320 You just run like that. 00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:27.020 That's the same platformer. 00:23:27.320 --> 00:23:31.880 And it launched a rich looking app right on my desktop. 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.500 Yeah, 00:23:32.780 --> 00:23:33.060 that's awesome. 00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:33.900 Let's see if I can get right. 00:23:33.980 --> 00:23:34.240 I can't. 00:23:34.780 --> 00:23:35.440 Oh, there we go. 00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:36.080 I'll get a little further. 00:23:36.460 --> 00:23:37.660 Oh, you know what reminds me of? 00:23:37.800 --> 00:23:39.560 I was going to say Flappy Bird, but that's not what it is. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:40.800 It reminds me of Joust, 00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:41.780 but bird form. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.660 But you can even come in here and run like the hello world. 00:23:45.180 --> 00:23:45.400 Oops, 00:23:45.700 --> 00:23:46.200 not 1.py. 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:48.160 Let's say there's like the 01, 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:49.240 obviously. 00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:52.260 And then this one's just like the hello world of pixel. 00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:52.620 Hello, 00:23:52.840 --> 00:23:52.940 pixel. 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.760 And there's a link tag. 00:23:55.340 --> 00:23:55.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:23:56.060 --> 00:23:58.680 And so if we just bat the 01 hello, 00:23:59.140 --> 00:24:01.620 you can see here 20 lines of Python code 00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:04.020 that run on the Rust engine using pixel. 00:24:04.360 --> 00:24:04.520 Yeah. 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.620 So super fun, 00:24:05.980 --> 00:24:07.460 very easy way to get started 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:09.920 and go run some cool Python code. 00:24:10.120 --> 00:24:10.520 I love it. 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:10.900 Yeah. 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:11.980 Very fun. 00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:12.700 It was very fun. 00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:15.080 I don't know if you've got any extras, Michael, 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:16.340 you wanted to cover real quick? 00:24:16.540 --> 00:24:17.440 I got a couple, 00:24:17.860 --> 00:24:17.980 actually. 00:24:18.260 --> 00:24:19.380 Let's jump in here. 00:24:19.580 --> 00:24:20.700 So where do we want to go? 00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:21.620 These are both pretty small. 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:23.140 So first of all, 00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:25.400 we're back from Stefan on Tiny Mongo. 00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:27.180 This Mongo one's got a lot of legs. 00:24:27.560 --> 00:24:28.160 It's got legs. 00:24:28.540 --> 00:24:28.640 Well, 00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:31.540 because we worked for weeks 00:24:31.780 --> 00:24:34.440 on getting this thing almost performance compatible 00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:37.440 and API compatible with MongoDB 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:43.740 a sequel light rapper it was incredible so we talked about it on the podcast last week and he's 00:24:43.780 --> 00:24:48.020 like i loved it so much i gave you guys a little bit of shout out so here check this two things one 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:53.820 nice little shout out to watch you and me debate it from or to discuss it last time but also this 00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:58.440 this click here to like give you something help me use tiny mongo here's the thing that it had it on 00:24:58.760 --> 00:25:04.879 right you just copy this give it to your ai coding agent this gets started by copying a prompt 00:25:04.940 --> 00:25:09.100 give it to your AI coding agent and let them get you going using tiny mongos. 00:25:09.250 --> 00:25:09.520 Pretty sweet. 00:25:09.840 --> 00:25:12.960 I like the way to bootstrap people into success. 00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:13.900 Yes, 00:25:14.070 --> 00:25:14.400 I do too. 00:25:14.690 --> 00:25:17.020 Because otherwise you're kind of stuck with the blank sheet of paper syndrome, 00:25:17.540 --> 00:25:19.140 like where you're just like, oh, it's a big blank sheet. 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:19.680 I don't know what to do. 00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:20.380 Here you go. 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:21.000 Get started. 00:25:21.300 --> 00:25:21.520 Exactly. 00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:22.460 You get to go. 00:25:22.800 --> 00:25:22.880 Yeah, 00:25:23.230 --> 00:25:23.700 you get to go. 00:25:24.080 --> 00:25:27.460 Then the other one is I've become kind of fascinated with Lightstream. 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:29.060 Are you familiar with Lightstream? 00:25:29.580 --> 00:25:29.940 Lightstream. 00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:31.880 I don't know if I've ever used Lightstream. 00:25:31.970 --> 00:25:32.080 No. 00:25:32.380 --> 00:25:33.400 So it's super interesting. 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:37.040 There's this video that I'm going to link to called Lightstream plus SQLite. 00:25:37.220 --> 00:25:39.980 Scale to a million users without Postgres or CloudBills. 00:25:40.320 --> 00:25:41.400 And this video, 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:42.620 this guy puts this together. 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:46.160 Let me see if I can get it to skip ahead. 00:25:46.560 --> 00:25:51.640 But there's really cool animated sort of architectural tech talks, 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:52.420 usually like 10 minutes. 00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:53.860 This guy's called Claude Codes. 00:25:55.100 --> 00:25:58.080 Now, it's AI text-to-speech generated. 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.080 I don't know that it's AI generated, 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:00.680 but it is. 00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:02.440 I think a person's behind it, 00:26:02.540 --> 00:26:04.100 but I think it's spoken by an AI. 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:05.520 So it says Litstream, 00:26:05.710 --> 00:26:07.520 even though it's not pronounced that way, 00:26:08.430 --> 00:26:08.840 I don't believe. 00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:10.700 That said, I'm recommending it anyway 00:26:10.770 --> 00:26:12.500 because it's so good. 00:26:12.740 --> 00:26:13.800 This is such an interesting topic. 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.580 So Lightstream is a thing 00:26:16.950 --> 00:26:18.400 that you can put next to any app 00:26:18.430 --> 00:26:19.500 that runs on SQLite. 00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:22.360 If you turn on the write-ahead log wall mode, 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.300 which is the durability mode of SQLite anyway, 00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:26.540 if you turn that on 00:26:26.870 --> 00:26:28.100 and you run Lightstream next to it, 00:26:28.110 --> 00:26:29.580 it will take the write-ahead log 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:31.420 and it will stream it to somewhere 00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:34.660 like S3 or anywhere else. 00:26:35.090 --> 00:26:39.120 And the way it works is it will eventually compact those. 00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:40.980 So instead of just having a bunch of write logs, 00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:41.660 it'll say, okay, 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:42.340 it's been, 00:26:42.650 --> 00:26:43.720 I don't know, an hour. 00:26:43.850 --> 00:26:44.740 So I'm going to take all of those 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:46.860 and like merge them into a SQLite file 00:26:47.210 --> 00:26:48.200 and then some more and some more. 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:51.960 So you get within a few seconds of my SQLite file 00:26:52.120 --> 00:26:53.560 is now backed up somewhere else. 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:55.400 And if for whatever reason it fails, 00:26:55.900 --> 00:26:57.600 you know, I could just restore it in reverse, 00:26:58.060 --> 00:26:58.940 which is pretty interesting. 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:00.040 That's really cool. 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:00.620 Yeah. 00:27:00.810 --> 00:27:03.180 So they talk about some other projects like, 00:27:03.840 --> 00:27:07.400 Expensify does something like 4 million rights a second on SQL light or 00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:09.340 something like an incredible thing they set up. 00:27:09.510 --> 00:27:10.300 So why do I bring this up? 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:11.440 What does this have to do with an extra? 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:12.320 Why is it not a topic? 00:27:12.820 --> 00:27:16.100 I'm trying to do an episode with somebody from light stream. 00:27:16.390 --> 00:27:17.300 I reached out to the creator, 00:27:17.540 --> 00:27:17.640 Ben, 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:18.440 who has, 00:27:19.010 --> 00:27:19.100 um, 00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:21.100 just completely ghosted me. 00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:22.960 I sent him like three or four different channels of messages, 00:27:23.280 --> 00:27:23.720 not interested. 00:27:24.120 --> 00:27:25.240 This is a plea for help. 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.540 So my, it is a plea to like, Hey, 00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:33.940 If someone out there is doing cool stuff with Lightstream and SQLite embedded data and wants 00:27:33.940 --> 00:27:35.500 to come on Talk Python and talk about it, 00:27:35.840 --> 00:27:38.100 shoot me a message and maybe we'll make that happen. 00:27:38.370 --> 00:27:40.580 My traditional channels have run dry. 00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:41.460 All right. 00:27:41.550 --> 00:27:42.700 You heard the man. 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:44.260 It's a plea. 00:27:44.620 --> 00:27:45.760 If you'd like to do that, 00:27:46.080 --> 00:27:46.520 come on down. 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:48.400 I got a couple quick extras. 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.480 One of them I didn't make a segment as part of my Python language bits, 00:27:51.630 --> 00:27:52.520 which was there's 00:27:52.520 --> 00:27:55.620 a new namespace potentially coming to Python called Sys. 00:27:56.060 --> 00:28:03.800 So if you have ever made a file in your directory that conflicted with the name of a standard library module, 00:28:04.040 --> 00:28:05.480 you may have experienced this bug. 00:28:05.690 --> 00:28:08.500 So you can see here that if you cat the game.py, 00:28:08.660 --> 00:28:09.840 it imports random. 00:28:10.290 --> 00:28:14.860 And then it uses random.randint to pick an integer between 1 and 10 here. 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:15.960 And if you run the game, 00:28:16.360 --> 00:28:18.860 you'll see module random has no attribute randint. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:19.640 How is that possible? 00:28:20.100 --> 00:28:26.120 It's because you've got a module in your syspath someplace that is shadowing it. 00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:27.040 So instead, 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:28.020 correction, 00:28:28.210 --> 00:28:30.120 I wasn't talking about a sys namespace. 00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:32.460 This is now the standard namespace, 00:28:32.830 --> 00:28:33.440 which could be, 00:28:34.090 --> 00:28:34.580 for example, 00:28:34.760 --> 00:28:36.740 import std.json. 00:28:37.010 --> 00:28:43.820 And now you are certainly very explicitly using the JSON library that comes with Python explicitly. 00:28:44.150 --> 00:28:45.220 So this was discussed, 00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:49.360 seemed to be met with lots of enthusiasm and people who are very excited. 00:28:49.520 --> 00:28:51.200 I'll go just scrolling down here to the very end, 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.240 that it was many attendees loved the idea. 00:28:56.620 --> 00:28:58.460 No one attending hated the idea. 00:28:58.570 --> 00:29:01.560 So I'll call that a, that was a resounding success for this one. 00:29:02.020 --> 00:29:02.480 We'll see the, 00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:05.900 there'll be a PEP probably coming soon to get this included. 00:29:06.360 --> 00:29:07.520 So I don't expect this soon, 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:08.920 but I think this is on the horizon. 00:29:09.560 --> 00:29:11.460 Lots of other languages have this. 00:29:11.470 --> 00:29:12.380 I think they mentioned in here. 00:29:12.620 --> 00:29:13.180 So we've got Rust, 00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:13.720 Java, 00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:14.100 Go, 00:29:14.540 --> 00:29:14.600 Node, 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:18.900 all have something similar to make this explicit and safe. 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:21.960 So Python was the holdout on this, 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:24.620 which is kind of funny given our love of explicitness 00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:27.960 that we would not have this level of care there. 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:32.320 There should be one and preferably only one way to do a thing unless there's six ways to 00:29:32.320 --> 00:29:32.700 do a thing. 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:33.020 Correct. 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:35.080 The last extra, 00:29:36.080 --> 00:29:37.380 be careful out there, 00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.700 folks. 00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:42.300 If you have a refrigerator that is smart and you need to upgrade it or update the firmware, 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:48.519 some Samsung owners have reported that the firmware update bricked not only their Samsung 00:29:48.520 --> 00:29:51.440 smart part of the fridge, but the refrigerator itself. 00:29:52.170 --> 00:29:54.440 They had spoiled food after firmware 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:59.560 updates bricked their Samsung smart refrigerators. This appeared to only have happened in Korea. 00:30:00.350 --> 00:30:03.740 So this seems to be kind of limited to an early release. 00:30:04.300 --> 00:30:06.900 Samsung did respond to Ars Technica on 00:30:06.910 --> 00:30:11.940 this article saying that they had a response in their user complaints forum. 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:12.960 This is just a 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:13.260 translation, 00:30:13.810 --> 00:30:16.940 but they're doing their best to ensure that customers do not suffer any losses 00:30:17.300 --> 00:30:19.360 during this specific holiday period in Korea. 00:30:19.620 --> 00:30:20.900 So be careful out there, folks. 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:23.100 Your refrigerator could get bricked. 00:30:23.500 --> 00:30:26.460 And I'm just shocked that this did not have a fail safe 00:30:26.560 --> 00:30:28.780 to go back to being just a standard refrigerator 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.580 after the smartness wore off. 00:30:30.840 --> 00:30:33.960 It seems like a natural state to fail into. 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:35.320 You know, kind of like an escalator. 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:36.520 When an escalator is broken, 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.580 it's just stairs. 00:30:38.020 --> 00:30:38.940 You know, it still works. 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:43.180 Instead of being the ride where you free fall for three stories. 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:43.940 Right. 00:30:44.360 --> 00:30:44.840 That's crazy. 00:30:45.940 --> 00:30:46.060 Yeah, 00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:46.720 so be careful. 00:30:47.540 --> 00:30:52.180 yeah yeah all right michael if you have do you have a joke for us this week i do have a joke 00:30:52.560 --> 00:31:00.540 all right let's i'm always down for jokes so this one comes to us from uh will vincent he doesn't 00:31:00.540 --> 00:31:04.620 he didn't send it in i just found him saying something funny and it's the joke so the title 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:10.780 of the joke makes me think of an lcd sound system song okay you should be thinking perhaps lord of 00:31:10.780 --> 00:31:15.020 the rings lord of the rings something like that okay that's a different direction okay so well 00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:19.340 here we go so will vincent says today i was talking with a colleague about how difficult 00:31:19.610 --> 00:31:24.620 python installation and packaging was before uv and there's whatever the elf from lord of the 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:30.220 rings like forgot the name character name but i was there gandalf i was there 3 000 years ago 00:31:30.570 --> 00:31:36.940 we didn't even have pip we called it the cheese shop eventually it was brutal i was there gandalf 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:42.820 how appropriate that they would pick 3 000 years given that python always guido always referred to 00:31:42.840 --> 00:31:45.300 Python 3 as Python 3K in the early days. 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:50.360 A lot of intersections going on here for that joke. 00:31:50.780 --> 00:31:50.860 Yeah, 00:31:51.070 --> 00:31:51.400 pretty funny, 00:31:51.580 --> 00:31:51.660 right? 00:31:52.040 --> 00:31:53.580 But I was there back in the day. 00:31:53.870 --> 00:31:55.260 It is related to the song a little bit. 00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:55.740 Okay. 00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:56.500 I don't know the song. 00:31:56.980 --> 00:31:58.000 I'm going to have to be educated later. 00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:00.600 I'll put a show note to it, maybe. 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:01.080 Sweet. 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:01.620 Nice. 00:32:02.030 --> 00:32:02.120 Well, 00:32:02.540 --> 00:32:05.320 thanks, Michael, for joining me for this week's episode. 00:32:05.690 --> 00:32:07.880 And hopefully we'll connect again next week. 00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:10.740 I would like to actually add something for people listening really quick. 00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:11.480 Because next week, 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:12.740 what episode is it? 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:18.260 500 it's special we're going to do a little bit something special for next week we're going to have 00:32:18.780 --> 00:32:25.860 brian auken is going to be back on the show as a guest first time ever actually and we're going to 00:32:25.900 --> 00:32:30.440 have some other folks also join in on the show and kind of just do a little bit of an extended 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.840 version a little bit special with some other folks so try to come and be a part of it if you 00:32:34.940 --> 00:32:39.760 really care and want to yeah it's not going to be at a normal time but if you look on youtube for 00:32:39.780 --> 00:32:41.380 the upcoming version live stream. 00:32:41.540 --> 00:32:42.500 It is at the time. 00:32:42.700 --> 00:32:45.340 So I believe that's noon Pacific on Tuesday, 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.060 the 13th. 00:32:46.260 --> 00:32:46.320 Yeah. 00:32:46.600 --> 00:32:48.300 Join live. You won't miss the special guests. 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.220 Exactly. 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:49.740 Exactly. 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:50.600 All right. Well, 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.900 we will be there as always. 00:32:52.360 --> 00:32:52.660 Sounds good. 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:53.340 See you then.